Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

[Nivek]

I believe that a significant part of player "development" lies in player "selection." Not necessarily picking the most finished product, but being able to discern between guys who will work hard to develop their games and guys who will think they've "arrived" when they sign their guaranteed contract.

[stevemcqueen1]

How Utah spends its money this summer is going to be big. If they lock up one of Jefferson or Millsap long term, then that creates an opportunity to trade for one of their bigs. If they let their two best players walk for nothing, then they are stupid and we won't have the opportunity.

I think they'll keep one of them. If so, what we should do on draft day when our pick comes up, is ask them who they want, Oladipo, Smart, McLemore, or Shabazz. Use that player as the central piece in a package to get preferably Derrick Favors. But if we can't get him then I'd settle for Enes Kanter albeit for less than I would pay for Favors.

And if they wouldn't deal with me, I'd make a huge offer to Favors in the summer and find some way to put a poison pill in the deal.

[tontoz]

And if they wouldn't deal with me, I'd make a huge offer to Favors in the summer and find some way to put a poison pill in the deal.

Are you familiar with something called the salary cap?

[stevemcqueen1]

I believe that a significant part of player "development" lies in player "selection." Not necessarily picking the most finished product, but being able to discern between guys who will work hard to develop their games and guys who will think they've "arrived" when they sign their guaranteed contract.

I think a big part of it is picking out guys you can actually find a role for and getting them consistent minutes. That's why teams can only successfully develop so many young players at the same time.

You can't have one or two guys bringing every one else down all the time. You can't be playing 4 on 5 or 3 on 5 all game every game or else you end up with the disaster that was the first two years of the Wall era.

We acquired too many young players to develop them all. Last year we had seven first and second year guys on the team and the ability to actually develop maybe two or three of them.

[stevemcqueen1]

And if they wouldn't deal with me, I'd make a huge offer to Favors in the summer and find some way to put a poison pill in the deal.

Are you familiar with something called the salary cap?

What part of it are you referring to?

[tontoz]

And if they wouldn't deal with me, I'd make a huge offer to Favors in the summer and find some way to put a poison pill in the deal.

Are you familiar with something called the salary cap?

What part of it are you referring to?

We can't make a big offer to Favors. We can't offer anyone more than the MLE because we are well over the cap.

I think you may want to pay a visit to Larry Coon's FAQ.

[stevemcqueen1]

We can't make a big offer to Favors. We can't offer anyone more than the MLE because we are well over the cap.

I think you may want to pay a visit to Larry Coon's FAQ.

Derrick Favors is an RFA in the summer of 2014. He's still under contract this summer. I was talking about extending him an offer in the summer of 2014 when we'll be well under the cap.

[tontoz]

We can't make a big offer to Favors. We can't offer anyone more than the MLE because we are well over the cap.

I think you may want to pay a visit to Larry Coon's FAQ.

Derrick Favors is an RFA in the summer of 2014. He's still under contract this summer. I was talking about extending him an offer in the summer of 2014 when we'll be well under the cap.

If you are talking about next summer you may want to mention that in your post, especially since this is the 2013 draft thread lol.

[Dr Positivity]

And on my second point, look at my list of good bigs again. All of them were drafted in the top 8. I can't even think of a high quality 2-way big that was taken outside of the top 8. The best I can come up with is Ibaka, who is really only a role player on offense. Maybe you count Bynum, but he took 6 years to groom and really only dominated for short spurts over two seasons.

Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Josh Smith, Noah, Brook Lopez, Bynum were picked out of the top 10. If players like Ibaka, Larry Sanders, Gortat, Asik count them too. Furthermore the fact that Tyson Chandler, Nene, Pau. Dwight are not on the teams that drafted them sort of removes them from the "have to get them by picking top 8" discussion

[AFM]

Let's just all be happy we didn't draft Austin Rivers.

[FAH1223]

since we won't be top 5, expect another bust

[AFM]

I heard we are drafting Nivovich Shostokovich Petroc from Bavaria. He's 8 feet tall, has a 40 inch vertical, and has played basketball on Xbox

[nate33]

And on my second point, look at my list of good bigs again. All of them were drafted in the top 8. I can't even think of a high quality 2-way big that was taken outside of the top 8. The best I can come up with is Ibaka, who is really only a role player on offense. Maybe you count Bynum, but he took 6 years to groom and really only dominated for short spurts over two seasons.

Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Josh Smith, Noah, Brook Lopez, Bynum were picked out of the top 10. If players like Ibaka, Larry Sanders, Gortat, Asik count them too. Furthermore the fact that Tyson Chandler, Nene, Pau. Dwight are not on the teams that drafted them sort of removes them from the "have to get them by picking top 8" discussion

I'll grant you Gasol and Hibbert. Both were extremely good late picks. Smith isn't really a 2 way player. He's terrible on offense. Lopez isn't much of a defender. I mentioned Bynum (who went 10th) and explained why he perhaps doesn't qualify as a good big. It has already been brought up the Noah wasn't top 8 (he was 9th in a deep draft, not really a stunning rebuttal of my primary point). Sanders, Gortat and Asik are solid players, but not really good ones. Nobody is talking about those guys making any All Star games.

