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GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13)

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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#341 » by keynote » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:42 am

Illmatic21 wrote:The problem with Wall is that he isn't a good scorer in general. He's already an unnatural, non-intuitive scorer. So when he tries to force the issue he just looks even worse.

Players like CP3, Curry, Irving, Lillard (who has been phenomenal lately) have confidence in their scoring abilities and are cool and collected in the clutch. They trust what they've practiced and let muscle memory take over.

Wall hasn't honed his scoring ability anywhere close to the degree those guys have, he doesn't have the muscle memory to begin with.

I'm trying to think of a comparison for point guards who were very good at running an offense, but NOT good as #1 options late in games. Kidd?


Kidd is the closest comp. Rondo is up there. Mark Jackson, back in the day.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#342 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:42 am

Illmatic21 wrote:The problem with Wall is that he isn't a good scorer in general. He's already an unnatural, non-intuitive scorer. So when he tries to force the issue he just looks even worse.

Players like CP3, Curry, Irving, Lillard (who has been phenomenal lately) have confidence in their scoring abilities and are cool and collected in the clutch. They trust what they've practiced and let muscle memory take over.

Wall hasn't honed his scoring ability anywhere close to the degree those guys have, he doesn't have the muscle memory to begin with.

I'm trying to think of a comparison for point guards who were very good at running an offense, but NOT good as #1 options late in games. Kidd?


Rondo for most his career.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#343 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:44 am

JWizmentality wrote:Remember what clutch was like?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKrcLWSvNrA[/youtube]


How about something that was actually in our reach. I mean on our team.
A player that isn't injured and still playing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x8cOjDtl68[/youtube]
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#344 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:46 am

dandridge 10 wrote:
miller31time wrote:Not going to pin this just on Wall. There's plenty of blame to go around....

- Wall for being incredibly unclutch
- Wittman for being seemingly incapable of drawing up a play
- Marcin Gortat for being a complete and total no-show in the 2nd half
- Ernie Grunfeld for signing Eric Maynor
- Eric Maynor for being Eric Maynor


Agreed. Wall was anti-clutch, but I was actually more disappointed in Gortat. He clearly should have rolled toward the basket on that pass from Ariza and he completely lost Faried behind him to put Denver up by one.

Its a shame about Wall though...he is having pretty good games, but he just can't close.

I guess the bright side is that I really liked Rice's defense. If he could have hit a few shots, he would have had a really good game.

Maynor should never step foot on the court again. I'd rather see my grandmother play ahead of him.


Gortat's momentum was taking him in the opposite direction.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#345 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:47 am

The big problem is the bench is horrible. 5 points from the bench is unacceptable! Right now we don't have a single player on the bench that can create their offense. If our team ever gets healthy then we should be alright. Having Webster, Porter, Al, and Booker or Ves off the bench should be enough get give us over 25 bench points a game.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#346 » by JWizmentality » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:47 am

hands11 wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:Remember what clutch was like?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKrcLWSvNrA[/youtube]


How about something that was actually in our reach. A player that isn't injured and still playing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x8cOjDtl68[/youtube]



Why you gotta rub salt in the wound? You just itching for a fight huh


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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#347 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:48 am

By my count we have 5 bad bad loses (PHIL, @OKC, Cavs, MIL, DEN). We sucked epically as soon as we got up by 12, what we have like 29 points in the second half? I admit John sucked down the stretch but every brilliant stretch he has his sub comes in and ruins our momentum. I mean Nene is important to us but atleast 3 of those bad loses without him (counting the ejection game) we were just playing like fools. This team struggles mightely when their up front on teams; that is one of the most serious things facing this team, which is something that needs to be addressed, but is very fixable. Just keep plugging at it and we'll make progress. Also would like to seeore Porter with Wall, Whitman is butting him in a very tough situation putting him in lineups consisting of himself, Maynor, Singleton, Jan, and Singleton. It'll be alright though everyone, we will be okay.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#348 » by truwizfan4evr » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:48 am

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:The big problem is the bench is horrible. 5 points from the bench is unacceptable! Right now we don't have a single player on the bench that can create their offense. If our team ever gets healthy then we should be alright. Having Webster, Porter, Al, and Booker or Ves off the bench should be enough get give us over 25 bench points a game.

