Tre Johnson: welcome to the DMV

[9 and 20]

Why are so many of you taking this kid apart?
It's just the identical opposite from a bunch of people predicting greatness from him before he'd ever played an NBA minute!

No one has the slightest idea how this young man will fare in the league.

Probably because we got completely hosed out of 1 of Flagg, Harper, Edgecome or Bailey, and with Flagg, Harper and Bailey (not aware of what's happening with Edgecombe) all killing it, any hint that the miracle rise to potentially 3rd on some boards of Tre down the stretch being a fools errand of post-college season nonsense hype b.s. is freaking people out. Could it just be yet another example of someone who was clearly 2 tiers below the top guys (the big 3+1), being hyped up with offseason workouts, rather than actual in game data, and so its all illusory horse ----?

That's what's happening.

People want the good news breadcrumbs that comes in off-season, and with summer league and preseason performance, the long slog of waiting for huge sample sizes of data is something few can bare to stomach knowing we already got totally ----ed in the only lottery that really mattered for us the past decade AN ABSOLUTE TON. This is rampant anxiety basically, and because some of it is based on logic and reason, it's more sticky than the sort of anxiety my mother bothered me with for hours today lol.

For me, I'm gonna panic if he clearly is just what I feared in terms of overall impact (again, not a player comp, just an impact comp), which was Cal Cheney of 32 years ago, but I'm gonna give Tre a lot of rope until I panic. It would just be so so so much more comfortable if he gave us the sort of stuff the big 4 of this class are clearly giving, which is they are what the scouts thought they were: STUDS. It would be nice if Tre just rained 3 pointers and jumpers in the face of everyone left and right all day, but we will have to wait I guess. I'm not gonna panic until at least 50 games, and even then I'll have some hope unless it goes the way of Johnny Davis lol, which it won't.

Personally I'm just irate. We deserved luck for once, and instead we got prison ---- from the lottery. A franchise tortured for 45 years got yet another kick straight in the nuts last may, and who knows, maybe another kick comes next may. That, for me anyway, is my frustration. Why in the ---- did ----ing San Antonio, who had already landed 3 generational big men in thirty years, have to also freaking land a generational PG prospect? Why did Philly, who got gifted how many --- damned top 3 picks the past decade have to get a top pick too? How did freaking DALLAS, Dallas, have to have a rigged lottery, or the biggest bull---- timed pile of luck land in their laps too? Was it not enough that they won a title and have played for a title 3 times in 20 years? Do we have to suffer for freaking 100 years? WTF?!?!?! Sanguine is a feeling I've literally never had in my entire life as a Wizards fan.

That's part of the reason I'm amazed at you. You're not 50 like me. You should be even less patient with the bull--- lottery flattening that was patently obviously designed to make rich teams richer, and totally screw over franchises like ours, suffering FOREVER. But you're patience. I need what you're drinking, PLEASE .

oh you HAD TO BRING UP CAL CHEANEY

uuuuuuuuugh

Yeah I had just about gotten over the lottery results but this fired up my Adam Silver hate again. Cooper Flagg to Dallas and Harper to San Antonio? Seriously? Once they do the lottery, they need to do a New York Times frontpage test to see if they should redo the lottery or not. We "missed out on Wemby by one ping pong ball" was BS but it passed the front page test - the Wizards were never going to get that dude. But Dallas landing Flagg after trading Doncic to the Lakers and fan reaction afterwards, especially targetted at the Dallas GM, is the script of a bad Hollywood movie.

[AFM]

In the first week or two Tre is gonna have a game where he hits like 5 3s and everyone is going to magically stop fretting

He only hit 4 last night, but this is more or less what happened. Not to toot my own horn.

[tontoz]

One thing Tre needs to learn is to get rid of the ball quickly when he gets doubled. he isn't dynamic enough to beat double teams against NBA players. Trying to split a double isn't in his wheelhouse.

[closg00]

In the first week or two Tre is gonna have a game where he hits like 5 3s and everyone is going to magically stop fretting

He only hit 4 last night, but this is more or less what happened. Not to toot my own horn.

Dude, people were commenting on a couple of preseason games, and what happened during those games. I think there was one person who didn’t like him, you’re exaggerating a bit about the hate.

