Political Roundtable Part XXIV

[gtn130]

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Like, come on. Look at this ****! Trump is literally one of the dumbest people on the entire planet, and 42.5% of the country is nodding along to this juvenile bull****.

[gtn130]

It affects what they write and frame stories. DUH!

Have you noticed that the NYTimes and the WaPo cheerleads every war and pushes every bull propaganda the State Department puts out? They were the frontrunners are pushing the yellow cake Saddam/WMD conspiracy theory, and yet people accept every piece of "news" they report like it's gospel.

Hell, the NYTimes have been caught red-handed giving stories to the Obama admin before it went to print for **** sake. Both those outlets are military industrial complex news outlets, period. So yea, when they try and bull their way out of the Pentagon being criticized, I take them with a GRAIN OF SALT.

Dude, the NYT peddles a bunch of neocon war hawk bull**** because they're...not...liberal...

Look at how the NYT frames every story. Look at their dumpster fire of an op-ed section. They're plainly and obviously not a liberal paper.

That doesn't mean they're owned by the CIA though lol

You’d think that all the glowing articles about Nazis would give a hint that the NYT isn’t a liberal paper lmao

Yeah, seriously. Occam's Razor. What's funny is if we were to rank the most QAnon-friendly posters in this thread it would be like:

1) SD20
2) Nate
3) XXXtreme Progressive TGW

[Wizardspride]

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[pancakes3]

rorschach test news alert

apparently the migrant caravan had its numbers bolstered via recruiting from a fake account of unknown origins, with circumstantial evidence showing that it was done so as to increase participation in the caravan, to make it a bigger news story, for the purposes of making it newsworthy for the midterms.

could be republicans at work, knowing that tear gassing brown people is red meat for their base
q anon theorists would posit that dems anticipating republicans, betting that Trump would have a severe reaction, which would fuel blue wave
could also be russia playing professor chaos

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/a-mysterious-imposter-account-was-used-on-facebook-to-drum

[stilldropin20]

welp...looks like we have a ball game in 2020. The left has found their Donald Trump. Since i'm still a card carrying democrat maybe I'll go volunteer in her office. This is gonna be a wild ride!

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[pancakes3]

oh look, no one on here is talking about the jobs report.

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or more importantly wages!!

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especially the bottom 95%..finally seeing wage growth and its been 20 years!!

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job creation is 43,000 short of projections, and wage growth is more or less the same in the same trend it's been since 2009.

did you really want to talk about it? what do you want to talk about?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-market-news-jobs-report-bolsters-expectations-less-aggressive-fed-2018-12-1027790841

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/07/us-created-155000-jobs-in-november-vs-198000-expected.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/business/economy/jobs-report.html

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/live-november-jobs-report-130148944.html

https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx?panel=1

[Pointgod]

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Like, come on. Look at this ****! Trump is literally one of the dumbest people on the entire planet, and 42.5% of the country is nodding along to this juvenile bull****.

Trump probably thinks he’s clever but hes the dumb **** that hired Rex Tillerson.

[stilldropin20]

oh look, no one on here is talking about the jobs report.

Read on Twitter

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or more importantly wages!!

Read on Twitter

especially the bottom 95%..finally seeing wage growth and its been 20 years!!

Read on Twitter

job creation is 43,000 short of projections, and wage growth is more or less the same in the same trend it's been since 2009.

did you really want to talk about it? what do you want to talk about?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-market-news-jobs-report-bolsters-expectations-less-aggressive-fed-2018-12-1027790841

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/07/us-created-155000-jobs-in-november-vs-198000-expected.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/business/economy/jobs-report.html

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/live-november-jobs-report-130148944.html

https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx?panel=1

There are many open positions. Over a million of unfilled jobs. Much More jobs available than people unemployed. Problem is corporations are saying the applicant pool is not qualified enough.

^^And that is what is driving up wages.

-i think we are in a sweet spot where we need to keep unskilled immigration low and force these employers to hire and train from within...and offer higher wages for these open positions. this is what will continue to drive up wages.

-Once the skilled positions are filled with the current talent pool...we can then open up our borders again for the unskilled group that has upwardly mobilized.

1. -make these corporations train their existing talent pool.

2. -make them compete with each other by offering higher wages and better medical benefits.

3. -then fill the vacancies with immigrants. (vet the immigrants on the way in!)-IMO, a wall would help to prevent line jumpers and illegal hires off the books.

