Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

[hands11]

And on my second point, look at my list of good bigs again. All of them were drafted in the top 8. I can't even think of a high quality 2-way big that was taken outside of the top 8. The best I can come up with is Ibaka, who is really only a role player on offense. Maybe you count Bynum, but he took 6 years to groom and really only dominated for short spurts over two seasons.

Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Josh Smith, Noah, Brook Lopez, Bynum were picked out of the top 10. If players like Ibaka, Larry Sanders, Gortat, Asik count them too. Furthermore the fact that Tyson Chandler, Nene, Pau. Dwight are not on the teams that drafted them sort of removes them from the "have to get them by picking top 8" discussion

Thank you. That is what I said.

[hands11]

Hands, what's your draft board this year?

I have posted in many times for a long time and little has change expect the board turning me onto Burke who I like. And as later picks, I have been turned onto Snaer and McDermott.

I admit, again, I do not know enough about Noel. Him being injured isn't helping that.

I like Victor, Otto, Burke, CJ McCollum, and for a late C pick pick Withey.

I would not use a top 1 or 2 in this draft. I wouldn't waste the money on that pick.

Give me one of Victor, Otto, Burke at 3 and I'm happy. I wouldn't use the #1 on any one of them, I would use it to get more picks for depth if I could.

Border line pick for me at 5 or so would be McLemore though I haven't seen enough to know he has the heart to be a top dog. And with Beal already, why bother.

[AFM]

No need to get testy handsy. I think it would be a good idea for every member to post their draft board so we can look back on it in a few years as we ALWAYS do on this board.

[mhd]

Hmm, On the trade board, there was a post about Minny trading their pick. Say the following happens and the Wiz land the #3 pick and Noel and Porter go 1 and 2 and are off the board. Minny wants Mclemore and has the #8 pick.

Would a pick swap and a Vesely for Williams swap be feasible? At that point, I don't see much of a difference between #3 and #8. Lets say the draft unfolds like this:

1) Bobcats-Noel
2) Hornets (say they leapfrog)-Porter (great fit there)
3) Minny (from Wiz)-Mclemore
4) Orlando-Smart (they slip in the lotto draw)
5) Kings-Olapido
6) Suns-Shabaaz
7) Cavs-Zeller
8) Wiz (from Minny)-Bennett

I kind of like that outcome to be perfectly honest. The west get two new young bigs to work with in Williams (stretch 4) and Bennett (ditto). They roll next season with:

PG: Wall/(Price or equivalent backup type PG)/Temple
SG: Beal/Webster/Temple
SF: Webster/Ariza
PF: Nene/Williams/Bennett
C: Emeka/Nene/Seraphin


I'd try and trade Seraphin+Booker+Singleton+late 2nd to move up and grab a wing like Reggie Bulluck or try and get a young PG like Kabongo or Burke.

[pancakes3]

In that highly unlikely situation, sure. Getting any semblance of talent for Vesely would be great and at 8 we can still take Len instead of Bennett.

[Ruzious]

I have to cheat and look at my January 9th post for guidance.

My feeling right now on the draft is that there are 7 elite players - in order of quality:
1. Nerlens Noel - tremendous athlete and very fluid with the ball - in spite of the criticisms of his offensive game. He's not Anthony Davis - because he doesn't have Davis' amazing BBIQ, but he is a legit #1 #1. He has the frame to fill out - and strength should eventually be a plus - rather than the negative it is now. Easily the #1 pick in my view.
2. Trey Burke - I know - most have him around #20, but this guy really is worthy of the #2 pick. He is the total package as a PG, and he does whatever he wants to do - and he wants to do whatever his team needs to win. He's short, but so is Chris Paul - and he's got solid length and good strength. He's got that tremendous balance that Paul and Tony Parker have.
3. Marcus Smart - Totally different type of PG than Burke. He's more of a hybrid guard in the style that Dwayne Wade was early in his career. Physcially imposing - even intimidating - which is amazing for an 18 year old frosh. A pure leader - which really sticks out on the court. He's still working on his shot, but it's improving. He was supposedly more of a 2 in HS, so he's still learning the PG position, but in the NBA - he'll probably be a Wade-style hybrid/tweener in a good way.
4. Shabazz Muhammad - As pure a scorer as I've seen come to college in years. Looks almost insanely motivated to get the ball in the basket. Still does it in the framework of the offense - not bogging down the offense with 1 on 1 nonsense. But to move up in my rankings, he has to show he can do more than score. So far, I don't think he has.
5. Cody Zeller - Tremendous offensive center and rebounds adequately. Competes hard. He's stronger than given credit for and will be thicker than his brother. His lack of length is an issue.
6. Ben McLemore - Really good all-around 2 with no weaknesses. Has Beal's game but is a little more talented.
7. Alex Len - He's below Zeller, because he's thinner, and he's not as consistently assertive. Being assertive seems to come naturally for Zeller; I don't think it does with Len on a consistent basis.

