Official Trade Thread XVIII: 1/20/12 - 5/14/12

[llcc25]

On double digits, we're on. He's going to score more than 10. The over and under should be 13 points!

CCJ- Ok sounds good. 13 pts it is. Good luck! I can already taste that Cajun ribeye : )

I love ribeye steak. It is my favorite. Medium rare with southwest chipotle seasoning or with just good old salt and ground pepper. Mmmm good.

llcc25, it is 4:30 in the AM here in Hawaii and I'm hungry now. This steak talk is killing me. Wonder if there's a Mortons here on Oahu, for that steak you'll be paying for?

Haha. Just checked and there is one in Honolulu but not Oahu.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Dude, you have made my day. Honolulu is the largest city on the island of ... Oahu.

My birthday was yesterday. Felt like going to a restaurant but ended up going cheap and putting a pizza in the oven. Got tired out there trying to show my sons some things on the basketball court. (Operative word: trying). Just didn't feel like doing anything but resting. They say pimpin' ain't easy and I say neither is being an old dad!

This weekend, I'm going to Mortons!

[Ruzious]

Take 5 years of wear and tear off of Gasol, and then it would make sense for the Wiz to want to trade for him. As is, it'd be like the Bullets trading for a soon to be well past his prime Moses Malone. What is it that they say about folks who don't learn from history?

Just sign Tim Duncan.

Ruz, your comparison is excellent IMO. When he was traded to the Wizards in 1986, Malone was 31 years old. Same age Pau is now. His numbers were similar to Pau's in terms of PER and WS/48.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nmo01.html

All Malone did was take the team to the playoffs twice in two seasons; make the all star team twice; and Moses Malone finished top-10 in points, rebounds, PER, and WS in 1986-1987. In 1987-1988, his stats fell off after the team added Bernard King and when Terry Catledge got a lot better on the boards. Moses played well, however.

As for the Wizards team that went to the playoffs in 1986 because of Moses, check the roster yourself.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WSB/1987.html

That team got swept in round one by:

HOFers Adrian Dantley, Isaih Thomas, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman and some other guys named Bill Laimbeer (a C who could hit threes and neutralize Moses by taking him from the basket), Rick Mahorn (who could beat on Moses), John Salley, Vinnie Johnson, and Sidney Green. Also, the Wizards were coached by Kevin Loughery and the Pistons were coached by the late, HOF coach, Chuck Daly. Those guys beat the Wizards, who had (only) the great Moses Malone.

Hindsight is 20/20 and facts are facts. Sometimes perception gets cloudy, however. The truth is the Wizards went as far as Moses could take them. Jeff Malone's playoff PER was 5.8.

The next season, 1987-1988, was "past prime" Moses Malone's last as a Bullet. Moses took Washington to the playoffs the second time in the only two times he was a Bullet.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WSB/1988.html

Only that season they faced the Pistons, and lost 3-2 in the playoffs. Same team with all those HOFers and a better Rodman. Washington came within an elimination game of defeating those HOFers. That was all poor old Moses could do for Washington. They traded him to the Hawks for Dan Roundfield and have SUCKED ever since then. Washington got bad AFTER Moses was traded away.

BOTTOM LINE: Come on, Ruz. This crushes your argument that getting Moses he was over-the-hill. Pau is not over the hill and neither was Malone when he was a Bullet.

What I learned is history is often HIS STORY. Depends on who's telling it and from whatever agenda they're pushing. I was a math major because I didn't like rhetoric or opinion determining my grade. History and English--that stuff seemed highly subjective. ESPN has a show called "The Numbers Never Lie".

My lesson learned from your example is Moses was just unfortunate to come to Washington and to have to face the Pistons in the playoffs. He was still good but the players who beat him in the playoffs had a way better team and coach.

Everybody, I'm just trying to dispense wisdom. I am not wrong this time. The Celtics got better trading for older players very recently. Pau lifted the Lakers and he'd do the same for the Wizards because he's still got 2-3 years at this level of play. Pau would not come to a terrible, old, team and my trade idea would get 1st rounder(s) with Pau. You guys need to look at it closely before you dismiss my idea.

CCJ, what I learned from what you said is that you'd be happy with mortgaging the future for 2-3 years of mediocrity.

[Ruzious]

Dude, you have made my day. Honolulu is the largest city on the island of ... Oahu.