[Pointgod]

rorschach test news alert

apparently the migrant caravan had its numbers bolstered via recruiting from a fake account of unknown origins, with circumstantial evidence showing that it was done so as to increase participation in the caravan, to make it a bigger news story, for the purposes of making it newsworthy for the midterms.

could be republicans at work, knowing that tear gassing brown people is red meat for their base
q anon theorists would posit that dems anticipating republicans, betting that Trump would have a severe reaction, which would fuel blue wave
could also be russia playing professor chaos

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/a-mysterious-imposter-account-was-used-on-facebook-to-drum

Straight out of the Steve Bannon playbook

[pancakes3]

There are many open positions. Over a million of unfilled jobs. Much More jobs available than people unemployed. Problem is corporations are saying the applicant pool is not qualified enough.

^^And that is what is driving up wages.

-i think we are in a sweet spot where we need to keep unskilled immigration low and force these employers to hire and train from within...and offer higher wages for these open positions. this is what will continue to drive up wages.

-Once the skilled positions are filled with the current talent pool...we can then open up our borders again for the unskilled group that has upwardly mobilized.

1. -make these corporations train their existing talent pool.

2. -make them compete with each other by offering higher wages and better medical benefits.

3. -then fill the vacancies with immigrants. (vet the immigrants on the way in!)-IMO, a wall would help to prevent line jumpers and illegal hires off the books.

the projected natural unemployment rate is around 4% so we're already at a place where immigration does not "take" jobs away from residents.

[stilldropin20]

There are many open positions. Over a million of unfilled jobs. Much More jobs available than people unemployed. Problem is corporations are saying the applicant pool is not qualified enough.

^^And that is what is driving up wages.

-i think we are in a sweet spot where we need to keep unskilled immigration low and force these employers to hire and train from within...and offer higher wages for these open positions. this is what will continue to drive up wages.

-Once the skilled positions are filled with the current talent pool...we can then open up our borders again for the unskilled group that has upwardly mobilized.

1. -make these corporations train their existing talent pool.

2. -make them compete with each other by offering higher wages and better medical benefits.

3. -then fill the vacancies with immigrants. (vet the immigrants on the way in!)-IMO, a wall would help to prevent line jumpers and illegal hires off the books.

the projected natural unemployment rate is around 4% so we're already at a place where immigration does not "take" jobs away from residents.

but you still want wages to rise. Right? You cant over saturate any gi ven jobs market. Skilled or unskilled. Doctors or engineers. Secretaries or Nurses. If you flood any given market with too many applicants, wages will be stagnant or fall.

Simple supply and demand.

And the "open" positions are mostly skilled or slightly skilled positions. So we need a different emphasis on immigration so as to be fair to all american citizens. For example...are you an attorney? how would you feel if trump paid every singel attorney in the world $100K to emigrate here and the bar was in on it and waived bar requirements. <--I wouldnt be too happy about it. As a dentist, I want control of emigrating dentists both on a national level, a State level, a local level. I want control as to how many dentists we graduate. And i want control as to how many practice in any given area per capita. Most of which we have. UNskilled labor has no such luck. With no wall, people come in and take jobs away because they will do it for less pay. Hoard up 10-15 people(or more) in a 4BR house in a shappy neighborhood so as to keep cost of living down and therefore can do the same job for much less pay. I dont think that is fair to existing American...espeically 7th,8th, 9th, 12, 15, generation african americans that might not yet be qualified as "skilled" labor due to past generations of racists policies.

They deserve "protections" NOW so as to earn a higher wage. The best form of protections is to provide minimal immigration of unskilled labor.

[pancakes3]

There are many open positions. Over a million of unfilled jobs. Much More jobs available than people unemployed. Problem is corporations are saying the applicant pool is not qualified enough.

^^And that is what is driving up wages.

-i think we are in a sweet spot where we need to keep unskilled immigration low and force these employers to hire and train from within...and offer higher wages for these open positions. this is what will continue to drive up wages.

-Once the skilled positions are filled with the current talent pool...we can then open up our borders again for the unskilled group that has upwardly mobilized.

1. -make these corporations train their existing talent pool.

2. -make them compete with each other by offering higher wages and better medical benefits.

3. -then fill the vacancies with immigrants. (vet the immigrants on the way in!)-IMO, a wall would help to prevent line jumpers and illegal hires off the books.

the projected natural unemployment rate is around 4% so we're already at a place where immigration does not "take" jobs away from residents.

but you still want wages to rise. Right? You cant over saturate any gi ven jobs market. Skilled or unskilled. Doctors or engineers. Secretaries or Nurses. If you flood any given market with too many applicants, wages will be stagnant or fall.

Simple supply and demand.

