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Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#321 » by Hoopalotta » Fri Jan 7, 2011 10:55 pm

gesa2 wrote:
Hoopalotta wrote:
gesa2 wrote:How about some sort of Blatche for Tyrus Thomas deal? They only play Thomas 20 minutes a game in Charlotte, they must not like him that much.

Blatche, Yi, Al Thornton to Charlotte
TT and Diop to Washington

Diop is a bad contract, but only through next year. We're saving Charlotte money and giving them Blatche's offensive potential in return for Thomas' athleticism and defense.


Unfortunately, Diop's contract goes through 2013, though it's not a bad idea otherwise.


oops. espn trade machine didn't account for the player option. nevermind!


But they do have other bad contracts that expire earlier which might tip things over - I was considering a similar angle myself.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#322 » by LyricalRico » Fri Jan 7, 2011 11:01 pm

Hoopalotta wrote:So why wouldn't Seraphin get playing time over the course of a four year rookie contract? To me, he's an exceptionally instinctive dirty work player who's shown huge improvements already; from the guy who came in for the Boston and Toronto games early in the season with a comic propensity for mistakes to where he's at now illustrates a very impressive learning curve for a guy who's been playing for six years or whatever. He's still mistake prone, but he naturally comprehends the blue collar aspects of the game and enjoys doing them, so I wouldn't be surprised if he worked his way at least partially into the rotation in a month or two and then had the backup-center slot locked up by next year. It's probably a fluke and almost surely won't last, but he was just the first big off the bench in Philly.

However, there is the other side of it and this is the actual reason why he could eventually be traded: he doesn't project as a starter because of limitations with his measurables/ceiling as an undersized center. He's got a great trunk, nice mobility and long arms, but he probably caps out as a 20-24 minute guy on a good team. So basically, Seraphin isn't anything like a high ceiling/low floor long-term project – he's not far from being a rotation quality player and will almost inevitably earn playing time by at least next year (unless we draft Kanter or something similar), but he might not go far beyond that unless he miraculously acquires forward skills.


Hmmm...I'm suddenly very interested in how Boston fans perceived Kendrick Perkins during his first few years in the league. He was also a slightly undersized center who had a great body but was very raw (came straight from high school) and didn't seem to make an impact at first, even on those historically bad Boston teams. And the year Boston won the title, Perk only averaged 7 & 6 in 24mpg. Seraphin doesn't have to progress very far to be that kind of guy IMO.

Hoopalotta wrote:As a general rule, teams at the start of a rebuild don't/shouldn't stick with rotation players they drafted for the long haul as they have better value as trade chips (i.e. trade decent prospects before they plateau). The Blazers are a cautionary tale there; aside from the injury bug, Pritchard generally drafted well but then never cashed in his chips as he envisioned all his mid/late picks being long term backups on a championship team. There's just precious little precedent for that ever working when compared with successful consolidation trades pushing teams over the top.


Bingo! This is why I don't view guys like Blatche or McGee as untouchable. You can't be in the "constantly developing young players" business. At some point you have to decide if you can build around a guy. And if you can't, move him before the rest of the league figures out the same thing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#323 » by gesa2 » Fri Jan 7, 2011 11:07 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
Bingo! This is why I don't view guys like Blatche or McGee as untouchable. You can't be in the "constantly developing young players" business. At some point you have to decide if you can build around a guy. And if you can't, move him before the rest of the league figures out the same thing.


And I'm afraid that the league is gonna figure this out on Blatche PDQ. So here's another Charlotte idea:

Blatche, Thornton and Booker to Charlotte
TT Najera and McGuire to DC

Jordan loves him some ACC players, maybe he likes Booker. Najera has 2 years left (checked shamsports on this one). McGuire is just in to make the numbers work, but he's not a bad guy to have around either.
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#324 » by gesa2 » Fri Jan 7, 2011 11:13 pm

Also according to shamsports, Matt Carroll's contract has an early termination after next year. so we could also do this:

Blatche, Yi, Al Thornton to Charlotte
TT Najera and Carroll to Washington

and still save 2012 flexibility
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#325 » by LyricalRico » Sat Jan 8, 2011 1:32 am

Here's a 4-way follow-up to a Melo trade:

Wizards trade: Blatche and Yi
Wizards receive: Nene

Sixers trade: Brand and Iggy
Sixers receive: Blatche, Yi, Diop, Carroll, and Najera

Bobcats trade: Diop, Carroll, and Najera
Bobcats receive: Brand

Nuggets trade: Nene
Nuggets receive: Iggy

TRADE ID 5802592

Why for Washington? We get our veteran inside scorer.

