Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - 2011 Draft Thread 5

[nate33]

I know its speculation, but anytime EG pulls a trade, I always feel like we got the short end of the stick.

A justifiable concern. EG hasn't done well with trades (except the draft day trade for Booker's rights was pretty nice).

Nevertheless, I can't escape the conclusion that neither Minnesota, Utah, or Washington seem particularly happy with the best player available at their respective draft position. A trade makes a lot of sense and I think it's likely that trade discussions are in the works. It really boils down to the details. How much incentive is required to move up?

[Ed Wood]

At this point surrendering something of significant value in return for a salary dump would seem to either be dumb or some sort of statement about the likely exclusion of an Allan Houston provision from the next CBA, because if everybody does end up with that one get out of jail free card it would appear awfully imprudent to have exiled your best candidate and a high draft pick.

A more visceral reaction: hey, we could do that. Give me Hamilton for the 8th pick and I'll even probably play him, he'd be an overpaid irascible bastard and a pretty good fit next to Wall, and that eighth pick could be something cool.

[nate33]

Utah could send Okur to Minny. He gives them a veteran center and has an expiring contract. Add in a prospect like Seraphin (who wouldn't be needed with Kanter in the fold) and our second and it could be solid value for them.

Minny trades: #2, Pekovic, Webster
Minny recieves: #6, Okur, Seraphin, #34

Utah trades: #3, Okur
Utah receives: #2, Pekovic, Webster

Wizards trade: #6, #34, Seraphin
Wizards receive: #3

I'm not sure that's enough for Minny, but I like the thought.

It's really a matter of juggling all the trade pieces to get fair value for everyone. There's plenty of expendable parts for all parties to work with. They should be able to hash this out.

[kirubel94]

Actually i believe Nbadraft.net, they seem pretty accurate, remember when Tristian Thompson first said he would go back to collage while nbadraft.net later reported he would declare, he ended up declaring.

[nate33]

This would be so much easier if Toronto didn't want a point guard. That really mucks up the works because it significantly reduces the value of our #6 pick in Utah's estimation.

[thinker07]

At this point surrendering something of significant value in return for a salary dump would seem to either be dumb or some sort of statement about the likely exclusion of an Allan Houston provision from the next CBA, because if everybody does end up with that one get out of jail free card it would appear awfully imprudent to have exiled your best candidate and a high draft pick.

A more visceral reaction: hey, we could do that. Give me Hamilton for the 8th pick and I'll even probably play him, he'd be an overpaid irascible bastard and a pretty good fit next to Wall, and that eighth pick could be something cool.

We don't necessarily have the cap space to take on Hamilton's $12.5 million salary. Cleveland can do it because they have a $14 million TPE

[no D in Hibachi]

There is an article on nbadraft.net that there is a 3 team trade in the works between the Wiz, T-Wolves and the Jazz. Not sure how valid it is but it has the Wiz getting the 3rd pick and taking Kanter.

From the article:
"We're hearing that there is a 3 team deal in the works between Utah, Washington and Minnesota. The deal would send the 6th pick and players (and/or cap relief) to Minnesota. Utah would get the 2nd pick and is targeting Derrick Williams. Washington would get the 3rd pick and is targeting Enes Kanter. And Minnesota would move back and dump salary or add veterans such as Paul Millsap."

This makes a lot of sense for everyone. Minnesota, Utah and Washington all have needs that aren't really being met with their position on the draft board. Utah moves up to #2 where they get a go-to big man for the future. Washington gets Kanter at #3. And Minnesota lands Valanciunas or Biyombo at #6 (or maybe trades down a bit more to try and grab Biyombo a little later) while also getting a veteran from Utah.

The only hangup is that Utah doesn't have the right kind of veteran to fit with Minnesota. Millsap seems to be the most expendable vet with value, but he's a bad fit alongside Beasley and Love. Could a fourth team be brought into the mix?

Utah In: 2

Minn in: Millsap, 6, Seraphin 18

Washington in: 3 Flynn

May or may not work, but I've heard that Minny is willing to give away Flynn for free.

[miller31time]

I know I'm in the minority here but if we're trading to get the 3rd pick in the same deal where the 2nd pick is being given up, I would rather give up extra pieces and nab the 2nd pick (Williams).

It seems most on this board are pretty down on him but just a few months ago, we were all touting him as the perfect running-mate and building block for Wall and the Wizards.

[kirubel94]

"League sources now believe Jonas Valanciunas goes to Cavs at #4 even if Enes Kanter is still on the board."

http://twitter.com/#!/RicBucher

[fishercob]

This would be so much easier if Toronto didn't want a point guard. That really mucks up the works because it significantly reduces the value of our #6 pick in Utah's estimation.