My birthday was yesterday. Felt like going to a restaurant but ended up going cheap and putting a pizza in the oven. Got tired out there trying to show my sons some things on the basketball court. (Operative word: trying). Just didn't feel like doing anything but resting. They say pimpin' ain't easy and I say neither is being an old dad!

This weekend, I'm going to Mortons!

Enjoy both of your steak dinners.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, what I learned from what you said is that you'd be happy with mortgaging the future for 2-3 years of mediocrity.

What I said was Pau would come with two additional 1st round picks and a loss of two bad contracts, Blatche and Lewis. What I didn't mention was the Wizards would still have this season's lottery pick with that. Ruz, if you think that a team full of 23-25 year old players, multiple draft picks, and Pau has no future, I strongly disagree.

It's not like the team wouldn't still be able to retain McGee, Young, and add a FA with the MONEY SAVED. Guys like Vesely, Booker, Seraphin, and Mack would still have years on their rookie deals.

IMO you're flat wrong to say the team would have only 2-3 years because the team would have more tradeable assets and a better record. I'm going to let this go now, because I'm at at point where my thinking is outside of what you and others want to hear.

[Benjammin]

Why for Boston

They're clearly going to go in another direction after this season as both Allen and Garnett's contracts expire. They also have no inside presence. In this trade, they get Shard's contract which they can use the amnesty rule on and JaVale who would be their inside cornerstone.

Rondo
Allen
Lewis
Garnett
McGee

I believe Boston would not be able to amnesty Lewis. You cannot trade for a player and amnesty him. But they could certainly use his buy-out provision.

As for the trade itself, I'm not as concerned with Pau's age as his possible attitude going from the Lakers to the Wizards.

[Ruzious]

CCJ, what I learned from what you said is that you'd be happy with mortgaging the future for 2-3 years of mediocrity.

Perception is reality for some.

I have facilitated college courses. I have led classes with every grade K through 12. I've also spent a lot of time with special needs students. Everyone's not on the same level.

What I said was Pau would come with two additional 1st round picks and a loss of two bad contracts, Blatche and Lewis. What I didn't mention was the Wizards would still have this season's lottery pick with that.

Ruz, if you think that a team full of 23-25 year players, multiple draft picks, and Pau has no future I can't shed any more light on that. It's not like the team wouldn't still be able to retain McGee, Young, and add a FA with the MONEY SAVED. Guys like Vesely, Booker, Seraphin, and Mack would still have years on their rookie deals.

IMO you're flat wrong to say the team would have only 2-3 years because the team would have more tradeable assets and a better record. Don't know what else I can say, but we'll disagree on this.

Those 2 draft choices aren't worth the ribeye steak at sizzlers, and there's not even one starting caliber player among the young players you're talking about.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ben, I didn't comment on miller's deal with that in mind. I love it for the Wizards and can see the Lakers liking it. However, Boston can get more for Pierce than Javale, who they'd have to pay. They can just let Jermaine's deal expire, too.

I am not concerned with Pau's attitude leaving the Lakers. Mike Brown looks a lot like Mr. Potato Head. Remember when John Goodman played Fred Flintstone? Terrible movie, but that guy looked the part. Same as when Robin Williams played Popeye and Shelley Duval was Olive. Not much makeup required. I digress.... Pau is probably sick of the Lakers struggling to score 100 points and Bynum becoming the man in the post. All the blame goes to Pau.

I think Gasol coming to the Wizards would be just the right thing for him. He'd probably be really down and first, but Washington's guys would LOVE him. You don't think Vesely would respect Pau? McGee can learn so much from the guy. Personally, I'd love a trade that keeps Wall and gets Pau, but I can't see one that is fair to LAL. They want a PG.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, what I learned from what you said is that you'd be happy with mortgaging the future for 2-3 years of mediocrity.

Perception is reality for some.

I have facilitated college courses. I have led classes with every grade K through 12. I've also spent a lot of time with special needs students. Everyone's not on the same level.

What I said was Pau would come with two additional 1st round picks and a loss of two bad contracts, Blatche and Lewis. What I didn't mention was the Wizards would still have this season's lottery pick with that.

Ruz, if you think that a team full of 23-25 year players, multiple draft picks, and Pau has no future I can't shed any more light on that. It's not like the team wouldn't still be able to retain McGee, Young, and add a FA with the MONEY SAVED. Guys like Vesely, Booker, Seraphin, and Mack would still have years on their rookie deals.

