Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[AceDegenerate]

my fault i didnt know. but what do you guys think?

If Arenas is so great and his defense is going to improve, why don't the Wizards keep him? 2014 1st Rnd Pick? This is not NBA 2K10 buddy, deals like that garbage don't happen in real life.

Why not simply root for the Bobcats?

[miller31time]

Merged rrini's thread with the trade thread.

-miller

[nate33]

my fault i didnt know. but what do you guys think?

Right now, most teams view Arenas as a highly negative asset. Gerald Wallace is Charlotte's best player. There's no way they even consider this trade.

Also, I'm not so sure Gerald Wallace is the ideal fit in a Flip Saunders system because Flip likes the SF to catch and shoot. I think we could do just as well with an easier-to-obtain free agent small forward like Tayshaun Prince or Shane Battier. Those guys defend nearly as well as Wallace and shoot much better.

If I were running the team and had a goal to achieve the maximum number of wins in 2011/12 without sacrificing any young assets, I'd probably sign Tayshaun Prince to start at SF and add whoever I could sign among M.Gasol, Al Horford, Kendrick Perkins or Joel Pryzbilla to play center. (I'd probably end up with Pryzbilla since those other guys are RFA's or would rather play somewhere else.) Take our current team, replace Howard with Prince, replace Armstrong with Pryzbilla, and add another year of seasoning; and they would probably win 45-50 games in 2011/12.

That said, I don't think these types of acquisitions are in the cards. Ted Leonsis has repeatedly stated that he will patiently build through the draft. He's not trying to win 45 games in 2011/12, he's trying to win a championship in 2014 or so.

[Hoopalotta]

If I were running the team and had a goal to achieve the maximum number of wins in 2011/12 without sacrificing any young assets, I'd probably sign Tayshaun Prince to start at SF and add whoever I could sign among M.Gasol, Al Horford, Kendrick Perkins or Joel Pryzbilla to play center. (I'd probably end up with Pryzbilla since those other guys are RFA's or would rather play somewhere else.) Take our current team, replace Howard with Prince, replace Armstrong with Pryzbilla, and add another year of seasoning; and they would probably win 45-50 games in 2011/12.

That said, I don't think these types of acquisitions are in the cards. Ted Leonsis has repeatedly stated that he will patiently build through the draft. He's not trying to win 45 games in 2011/12, he's trying to win a championship in 2014 or so.

It could be that "your way" becomes the actual path despite the Ted Commandments.

Ted's articulated what he wants to do, but he can't alter the workings of the CBA, so if he really is planning to keep Gil long term, he's got to finagle opportunity where it actually exists, with that being more profound than his native druthers.

I'm not seeing that much incentive towards patience if we're somewhere in the 40 win range come the 2012 season and Blatche and McGee are looking at sizable extensions. Hard to leverage a real draft-centric build towards a champagne-ship in that situation as I don't know how you work a jump in there other than drafting a Ginobli late.

And unless we pull out some real tricks in the 2012 offseason dealing with the timing on those perspective extensions, we're pretty likely to just have either the summer of 2011 or the post lockout signing period thereafter to make something big happen. I presume we could work a BOYD trade before the next draft even with a lockout (not sure how that works logistics-wise), but that's a bit tough to see as an impact move if that's truely the last real bubble of "bigger than the MLE" cap-space. Some might say we can just outright buy a volume of late picks and go scatter-shot with volume fire, but it seems there's always eight teams that want to drop straight cash on a pick and one or two actually pull it off.

As currently constructed, I see the pure rebuilding path as being not so compelling. Of course I like it in theory, but I don't see it converge with our roster and salary situation.

[pancakes3]

http://www.epicfail.com/wp-content/uplo ... k-fail.jpg

we should make a play for dampier. ship off nick young, al thornton, and/or draft picks for gerald henderson and dampier.

[gesa2]

It could be that "your way" becomes the actual path despite the Ted Commandments.

Ted's articulated what he wants to do, but he can't alter the workings of the CBA, so if he really is planning to keep Gil long term, he's got to finagle opportunity where it actually exists, with that being more profound than his native druthers.

I'm not seeing that much incentive towards patience if we're somewhere in the 40 win range come the 2012 season and Blatche and McGee are looking at sizable extensions. Hard to leverage a real draft-centric build towards a champagne-ship in that situation as I don't know how you work a jump in there other than drafting a Ginobli late.