[WallToWall]

Bucks pretty much let him shoot. Defenses will get tougher for him as the season goes. Still, this first game was a good game for him. He needs to work on his D. A lot! Help D and transition D. Hopefully, that will come in time. Recognition of what to do on D and acting on it is not yet in his bag. Given how much he works on his game, I have little doubt that it will be.

[AFM]

In the first week or two Tre is gonna have a game where he hits like 5 3s and everyone is going to magically stop fretting

He only hit 4 last night, but this is more or less what happened. Not to toot my own horn.

Dude, people were commenting on a couple of preseason games, and what happened during those games. I think there was one person who didn’t like him, you’re exaggerating a bit about the hate.

I'm just saying things like "he doesn't pass the eye test" etc fall apart pretty quickly once the ball goes in the basket

[tontoz]

Bucks pretty much let him shoot. Defenses will get tougher for him as the season goes. Still, this first game was a good game for him. He needs to work on his D. A lot! Help D and transition D. Hopefully, that will come in time. Recognition of what to do on D and acting on it is not yet in his bag. Given how much he works on his game, I have little doubt that it will be.

He has bad habits from college. His effort on D and on the boards really wasn't there. It might take awhile for him to get past that. Coaching and peer pressure from his teammates should take care of it in time.

I thought he did ok on man D which typically wasn't the case in college.

[The Consiglieri]

In the first week or two Tre is gonna have a game where he hits like 5 3s and everyone is going to magically stop fretting

He only hit 4 last night, but this is more or less what happened. Not to toot my own horn.

As I mentioned in my post, I viewed the Tre concern more about other players performing to ceiling expectations, and Tre not looking like a superstar once or twice in comparison, rather than Tre being a bust or mediocre. It's anxiety produced by knowing we absolutely should have 1 of Harper, Bailey or Edge, and we don't, and the only guy not getting pub is Tre (even on Bill's dumb--- podcast last week, he broke down in detail every single dude drafted in like the top 8 in detail, the one guy that all of 1 line was said about? "Tre", just an aside about House being excited).

This is more about anxiety and 45 years of misery, than anything Tre is or is not doing.

I expect Tre to be at worst, an above average starter when you consider his offensive gifts. My fear is that he's nothing more than a point collector, and we've seen oodles of guys over the years that can get buckets, and add literally nothing else, and they are if not a dime a dozen, cheap to acquire in trades, and never terribly well valued. If Tre can become solid on D, add interior skills, then he becomes a transformative tool, that's the hope. The anxiety is he is just a scorer, and for some this fall, maybe not even that (but even a mega negative nancy like me, isn't afraid of that: I know he's gonna get his, he's simply too skilled a shooter).

Anyway, yeah, this is all anxiety. Honestly, to a lesser degree that's true of Bub too, he may be no more than a 6th man, or a backup, but for now, he's very young and only figuring out his body now.

All these guys are basically dice rolls, and exiting ones where we can't see what we rolled yet, but the ceiling even on George, is rather high.

With Tre, enough sample size is at worst, gonna reveal a 3 point machine and bucket getter. He's gonna be fine. I just wanted a lot more than fine in May. I was not (and most of our fan base was not) assuming we'd get Flagg, we all knew the odds of Flagg were essentially a touch less than rolling a specific number on a dice if memory serves, but what we expected and deserved was a top 4 pick, and at worst top 5, and do recall, when athletic broke down what we could roll on draft day lol, they plugged in just how bad the 5 slot and 6 slot were compared to landing 1-4, and so of course, we landed 6. Hopefully in the fullness of time, one of the big 4 busts, and Tre comes out as a top 5 guy in the class, I could see it, but man it's gonna take until at least May to come to terms with the hose job.

[The Consiglieri]

In the first week or two Tre is gonna have a game where he hits like 5 3s and everyone is going to magically stop fretting

He only hit 4 last night, but this is more or less what happened. Not to toot my own horn.

Dude, people were commenting on a couple of preseason games, and what happened during those games. I think there was one person who didn’t like him, you’re exaggerating a bit about the hate.

