The Amazingly Suck Theodore Leonsis Thread

[Nivek]

You definitely want to meet CCJ if you're in his corner of the world. He's a good talker, and he brings gifts. I still have that Elvin Hayes picture up in my office.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

That's crazy, Nivek. Really? I'm glad to know that gift was appreciated.

[Jay81]

i bet Trever Ariza becomes a top 5 hated wizards player of all time when its all said and done

[dobrojim]

could be, but that would go against what we've seen about Wittman.
If TA ends up being really putrid, hopefully other guys will be getting
his minutes.

[payitforward]

...We are not YOUNG AND LEGITIMATELY ON THE RISE. That's Philly and Denver.

Well now... we've entered the "I'll say anything whatsoever" phase of justifying the work of a bad GM.

We *were* YOUNG, before the trades for Nene, Okafor and Ariza, were we not? Nene's one guy, ok. Then we took our tools for making sure we were ON THE RISE and traded them for two veteran journeymen -- not bad but not anything special either. So much for being ON THE RISE. Doing what it takes not to be hardly counts as a strategic result to the opportunity we had.

...We are STILL ASSEMBLING. Relying heavily on the draft, hitting on some guys, missing on others, hoping that a couple of these young'uns take the leap and become stars so that you can begin the process of actually constructing the team.

Yes, we're Still Assembling -- every team is still assembling for heaven's sake! As to relying heavily on the draft, no we just stopped doing that this off-season.

So what Nivek and Payit and others are talking about, in talking about Danny Green and Lou Williams and Landry Fields, or holding out for Door #3 this summer with beaucoup cap room, is not maneuvering that would put us in the category of CLEAR CONTENDERS or DESPERATELY SEEKING GUY #3 or YOUNG AND LEGITIMATELY ON THE RISE. ...It is STILL ASSEMBLING maneuvering. As the Okafor and Ariza deal was. Or, to put it more clearly -- it is simply different maneuvering in the same category. It is not maneuvering, moreover, that would take our team from STILL ASSEMBLING to YOUNG AND LEGITIMATELY ON THE RISE.

The way to become a good team w/ a future in which you can become an even better team is to constantly acquire better players with as long a run-way in front of them as possible. How could that not be true. There are no categories of the kind you describe in caps, and either you do or you don't get the best players you can. If you do, you move towards the goal of contending if you don't you don't.

Ted blinked; Ernie grinned privately (he has no interest in trying to build a contender -- doesn't want to endanger is job), and orchestrated an all-in maneuver for mediocrity now.

legitimate boldness -... is not an option for this team RIGHT NOW, given the owner's stated intention of building through the draft and not being carefree with his money.

This is contradictory nonsense. We stopped "building through the draft" and we acquired $100m of salary obligations.

We have to wait ... to see if the young talent matures and we are, in fact, on the rise. At which time, perhaps we can make a consolidation trade and/or position ourselves to be in contention for that third piece.

More contradictory nonsense. Two sentences earlier you'd said we weren't on the rise. Nor do you wait to see if last year's young players are good before continuing to add more young players who you think are good.

[badinage]

It's like listening to Paul Ryan. You're pointed, but you don't deal with the essential point. That your plan to add Landry Fields and other marginal players is not better than what was done this summer. Just different. And, I would argue, worse. Cheaper, yes -- and that's not insignificant. But we'll never know if your less effective but cheaper option is better. Which means you never have to defend it.

[montestewart]

It's like listening to Paul Ryan. You're pointed, but you don't deal with the essential point. That your plan to add Landry Fields and other marginal players is not better than what was done this summer. Just different. And, I would argue, worse. Cheaper, yes -- and that's not insignificant. But we'll never know if your less effective but cheaper option is better. Which means you never have to defend it.

I'm not nearly so hot for Fields at that price as payitforward, but I have to confess, your platform seems kind of long on slogans and short on specifics and evidence, with a lot of flip flopping, and...failure to deal with your opponents essential points, even. Are we or are we not a team on the rise, Mr. Ryan? Yeah, it does seem a little like the debates, or maybe the Bates Motel.

[badinage]

Evidence? You mean trot out statistics from prior years' performance? That's not evidence. 

Stats help us to predict what might happen, yes. But that's not the same as saying with certainty. And the history of sport is rife with who flourish in new systems. 

...

It is impossible to say with any certainty who is right with regard to the Okafor/Ariza trade, but that doesn't stop many on here from trying. Where's the cry for evidence there?

We'll never know what might have happened had these other middling trades/signings taken place, and yet so many feel so certain that their path is irrefutable. 

...


Acquiring good players. Yeah, wonderful. But as I suggested in my earlier chart, you win by acquiring players like Dwight Howard. Great players. Dominators. 

Denver doesn't have dominators. It has lots of good players. I find that team fascinating and fun to watch, and I will root for it. But it will never win a title as presently constructed. It needs to add a dominator.

