Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[Dat2U]

Having some time to absorb the trade I'm still not very happy with it but if it signals a real change in direction and is followed up by aggressively pursuing a win now model then it becomes more acceptable. If Nene is the only real veteran addition followed by more of letting the kiddies "develop" philosophy then it's going to look more and more like a panic, I wanna save my job type move.

What I'm also afraid of is short circuiting a crucial stretch where honestly losses mean more than wins. Get a little too competitive, and we might end up talking an awful a lot about Meyers Leonard or Perry Jones come June. It's even more crucial right now that we come away with a desirable choice in the draft now that we've sacrificed what was supposedly a core piece of the rebuild.

Could this trade be a prelude to something bigger down the road? Would a core of Wall, Nene & Carmelo Anthony challenge in the East? I don't quite think so but I'd be intrigued by the idea. So far as I can see it we either can be aggressive, consolidate some other young talent, or use remaining cap space to facilitate adding in another solid player or two. But whatever we do, we can't stand pat now.

[DaRealHibachi]

Having some time to absorb the trade I'm still not very happy with it but if it signals a real change in direction and is followed up by aggressively pursuing a win now model then it becomes more acceptable. If Nene is the only real veteran addition followed by more of letting the kiddies "develop" philosophy then it's going to look more and more like a panic, I wanna save my job type move.

What I'm also afraid of is short circuiting a crucial stretch where honestly losses mean more than wins. Get a little too competitive, and we might end up talking an awful a lot about Meyers Leonard or Perry Jones come June. It's even more crucial right now that we come away with a desirable choice in the draft now that we've sacrificed what was supposedly a core piece of the rebuild.

Could this trade be a prelude to something bigger down the road? Would a core of Wall, Nene & Carmelo Anthony challenge in the East? I don't quite think so but I'd be intrigued by the idea. So far as I can see it we either can be aggressive, consolidate some other young talent, or use remaining cap space to facilitate adding in another solid player or two. But whatever we do, we can't stand pat now.

I like your thinking;

We might be able to get a dude like Melo for cheap in the summer, let Nene rest until next season and draft a Davis/Robinson/Sullinger (oh well) and get a lights-out SG somewhere;

Wall/Craw/Mack
???/Craw
Melo/Singleton
Davis-Robinson-Sullinger/Booker/Dray
Nene/KSera/Dray


Shooting, defense, rebounding, dribble penetration, mix of young upcoming players and established vets, maturity, room for improvement... That's a top 4 east team to start with for sure...

[Spence]

THIS IS CORRECT

1. Young wasn't coming back and I don't want to re-sign McGee for 10-12mil per season
2. Productive centers are hard to come by (helps that they're good, smart people too)
3. Productive centers who are good people and smart players command a lot of money every year
4. Cap space is useless if no one wants to sign with you
5. No one would want to sign with us so we'd have to overpay for mediocre talent
6. There are no FA centers who are even remotely close to Nene (Hibbert doesn't count -- he'll be re-signed)
7. Even with the trade, our cap situation is still looking very promising

If our cap is fine and we're a better, smarter, more attractive destination, what's not to like?

[FreeBalling]

I love the trade, we get rid of two of the three knuckleheads on the team and acquire a defensive center with size and skills.

The days of NY shoting his low percentage fade away are jumper, gone... YES!!!

Now we need to get something for AB.

Say it with me people. "Culture change."

[FreeBalling]

THIS IS CORRECT

1. Young wasn't coming back and I don't want to re-sign McGee for 10-12mil per season
2. Productive centers are hard to come by (helps that they're good, smart people too)
3. Productive centers who are good people and smart players command a lot of money every year
4. Cap space is useless if no one wants to sign with you
5. No one would want to sign with us so we'd have to overpay for mediocre talent
6. There are no FA centers who are even remotely close to Nene (Hibbert doesn't count -- he'll be re-signed)
7. Even with the trade, our cap situation is still looking very promising

If our cap is fine and we're a better, smarter, more attractive destination, what's not to like?