IMO you're flat wrong to say the team would have only 2-3 years because the team would have more tradeable assets and a better record. Don't know what else I can say, but we'll disagree on this.

Those 2 draft choices aren't worth the ribeye steak at sizzlers, and there's not even one starting caliber player among the young players you're talking about.

Dang it! I tried to edit that before you responded. I want to tone down my self-righteous arrogance, Ruz. Sorry.

The first draft choice this year from mid round one could be great. You didn't think Brooks would be a starter like I thought. This year's draft is better than last and I like a lot of guys in the middle to late round one.

Sizzlers can really put out the worst steaks. I feel you there. No, actually IHOP and Dennys make the worst steaks on earth. I'll take a McDonald's mystery meat, very tiny burger ahead of the "steak" at Dennys or IHOP....

[Ruzious]

Oh golly gee, CCJ. Were you being a tad obnoxious there? I hadn't noticed.

[miller31time]

Why for Boston

They're clearly going to go in another direction after this season as both Allen and Garnett's contracts expire. They also have no inside presence. In this trade, they get Shard's contract which they can use the amnesty rule on and JaVale who would be their inside cornerstone.

Rondo
Allen
Lewis
Garnett
McGee

I believe Boston would not be able to amnesty Lewis. You cannot trade for a player and amnesty him. But they could certainly use his buy-out provision.

As for the trade itself, I'm not as concerned with Pau's age as his possible attitude going from the Lakers to the Wizards.

Good point (about the non-use of the amnesty) but yes, there is still the buy-out provision you mentioned.

As to his attitude, I'd lean more with CCJ in that Pau just wants to feel like he's needed right now. He's been the scapegoat in LA where the lights are brighter than almost anywhere else. A change of scenery and the potential to take a bottom-feeding team and transform them into a competent basketball team seems pretty enticing, in my opinion.

And @ Ruzious -- I think it really all depends on what you see this team is, as currently constructed. Are we a young, up-and-coming squad with potential talent brimming from top to bottom? Or are we John Wall and a bunch of headcases?

I'm going with option 2, so if we can bring in a player like Pau who is the anti-Wizard, and all we have to give up is a center who may or may not turn out to be anything a team can build on, I'm doing it.

This team needs basketball players, not spoiled, little kids on pogo sticks.

And I'll tell you what else trading potential for actual talent does -- makes other talented players actually consider us in their free-agent endeavors.

We could possibly end up with this after the draft and free agency....

Wall
Gordon
World Peace/Singleton
Davis
Gasol

[jivelikenice]

CCJ, what I learned from what you said is that you'd be happy with mortgaging the future for 2-3 years of mediocrity.

What I said was Pau would come with two additional 1st round picks and a loss of two bad contracts, Blatche and Lewis. What I didn't mention was the Wizards would still have this season's lottery pick with that. Ruz, if you think that a team full of 23-25 year old players, multiple draft picks, and Pau has no future, I strongly disagree.

It's not like the team wouldn't still be able to retain McGee, Young, and add a FA with the MONEY SAVED. Guys like Vesely, Booker, Seraphin, and Mack would still have years on their rookie deals.

IMO you're flat wrong to say the team would have only 2-3 years because the team would have more tradeable assets and a better record. I'm going to let this go now, because I'm at at point where my thinking is outside of what you and others want to hear.

CCJ, you're overvaluing the salary dumps especially with the availability of the amnestly clause as well as Rashard's buy-out. And what good use is all this cap space in reality? We had a ton of cap space after dumping Jamison/ Butler/ etc... and got the #1 pick. Sure we got Hinrich on a rental and picked up a mid 1st rounder with that space, but it didn't make us a player in free agency. In hindsight, we should have executed one of the salary dumps and kept a Jamison around to help mentor the young guys, much like he's doing in Cleveland. We didn't do anything with the space anyways so why not?

[Illuminaire]

Exactly, Jive.

The picks are barely better than what tends to be available for cap space or a few million in cash considerations some years. We are NOT getting impact players with the Laker's draft picks.

The cap space isn't all that useful, since we could clear 2/3s of it even without the trade.

Pau is a very good player who probably would take us to the playoffs, where teams with superior talent would steal our lunch money and send us packing.