It wasn't even hate, it was anxiety. We know we didn't get who we should have (Flagg, Harper, Edge or Bailey) and we're scared we got yet another 11th or 12th best guy in a draft, who moves the needle not at all. That's not what happened, but enough tiny sample size data can cause a ramp up in anxiety and debbie downer syndrome and that's what was going on.

We're seeing Bub turned into hot garbage in analysis because the better Deni looks, the more Bub automatically gets downgraded if the latest information from a game isn't superlative (and I don't believe Bub is gonna be as good as Deni when I say that, I'm just saying his grade from fans goes further down than it should be simply from the frustrating comp with Den's continued growth).

[The Consiglieri]

Bucks pretty much let him shoot. Defenses will get tougher for him as the season goes. Still, this first game was a good game for him. He needs to work on his D. A lot! Help D and transition D. Hopefully, that will come in time. Recognition of what to do on D and acting on it is not yet in his bag. Given how much he works on his game, I have little doubt that it will be.

You need to look at games in 10-15 games sets of data, otherwise we get panic like "Sarr is a mega bust" based on his horrific run from October to a tad before Thanksgiving last year. Sometimes the panic is right (Davis), most of the time you just need to keep collecting sample size in terms of production, traits, and strengths and weaknesses. We always forget, these are basically 13th graders, in terms of what's in that skull of theirs, and so inconsistency, and some moments of WTF?!?! are going to happen, which is why we need a ton more data to get a picture of who they are. Then add what they do in the offseason to see if there's growth in area's of their game they worked on after the season wraps and they have a chunk of the following 5 months off.

He may need help or to work on a lot of these area's but give the dude some games, and some rest (all star break) and see what comes from his learning. He eats, drinks, and sleeps the sport, so the more exposure to what he needs to work on and accentuate, the more we'll see who he is and could be.

[The Consiglieri]

Bucks pretty much let him shoot. Defenses will get tougher for him as the season goes. Still, this first game was a good game for him. He needs to work on his D. A lot! Help D and transition D. Hopefully, that will come in time. Recognition of what to do on D and acting on it is not yet in his bag. Given how much he works on his game, I have little doubt that it will be.

He has bad habits from college. His effort on D and on the boards really wasn't there. It might take awhile for him to get past that. Coaching and peer pressure from his teammates should take care of it in time.

I thought he did ok on man D which typically wasn't the case in college.

I imagine some of this is also just learning how and what to do/execute in given scenarios. He's a kiddo, it's gonna take time and reps for stuff to come second nature to him, and yeah, some of it is probably bad habits too. But 19, and literally 0 games of NBA experience can lead to lots and lots of mistakes in execution that have nothing to do with effort or want to, as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't think anyone is writing Tre off completely, only that he doesn't look very good out there right now. He looked good against summer league scrubs and not so much in preseason, against a mix of NBA starters and backups. Not that controversial, imo. He seems like a hard worker, is very young, and was good in college so chances are he gets better at the season goes on - hopefully that happens.

Early observation qualification (relax board minders)

Tres is out there kind of floundering around operating within an offense that never gets off the ground, he is putting-in good effort, but like Bub, he doesn't have the juke-moves/quickness/strength YET to beat NBA defenders, he is taking some tough shots, but also missing good looks. The team needs a point guard and offense that will benefit Tre and Bub's strengths, we need a Point Guard and new coach, otherwise this group will never reach its potential. My two cents.

Tre isn’t passing my eye test, but Tre is a smidge shorter and lighter than SGA. In his rookie year, SGA averaged just under 11 points a game. I’m a Bullets/Wiz fan for almost 50 years so am, naturally, an undying optimist. Let’s see how his rookie year goes. Tre is a hard worker.

If not, let’s get balco on the phone and get him on some Hulk Hogan vitamins.

Whatever I said, I didn't intend to sound like I am writing off Johnson. I am sure the Wizards drafted a hard worker. He is very young. He will improve. I even said I hope Tre can become RIp Hamilton with more range.

Rip wasn't great for the Wizards, but for the Pistons, he played alongside Billups and Prince. Hamilton became a deadly three-point threat. Tre already has more range when open than rookie Rip. He just doesn't have a PG like Chauncey Billups. No knock on Bub, but I caught yesterday's highlights of Jeremiah (or Isaiah) Fears. He plays like Zeke, Isiah Thomaa. He's better than Carrington. He would complement Johnson better. It is what it is. Their superstar PG of the future might be in this draft.