Okafor/Ariza is not a trade that makes a huge impact. Nor is adding a Landry Fields or Chandler Parsons. The latter moves are moves of a Still Assembling team.  Which we are. And which Toronto, which added Fields, and Houston, which reupped Parson, are too. 


...

Re: contradictions -- no contradictions. I put us on the cusp of a category. We are capable of entering that category. We are not in that category just yet, and would not have been even if the other middling moves had been made. We will enter that category if certain growth in certain players takes place this year.

Do I have evidence for that? Of course not. It's an opinion. I share opinions. We all share opinions. Occasionally, someone on here tries to make a point with a presumed fact and is called out by someone else with the actual fact. The vast majority of the time it's opinion-giving. I don't have a problem with that. That's what a board like this is for -- for speculating and speechifying. I don't think I've ever come across a post on this board or any other of the team forums that "proved" anything, but from time to time I have read something that amused me or gave me a fresh perspective on some player or team or made me think about an aspect of the game in a new way.

[montestewart]

Yes, it is evidence. Look up the word. Or maybe you're one of those that think evidence, proof, certainty, etc. all pretty much mean the same thing.

[payitforward]

It's like listening to Paul Ryan. You're pointed, but you don't deal with the essential point. That your plan to add Landry Fields and other marginal players is not better than what was done this summer. Just different. And, I would argue, worse. Cheaper, yes -- and that's not insignificant. But we'll never know if your less effective but cheaper option is better. Which means you never have to defend it.

Sigh...

First off, if you want to compare me to someone feel free -- but not to Paul Ryan. That makes you look to much like Mitt Romney, able to take any position on any subject if you think it'll make you look good for the next 1/2 hour.

2dly, no... Fields is not a "marginal player", he's a gifted young player w/ a big future. You might remember Zards mocking him a day ago? In comparison w/ Martell Webster no less. Loving Webster's 3pt % for example.

Take a look at this, why don't you. http://bit.ly/SWmU3U

I chose the season where Martell had his best 3pt %, and I included Trevor Ariza, since he is the presumed alternative to young Landry Fields.

Nah, why get guys like these when we pay twice as much for a past-his-prime journeyman who....

Oh -- it's boring to have conversations like this! Lets just have the best season we can muster!

[hands11]

It's like listening to Paul Ryan. You're pointed, but you don't deal with the essential point. That your plan to add Landry Fields and other marginal players is not better than what was done this summer. Just different. And, I would argue, worse. Cheaper, yes -- and that's not insignificant. But we'll never know if your less effective but cheaper option is better. Which means you never have to defend it.

Sigh...

First off, if you want to compare me to someone feel free -- but not to Paul Ryan. That makes you look to much like Mitt Romney, able to take any position on any subject if you think it'll make you look good for the next 1/2 hour.

2dly, no... Fields is not a "marginal player", he's a gifted young player w/ a big future. You might remember Zards mocking him a day ago? In comparison w/ Martell Webster no less. Loving Webster's 3pt % for example.

Take a look at this, why don't you. http://bit.ly/SWmU3U

I chose the season where Martell had his best 3pt %, and I included Trevor Ariza, since he is the presumed alternative to young Landry Fields.

Nah, why get guys like these when we pay twice as much for a past-his-prime journeyman who....

Oh -- it's boring to have conversations like this! Lets just have the best season we can muster!

You make a good argument for Webster being a steal. Thanks for the info

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I wonder how Ted and Ernie Grunfeld felt watching Blatche get 16 and 8 against the Wizards.

I am watching Blatche against the Celtics in preseason. Blatche is going to be the M.I.A.P.

The Most Improved Amnestied Player is otherwise known as the Ernie Grunfeld Award.

[montestewart]

I wonder how Ted and Ernie Grunfeld felt watching Blatche get 16 and 8 against the Wizards.

I am watching Blatche against the Celtics in preseason. Blatche is going to be the M.I.A.P.

The Most Improved Amnestied Player is otherwise known as the Ernie Grunfeld Award.

Who has Grunfeld amnestied in the past, if anyone?

[tontoz]

Evidence? You mean trot out statistics from prior years' performance? That's not evidence. 

Stats help us to predict what might happen, yes. But that's not the same as saying with certainty. And the history of sport is rife with who flourish in new systems. 

...

It is impossible to say with any certainty who is right with regard to the Okafor/Ariza trade, but that doesn't stop many on here from trying. Where's the cry for evidence there?

We'll never know what might have happened had these other middling trades/signings taken place, and yet so many feel so certain that their path is irrefutable.

These comments are pretty funny coming from the guy who said this.

Having cap space would not have brought us a core piece.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I wonder how Ted and Ernie Grunfeld felt watching Blatche get 16 and 8 against the Wizards.

I am watching Blatche against the Celtics in preseason. Blatche is going to be the M.I.A.P.