I agree with you 100%, Item #4 has been our killer. Change is coming with Ted, it just takes time.

[verbal8]

The problem I am having with the trade is that there were 5 centers available for trade.

Nene
Okafor
Kaman
Dalembert
Camby

I don't think Camby(age) or Kaman(injuries, inefficiency, expiring contracts, etc) would have been the good fits. Currently as a player, Nene is the best player of the remaining 3.

However once you factor contract in, I think the values are pretty close. Dalembert may have been hard to put a package together for, but I think Okafor is close in value. Paying Nene 26 million in his mid 30s makes up for any advantage in talent production he has over Okafor.

This trade undoes a lot of the financial advantage of dealing Arenas for Lewis.

[hands11]

Compare Ves in year one to McGee in year one is a no brainer. Ves is much better. Has a better foundation to the game. He is stronger. Smarter.

I wish I could agree with you, but I can't. Vesely is terrible. His PER is 7.2. In McGee's rookie year, he posted a PER of 17.0

Vesely totally lacks any kind of offense game. He is a self check. His only hope is if he can bulk up and become a center (where being a self check isn't detrimental). If he can't do that, he is no better than an 11th or 12th man to be used sporadically against certain matchups when the team needs some energy.

Well we will see. Not like I thought Ves was the right choice at 6. But remember, one of the arguments for not picking Ves was.. don't we already have a player like that. Size, finishing, length, running. What I am saying is I like the core of skills, brain and heart of Ves has over McGee in terms of developing into something solid more quickly. McGee has the flash and offensive upside. Ves has more defensive fundamentals and passing skills. They are fundamentally different people, players and approach the game totally differently. Ves is a team player. McGee wants to be a highlight reel star. McGee has more upside that he may or may not reach. Ves has more core that I think he will reach.

Ves has the grit. The D focus. The SUBSTANCE. He is the Anti McGee. Year 1 McGee was trying a lot more offensive moves and blocks and he looked way out of control. He also was getting blown out defensively and was lost on team defense and still is. He was pushed all over the place. He jumped on everything. Sometimes falling over his own feet. It was comical at many points and remained that way even till today. Well Ves isnt forcing those offensive moves and he doesn't get pushed all over the place defensively. And remember, Ves had no summer camp. He was overseas without a visa. This strike year lead to him not getting into the states until just before the games started. Give the kid at least one off season, normal summer and preseason before you judge him so harshly.

I am saying he has a more solid core. He is way stronger then I thought he would be. Honestly, he is ahead of schedule from that I thought he would be this year. Specially considering he has changed position from SF to PF and center. PER is not the only measure. Everything doesnt show up in a stat like that. Specially for a young big man project player changing positions.

I think people are judging him to harshly considering what I mentioned above. The kid is only 21. Had no summer camp. Changed positions. Speaks another language. He is doing fine considering all of that. Actually, more then fine. We will get a better look at his development path next year. My guess is that he develops more quickly then McGee did. His offense may come along slower, but he will be a more fundamentally sound NBA player who contributes in a winning way. The fact that he contributes solid play already without doing so offensively is impressive, not a reason to beat up on the 21 year old kid.

[MDStar]

The problem I am having with the trade is that there were 5 centers available for trade.

Nene
Okafor
Kaman
Dalembert
Camby

I don't think Camby(age) or Kaman(injuries, inefficiency, expiring contracts, etc) would have been the good fits. Currently as a player, Nene is the best player of the remaining 3.

However once you factor contract in, I think the values are pretty close. Dalembert may have been hard to put a package together for, but I think Okafor is close in value. Paying Nene 26 million in his mid 30s makes up for any advantage in talent production he has over Okafor.

This trade undoes a lot of the financial advantage of dealing Arenas for Lewis.