Porter will be good once he get used to the nba game.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#349 » by dandridge 10 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:53 am

Illmatic21 wrote:The problem with Wall is that he isn't a good scorer in general. He's already an unnatural, non-intuitive scorer. So when he tries to force the issue he just looks even worse.

Players like CP3, Curry, Irving, Lillard (who has been phenomenal lately) have confidence in their scoring abilities and are cool and collected in the clutch. They trust what they've practiced and let muscle memory take over.

Wall hasn't honed his scoring ability anywhere close to the degree those guys have, he doesn't have the muscle memory to begin with.

I'm trying to think of a comparison for point guards who were very good at running an offense, but NOT good as #1 options late in games. Kidd?


I agree on Wall, but I do think he has improved a lot so far this year on his scoring ability, especially his ability to hit threes and elbow jumpers. If he continues to improve, he may some day be able to close games out. He just isn't there yet. For now, the Wiz definitely need Beal or Nene in the game to pull off games like tonight.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#350 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:56 am

Wall simply has to take the next step in maturity. He has to keep the offense moving. He has to drive strong, under control and with balance. He just isn't good in that way yet.

Just another example though of how this team misses Crawford. He would help Wall handle the ball and share the scoring pressure. They don't have a player like that. Beal and Webster can shoot, but they don't have handles like Crawford does.

This team has 1 ball handler. Wall. That isn't enough.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#351 » by dlts20 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:56 am

I have 2 comments on Wall. One is that Im not worried about him late in games. 1st off I think he has hit alot of big shots even this year that goes overlooked. He's hit key jumpers with like 2 or 3min up to put us up by 5 and stuff like that. Its the last second shots that he hasnt hit but there are alot of guys who failed alot early until they grew into it more. However, I still like Beal. People dont think he's a one on one guy but I would trust him in the clutch.

2nd is that am I the only one noticing how tired Wall is? I dont even mean at the end. He looks dead with like 5 or 6min left in the 4th of every game. I wish I had gifs on his face. No one on the court looks like that. His face looks different then everyone else. Its like he just played 2 whole games in a row. Its starting to worry me and I think its the biggest reason for his struggles. I think its his style of play and the fact that he's the only ball handler/play maker on the team. He can play 36min but its like 45min to everyone else. Thats how much energy his face looks like he's expending. Its weird
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#352 » by dlts20 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:59 am

also, in regards to the bench, I think people are overrating it. I know there is no excuse and we should be able to field a solid unit no matter how many guys are hurt but the reality is weve had major major major injuries. If we are fully healthy then I love our bench with Webster, Al, Porter, etc. That will be enough to win alot of games. Most likely someone will always be hurt but we can still overcome that rather easily IMO. I think if 2 guys are hurt then we are still solid. Problem is now we have 3 top guys hurt and then a 4th guy in Porter who doesnt have his legs there yet
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#353 » by Hypnotizer » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:01 am

Bench production:

Vesely - 2 pts
Singleton - 3 pts

total - 5 pts...
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#354 » by Halcyon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:03 am

Hypnotizer wrote:Bench production:

Vesely - 2 pts
Singleton - 3 pts

total - 5 pts...

That...is sad.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#355 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:06 am

dlts20 wrote:I have 2 comments on Wall. One is that Im not worried about him late in games. 1st off I think he has hit alot of big shots even this year that goes overlooked. He's hit key jumpers with like 2 or 3min up to put us up by 5 and stuff like that. Its the last second shots that he hasnt hit but there are alot of guys who failed alot early until they grew into it more. However, I still like Beal. People dont think he's a one on one guy but I would trust him in the clutch.