The Most Improved Amnestied Player is otherwise known as the Ernie Grunfeld Award.

Who has Grunfeld amnestied in the past, if anyone?

Technically, there will only be 1 amnestied player. Other teams and GMs have amnestied players. Brendan Haywood, Darko Milicic, Josh Childress, Gilbert Arenas come to mind.

monte, semantically I know it doesn't make sense to call it the EG award, but I'm hating as strong as I can. No other amnestied player, except PERHAPS Haywood, will help his team more this season.

[montestewart]

I wonder how Ted and Ernie Grunfeld felt watching Blatche get 16 and 8 against the Wizards.

I am watching Blatche against the Celtics in preseason. Blatche is going to be the M.I.A.P.

The Most Improved Amnestied Player is otherwise known as the Ernie Grunfeld Award.

Who has Grunfeld amnestied in the past, if anyone?

Technically, there will only be 1 amnestied player. Other teams and GMs have amnestied players. Brendan Haywood, Darko Milicic, Josh Childress, Gilbert Arenas come to mind.

monte, semantically I know it doesn't make sense to call it the EG award, but I'm hating as strong as I can. No other amnestied player, except PERHAPS Haywood, will help his team more this season.

I was thinking maybe he had amnestied someone back in 2005 (or whichever year the first amnesty was permitted) that I forgot about. I know you have that steel trap memory.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

monte, I astonished by the things I remember. Doesn't make a bit of sense to me at times what my mind does retain.

[nate33]

monte, semantically I know it doesn't make sense to call it the EG award, but I'm hating as strong as I can. No other amnestied player, except PERHAPS Haywood, will help his team more this season.

Wasn't Elton Brand amnestied?

[payitforward]

monte, semantically I know it doesn't make sense to call it the EG award, but I'm hating as strong as I can. No other amnestied player, except PERHAPS Haywood, will help his team more this season.

Wasn't Elton Brand amnestied?

Yes, but he won't be eligible for most *improved*....

[hands11]

So was your position that they should not have amnestied Dray ?

Hell, even someone like me who was as patient as possible with Dray and held out hope that he would get it done last year, finally had to concede that it was time to move him. I had so much more hope for him here. All he needed to do was focus and get in amazing shape. He didn't do that.

There was just no recovering from him not showing up in peek shape at the beginning of last season. Nothing could have been more obvious regarding what he needed to do and the opportunity that was there for him. He was no kid anymore. He had the starting slot. They had extended him. They made the commitment. Last year was Dray's golden opportunity to step it up. He was even made a captain at one point. And he failed to deliver. Actually he failed miserably. It was so bad they couldn't even find a trade partner.

I have several theories as to how this would happen given what he needed to do was so obvious.

At my most clinical, I think Gil was whispering in his ear telling him to get out of DC. Actually we pretty much know Gil was doing that. Gil told him he would be the next scape goat. Question is, what was the plan ? I think it was pretty much a certainty that if he was amnestied, someone was going to give him another chance. Dray at 6-11 26 years old and with the talent he has shown when in shape is a player that would land some place. That way he gets paid his current contract, plus the new money on a one year contract, plus he gets to leave. So then you go get in shape, play well and get even another new contract worth even more next year. There was pretty much no downside risk to planning his exit. He was going to make 24M either way. Seeing as he is in better shape and wearing the agent zero 0, there are Gils finger prints all over this.

Dray is making 7 to 8.5M plus this years money from Brooklyn.

If he plays solid this year and becomes a UFA, someone is going to give him a min of 3M a year. So next year he would be really making 10.5M. Not bad for a back up. Dray is going to play the next 3 years and he is going to make a min of 7-8M plus whatever anyone pay him for any of those next 3 years.

If I wanted out, that would be a good plan to do it. More money and a fresh start.

I have no problem with the Wiz extending Dray back when they did. Even how they did it was smart because they fronted the contract one year. They took a chance which you have to do sometimes. Specially when you are reaching for talent. So they took a chance and lost. So they cut their loses and are moving on.

All the cards were really in Drays hand. Amnesting him was the right move regardless of what he does some place else because he wasn't going to get it done here. Not after last year and the booing. Not after not showing up in shape. The Wiz have moved on.

The Gil era is officially over. There are no longer any lingering finger prints. The crime scene has been totally cleaned. The computer has a new operating system and has been freshly rebooted. Time to move forward.

This is now the Wall/Beal Era. And if we are lucky and Nene gets healthy, it will be the Wall/Beal/Nene era for the near term future. Wall/Beal/Nene is a solid core 3. Personally I have more faith in that core then the Gil/CB/AJ core. Point is, the page has been turned and it is a new era for the Wizards.

Wall/Beal/Nene Ted/EG/Randy vs Gil/CB/AJ Abe/EG/EFG

I have way more trust and hope in that first group then the second.