NWR, you've been a Bullets/Wizards fan for almost 50 years? You don't look a day over 49. Okay, not a day over 55. PM for our next sit down. If you're comfortable, bring your date. Just don't let your spouse find out if you do. I have no one, but it might be a goal for me to invite someone very special who I recently met.

Basketball.

Tre Johnson scored in double figures. That's going to be easy for him in this league.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Tre is going to be just fine. I'm actually liking his on ball defense so far this preseason. His off ball defense is a mess, but that's expected with young players. Offensively, he just needs to get stronger. He has toothpicks for arms right now and he's not effective enough at creating space when defenders crowd him. He also looks a bit rushed as he adjusts to the speed of the NBA. That's also very common. Let's see how he looks after he has 20 games under his belt. I think those 3's and floaters will start to drop.

Once again, Nate’s cool logic pulls me back from the ledge.

I am not worried about his jumper at all, from anywhere. He has a quick, high release and routinely makes contested jumpers. He attempted 7 3s a game in college against defenses that were game planning to prevent them and still shot 40%.

I just think he needs to change his approach trying to finish inside. Instead of going up quickly I would like to see him keep his pivot foot down and be patient. Force the defender to commit before going up.

Johnson is probably overcompensating to address what others have called weakness. Finishing strong isn't his game. He needs to just let the game come to him and flow. Tontoz suggested what Tre needs, and that is to be patient.

I wonder if Tre has studied Mamba moves or the pivot and release MJ had that made their jumpers virtually unstoppable?

[AFM]

Tre is going to be just fine. I'm actually liking his on ball defense so far this preseason. His off ball defense is a mess, but that's expected with young players. Offensively, he just needs to get stronger. He has toothpicks for arms right now and he's not effective enough at creating space when defenders crowd him. He also looks a bit rushed as he adjusts to the speed of the NBA. That's also very common. Let's see how he looks after he has 20 games under his belt. I think those 3's and floaters will start to drop.

Once again, Nate’s cool logic pulls me back from the ledge.

I am not worried about his jumper at all, from anywhere. He has a quick, high release and routinely makes contested jumpers. He attempted 7 3s a game in college against defenses that were game planning to prevent them and still shot 40%.

I just think he needs to change his approach trying to finish inside. Instead of going up quickly I would like to see him keep his pivot foot down and be patient. Force the defender to commit before going up.

Johnson is probably overcompensating to address what others have called weakness. Finishing strong isn't his game. He needs to just let the game come to him and flow. Tontoz suggested what Tre needs, and that is to be patient.

I wonder if Tre has studied Mamba moves or the pivot and release MJ had that made their jumpers virtually unstoppable?

He has a decent back to the basket game already. Look at the move at 2:15

Watch on YouTube

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why are so many of you taking this kid apart?
It's just the identical opposite from a bunch of people predicting greatness from him before he'd ever played an NBA minute!

No one has the slightest idea how this young man will fare in the league.

Probably because we got completely hosed out of 1 of Flagg, Harper, Edgecome or Bailey, and with Flagg, Harper and Bailey (not aware of what's happening with Edgecombe) all killing it, any hint that the miracle rise to potentially 3rd on some boards of Tre down the stretch being a fools errand of post-college season nonsense hype b.s. is freaking people out. Could it just be yet another example of someone who was clearly 2 tiers below the top guys (the big 3+1), being hyped up with offseason workouts, rather than actual in game data, and so its all illusory horse ----?

That's what's happening.

People want the good news breadcrumbs that comes in off-season, and with summer league and preseason performance, the long slog of waiting for huge sample sizes of data is something few can bare to stomach knowing we already got totally ----ed in the only lottery that really mattered for us the past decade AN ABSOLUTE TON. This is rampant anxiety basically, and because some of it is based on logic and reason, it's more sticky than the sort of anxiety my mother bothered me with for hours today lol.