You do realize that it takes two teams to complete a trade, right? Not even trying to be a smart a$$ but you're comment comes to a conclusion that there is no way to validate. In addition, I'm not sure about you but I don't see how bringing in Okafor (who has two years, 30 million left on his contract and who also will be 30 next year) or Dalembert (who's contract is up this year and at 31, we have no reason to resign) accomplishes anything that we're trying to do.

[willbcocks]

Wow, this was a wild day.

I'll start by evaluating the players we gave up:

Young: Bye bye, see ya, don't care a bit.

McGee: I wish the situation had turned out different with McGee. I wish we had gotten rid of other knuckleheads sooner--maybe then he would have shown real progress. But what actually happened was that he was a negative to the culture and a big question mark going forward. I did not want to sign him to a lot of money, and I did not want him to take the qualifying offer and just kill another year here before moving to another team. My prediction is that he's not happy with the offers he gets and he takes the qualifying offer, and I think that would have hurt the development of our whole team. So starting about a week ago, I wanted us to get rid of him even if we got little in return. And in return we got Nene, who, at his contract, is not an asset.

As for Nene himself, even at his contract, I like having him on the team. The team needs to improve its IQ. We've been talking about how to do this in many threads, and the answer has usually been that you need to bring in smarter veterans who actually play well. You can't bring in Mo Evans, because smart or not he's not gonna be involved much on the court. Nene is a solid player, sets good screens, passes the ball, and knows how to play team defense. He has the specific skills that help a young team develop and play winning basketball.

His contract isn't great, and might look bad in a few years. But with the new cap rules, we'll have to be paying someone. And all of our other players are young and will be on rookie deals. Our top pick next year won't have to be paid until Nene's contract is up. It might hurt our ability to get a Lebron and Bosh equivalent free agent signing, but aside from that, we have enough flexibility. And we've pretty much BOYD'ed ourselves out--no one gives up high lottery picks, and we don't really need more guys in the 15-25 range to take flyers on and try to develop while we have so many other players to develop.

Now we have a team with an identity, and it's one that I like. This is the first time I can say that about the Wizards since I became a fan. The big win for me in this trade is that I will enjoy watching the Wizards a lot more tomorrow than I do today.

So in conclusion, like most of EG's trades, this one is poor value, but I actually like what it does for us.

[Spence]

“I’m going to miss them. They are my teammates, they are my friends. I grew up with them,” Blatche said of Young and McGee...

No, you didn't, dude. You never did. That's the point.

[hands11]

Unbiased observer here. When I heard about this trade today, I thought wow, what a trade for Washington, so I get on here to see the fans' reactions, and some of you are actually angry? This team, more than any other team in the NBA, needs a quality veteran presence on the team. He doesn't deserve it, but like it or not, Javale McGee is going to get paid this offseason(see: DeAndre Jordan). Guys like that don't just mature by themselves. They need vocal veterans to get them in line. You can pull all the stats you want, but Nene is a better basketball player than Javale McGee. As for Nick Young, any GUARD averaging 30 minutes, 15 shots, and ONE assist, is not a positive asset. Crawford kind of has the same mindset, but when you have 2 guys who just want to shoot every single time they touch the ball, this will hinder the development of everyone else. Young is the biggest black hole in the league, and he had nobody to put him in his place. Now that he's playing with Chris Paul, I'd bet a lot of money that his shot selection gets a whole hell of a lot better, because CP will chew his ass out if he takes bad shots. Another thing, I don't think Washington was going to have any great FAs beating down their door to play here, and when you can't sign free agents you have to improve through the draft and by trades. You have a potential superstar in Wall, several quality youngsters in Booker, Crawford, Vesely, Seraphin, and Singleton, a high draft pick in a loaded draft, a good center/power forward locked up for a reasonable deal, and you have one of the best trade chips in the NBA for next year(Rashard Lewis' $24m expiring contract), and you can amnesty Blatche to rid yourself of the final piece of cancer on the team. Even if you let the Lewis contract expire, you'll probably have around 20 mil in cap space in 2013 to throw at Howard(dream scenario) or Harden(possible). Not sure what some of you are so down about, but the future looks bright in Washington.