Turn back from the pathway of mediocrity, CCJ! Cast your eyes not upon the tainted fruit of the first round exit!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, what I learned from what you said is that you'd be happy with mortgaging the future for 2-3 years of mediocrity.

What I said was Pau would come with two additional 1st round picks and a loss of two bad contracts, Blatche and Lewis. What I didn't mention was the Wizards would still have this season's lottery pick with that. Ruz, if you think that a team full of 23-25 year old players, multiple draft picks, and Pau has no future, I strongly disagree.

It's not like the team wouldn't still be able to retain McGee, Young, and add a FA with the MONEY SAVED. Guys like Vesely, Booker, Seraphin, and Mack would still have years on their rookie deals.

IMO you're flat wrong to say the team would have only 2-3 years because the team would have more tradeable assets and a better record. I'm going to let this go now, because I'm at at point where my thinking is outside of what you and others want to hear.

CCJ, you're overvaluing the salary dumps especially with the availability of the amnestly clause as well as Rashard's buy-out. And what good use is all this cap space in reality? We had a ton of cap space after dumping Jamison/ Butler/ etc... and got the #1 pick. Sure we got Hinrich on a rental and picked up a mid 1st rounder with that space, but it didn't make us a player in free agency. In hindsight, we should have executed one of the salary dumps and kept a Jamison around to help mentor the young guys, much like he's doing in Cleveland. We didn't do anything with the space anyways so why not?

jivelikenice, you're right on the salary. Rashard's buy would be better than a bad deal like Artest's and Gasol would be making around $18Mil plus. As far as salary cap space, I think the real trick in using salary is to spend it on the Caron's when they are on the way up.

Here's a link to 2012 FAs by position. http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-nba-free-agents

Suppose a deal like the one I proposed got Gasol.

If you didn't like Blake at PG, among the unrestricted PGs are: Steve Nash, Kirk Hinrich, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Jason Terry, Randy Foye, Goran Dragic, Keyon Dooling, John Lucas III, A.J. Price, and Baron Davis. Also FAs but not unrestricted include Mo Williams, Jordan Farmar, Greivis Vasquez, Beno Udrih, and Ramon Sessions.

You think John Wall is going to outperform every single one of those guys over the next 2 years?

And remember, you'd still have the option of drafting Damian Lillard, Kendall Marshall, Scott Machado, etc. What you could do is probably get Mo Williams and have a better-than-average PG to run with Pau, the young guys already on the team, the lotto pick, and the two future firsts.

Don't like that? Get Ray Allen to start at SG if you need a shooter. Sign him for 1yr to play with Pau and to bring young guys along. Him and Hinrich. Some other shooters like Chase Budinger and Anthony Tolliver are unrestricted FAs. SO IS ANTAWN JAMISON.

Mediocrity is in you guys minds, but my point in using the word is first a team has to reach 8th seed status. Might stay in the 40-50 win range 2 years. But the young guys get better and better and the quality of the FAs attracted to the team does, too.

If you took Wall and the same dudes the Wizards have right now, and just added Allen at SG and Ryan Anderson at PF; you would have a 45-50 win team. Hey, maybe I should stop proposing trade ideas.

[Illuminaire]

If you didn't like Blake at PG, among the unrestricted PGs are: Steve Nash, Kirk Hinrich, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Jason Terry, Randy Goran Dragic, Foye, Keyon Dooling, John Lucas III, A.J. Price, and Baron Davis. Also FAs but not unrestricted include Mo Williams, Jordan Farmar, Greivis Vasquez, Beno Udrih, and Ramon Sessions.

You think John Wall is going to outperform every single one of those guys over the next 2 years?

Hell yes. Steve Nash will definitely outperform him offensively but Wall will crush Nash on defense. Also, Steve isn't coming to DC, he's going to end with a true contender. Everyone else you listed is either a backup quality PG, waaay over the hill veteran, or an undersized SG.

What you could do is probably get Mo Williams and have a better-than-average PG to run with Pau, the young guys already on the team, the lotto pick, and the two future firsts.

Mo Williams is a better than average PG? Seriously? Mo is a decent player, but he's a combo guard through and through. I'd love to have him as a third guard off the bench, but he's too small to play SG and he's never been good at actually running at team as PG. Career averages of 5.9As/36 do not inspire me, sorry.

[Illuminaire]

Mediocrity is in you guys minds, but my point in using the word is first a team has to reach 8th seed status. Might stay in the 40-50 win range 2 years. But the young guys get better and better and the quality of the FAs attracted to the team does, too.