And unless we pull out some real tricks in the 2012 offseason dealing with the timing on those perspective extensions, we're pretty likely to just have either the summer of 2011 or the post lockout signing period thereafter to make something big happen. I presume we could work a BOYD trade before the next draft even with a lockout (not sure how that works logistics-wise), but that's a bit tough to see as an impact move if that's truely the last real bubble of "bigger than the MLE" cap-space. Some might say we can just outright buy a volume of late picks and go scatter-shot with volume fire, but it seems there's always eight teams that want to drop straight cash on a pick and one or two actually pull it off.

As currently constructed, I see the pure rebuilding path as being not so compelling. Of course I like it in theory, but I don't see it converge with our roster and salary situation.

Nicely articulated summary of the Hoopa world view. I see the logic, and understand the worry that often follows, that we won't be able to beat Miami with the minimal cap flexibility that we're projected to have after 2011. The best counterpoint is that Ted may be the kind of owner that opens more doors than your logic allows for. Rehabilitating a troubled but talented player on a big contract. Paying for foreign scouting to find the gem in the later rounds. Paying to create an environment that players want to come to. Who knows what possibilities we may be able to create if we have a well funded, outcomes-oriented, long term view front office led by a visionary owner.

And maybe the best view towards a championship involves a longer time frame than 4-5 years? Maybe we have to build our brand as a good team, stable organization, place that players want to come to, for several years, then aim for the top? Miami was a good team in the Mourning years, but never made the finals. But with Riley and Arrison, the foundation to rebuild was there and they made it eventually. I don't think Dallas is going to win a championship in the next 2-3 years. Kidd's too old and they've gambled on aging players around him too much. But I'd bet on them over the next 15, with Cuban as boss.

[Ced]

How would you guys feel about a Dampier and Carroll for Arenas deal?

[fishercob]

How would you guys feel about a Dampier and Carroll for Arenas deal?

You'll get a range of opinions on the subject in these parts. I'm guessing it's roughly 50/50.

Happy reading: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1022747

[nate33]

How would you guys feel about a Dampier and Carroll for Arenas deal?

I've sat here for a few minutes trying to compose a response, but there's just too much to say. Fishercob's post was best. You need to read that thread if you really want to know how we feel.

Bottom line, most around here are kind of excited to see a rehabilitated Gilbert Arenas playing SG alongside Wall. Our cap situation is so good that we can afford Arenas' ginormous contract. Overall, the consensus seems to be that if we want to trade Arenas, we'll be better off waiting until he's had a chance to rehab his value first.

That said, I think management would pull the trigger if an opportunity to painlessly dump Arenas' contract presented itself. I'm not sure they'd do your deal with Matt Carroll, but change Matt Carroll to Eduardo Najera and they'd probably do it.

[fishercob]

By the way, IF Charlotte made that deal and Gil returned to 85% of his pre-injury form, Charlotte could win the east.

Not saying the WOULD, but you take the best defensive team in the league and them upgrade from Livingston/Augustin to Gil/Livingston, and you're probably winning 55ish games.

[631_Heat]

Would Washington consider doing a deal like this:?

Arenas
Blatche
Young

for

Diaw
Augustin
Dampier
Carroll or Henderson

[montestewart]

Would Washington consider doing a deal like this:?

Arenas
Blatche
Young

for

Diaw
Augustin
Dampier
Carroll or Henderson

I won't, but my name's not Washington.

[DaRealHibachi]

Would Washington consider doing a deal like this:?

Arenas
Blatche
Young

for

Diaw
Augustin
Dampier
Carroll or Henderson

Easy no...

We give up the 2 best players of the trade, for players we already have (Wall > Augustin, Blatche > Diaw, or = for arguments sake), a old player who isn't worth much on a young rebuilding squad (Damp) and money we can't use on anybody...

[nate33]

Would Washington consider doing a deal like this:?

Arenas
Blatche
Young

for

Diaw
Augustin
Dampier
Carroll or Henderson

Not a chance in hell. This is ridiculously bad for the Wizards.

The Wizards aren't sacrificing assets like Blatche, McGee or picks just to unload Arenas. If a deal comes along where they can dump Arenas for an expiring contract, they might consider it. Otherwise, they're content to keep him.