Thanks for the perspective.

What this also bring up is this. How will Nick and McGee react to getting yelled at by teammates when the mess up. Both are mentally weak. Nick could easily go into a funk second guessing himself as we have seen before. These two kids have been taken out of the play pen. Both will need to be weaned like babies. They will need to change there games. No more over dribbling and more driving for Nick. More passing. McGee will need to learn team defense. If they can do these things, that will be good players. But I dont think it will be an easy process for either. We know because we have seen it. But if it is going to happen for either of them, it really was going to take them going to a more established vet environment. And lets not forget, we had that hear at one point and that didnt even help. But both are older now. Maybe it will take this time.

With Nene, you get none of that. Actually, you get the opposite. Getting ride of them and getting Nene is a huge culture change. Wall has to be really happy.

I said a long time ago before the total blow up, building this Wiz team via all young players was not going to work. You need some kind of vet core. That is why I wanted to keep CB and Haywood. But with the addition of Nene, they are starting to build that core again. Now they have Nene and Mason, maybe Mo with Lewis on foot out the door. While Lewis hasnt played much, he was a vet who was an All Star. Losing him would have left a maturity whole. Nene fills that with a younger body. He will be a positive influence on the entire front court.

[Nivek]

Nivek:

Please list the options that will be upcoming to get a better center than Nene in free agency, or a significantly better value than he represents.

Here's the list: Someone.

Just because we don't see a definite option on March 15 doesn't mean there won't be a good one on July 15. Or at the 2013 trade deadline. Another option will come along. They're still making more basketball players. I think the Wizards would have been smarter to wait and see what other options would arise, rather than commit to the most expensive part of Nene's career -- which happens to coincide with the time when his play is almost certain to decline.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_201 ... z1pHihEJWg

The Nuggets received center JaVale McGee, forward Ronny Turiaf, a $13 million trade exception and a future second-round pick,

"I can't deny that my head has felt like it's ready to burst a little bit," Denver coach George Karl said. "Trades of guys who have been with you for a long time always cause some turmoil. Nene has been a heck of a part of what we've done here. He's been through some tough situations with the cancer — there's a connection there that I hopefully will always have with him. His family was very good to me through my cancer situation. So there's more than just a basketball friendship there. There's more of a friendship with humanness, mindfulness and soulfulness.

"I have a lot of love for Nene. I wish I had time for a walk; I guess that's the best way to phrase it."

Karl did make sure Nene got the $67M extension. He got his friend paid first and then they traded him. It is a business but he and the Nuggets did right by Nene. They took care of him and his family financially.

[Nivek]

I'd much rather make the mistake and pay the up & comer. The athletic young guy who's already productive with room to improve rather than a 30 yr old guy in descent with consistent injury concerns.

Yeah. Here's when you want NBA players: rookie contract, because they're almost always bargains. That's usually ages 20-22 through ages 24-26. And then the 2nd contract -- ages 24-26 through ages 28-31. NBA players peak between 25-28 (depending on the study), but the declines starts (gradually) at about 30-31 for most players, and intensifies at 32. This is also the time when NBA players are at their most expensive. So, the Wizards have bought the most expensive part of Nene's career, as well as the period likely to be his least productive.

[Nivek]

People should stop going on about Nene's bad contract. Of course he has a bad contract - If he didn't then Denver wouldn't have traded him. The Wiz aren't going to get any quality player in a trade or as a free agent on a great team friendly contract. You want Batum or Ryan Anderson? You're going to have to overpay like crazy or their teams will simply match. Maybe they would match even if we made a crazy offer. So we have to overpay any way you look at it.

I would rather have let McGee walk and then use the cap room to overpay Ryan Anderson and Batum. Draft a center, trade for one, reclaim a few from the scrap heap for a year until you can make additional moves.