We are not the Lakers so we won't be getting players like Pau Gasol or Dwight Howard when they are still in the primes. We are not the Knicks so we won't be landing Tyson Chandler. That leaves us with past-their-prime injury-prone guys like Nene.

My point still stands. You take good bigs high in the draft because it is EXTREMELY difficult to acquire them at any other time. And teams that have these good 2-way bigs win almost all the time, regardless of their teammates. Take Noel over Porter.

[thricethefun]

Shabazz rubs me**** the wrong way. Hope we stay away from him.

[AFM]

He did put up a clunker last night.

[FAH1223]

We're currently the 3rd worst team in the NBA. I hope we can stay at this spot.

Before his injury, I would have just took Noel. I think we may as well just take him and see how he does under the guidance of the veteran bigs we have now. It sucks because we don't have a SF prospect who's a scorer and the players Ernie has drafted to play in the front court do not belong in the NBA.

I wish this was 2014.

[dangermouse]

Hell yeah to wishing this was 2014.

I think we can take Noel regardless of the injury. He's young, he'll bounce back. The advantage is we have Okafor and Nene, with Booker, Ves, Seraphin, Singleton behind them. He can rest and then we can bring him back slowly, and eventually he takes the spot of Okafor who just happens to be expiring.

[hands11]

2nd, you are arguing with yourself if your focusing on the need for a good big man. I know my original post was a little long, but the focus of it was not that you don't need a big. It was about when you pick and who you get, building a team, positions of important, what you pay them, and how you get them. I did talk about pure centers, but I never said you don't need a big man. Obviously have KG and Duncan help. I said that. I also mentioned Dirk and Shaq.

So is there a KG, Duncan, Dirk or Shaq in this draft ?

Hands, it's pretty maddening to have a discussion with you when you can't even own up to the things you wrote the day before. Clearly, the gist of your post was that good big men aren't as important as good wings, and with that being your theory, you wouldn't not place much value on Noel. If that wasn't the point, then your post had no point at all.

In today game, I don't see the best teams with the centers as their best player. Certainly not young centers. You need a good defensive center first and for most part there are not many Shaq teams out there.

Great talent at SG, SF is more important and its gotta be a player that has a real feel for the game. Good handles. Great shot. Great D. PF is important also. Just look at the Wizard. Beal and Nene are what stabilize the team.

I honestly don't know enough about Noel to know his upside. Can he be elite top 3 in the league, if not, I wouldn't take him top 3.

If I have a top 3 pick, I'm going with Otto or Victor O. [/b]Victor O has the high ceiling and Otto has the low bust potential. 6-8 SF that plays team ball and can do it all. He will keep value and should get better year after year as he learns and gets stronger. Burke would be my 3rd choice as a top pick but in the 5-6 range but I would trade Wall in doing it and get another top pick.

[b]I don't think I would use my first top 4 on Noel or Len. I think they both be good but I think the Wizard still need core stars and center isn't often that position any more in the NBA.

I guess in your view it would have no point then. In my view there is a difference between important and as I said.. More important.

Very few player in any draft in any year are going to be one of those top players I spoke about. Beal was a great pick. Probably our best pick in over 10 years if not 15 or more.

My point was..keep a solid perspective on what you are picking. Don't overvalue a pick. Look at who those key players are. If you want value or depth. Fine. Go get it. But don't over pay for it.

[AFM]

Hands, what's your draft board this year?

[hands11]

The game has changed Hands. Defensive 3 seconds and the elimination of hand checking spaced out the floor and put more 3 ball shooting forwards on the court. But the main reason SFs probably seem super valuable now is because three of the best players in the league are SFs. But before the heyday of LeBron, Durant, and Carmelo was the heyday of the PF with Dirk, KG, and Duncan among others. And before them there was the heyday of the C with Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, and Diesel. The great players of any area tend to shape what we think can/should be done on a basketball court.

But there are certain things about the game that will never change. Such as it's always good to be seven feet and talented. Just like it's always good to be able to run fast and jump high.

Bigs will always have a disproportionate impact on a game that relies so heavily on height. Bigs have a disproportionate impact on scoring efficiency on both ends of the court at every level. Bigs cover the most critical space on the court on both ends. They typically end possessions more than any other position. And Bigs that can operate and defend lots of space like Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel are first overall picks.

Its been a long long time since the days of Ewing, Robinson, and Hakeen. The rules have changed.

You are making my point.

And again. I didn't say bigs. I said pure centers. There is a different between Dirk and TD and Shaq and Ewing.