2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[mohammed10]

Food for thought:

Code: Select all

Name          HTnoSH   Wgt  Span    Reach  NSVt  MxVt  Aglty  Sprint
Bradley Beal  6'3.25"  202  6'8"    8'4"   33    39    10.95  3.28 
John Wall     6'2.75"  196  6'9.25" 8'5.5" 30    39    10.84  3.14 

Payton + Hersey Hawkins
Isiah + Dumars
Westbrook + Harden

I like it.

This.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Draymond Green continues to impress. He has a very quick lane agility score for a big man (11.01) and his vertical is in line with Thomas Robinson and Terrence Jones. And that's despite a terrible body fat score. If he loses a little fat, he could pan out to be a respectable NBA player.

Thomas Robinson has a real disappointing lane agility of 11.96

Draymond Green is a real sleeper pick. He measured out two-and-a-half inches taller than Crowder, (but I don't put much stock in the tape measurements other than to say Jae may have to play some SG in the NBA). Going by Green's NCAA performance numbers I see no reason he won't be a more successful player than much-touted Royce White. I know he seems a little redundant with Booker, but I still will be happy if he's picked.

***Since I typed that paragraph, I looked at Crowder's latest twitter update on DX. Seems he grew an inch (j/k) since the pre-draft combine. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jae-Crowder-10084/

I think the measurement and the agility stuff are not worth the price of a Starbuck Latte.

I just go by game performance and factor in their age/physical development. YODA might find some correlation with standing reach, and I know Dat loves this but personally, I think athleticism matters a lot more than the measurements. Earl Boykins and Muggsy Bogues played a long time, and at 5'8" I'm taller than they are. I don't think Nate Robinson is any more than 5'7" or 5'8".

Jae Crowder and Draymond Green both can play, regardless of their size relative to their position(s). I wouldn't mid see either in a Wizards uniform

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Jae Crowder doesn't have a great standing reach and isn't a great leaper, but he has the third best lane agility among potential forwards in this draft (behind Acy and Plumlee, who can't shoot). I could see him panning out to be a quick-footed position defender who can stay in front of his man and get a hand in his face, even if he doesn't always challenge the shot.

His measurements might cause him to drop all the way to our #46 pick but I don't think I'd risk letting him slip past #33. It's too bad because I'd really like to pick up both Crowder and Draymond Green in the second round. And then pick up Denmon as a walk-on after he doesn't get drafted.

I swear I didn't read this before I just posted about Green and Crowder, nate.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think Meyers Leonard might move up into the top 7 or 8 picks, because of how he measured out. Not sure how I feel about him but he is tall and quite athletic and strong. He is young, too, at 20.

[Mizerooskie]

Fishercob,

I could agree with that. I have reservations but am more comfortable with Beal after the measurements and athletic testing. The Foye comp bothers me in that Foye could drive but couldn't finish at the hoop and always settled for pull up jumpers or floaters and I'm hoping Beal could be a more complete 2 guard bu that's to be determined.

I still like Robinson; I think he's the safest prospect out of the group but still offers all-star potential.

1. Robinson
2. MKG- Measurements didn't help or hurt him IMO, whereas they helped others. Still love the intangibles
3. Beal- Closed the gap w/ MKG with a strong combine

The Foye comp doesn't make any sense. As was stated before, Beal beat him in every athletic category save one, and Foye's measurements were after 4 years in a college S&C program. Beal's are after one.

I really think you picked Foye as the comp because he was the worst player of the group.

[closg00]

Sullinger's lane agility is an embarrassing 12.77. That's on par with Brendan Haywood, Aaron Gray, Patrick O'Bryant, DeSagana Diop and Mike Sweetney.

There are literally no examples of guys that slow and that short who have panned out in the NBA. Here is a list of guys with a greater than 12.25 agility score and a less than 9-2 standing reach:

Code: Select all

Name              Reach    Agility
Sherron Collins   7'10"    12.31 
Will Barton       8'6.5"   12.5   
Shan Foster       8'8.5"   12.3   
Randy Holcomb     8'9"     12.85 
Jared Sullinger   8'9.5"   12.77 
Gregory Smith     8'10.5"  12.43 
Ryan Gomes        8'10.5"  12.49 
Lawrence Roberts  8'10.5"  12.52 
Jordan Williams   8'10.5"  12.74 
Derrick Caracter  8'11.25" 12.78 
Mike Sweetney     8'11.5"  12.9   
Henry Sims        9'0"     12.33 
Festus Ezeli      9'0"     12.35 
Herbert Hill      9'0.5"   12.31 
Hilton Armstrong  9'1"     12.28 
Aaron Gray        9'1"     12.63 
Jermareo Davidson 9'1.5"   12.63 

And Sullinger is among the shortest and slowest on this list.