Not if a) the veterans are no longer performing at a high level and b) you've capped yourself out so you can't get those free agents.

And let's be real. FA's are more attracted to location than to winning, except for the mid-level ring chasing veteran types. And those guys will only go where elite talent is.

[no D in Hibachi]

We can kill any hopes we had of sending Blatche for Mo Williams. Kenyon Martin signed with them for $2.5M.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

We can kill any hopes we had of sending Blatche for Mo Williams. Kenyon Martin signed with them for $2.5M.

Heat wanted Martin and IMO could really use Blatche. Andray on South Beach ... Lap dance every day, not just Tuesday.

And when not indulging in wine, women and song, he and Eddy Curry can get down with some pressed Cuban sandwiches. This is the kind of meal Andray Blatche could eat every day down in Miami.




(I had a great time in Miami back in the day. Greatest tour guide ever was this dude named Benito. Treated me and my ex like we were royalty. We saw all kinds of attractions by every means. Bus, rail, walking distance. Got cheap EVERYTHING, cuz Benito was practically homeless but everybody down there loved him and treated him like he was the mayor. Great dude who was disabled and had been a soldier once upon a time.)

My mission is to send more Wizards to future championship teams. Felt good seeing Brendan, Caron, and DeShawn get rings over Lebron's team. Darn right I'd send Wall to the Lakers for Pau. I don't mind a deal that sends Blatche to the Heat or to the Celtics. Why not if they'd have him. Javale needs to go to Minnesota, where Ricky Rubio would pass him the ball in position to finish.

Guy's I'm having too much fun.

To end with a serious thought, the easiest team to trade Blatche to would probably be the Dallas Mavericks. Terry will be a UFA. Cuban liked the last guys the Wizards sent his way. He's tired of Brendan Haywood by now. The Wizards could probably throw max money at Ryan Anderson and trade Blatche for Haywood. Maybe?

[nate33]

The Wizards are reportedly trying to trade Blatche for Tim Thomas:

he Wizards have been working hard to move disappointing forward Andray Blatche, but a calf injury expected to sideline the favorite target of D.C. boobirds for three to five weeks won't make it any easier.

Sources close to the situation say that the Wizards had been trying to engage Charlotte on a Blatche-for-Tyrus Thomas swap.

The Wizards would naturally prefer Boris Diaw and his expiring contract -- with the bonus of knowing that Diaw's passing eye could only give the wild Wiz a much-needed boost to their basketball IQ -- but the ever-thrifty Bobcats aren't about to take on the remaining three years (worth nearly $23 million) on Blatche's contract if Thomas' similarly hefty deal isn't headed the other way.

link

[sashae]

If I had to guess Anthony Davis' rookie line, I'd guess 16 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks right off the top.

Quoted for posterity. Just so's you know, there have been a total of 9 player-seasons in NBA history where a player averaged 15.9ppg or better, 10.9rpg or better, 3.9bpg or better.

Those players?

Code: Select all

                                                                         
                                          Tota    Per                       
Rk                 Player  Season Age  Tm    G GS   MP  TRB AST STL BLK  PTS
1    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 1975-76  28 LAL   82    41.2 16.9 5.0 1.5 4.1 27.7
2         David Robinson* 1990-91  25 SAS   82 81 37.7 13.0 2.5 1.5 3.9 25.6
3        Hakeem Olajuwon* 1992-93  30 HOU   82 82 39.5 13.0 3.5 1.8 4.2 26.1
4    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 1978-79  31 LAL   80    39.5 12.8 5.4 1.0 4.0 23.8
5         David Robinson* 1991-92  26 SAS   68 68 37.7 12.2 2.7 2.3 4.5 23.2
6        Hakeem Olajuwon* 1989-90  27 HOU   82 82 38.1 14.0 2.9 2.1 4.6 24.3
7        Hakeem Olajuwon* 1991-92  29 HOU   70 69 37.7 12.1 2.2 1.8 4.3 21.6
8        Hakeem Olajuwon* 1990-91  28 HOU   56 50 36.8 13.8 2.3 2.2 3.9 21.2
9         Alonzo Mourning 1998-99  28 MIA   46 46 38.1 11.0 1.6 0.7 3.9 20.1


I mean, SERIOUSLY?