And the "open" positions are mostly skilled or slightly skilled positions. So we need a different emphasis on immigration so as to be fair to all american citizens. For example...are you an attorney? how would you feel if trump paid every singel attorney in the world $100K to emigrate here and the bar was in on it and waived bar requirements. <--I wouldnt be too happy about it. As a dentist, I want control of emigrating dentists both on a national level, a State level, a local level. I want control as to how many dentists we graduate. And i want control as to how many practice in any given area per capita. Most of which we have. UNskilled labor has no such luck. With no wall, people come in and take jobs away because they will do it for less pay. Hoard up 10-15 people(or more) in a 4BR house in a shappy neighborhood so as to keep cost of living down and therefore can do the same job for much less pay. I dont think that is fair to existing American...espeically 7th,8th, 9th, 12, 15, generation african americans that might not yet be qualified as "skilled" labor due to past generations of racists policies.

They deserve "protections" NOW so as to earn a higher wage. The best form of protections is to provide minimal immigration of unskilled labor.

do you even know what you're trying to say? because i have no idea what your point is.

1) there is already a system in place for immigration, where they are vetted in a way that american jobs are protected.
2) undocumented workers, right now, without a wall, is saturating the unskilled market, and employment rates are still low, proving that illegal immigration does not have any practical effect on employment when compared to more significant factors affecting the economy at large.

so what is your point?

[queridiculo]

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Like, come on. Look at this ****! Trump is literally one of the dumbest people on the entire planet, and 42.5% of the country is nodding along to this juvenile bull****.

Holy ****, that's a real Trump tweet?

[stilldropin20]

the projected natural unemployment rate is around 4% so we're already at a place where immigration does not "take" jobs away from residents.

but you still want wages to rise. Right? You cant over saturate any gi ven jobs market. Skilled or unskilled. Doctors or engineers. Secretaries or Nurses. If you flood any given market with too many applicants, wages will be stagnant or fall.

Simple supply and demand.

And the "open" positions are mostly skilled or slightly skilled positions. So we need a different emphasis on immigration so as to be fair to all american citizens. For example...are you an attorney? how would you feel if trump paid every singel attorney in the world $100K to emigrate here and the bar was in on it and waived bar requirements. <--I wouldnt be too happy about it. As a dentist, I want control of emigrating dentists both on a national level, a State level, a local level. I want control as to how many dentists we graduate. And i want control as to how many practice in any given area per capita. Most of which we have. UNskilled labor has no such luck. With no wall, people come in and take jobs away because they will do it for less pay. Hoard up 10-15 people(or more) in a 4BR house in a shappy neighborhood so as to keep cost of living down and therefore can do the same job for much less pay. I dont think that is fair to existing American...espeically 7th,8th, 9th, 12, 15, generation african americans that might not yet be qualified as "skilled" labor due to past generations of racists policies.

They deserve "protections" NOW so as to earn a higher wage. The best form of protections is to provide minimal immigration of unskilled labor.

do you even know what you're trying to say? because i have no idea what your point is.

1) there is already a system in place for immigration, where they are vetted in a way that american jobs are protected.
2) undocumented workers, right now, without a wall, is saturating the unskilled market, and employment rates are still low, proving that illegal immigration does not have any practical effect on employment when compared to more significant factors affecting the economy at large.

so what is your point?

simple. curtail illegal and Legal immigration of unskilled labor. allow supply and demand to dictate that wages continue to rise, hopefully at even sharper rates.

Do you think it is a mere coincidence that wage have finally rised in 22 years for the bottom 90%??? just now...all of a sudden in the last 3 quarters??

Or are wages rising because UE is at historic low...forcing employers to compete with each other for human resources?

I mean...do i really have to spell it out like that?

[pancakes3]

but you still want wages to rise. Right? You cant over saturate any gi ven jobs market. Skilled or unskilled. Doctors or engineers. Secretaries or Nurses. If you flood any given market with too many applicants, wages will be stagnant or fall.

Simple supply and demand.

And the "open" positions are mostly skilled or slightly skilled positions. So we need a different emphasis on immigration so as to be fair to all american citizens. For example...are you an attorney? how would you feel if trump paid every singel attorney in the world $100K to emigrate here and the bar was in on it and waived bar requirements. <--I wouldnt be too happy about it. As a dentist, I want control of emigrating dentists both on a national level, a State level, a local level. I want control as to how many dentists we graduate. And i want control as to how many practice in any given area per capita. Most of which we have. UNskilled labor has no such luck. With no wall, people come in and take jobs away because they will do it for less pay. Hoard up 10-15 people(or more) in a 4BR house in a shappy neighborhood so as to keep cost of living down and therefore can do the same job for much less pay. I dont think that is fair to existing American...espeically 7th,8th, 9th, 12, 15, generation african americans that might not yet be qualified as "skilled" labor due to past generations of racists policies.

They deserve "protections" NOW so as to earn a higher wage. The best form of protections is to provide minimal immigration of unskilled labor.

do you even know what you're trying to say? because i have no idea what your point is.