I would like to know how Big Baby scored on this test, he's pretty lumbering.

[popper]

Jae Crowder doesn't have a great standing reach and isn't a great leaper, but he has the third best lane agility among potential forwards in this draft (behind Acy and Plumlee, who can't shoot). I could see him panning out to be a quick-footed position defender who can stay in front of his man and get a hand in his face, even if he doesn't always challenge the shot.

His measurements might cause him to drop all the way to our #46 pick but I don't think I'd risk letting him slip past #33. It's too bad because I'd really like to pick up both Crowder and Draymond Green in the second round. And then pick up Denmon as a walk-on after he doesn't get drafted.

Nate, isn't Green a carbon copy of Booker? Also, should we be considering Plumlee with our high second round pick to add length and athleticism down low? Nene could move to PF and Plumlee could come off the bench to relieve Seraphin.

[dobrojim]

I think Green is a better passer and ballhandler than Booker by a wide
margin. He may have played 4 at MichState, but he probably could
have played the 3 as well. I think multi-talented is going to be his
calling card. Smart player who does everything asked. All that said,
he isn't the athlete Booker is.

[Dat2U]

MKG's numbers are somewhat proving what I suspected of him before...an overrated athlete with a high motor and a horrible looking jumpshot. I thought the comparisons to Gerald Wallace were somewhat inaccurate. Wallace is a supreme run/jump athlete who at his prime was a highlight machine. MKG (granted he was a freshman) doesn't have the amount of highlight dunks and oops one would expect from a top flight athlete in college.

That butt ugly jumpshot is probably the worst I've seen since Bill Cartwright.

But but... you just said this a few hours ago?

None of these guys are finished products...obviously each player has significant holes in their game they need to work on. Barnes' problem is completely mental--physically, athletically, and skillwise he is already superior to 90% of the players in the league. It is the responsibility of the team picking him to help him get over that mental hump and help him improve his basketball IQ. I'm not convinced the Wizards staff would bring it out of him, but that doesn't dismiss the fact that he passes the eye test.

[Dat2U]

Jae Crowder doesn't have a great standing reach and isn't a great leaper, but he has the third best lane agility among potential forwards in this draft (behind Acy and Plumlee, who can't shoot). I could see him panning out to be a quick-footed position defender who can stay in front of his man and get a hand in his face, even if he doesn't always challenge the shot.

His measurements might cause him to drop all the way to our #46 pick but I don't think I'd risk letting him slip past #33. It's too bad because I'd really like to pick up both Crowder and Draymond Green in the second round. And then pick up Denmon as a walk-on after he doesn't get drafted.

I'd snap up Crowder in a heartbeat at #33. Wouldn't risk him slipping. And hope to get Denmon at #46.

[TGW]

What makes Lilliard better than Jerryd Bayless? They seem like similar players IMO.

[REDardWIZskin]

With Green measuring out well, could he possibly play SF on out team, He's a great rebounder and will likely be comparable shooter to singleton if not a better one, not to mention his ball handling is light years ahead of Singleton. Although it may not matter because he may have just moved into the first round.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What makes Lilliard better than Jerryd Bayless? They seem like similar players IMO.

TGW, immediately before I read this I saw the wiretap saying Toronto is working out Lillard and had the thought, "They always go for the same kind of players." Before Bayless it was Leandro Barbosa.

I am not sure what they are looking for in Toronto, but I guess moving Calderon is high on their priority list.

[dobrojim]

Jae Crowder doesn't have a great standing reach and isn't a great leaper, but he has the third best lane agility among potential forwards in this draft (behind Acy and Plumlee, who can't shoot). I could see him panning out to be a quick-footed position defender who can stay in front of his man and get a hand in his face, even if he doesn't always challenge the shot.

His measurements might cause him to drop all the way to our #46 pick but I don't think I'd risk letting him slip past #33. It's too bad because I'd really like to pick up both Crowder and Draymond Green in the second round. And then pick up Denmon as a walk-on after he doesn't get drafted.

I'd snap up Crowder in a heartbeat at #33. Wouldn't risk him slipping. And hope to get Denmon at #46.

that draft would make lots of folks here REALLY happy unless there were
huge questions about what we did at the top of the draft.

[REDardWIZskin]

Man why do you guys waste time writing essays on 2nd round draft picks when its pretty clear we're stocked with backup caliber players as it is.

well for many of us, the reason is simple

at 3 - we know we're most likely looking at a choice between
2-3 guys. So the discussion is pretty limited. Some like player A,
some like B, some like C.

But it's wide open as far as the 2nd round picks go beginning with
the fact that you have a much worse idea of who might be there
to take. We all like guys like Barton, Crowder, Green, Jenkins, Denmon etc.
but we just don't know who might take a flier on one of them before
our turn comes up again.