I've read that they're very into Biyombo, Leonard and Vesely, as Dwayne Casey is a defense-first coach.

[tontoz]

A WAS-UT-MIN trade certainly makes sense. Hopefully it gets done.

[nate33]

I know I'm in the minority here but if we're trading to get the 3rd pick in the same deal where the 2nd pick is being given up, I would rather give up extra pieces and nab the 2nd pick (Williams).

It seems most on this board are pretty down on him but just a few months ago, we were all touting him as the perfect running-mate and building block for Wall and the Wizards.

I can see the logic in this.

Unfortunately, we don't really have the parts to satisfy Minnesota's needs. They want a capable youngish vet. We don't have one. Unless we include McGee, we really only have enough trade chips to get us up to #3. Utah would then take our package, add Millsap to move up to #2.

[LyricalRico]

Here's another variation of the 4-way involving Indy:

Wolves trade: #2, Pekovic, Webster, Flynn
Wolves receive: Granger, Seraphin

Jazz trade: #3, Milsap
Jazz receive: #2, #15, Flynn

Wizards trade: #6, Seraphin
Wizards receive: #3, Jones

Pacers trade: #15, Granger, Jones
Pacers receive: #6, Milsap, Pekovic, Webster

Minny gets a stud SF and young big, Utah moves up for Williams while still getting some value, Washington gets Kanter at minimal cost, and Indy rebalances their roster. I could see Indy shopping the 6, or possibly taking Biyombo.

EDIT: Meant to put Jones instead of Posey.

[TGW]

I know I'm in the minority here but if we're trading to get the 3rd pick in the same deal where the 2nd pick is being given up, I would rather give up extra pieces and nab the 2nd pick (Williams).

It seems most on this board are pretty down on him but just a few months ago, we were all touting him as the perfect running-mate and building block for Wall and the Wizards.

No one is down on Williams. I think a majority of the board was against giving up McGee, the #6, and the #18, which some people in the minority were saying was a "no-brainer" for the Wizards.

Honestly, I don't see the point in trading the farm for Williams when Kanter would come a whole lot cheaper and might be just as good.

[bullitz]

"League sources now believe Jonas Valanciunas goes to Cavs at #4 even if Enes Kanter is still on the board."

http://twitter.com/#!/RicBucher

This is getting ridiculous here. I can't recall so many rumors before another draft. 7:30 can't get here fast enough.

[nate33]

This would be so much easier if Toronto didn't want a point guard. That really mucks up the works because it significantly reduces the value of our #6 pick in Utah's estimation.

I've read that they're very into Biyombo, Leonard and Vesely, as Dwayne Casey is a defense-first coach.

I wouldn't be surprised if they grabbed one of those guys if Knight was off the board. But if Knight is there, I think they take him.

[no D in Hibachi]

Just remember.

The collective wisdom of the board hated the McGee pick. He turned out to be one of the steals of the draft.

The collective wisdom of the board hated the Booker pick. He may well be one of the steals of his draft. He has the 4th highest PER of his draft class and he defends.

The collective wisdom of the board hates the Vesely idea. Hmmm.

Same went with Nick Young too.

I don't recall all that much controversy about the Young pick. There was disappointment that Detroit grabbed Stuckey right ahead of us, but once we were on the clock, Young seemed like the best player available - or at least there was no other player that people ranked significantly higher.

There was a certain poster who was adomant that N1 was not as good as some bust from Rice...name slipping mind. Other than that I think the reaction was positive. I do remember RealGM crashed on the night of the 2007 draft

[nate33]

I wonder what it would take to flip-flop with Toronto? Maybe just Seraphin.

In that scenario, we'd have the #5 + #18 as trade bait. Surely, Utah would trade us the #3 for that package. They still end up with Knight (at a lower pay scale) while picking up the #18 for their trouble.

A lot of this may have to wait until the draft shakes out. We may see Minny draft Williams, Utah draft Kanter, Cleveland draft Valanciunas, and Toronto draft Knight. Then there would be a ton of wheeling and dealing while the Wizards are on the clock.

[no D in Hibachi]

I know its speculation, but anytime EG pulls a trade, I always feel like we got the short end of the stick.

I generally feel the same with EG's draft day trades, however, if he's able to move up for Kanter and only has to sacrifice Seraphin and/or the 18th pick I'd be more than pleased.

[REDardWIZskin]

"League sources now believe Jonas Valanciunas goes to Cavs at #4 even if Enes Kanter is still on the board."

http://twitter.com/#!/RicBucher

This is getting ridiculous here. I can't recall so many rumors before another draft. 7:30 can't get here fast enough.

Amen brother lol