1) there is already a system in place for immigration, where they are vetted in a way that american jobs are protected.
2) undocumented workers, right now, without a wall, is saturating the unskilled market, and employment rates are still low, proving that illegal immigration does not have any practical effect on employment when compared to more significant factors affecting the economy at large.

so what is your point?

simple. curtail illegal and Legal immigration of unskilled labor. allow supply and demand to dictate that wages continue to rise, hopefully at even sharper rates.

Do you think it is a mere coincidence that wage have finally rised in 22 years for the bottom 90%??? just now...all of a sudden in the last 3 quarters??

Or are wages rising because UE is at historic low...forcing employers to compete with each other for human resources?

I mean...do i really have to spell it out like that?

coincidence between what? are you assuming that bc Trump is tweeting about immigrants that there's been substantive changes in immigration?

and what exactly do you think happened in 2008? what part of recovering from a recession can't you understand?

[stilldropin20]

do you even know what you're trying to say? because i have no idea what your point is.

1) there is already a system in place for immigration, where they are vetted in a way that american jobs are protected.
2) undocumented workers, right now, without a wall, is saturating the unskilled market, and employment rates are still low, proving that illegal immigration does not have any practical effect on employment when compared to more significant factors affecting the economy at large.

so what is your point?

simple. curtail illegal and Legal immigration of unskilled labor. allow supply and demand to dictate that wages continue to rise, hopefully at even sharper rates.

Do you think it is a mere coincidence that wage have finally rised in 22 years for the bottom 90%??? just now...all of a sudden in the last 3 quarters??

Or are wages rising because UE is at historic low...forcing employers to compete with each other for human resources?

I mean...do i really have to spell it out like that?

coincidence between what? are you assuming that bc Trump is tweeting about immigrants that there's been substantive changes in immigration?

and what exactly do you think happened in 2008? what part of recovering from a recession can't you understand?

ok. simple question. do you or do you not believe in the time tested laws of supply and demand?

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[Wizardspride]

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[pancakes3]

simple. curtail illegal and Legal immigration of unskilled labor. allow supply and demand to dictate that wages continue to rise, hopefully at even sharper rates.

Do you think it is a mere coincidence that wage have finally rised in 22 years for the bottom 90%??? just now...all of a sudden in the last 3 quarters??

Or are wages rising because UE is at historic low...forcing employers to compete with each other for human resources?

I mean...do i really have to spell it out like that?

coincidence between what? are you assuming that bc Trump is tweeting about immigrants that there's been substantive changes in immigration?

and what exactly do you think happened in 2008? what part of recovering from a recession can't you understand?

ok. simple question. do you or do you not believe in the time tested laws of supply and demand?

this is just more vague-posting and tweet-spamming, and continues to sidestep the issue (if there ever was one).

your original post was about jobs growth, and wanting to talk about jobs growth.

i asked what you wanted to say re: jobs

your replied with a post saying that immigration needs to be checked so as to protect jobs

i assumed then you wanted to talk about immigration, asked for you to clarify what your original post had to do with immigration

you then posted a vague screed about how immigrants are taking people's jobs, with irrelevant hypos and vague allusions to wage growth sprinkled in.

i then corrected your erroneous assertions re: the immigration process and asked you to clarify your point yet again

you came back with an insinuation that some time in the last 3 quarters, immigration policy has changed somehow to limit the supply of workers, and that is the reason for wage growth.

I replied that you're ignoring the fact that there's been steady wage growth since 2009, and no substantive changes to the number of border detentions or deportations - just an increase in emphasis by the president as a scare tactic. also that you don't seem to be focusing on the actual drivers of the american economy and instead fixating on the labor market, which was never in crisis.

and now you're pivoting to more vague posting about supply and demand, so I ask again - what is your point? the point that more people is bad? that less people is good? maybe. in a superficial, introductory level, yeah. but it took like 7-8 posts to pin you down and extract it from you, and that's only to get your assertion. you have no substance behind your stance - facts figures re: immigrant population changes, etc.

all you have is a basic premise that immigrants take american jobs, which is, again, a 5th grader's understanding of the issues - essentially parroting a South Park in saying DEY TOOK ERRRR JERBSSSS.


so yes. supply and demand curve, i'm familiar. decrease labor supply, increase employment demand. there is an equilibrium point where supply and demand is optimal. it's not at 0% employment. i've said that economists agree that the optimal unemployment rate is around 4%, which we are now. we are living in that world, and with respect to immigration policy, it does not require a wall, and it does not require detention of children or migrants.

but i don't really expect, or really want an answer from you. i just want you to realize just how exhausting it is to engage you in this thread. i want to convey to you how pointless your contributions are.

[Pointgod]

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I’m surprised that no one has posted the news from the Cohen filings. Your President is a criminal and the only thing keeping him from being charged is the fact that he’s President.