[nate33]

What I'm also afraid of is short circuiting a crucial stretch where honestly losses mean more than wins. Get a little too competitive, and we might end up talking an awful a lot about Meyers Leonard or Perry Jones come June. It's even more crucial right now that we come away with a desirable choice in the draft now that we've sacrificed what was supposedly a core piece of the rebuild.

This is my biggest concern. We can't disrupt the tank this year. Wall needs to take a dive or something.

On the bright side, it will be hard to win many games without Nick Young's shooting. Mason did the job last night, but eventually, scouts will figure out that they need to punish Mason at the other end of the floor.

[JAR69]

People should stop going on about Nene's bad contract. Of course he has a bad contract - If he didn't then Denver wouldn't have traded him. The Wiz aren't going to get any quality player in a trade or as a free agent on a great team friendly contract. You want Batum or Ryan Anderson? You're going to have to overpay like crazy or their teams will simply match. Maybe they would match even if we made a crazy offer. So we have to overpay any way you look at it.

I would rather have let McGee walk and then use the cap room to overpay Ryan Anderson and Batum. Draft a center, trade for one, reclaim a few from the scrap heap for a year until you can make additional moves.

But we weren't getting Batum - look at everything Portland did to clear room. And there is no guarantee that we would get Anderson, especially with him being an RFA and Orlando willing to do anything to keep Howard.

[nate33]

People should stop going on about Nene's bad contract. Of course he has a bad contract - If he didn't then Denver wouldn't have traded him. The Wiz aren't going to get any quality player in a trade or as a free agent on a great team friendly contract. You want Batum or Ryan Anderson? You're going to have to overpay like crazy or their teams will simply match. Maybe they would match even if we made a crazy offer. So we have to overpay any way you look at it.

I would rather have let McGee walk and then use the cap room to overpay Ryan Anderson and Batum. Draft a center, trade for one, reclaim a few from the scrap heap for a year until you can make additional moves.

You wouldn't get both of those guys for $13M. My guess is each of them alone will cost $10M or more.

[Nivek]

I'm sure there were people who bellyached when Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas and Charlie V were traded/allowed to walk. They're young and they put up good numbers, they're obviously gonna develop, right! Cept they didn't.

Unintelligent, unmotivated and spoiled players don't win in this league, no matter how many double doubles they put up. They're fool's gold no matter how good their statlines at 23 are. McGee is a scrub and Young is an even bigger scrub. Nene is overpaid, but at least he can play.

The issue for me is NOT that they traded McGee or Young. The issue is what they took back. I think they'd have been better off letting the contracts of McGee and Young expire, and then using the cap space to overpay younger players. As I've posted a few times -- they're buying the wrong part of Nene's career.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'd much rather make the mistake and pay the up & comer. The athletic young guy who's already productive with room to improve rather than a 30 yr old guy in descent with consistent injury concerns.

Yeah. Here's when you want NBA players: rookie contract, because they're almost always bargains. That's usually ages 20-22 through ages 24-26. And then the 2nd contract -- ages 24-26 through ages 28-31. NBA players peak between 25-28 (depending on the study), but the declines starts (gradually) at about 30-31 for most players, and intensifies at 32. This is also the time when NBA players are at their most expensive. So, the Wizards have bought the most expensive part of Nene's career, as well as the period likely to be his least productive.

It makes a whole lot more sense to to me to clear guys like McGee and Young off the books with late firsts or round two picks; and to try to reload with players like Barton, Melo, Royce White, Drew Gordon, etc. than to overpay for Nene. My strategy for improving the Wizards would have been to package Young or McGee with a round two pick, and to get back a late first. That way players like Moutrie, Tony Mitchell, Moe Harkless, John Jenkins, etc would have been certain acquisitions in addition to the lottery pick.

I would have saved money for free agents aged 24-26, like Nicolas Batum, Ersan Ilyasova, and Ryan Anderson. Those are guys I would give $13M if necessary to acquire. You overpay one if you have to but you get a younger, healthier guy and IMO a better investment. I would have paid for an elite, young shooter.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.