For me, I'm gonna panic if he clearly is just what I feared in terms of overall impact (again, not a player comp, just an impact comp), which was Cal Cheney of 32 years ago, but I'm gonna give Tre a lot of rope until I panic. It would just be so so so much more comfortable if he gave us the sort of stuff the big 4 of this class are clearly giving, which is they are what the scouts thought they were: STUDS. It would be nice if Tre just rained 3 pointers and jumpers in the face of everyone left and right all day, but we will have to wait I guess. I'm not gonna panic until at least 50 games, and even then I'll have some hope unless it goes the way of Johnny Davis lol, which it won't.

Personally I'm just irate. We deserved luck for once, and instead we got prison ---- from the lottery. A franchise tortured for 45 years got yet another kick straight in the nuts last may, and who knows, maybe another kick comes next may. That, for me anyway, is my frustration. Why in the ---- did ----ing San Antonio, who had already landed 3 generational big men in thirty years, have to also freaking land a generational PG prospect? Why did Philly, who got gifted how many --- damned top 3 picks the past decade have to get a top pick too? How did freaking DALLAS, Dallas, have to have a rigged lottery, or the biggest bull---- timed pile of luck land in their laps too? Was it not enough that they won a title and have played for a title 3 times in 20 years? Do we have to suffer for freaking 100 years? WTF?!?!?! Sanguine is a feeling I've literally never had in my entire life as a Wizards fan.

That's part of the reason I'm amazed at you. You're not 50 like me. You should be even less patient with the bull--- lottery flattening that was patently obviously designed to make rich teams richer, and totally screw over franchises like ours, suffering FOREVER. But you're patience. I need what you're drinking, PLEASE .

Not only was Dallas rewarded, but San Antonio got a monster in Dylan Harper. Their pick and roll between Harpee and Wemby is sick. To magnify how lucky the Wizards aren't the Spurs also have last year's ROTY, Stephon Castle. He makes winning plays. He was a champion at U Conn. He will be in the NBA.

Look at the ineptitude of the Wizards. Johnny Davis, anyone? Kispert?

The draft gods have bequethed Victor Wembegyana, Stephon Castle, and Dylan Harper. It does not seem fair.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

First: Tre didn't just kill it in offseason workouts, he was a genuine college standout as a freshman. Probably more so than Harper or Bailey though they were higher rated in high school. They are the ones that showed more in measurements, and skill workouts and were drafted higher because of it.

Second: No signs that Harper is a generation point guard prospect that I've seen. Good prospect, good size, good downhill ability, we will see whether he develops the court vision or 3 point ability of a top level point guard but he hasn't proven those things yet. I think he's getting a bit overhyped.

True about Harper.

However, Harper is Wemby's PG. That alone might get him Stockton and Billups level HOF greatness.

[tontoz]

Not only was Dallas rewarded, but San Antonio got a monster in Dylan Harper. Their pick and roll between Harpee and Wemby is sick. To magnify how lucky the Wizards aren't the Spurs also have last year's ROTY, Stephon Castle. He makes winning plays. He was a champion at U Conn. He will be in the NBA.

Look at the ineptitude of the Wizards. Johnny Davis, anyone? Kispert?

The draft gods have bequethed Victor Wembegyana, Stephon Castle, and Dylan Harper. It does not seem fair.

The Spurs shot themselves in the foot signing Fox to a max deal. He doesn't fit there at all and i really think that deal with come back to bite them.

Castle doesn't fit well with Harper either. Harper is far more skilled with the ball and Castle isn't great off the ball. I think they are going to have to rework their roster a lot to become contenders.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why are so many of you taking this kid apart?
It's just the identical opposite from a bunch of people predicting greatness from him before he'd ever played an NBA minute!

No one has the slightest idea how this young man will fare in the league.

Probably because we got completely hosed out of 1 of Flagg, Harper, Edgecome or Bailey, and with Flagg, Harper and Bailey (not aware of what's happening with Edgecombe) all killing it, any hint that the miracle rise to potentially 3rd on some boards of Tre down the stretch being a fools errand of post-college season nonsense hype b.s. is freaking people out. Could it just be yet another example of someone who was clearly 2 tiers below the top guys (the big 3+1), being hyped up with offseason workouts, rather than actual in game data, and so its all illusory horse ----?