Players that I like for the 2nd round that I don't think people here have mentioned (pardons if they have):
1. Phil Pressey - my favorite college player to watch. I think he'll slip because of his lack o size. Perfect as a backup PG to run the other team into submission for spurts o minutes. And a phenominal passer. His shooting is inconsistent, but he does have 3 point range. He will be a crowd favorite.
2. Victor Olapido - Zeller's teammate reminds of Aaron Afflalo - physically tough big 2 who does everything well.
3. Kelly Olynyk - late blooming 7 footer with tremendous scoring ability. But pretty much all other parts of his game need a lot of work.
4. Mike Muscalla - doesn't even come close to passing the eye test, but he's a 6'11 240 lber who's super-productive and super efficient at Bucknell. Hook him up with a top personal trainer and eventually you might have a David Lee type player.
5. Travis Releford - McLemore's teammate was strictly a defensive specialist his 1st 3 years. Finally, he got the green light to shoot this season, and he hasn't missed many. He's still not even listed as worthy of being drafted by any mocks I've seen, but he's a spot-up shooter and a 6'6 210 lb outstanding defender. He will play in the NBA.
6. Seth Curry - also not listed as worthy of being drafted, because he's a small skinny guard, but play him with a big PG iike Wall, and he could be very effective. He's got the shooting gene just like bro Steph.

Since there are 30 teams, I'll rank my top 30 players, though I'm sure I'll forget someone:
1. Nerlens Noel
2. Cody Zeller
3. Trey Burke
4. Marcus Smart
5. Otto Porter
6. Victor Olapido
7. Ben McLemore
8. Anthony Bennett
9. Shabazz Muhammad
10. Myck Kabongo
11. Shane Larkin
12. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
13. CJ McCollum
14. Ryan Kelly
15. Alex Len
16. Mason Plumlee
17. Kelly Olynyk
18. Archie Goodwin
19. Willie Cauley-Stein
20. Jeff Withey
21. Michael Carter-Williams
22. Rudy Gobert ?
23. Dario Saric ?
24. Jordan Adams
25. Gary Harris
26. Seth Curry
27. Phil Pressey
28. Richard Howell
29. Cory Jefferson
30. Travis Releford

[stevemcqueen1]

Ruzious, you and many others are bullish on Trey Burke. I've seen a frequent CP3 comparison. And if Burke had CP3's upside in him, I could certainly understand being that high on him. But I don't see him being projected that high most places, not sure he has the kind of pedigree CP3 had. CP3 was the fourth overall pick his year.

Perhaps a better comparison could be Jameer Nelson? Nelson was the 20th pick his year. Short PG with a very similar build and similar level of athleticism; very skilled; both more scoring oriented; both had tremendous individual and team success at the college level.

Nelson made an AS game and was pretty good in his mid 20s and he was the starting PG for a finals team. He was outstanding value for where he was picked. But he'd have been a disappointment as an early lotto pick. I could see Burke's career following a similar path.

[AFM]

Imagine the John Wall Shabazz Muhammad Dunk Team
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfD20VzzrE[/youtube]

We could change our name to the Washington Mixtape Tour

[Ruzious]

Ruzious, you and many others are bullish on Trey Burke. I've seen a frequent CP3 comparison. And if Burke had CP3's upside in him, I could certainly understand being that high on him. But I don't see him being projected that high most places, not sure he has the kind of pedigree CP3 had. CP3 was the fourth overall pick his year.

Perhaps a better comparison could be Jameer Nelson? Nelson was the 20th pick his year. Short PG with a very similar build and similar level of athleticism; very skilled; both more scoring oriented; both had tremendous individual and team success at the college level.

Nelson made an AS game and was pretty good in his mid 20s and he was the starting PG for a finals team. He was outstanding value for where he was picked. But he'd have been a disappointment as an early lotto pick. I could see Burke's career following a similar path.

The only thing that CP3 getting picked 4th tells you is that 3 GM's made a mistake.

It also goes without saying that you don't have to be equal to CP3 to be the 3rd best prospect in this draft.

Other than height and position, there's no comparison between Nelson and Burke, imo.

[Wallbeliever]

Looking at the 2013 draft the top player for us should be Nerlens Noel. I am in agreement with several on this board that an exceptional defensive center would be a great fit for this team, especially with Okafor and Nene being in a different age bracket compared our 3 younger building blocks (Wall and Beal) and this years pk.

If Noel is gone when we pick, i think we should look at Porter.

If both Noel and Porter are gone what about McLemore, and Muhammad.

Assuming we land one of those 2 players, is there a belief either McLemore or Muhammad could play SF while picking up almost all the backup SG minutes??