McGee/Armstrong/Seraphin
Nene/Booker
Lewis/Thornton
Young/Howard
Wall/Hinrich

Why for Philly? They move huge contracts for a young PF, shorter contracts, and some immediate savings.

Hawes/Diop
Blatche/Speights
Young/Nocioni
Meeks/Turner
Holiday/Williams

Why for Charlotte? They turn useless pieces into a productive veteran.

Mohammed/Kwame
Brand/Tyrus
Wallace/Diaw
Jackson/Henderson
Augustin/Livingston

Why for Denver? This assumes they deal Melo+Harrington for Favors+picks. Adding a scoring SF that needs the ball in his hands would be an easy fit IMO. Their longterm youth movement would have a solid start:

C - (pick)
F - Favors
F - Iggy
G - (pick)
G - Lawson

:nod:
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#326 » by lupin » Sat Jan 8, 2011 2:08 am

So, how well would Rashard have to play to be traded? Even if you're one of those types that is doing whatever mental acrobatics you can do to convince yourself it was a great trade, Rashard Lewis is not in the long term plans of the Wizards. And don't say he's untradeable either. Juwan Howard, Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis have all been traded on 'ridiculous' contracts. How many guaranteed years does he have left? If he continues to play well (like versus the Nets) perhaps he could be appealing to a contending team looking for a sparkplug to make a difference. There are always a few teams in the league where money doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

And to be clear, I'm not just thinking about this year. That would probably be too much wishful thinking. But maybe the offseason? Maybe the middle of the next season played? Just curious to see what everyone thinks about the types of numbers he has to put up to be worth something with positive value (an expiring, a pick, an expiring and a pick).
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#327 » by Hoopalotta » Sat Jan 8, 2011 3:10 am

lupin wrote:So, how well would Rashard have to play to be traded? Even if you're one of those types that is doing whatever mental acrobatics you can do to convince yourself it was a great trade, Rashard Lewis is not in the long term plans of the Wizards. And don't say he's untradeable either. Juwan Howard, Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis have all been traded on 'ridiculous' contracts. How many guaranteed years does he have left? If he continues to play well (like versus the Nets) perhaps he could be appealing to a contending team looking for a sparkplug to make a difference. There are always a few teams in the league where money doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

And to be clear, I'm not just thinking about this year. That would probably be too much wishful thinking. But maybe the offseason? Maybe the middle of the next season played? Just curious to see what everyone thinks about the types of numbers he has to put up to be worth something with positive value (an expiring, a pick, an expiring and a pick).


None of your premises make a lick of sense as you don't understand the parameters of Rashard's non-guaranteed year and the CBA situation. In order to get someone to provide us with financial relief "during the summer" (which is during a lockout with a moratorium on transactions; bit of a problem), you're asking for them to send us at least $17 million worth of 2012 expirings (which almost nobody has) and then pay Rashard something like $10-14 million in 2013 after being waived (2013 is the partially guaranteed year). Why would anyone want to spend $10+ million on Rashard in 2013 without him even playing unless we're kicking in a lottery pick?

Only two real possibilities present themselves:

1) Trade Rashard before this year's deadline to a desperate team. Very unlikely, but at least they're getting him for a year and a half before that dead-year. They'd surely send back some bad money too. The only real idea I came up with was Redd/Maggette for Shard/Hinrich and that doesn't even save any 2013 money anyway.
2) Trade Rashard for worse players on bad contracts. Maybe the Bobcats?

But the question becomes, why push it? Bottom line, there's other solutions and we'd be better off working a buyout even without an amnesty provision than we would with most of the Rashard trade ideas. Particularly intriguing would be what I saw in that Turkglu trade from Toronto to Phoenix where he waived some of the guaranteed money off his final year in order to facilitate the trade. Usually buyouts are prorated, but it seems like there's some flexibility with partially guaranteed years.