2nd is that am I the only one noticing how tired Wall is? I dont even mean at the end. He looks dead with like 5min left in the 5th of every game. I wish I had gifs on his face. No one on the court looks like that. His face looks different then everyone else. Its like he just played 2 whole games in a row. Its starting to worry me and I think its the biggest reason for his struggles. I think its his style of play and the fact that he's the only ball handler/play maker on the team. He can play 36min but its like 45min to everyone else. Thats how much energy his face looks like he's expending. Its weird


No, its not weird. Its why Boston moved Avery Bradley to SG and put Crawford at the PG. Playing PG was killing ABs game. Now at SG he can rest more and he uses that extra energy to play better D and shoot.

Beal coming back will help. He isn't a great ball handler but he does help take some of that off of Wall.

Good to see Rice get that start. That will help his development a lot. Really good defender. And he has some handles. He just has to settle in. I liked him in preseason but started to lose faith since he was used so little. I think he can be useful. He just has to be used more.

2M or not. Maynor should be end of the bench. I would rather see Glen at PG.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#356 » by TGW » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:08 am

wizardry wrote:
nate33 wrote:
wizardry wrote:
* Fixed Maynor plays 5 minutes. Bench still sucks and Wizards still lose.

Yeah, except when Garrett Temple ran the bench unit, they went +1. Maynor hasn't had a positive differential for at least 10 games now. Actually, I'm not sure if he's had a positive differential yet in 19 games this season - truly an astonishing feat.


Lmao Denver got the lead. Thats how they won.


wtf are you talking about?
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#357 » by jivelikenice » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:12 am

Wall is a hybrid. He's not a pure pass first guy like Rondo because he does have scoring ability but he's also not a shoot first pg. That's what makes him such an intriguing prospect. He's still not comfortable enough as a scorer to be a closer so the return of Beal should help. Unfortunately Beal is behind as well. With no true end of game creator its imperative for the coach to be a wiz in terms of drawing up plays but unfortunately that's not Wittman's forte.

Wall has made a ton of progress, now he just has one more step to go. All part of the maturation process...he'll get there. One year ago the conversation was is he even worth keeping around or was he a bust relative to his draft slot. No we're debating closing ability on a potential playoff team...Progress.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#358 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:19 am

GR Jr was beyond good on defense tonight. Strong and smart. Moved his feet, closed out really well on shooters. Did you all notice him crowding Hamilton at the three point line after Hamilton had been draining them.

He needs to gobble up all of Singleton's minutes.
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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#359 » by MikeTheKid » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:20 am

I didnt watch the game tonight, from the posts I'm glad I didn't

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Re: GT: Nuggets @ Wizards (12/9/13) 

Post#360 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:22 am

keynote wrote:
Illmatic21 wrote:The problem with Wall is that he isn't a good scorer in general. He's already an unnatural, non-intuitive scorer. So when he tries to force the issue he just looks even worse.

Players like CP3, Curry, Irving, Lillard (who has been phenomenal lately) have confidence in their scoring abilities and are cool and collected in the clutch. They trust what they've practiced and let muscle memory take over.

Wall hasn't honed his scoring ability anywhere close to the degree those guys have, he doesn't have the muscle memory to begin with.

I'm trying to think of a comparison for point guards who were very good at running an offense, but NOT good as #1 options late in games. Kidd?


Kidd is the closest comp. Rondo is up there. Mark Jackson, back in the day.

I hope he can be something in between Rondo and Westbrook. Westbrook worked really hard and eventually developed a deadly midrange game. And by midrange, I'm talking 14-17 feet, not 20 feet. Wall is trying, but it's just not there yet. And he shoots too many from 19-21 feet rather than 14-17. I would also like to see Wall convert near the basket with more efficiency. He has missed a ton of layups over the last 10 games or so.

I do like that Wall has become at least marginally credible as a 3-point shooter. That 3-point set shot is something that doesn't make me cringe nearly as much as his off-balance fade-to-the-right long-2's

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