That's what's happening.

People want the good news breadcrumbs that comes in off-season, and with summer league and preseason performance, the long slog of waiting for huge sample sizes of data is something few can bare to stomach knowing we already got totally ----ed in the only lottery that really mattered for us the past decade AN ABSOLUTE TON. This is rampant anxiety basically, and because some of it is based on logic and reason, it's more sticky than the sort of anxiety my mother bothered me with for hours today lol.

For me, I'm gonna panic if he clearly is just what I feared in terms of overall impact (again, not a player comp, just an impact comp), which was Cal Cheney of 32 years ago, but I'm gonna give Tre a lot of rope until I panic. It would just be so so so much more comfortable if he gave us the sort of stuff the big 4 of this class are clearly giving, which is they are what the scouts thought they were: STUDS. It would be nice if Tre just rained 3 pointers and jumpers in the face of everyone left and right all day, but we will have to wait I guess. I'm not gonna panic until at least 50 games, and even then I'll have some hope unless it goes the way of Johnny Davis lol, which it won't.

Personally I'm just irate. We deserved luck for once, and instead we got prison ---- from the lottery. A franchise tortured for 45 years got yet another kick straight in the nuts last may, and who knows, maybe another kick comes next may. That, for me anyway, is my frustration. Why in the ---- did ----ing San Antonio, who had already landed 3 generational big men in thirty years, have to also freaking land a generational PG prospect? Why did Philly, who got gifted how many --- damned top 3 picks the past decade have to get a top pick too? How did freaking DALLAS, Dallas, have to have a rigged lottery, or the biggest bull---- timed pile of luck land in their laps too? Was it not enough that they won a title and have played for a title 3 times in 20 years? Do we have to suffer for freaking 100 years? WTF?!?!?! Sanguine is a feeling I've literally never had in my entire life as a Wizards fan.

That's part of the reason I'm amazed at you. You're not 50 like me. You should be even less patient with the bull--- lottery flattening that was patently obviously designed to make rich teams richer, and totally screw over franchises like ours, suffering FOREVER. But you're patience. I need what you're drinking, PLEASE .

Rebuilding is an inherently dynamic, & therefore interesting, process. & an uncertain one -- lottery or no lottery.

Suppose we'd gotten Amen Thompson in '23 instead of Bilal. Would the rebuild be further along? Yep, it would -- that kid is terrific! But our record in '22-23 (35-47) meant that we had extremely long odds of moving up in the lottery. Can't complain that we didn't get Wemby. Our record would have put us at 6, where Anthony Black was taken; instead, we traded up from 8 to take Bilal at 7.

Would we be further along if we'd stayed at 8 & taken Cason Wallace or Derrick Lively? Meh.... maybe a little?

But Amen went 4th that year. How about if we'd traded up further & taken Brandon Miller (2) or Scoot Henderson (3)...? Not so much....

Obviously, we did ok in the '24 lottery.

So... what this comes down to is the fact that tied for the worst record last year, the lottery screwed us. Not only didn't we get Flagg, but we clearly missed on the other 2 seemingly (i.e. so far) elite prospects (Harper & Ace).

Fair to complain, but it doesn't take us very far, & the data from the previous couple of years clearly looks different.

As to age (& I'm 83 not 80), one thing it teaches you is to find ways to enjoy the present!

Payitforward, you amaze me.

You say you're 83, but your mind is 38. When I grow up (I'm 64), I want to have acuity and retention like you do. I hope to still be like Frank Thomas in the blue pill commercial.

On that note, what do Robert DeNiro, Al Pacino, and Tony Randall each have in common? (Hint: see Wikipedia)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

First: Tre didn't just kill it in offseason workouts, he was a genuine college standout as a freshman. Probably more so than Harper or Bailey though they were higher rated in high school. They are the ones that showed more in measurements, and skill workouts and were drafted higher because of it.

Second: No signs that Harper is a generation point guard prospect that I've seen. Good prospect, good size, good downhill ability, we will see whether he develops the court vision or 3 point ability of a top level point guard but he hasn't proven those things yet. I think he's getting a bit overhyped.