But why even press before seeing what's up with Alan Houston type amnesty provisions? You might try doing some "mental acrobatics" so as to have some idea what you're talking about.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#328 » by Hoopalotta » Sat Jan 8, 2011 5:12 am

Wojnarowski is saying that a massive BOYD was proposed by the Nets to the Pistons during the Melo talk:

# As @Al_Iannazzone wrote, NJ-DET talked as part of Melo 3way. Talks died when NJ wanted DET 1st rounder AND dump Petro on them, sources say.

# NJ needs a 3rd team to move Murphy contract, but why would DET take Petro's $7M and lose an '11 lottery pick just to clear Rip's contract?

# DET wouldn't trade '11 pick, but would consider deal including Murphy-Petro for Rip to save $25M with team's financial woes, sources tell Y!


http://twitter.com/wojyahoonba

The Pistons balked, but they were supposed to take Petro back for Rip while coughing up their lottery pick. I wonder how close they were, though? What if someone more talented than Petro were in there?

The sale of that team is about to go down, so there could be room for a financial trade getting forced. I don't want Rip, but I'd certainly be curious as to what all could be done there as the Pistons pick could be a real golden ticket.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#329 » by mhd » Sat Jan 8, 2011 5:53 am

Andray Blatche+Yi+unprotected #1 for Granger?

Indy gets more cap space for this year, while the Wiz get a needed all arounf SF. Lewis can shift to PF.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#330 » by mhd » Sat Jan 8, 2011 6:18 am

What about Blatche+Thorton for Camby+2011 NO 1st rounder?


Camby is a vet who can help McGee, Booker, and Seraphin. He's still productive and has a history with EG. Wiz actually save some money for 2012 FA plans as Camby expires.

Blazers get younger and a guy who can play center or PF and is signed to a very good contract.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#331 » by likwitdesi » Sat Jan 8, 2011 7:43 am

Would the Nets trade us Favors for Blatche? What we have going for us is that the Nets are one of the teams Blatche usually plays well against.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#332 » by no D in Hibachi » Sat Jan 8, 2011 8:58 am

I don't think the Wizards unprotected #1 for 2011 and Blatche gets that done.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#333 » by lupin » Sat Jan 8, 2011 12:32 pm

Hoopalotta wrote:None of your premises make a lick of sense as you don't understand the parameters of Rashard's non-guaranteed year and the CBA situation. In order to get someone to provide us with financial relief "during the summer" (which is during a lockout with a moratorium on transactions; bit of a problem), you're asking for them to send us at least $17 million worth of 2012 expirings (which almost nobody has) and then pay Rashard something like $10-14 million in 2013 after being waived (2013 is the partially guaranteed year). Why would anyone want to spend $10+ million on Rashard in 2013 without him even playing unless we're kicking in a lottery pick?

Only two real possibilities present themselves:

1) Trade Rashard before this year's deadline to a desperate team. Very unlikely, but at least they're getting him for a year and a half before that dead-year. They'd surely send back some bad money too. The only real idea I came up with was Redd/Maggette for Shard/Hinrich and that doesn't even save any 2013 money anyway.
2) Trade Rashard for worse players on bad contracts. Maybe the Bobcats?

But the question becomes, why push it? Bottom line, there's other solutions and we'd be better off working a buyout even without an amnesty provision than we would with most of the Rashard trade ideas. Particularly intriguing would be what I saw in that Turkglu trade from Toronto to Phoenix where he waived some of the guaranteed money off his final year in order to facilitate the trade. Usually buyouts are prorated, but it seems like there's some flexibility with partially guaranteed years.

But why even press before seeing what's up with Alan Houston type amnesty provisions? You might try doing some "mental acrobatics" so as to have some idea what you're talking about.


No, it is I who think you would rather be a jerk than read for comprehension. Fantasy numbers here - but what if Rashard suddenly averaged 35 and 15 over the next 20 games or even the season? Would some team suddenly be interested? No, he won't do that. But what if he was averaging 20 and 10 again like in his prime? Is that enough? That was the crux.

And you suggest that I ignored the lockout. I did not. Do you think they will never play basketball again once they begin the lockout? Do you think the lockout will extend for the entirety of the remainder of his contract? At some point they will prepare to play again and there will be an offseason of some sort however brief. Or they could trade him before the trade deadline of the next season played.