[Dat2U]

I'd do a Hinrich for Dampier deal.

[doclinkin]

It could be that "your way" becomes the actual path despite the Ted Commandments.

Ted's articulated what he wants to do, but he can't alter the workings of the CBA, so if he really is planning to keep Gil long term, he's got to finagle opportunity where it actually exists, with that being more profound than his native druthers.

I'm not seeing that much incentive towards patience if we're somewhere in the 40 win range come the 2012 season and Blatche and McGee are looking at sizable extensions. Hard to leverage a real draft-centric build towards a champagne-ship in that situation as I don't know how you work a jump in there other than drafting a Ginobli late.

As currently constructed, I see the pure rebuilding path as being not so compelling. Of course I like it in theory, but I don't see it converge with our roster and salary situation.

Nicely articulated summary of the Hoopa world view. I see the logic, and understand the worry that often follows, that we won't be able to beat Miami with the minimal cap flexibility that we're projected to have after 2011. The best counterpoint is that Ted may be the kind of owner that opens more doors than your logic allows for. Rehabilitating a troubled but talented player on a big contract. Paying for foreign scouting to find the gem in the later rounds. Paying to create an environment that players want to come to. Who knows what possibilities we may be able to create if we have a well funded, outcomes-oriented, long term view front office led by a visionary owner.

I also am more sanguine that Ted may have a significant effect on the looks of the new CBA. He's new to the Old Boys club, but has taken a quiet leadership role in a lockout before, which succeeded in limiting player salaries etc and reviving the league. He's a pretty decent ambassador for his causes, articulate, reasonable and likable.

Given Ted's predilections and prior success structure in the NHL I could see Ted spearheading a move for better interplay between the NBA and it's stunted minor league system. Expanded rosters with lower salaries, more flexibilities on call-ups and developmental work at a lower level.

Right now we have a piss-poor structure (league-wide but here especially) for actual development at a lower level. Larger share of the revenues may allow for more investment in the minor leagues.

There's a wealth of underdeveloped talent, that never quite hooks on despite world class athleticism. There are swarms of talented ballers who never sniff the league since they couldn't handle school and thus can't get exposure.

Not saying the D-League is the only cure, but if we're talking development, team culture, and room to improve, here's one area that can surely improve a thousandfold with a little care and cash.

Granted, this won't completely change in any short term time frame.

[leswizards]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... gets082610

Is there any deal the Wizards can do a deal that lands Carmelo?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5680713

Probably not enough right?

[verbal8]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-anthonynuggets082610

Is there any deal the Wizards can do a deal that lands Carmelo?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5680713

Probably not enough right?

I think the only way the Wizards get Carmelo is if they are willing to roll the dice with a one year rental. If the Nuggets deal Billup separately they might go for Hinrich and Blatche plus filler.

[nate33]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-anthonynuggets082610

Is there any deal the Wizards can do a deal that lands Carmelo?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5680713

Probably not enough right?

I don't see any way to make it work with both Arenas and Carmelo on the roster. That's too many ball-dominant offensive player, not enough defense, and too much money.

If we acquire Melo it has to involve the unloading of Arenas. It's tough to make that happen this offseason while Arenas' value is so low. If Denver waits until mid-season to trade Melo, and if Arenas plays well, maybe there'd be a way to bring Melo to DC. Otherwise, I don't think it makes sense.

At any rate, if we trade for Melo now, we'd surely have to include one of Blatche or McGee in the trade.

[Ruzious]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-anthonynuggets082610

Is there any deal the Wizards can do a deal that lands Carmelo?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5680713

Probably not enough right?

I don't see any way to make it work with both Arenas and Carmelo on the roster. That's too many ball-dominant offensive player, not enough defense, and too much money.

If we acquire Melo it has to involve the unloading of Arenas. It's tough to make that happen this offseason while Arenas' value is so low. If Denver waits until mid-season to trade Melo, and if Arenas plays well, maybe there'd be a way to bring Melo to DC. Otherwise, I don't think it makes sense.

At any rate, if we trade for Melo now, we'd surely have to include one of Blatche or McGee in the trade.

+1. If Denver waits till around midseason to trade Melo, then a trade involving Melo for Arenas and stuff might make sense - but not now.