I suppose we should just pretend that we don't have ANY second round picks and that our current roster will be in tact until we win a championship and we shouldn't bring in any more players to compete with our current roster because no player in the second round could ever make an NBA roster :-/

[Dat2U]

I think Meyers Leonard might move up into the top 7 or 8 picks, because of how he measured out. Not sure how I feel about him but he is tall and quite athletic and strong. He is young, too, at 20.

I would take Leonard ahead of Zeller, Henson and Sullinger at this point. He's got great size and skill. Usually you can't go wrong with that.

I really think Sully will have trouble defending at the next level.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

With Green measuring out well, could he possibly play SF on out team, He's a great rebounder and will likely be comparable shooter to singleton if not a better one, not to mention his ball handling is light years ahead of Singleton. Although it may not matter because he may have just moved into the first round.

This is how I feel about Green as well. He might turn out to be better than Chris Singleton.

I agree with dobrojim's assessment of Green vs Booker. He's more skilled in ball handling and passing, but Booker is more athletic. I still wouldn't mind having another savvy player on the team like Green.

[willbcocks]

I look at those combine numbers, and what I see is that there are a ton of guys who have the right physical stuff to play in the league. For example, everyone has practically the same full court sprint score. Guys like John Wall seem faster because they push the ball, and guys look Faried seem faster because they keep running all game.

Here are the guys with the best results:

Plumlee (poor reach but unbelievable vertical--perhaps a bad reach measurement?)
Lamb
Harkless
Quincy Miller

Worst:

Sullinger
Zeller
Crowder
MKG
Machado

Sullinger and Machado's scores were so bad they shout do not draft. MKG's was a little disappointing since he's known as an athlete. Crowder's stats make him look like a stronger guy who could push people around in college but might struggle in the NBA.

I'd still happily pick up Zeller if he fell to, say 20, and we got a pick there; or Crowder if he falls to our pick.

If Beal is off the table at 2, I'll happily take MKG, but these results have made me finally cast my lot in the Beal camp if we have the choice. Really good numbers all around to go with a great skill set, production, and a good attitude at a position of need. What's not to like?

[fishercob]

With Green measuring out well, could he possibly play SF on out team, He's a great rebounder and will likely be comparable shooter to singleton if not a better one, not to mention his ball handling is light years ahead of Singleton. Although it may not matter because he may have just moved into the first round.

This is how I feel about Green as well. He might turn out to be better than Chris Singleton.

I agree with dobrojim's assessment of Green vs Booker. He's more skilled in ball handling and passing, but Booker is more athletic. I still wouldn't mind having another savvy player on the team like Green.

Green and Singleton are very different; I don't think it's a question of one vs. the other. I still think Singleton has a chance to become a very good "3 and D" player -- some combo of Bowen, Horry, Posey, etc. Green reminds me of Diaw -- a guy that "just knows how to play" and will really help you on offense with his skill and versatility, though perhaps not on D.

[jivelikenice]

Fishercob,

I could agree with that. I have reservations but am more comfortable with Beal after the measurements and athletic testing. The Foye comp bothers me in that Foye could drive but couldn't finish at the hoop and always settled for pull up jumpers or floaters and I'm hoping Beal could be a more complete 2 guard bu that's to be determined.

I still like Robinson; I think he's the safest prospect out of the group but still offers all-star potential.

1. Robinson
2. MKG- Measurements didn't help or hurt him IMO, whereas they helped others. Still love the intangibles
3. Beal- Closed the gap w/ MKG with a strong combine

The Foye comp doesn't make any sense. As was stated before, Beal beat him in every athletic category save one, and Foye's measurements were after 4 years in a college S&C program. Beal's are after one.

I really think you picked Foye as the comp because he was the worst player of the group.

I picked Foye because:
*Verticals are nearly identical- Beal has a one inch advantage
*Foye has him beat on the sprint & the agility tests.
*Similar physique w/solid frames (Beal is little taller)
*Foye was viewed as a good shooter coming out and ball handling was his weakness


Foye shooting has been solid while unspectacular but his inability to drive and finish at the hoop with explosion (maybe injury related) has limited his game. Beal has similar strengths and question marks about his game. Beal is younger and has the ability to further develop skills, but already looks physically mature so I don't think its an unfair comp in terms of physical measurables. I don't think Beal will end up like Foye, but I think its a good worst case scenario comp, which in my opinion is different than picking the worst player for a comp to show everyone he's no good. He could develop into an Eric Gordon, but he may bottom out as a Randy Foye....Is that unfair to say?

In regards to picking Foye as a comp because he's the worst player? That's laughable and moronic. What would trashing Beal, a likely pick for us do for me? I don't understand why I can't critique a player who has a year of solid but unspectacular play under his belt.