Also, no where in my question did I rule out a simple buy-out with our without an Allen Houston-type clause in the next CBA. That's just your jerky nature reading too much into things. My question was not mutually exclusive of such a proposition.

Simply put, Lewis has had a few good games as a Wizard, case in point the last one against the Nets. What hypothetical level would he have to play at to have any positive value at all?

There's a price for everything - call it an Indecent Proposal if you want.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#334 » by DaRealHibachi » Sat Jan 8, 2011 12:46 pm

I'd do that 4 way trade that LR presented for Nene in a hurry... Yeah, he's allot older than our young guys, but still... He's freakin strong, veeeeery efficient and could teach our soft frontcourt a thing or 2...

I'd do it, not so sure Denver would though...
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#335 » by nate33 » Sat Jan 8, 2011 2:36 pm

likwitdesi wrote:Would the Nets trade us Favors for Blatche? What we have going for us is that the Nets are one of the teams Blatche usually plays well against.

That would be awesome. It's pretty tough to see it happening though. No team trades a very young high draft pick big man who is already reasonably productive (unless they're getting someone like Carmelo Anthony in return, that is).
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#336 » by mhd » Sat Jan 8, 2011 7:21 pm

Wiz interested in Casspi?

from ESPN's weekend dime:

"few more teams that have expressed interest in Sacramento's in-demand Omri Casspi have emerged since ESPN.com's report earlier this week that Chicago and New York are trying to persuade the Kings to part with the second-year swingman. One source close to the situation said Toronto and Washington have joined the Casspi chase, and Sam Amick of AOL FanHouse reports that Denver and the Los Angeles Clippers have inquired, as well. As stated from the start, though, Sacramento will insist that any team take on the contract of Beno Udrih or Francisco Garcia in any Casspi deal and could well ask for even more than that. The Kings' desire to find a new point guard to pair with Tyreke Evans is no secret among rival teams"
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#337 » by 20MexicanosIn1Van » Sat Jan 8, 2011 7:38 pm

Why would SAC do that and what would they want in return? I don't think it would be expirings because Casspi doesn't make that much. I suppose they want some talent in return. We might be able to convince them Blatche is "talent" and do a Blatche + Thorton for Casspi trade. It works in ESPN's trade checker.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#338 » by no D in Hibachi » Sat Jan 8, 2011 7:44 pm

I guess I'm skeptical of Casspi. I consider him a pretty average player who doesn't project to be key cog on a championship caliber team. I see him as a guy picked up by a contending team needing a solid wing to help round out the bench--an 8th or 9th man. Am I missing something? He doesn't seem worth the assets it'd cost to acquire.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#339 » by tontoz » Sat Jan 8, 2011 8:52 pm

no D in Hibachi wrote:I guess I'm skeptical of Casspi. I consider him a pretty average player who doesn't project to be key cog on a championship caliber team. I see him as a guy picked up by a contending team needing a solid wing to help round out the bench--an 8th or 9th man. Am I missing something? He doesn't seem worth the assets it'd cost to acquire.



I would definitely say no to him if it means taking back Garcia/Udrich. He seems like a guy who is an ok player but not someone who is worth tying up too much capspace.

the top priority going forward should be to keep cap space available for the 2012 and 2013 offseasons unless a no-brainer deal presents itself.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#340 » by LyricalRico » Sat Jan 8, 2011 9:10 pm

One source with knowledge of Indiana's thinking, however, said this week that the Pacers -- 6-11 and fading since their big November wins over the Heat and Lakers -- have not dismissed every recent proposal that includes Granger. Another source insisted to ESPN.com that the Pacers, although they naturally would be seeking a lot in return, quietly listened to a few Granger pitches last season, as well.

It seems far safer to suggest that the Pacers would make a move before the Feb. 24 trading deadline with one of their expiring contracts, such as Mike Dunleavy or T.J. Ford, but here's another way to put it: Roy Hibbert, despite his own December fade, has emerged as the more untouchable piece in Indiana's eyes than Granger, who is shooting just 41.6 percent from the field, is going to the free throw line just 5.1 times per game as he too often settles for jumpers … and has three pricey years left on his contract after this season valued at $40 million.


http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... ter-awards

Granger, anyone?

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