McLemore intrigues me the most, i think he could guard multiple positions, and it seems his shooting/ spot up ability could work well with our team. Muhammad to a lesser degree but he creates shots at a much higher rate.. which is always a plus.

My Top 10

1) Noel
2) Porter
3) McLemore
4) Muhammad
5) Burke
6) Oladipo
7) Bennett
8) Smart
9) Zeller
10)Len

[Nivek]

Trey Burke and Chris Paul have nearly identical scores in YODA for their sophomore seasons. With Burke, I don't have in the physical adjustments, and there's more season to play, of course. Nelson got about the same level in YODA, but not until he was a senior.

[nate33]

McLemore intrigues me the most, i think he could guard multiple positions, and it seems his shooting/ spot up ability could work well with our team. Muhammad to a lesser degree but he creates shots at a much higher rate.. which is always a plus.

Would McLemore really bring any more to the table than Webster? Both are excellent athletes and deadly shooters who have a limited game off the bounce; only Webster is about 2 inches taller and there's no learning curve. I think I'd take Shabazz over McLemore.

That said, if both Noel and Porter are gone, I'd either draft Bennett (depending on his standing reach) or I'd trade the pick. If I traded the pick, my first target would be Kanter. Another option would be to trade our #4 (or so) pick plus our #34 pick for the #8-11 pick plus a 2014 pick. In the 8-11 range, I'd draft Burke.

[Wallbeliever]

McLemore intrigues me the most, i think he could guard multiple positions, and it seems his shooting/ spot up ability could work well with our team. Muhammad to a lesser degree but he creates shots at a much higher rate.. which is always a plus.

Would McLemore really bring any more to the table than Webster? Both are excellent athletes and deadly shooters who have a limited game off the bounce; only Webster is about 2 inches taller and there's no learning curve. I think I'd take Shabazz over McLemore.

That said, if both Noel and Porter are gone, I'd either draft Bennett (depending on his standing reach) or I'd trade the pick. If I traded the pick, my first target would be Kanter. Another option would be to trade our #4 (or so) pick plus our #34 pick for the #8-11 pick plus a 2014 pick. In the 8-11 range, I'd draft Burke.

Webster is close to the same at least at this point in time although McLemore probably has more upside and has yet to show the injury potential of Martell. I think that is a big factor for me.

Curious, why would you lean more towards Shabazz over McLemore? Both are fairly even IMO, i'd go in the other direction but not by much.

[nate33]

Curious, why would you lean more towards Shabazz over McLemore? Both are fairly even IMO, i'd go in the other direction but not by much.

I think they're fairly even too. McLemore is the better shooter and the better team player. Shabazz is the better "scorer" and shot creator but does so in such a way that it doesn't always help his team.

I'd take Shabazz only because he provides a dimension that our team lacks. McLemore seems pretty redundant with Beal and Webster.

[tontoz]

That said, if both Noel and Porter are gone, I'd either draft Bennett (depending on his standing reach)

That is where i am right now. The tank race is critical.

[pancakes3]

That's interesting that the YODA scores were identical. I guess Burke's high fg% boosts him in the calculations to match CP3's absurdly high 3p%. I don't think the Jameer Nelson comparisons are too far off. I don't think there's too wide a gulf between Nelson and a perennial all-star. Just consistency, health, and oddly enough - minutes?

[Ruzious]

I'm not a fan of Nelson's, but looking at his stats, he did have one great season - 2008/2009. Generally, he's struck me as a poor desicion-maker who doesn't play defense, but maybe I've underrated him.

[Dat2U]

I think Burke is a better comparison to Kyrie than Paul or Nelson. His athleticism is probably on par with Kyrie. Neither guy really has jets, they rely more on skill, change of pace moves to get to their spots. Kyrie is slightly bigger and the better shooter, thus the better player. But Burke has grown on me. I'm still debating Burke vs. Smart. Smart is too much like Wall for us to keep both. But Burke & Wall could co-exist because they bring different assets to the table.

[nate33]

Burke & Wall could co-exist because they bring different assets to the table.

Yes. Not only could they co-exist, but they could actually share the floor together. A 3-guard rotation of Wall, Beal and Burke would work just fine thanks to Wall's ability to guard SG's. Wall might actually have some more success scoring against SG's because they won't be as quick on their feet defensively. It's not like Wall uses his height advantage over smaller PG's, so he may as well try to exploit his superior speed advantage over SG's.

I also like the idea of putting some pressure on Wall to improve his game or have his starting spot taken. He'll either get much better and earn that near-max extension, or his free agency value will plummet because his minutes are being taken by a rookie (making him cheaper to resign).

[Halcyon]

I am convinced Burke will be the best player from this draft overall. Noel will probably be the best defensive player, but Burke will be the prize from this draft. I do like the Kyrie comparison, I would say he's a lesser version of Kyrie at this point in time.