He was also a pretty meh to crap defender in college which is one of two key reasons teams didn't have him in the same tiers as the Flagg, and Harper/VJ/ Bailey tiers), and that would be defense (yes I know he was asked to carry the offensive load, and so took time off under heavy usage on d, and I know he has the measurements to at least be average in time, but there's a fundamental difference between an argument for an elite defender, a good defender, and elite measurables for defense, and "maybe he becomes solid due to his measurables and less heavy usage" take on a players defense and defensive potential) and athleticism.

Tre's got his ticket to success, it's highly unlikely he busts, but the ceiling was always lower than the big 4 because of the athletic and defensive short comings. No doubt the higher floor than Bailey, but definitely not the higher ceiling than any of those 4.

I think you're the first person I've come across that views Harper as good, rather than elite. I'm not saying Harper's a locked in 1.01 for any draft, but he'd be the 1.01 in most solid to good drafts, and he is generally tiered out similarly to guys like Ant, Ja, and the like from their classes, and I think he has a greater upside than Ja if not Ant.

Theathletic did a nice piece on Tre Johnson repeatedly talking to scouts about him, they generally really like him, see high likely outcomes, but like me, they seem skeptical of stardom, view him as the 3rd guy on a legit team, and this draft had 4 guys who had top 2 guy potential (and when I say that, I mean "reasonably likely", obviously there are guys peppered throughout the draft with high ceilings, but far less likely projected outcome that would reach such heights, whereas the big 4 in this class were generally seen as 40%+ and better to spit ball it, whereas as a say, Maluach, could have a through the roof outcome, but it's far less likely).

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6720995/2025/10/16/tre-johnson-what-scouts-are-saying/

Beyond frustrating as a wizards fan/victim to just perenially be screwed in this way. It's possible I'm wrong on his ceiling, I hope so, but I think the rush up the charts you saw with his prospect status from consensus 5th-7th (depending upon how high people had Kon ranked) to as high as 3rd on some boards, like Vecennie, is going to most likely disappear, and he'll settle in amongst the second or third tier of this class beyond the studs (Flagg+er's). Pray I'm wrong, but that is definitely the most likely outcome.

The answer is God doesn't like ugly. Ted Leonsis is experiencing famine. His crops are dying, whatever the Wizards plant withers on the vine. Arenas. Wall. They were slain in His wrath. This franchise being called THE WIZARDS mocked Yaweh.

I'm surprised it hasn't rained frogs inside the Verizon.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Second: No signs that Harper is a generation point guard prospect that I've seen. Good prospect, good size, good downhill ability, we will see whether he develops the court vision or 3 point ability of a top level point guard but he hasn't proven those things yet. I think he's getting a bit overhyped.

I think you're the first person I've come across that views Harper as good, rather than elite. I'm not saying Harper's a locked in 1.01 for any draft, but he'd be the 1.01 in most solid to good drafts, and he is generally tiered out similarly to guys like Ant, Ja, and the like from their classes, and I think he has a greater upside than Ja if not Ant.

Me. I agree with the penbeast assessment. Said so in the run up to the draft. I wanted Ace over him.

I think he’s a high floor player since he was born into the game. His understanding of the game is ahead of most. Handle. Ability to get his shot up in traffic. Split defenses. All high rankings.

But his athleticism isn’t on the Ja Antman tier you cite. He’s not powering over players or blowing past them with footspeed. He’s Cade Cunningham without a 3pt shot. And it’s not like he was shutting down opponents on defense in college either.

Maybe he develops that shot. Maybe he grows his already high tier on ball game to draw fouls on the SGA trajectory. But he’s an on ball player without extended range who doesn’t yet make the players around him better. A big combo guard who needs the ball to be useful. Now he’s lucked into a situation with a god tier talent as a passing target. But I don’t see the synergy between him and Castle. There’s a reason he came off the bench in preseason. Until one of those two adds reliable range you can’t really play them together. Well unless Wemby is hitting 50% from 3 like he can.

I did not like what I saw of Harper at Rutgers. None of that matters. He is in heaven next to Wemby.

As for synergy with Castle, one knows how to win. He's a good defender and a very good rim runner.

The Spurs, if they (Victor) stay healthy, will win 50 games this season.