ImageImageImageImageImage

Political Roundtable Part XIX

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

Pointgod
RealGM
Posts: 24,114
And1: 24,441
Joined: Jun 28, 2014

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#341 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 8, 2018 5:01 pm

gtn130 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:This shows how misguided it is when you think that taking a bad side actually helps.


The thing is, I might agree with this if Trump didn't exist and the Republicans weren't enabling and empowering him.


I think that's this is the detail that's getting lost in the weeds. Trump is an unmitigated disaster both domestically and internationally (the press gives him a pass on his abysmal foreign relations policy). It's like holy **** this guy is terrible on every single metric and then you realize holy **** the whole Republican party is corrupt and enabling his behavior! This why you can't look at this specific case in a context of both parties are bad. Just do a thought experiment of how a Democratic controlled Congress and the country would react if Obama had even a tenth of the scandals Trump has. Trump is literally the worst qualities of the most scandal filled administrations combined.
User avatar
Kanyewest
RealGM
Posts: 10,377
And1: 2,739
Joined: Jul 05, 2004

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#342 » by Kanyewest » Thu Mar 8, 2018 5:17 pm

Wizardspride
RealGM
Posts: 17,339
And1: 11,534
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: Olney, MD/Kailua/Kaneohe, HI
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#343 » by Wizardspride » Thu Mar 8, 2018 5:58 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Read on Twitter
?s=20

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
cammac
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 6,216
Joined: Aug 02, 2013
Location: Niagara Peninsula
         

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#344 » by cammac » Thu Mar 8, 2018 6:40 pm

While many on the forum don't know much about trade between nations "Trade Wars" do have consequences. The Trump administration is heading towards one because of a lack of knowledge and incite. Canada had held out becoming a member of the TPP because of a number of issues that were resolved and is ready to sign the free trade treaty.
If the USA does decide in the future to become part of TPP it is highly unlikely they will be approved.
The United States will receive no preferential treatment if it decides it wants to rejoin the sweeping Trans-Pacific Partnership that Canada and its 10 countries were to sign Thursday, says a senior Canadian trade official…

The new TPP, known as the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for the Trans-Pacific Partnership, or CPTPP, contains 22 provisions that were suspended from the original 12-country agreement, which included the U.S.

Under the terms of letting new members into the CPTPP, all 11 members would have to agree to lift those suspended provisions.


The TPP has significant benefits for the Canadian, Australian & NZ economies on farm products.
The likelihood of increased sales of beef, pork, soy & grains from Canada at the expense of the USA. Would those 3 countries ever allow the USA to join + Mexico?

The United States has “gone from being a leader to actually being the No. 1 antagonist and No. 1 source of fear,” said Jeffrey Wilson, head of research at Perth U.S.-Asia Center at the University of Western Australia. “If you’re a trade policy maker in Asia, your No. 1 fear is that Trump is going to take a swing at you.”

He added that such fears could prompt countries, however reluctantly, to tether themselves more closely to China. “The U.S. is really delivering the region to China at the moment,” Mr. Wilson said.

The new agreement — known as the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership — will drop tariffs drastically and establish sweeping new trade rules in markets that represent about a seventh of the world’s economy. It will open more markets to free trade in agricultural products and digital services around the region. While American beef faces 38.5 percent tariffs in Japan, for example, beef from Australia, New Zealand and Canada will not.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/8/1747465/-It-turns-out-that-the-TPP-is-bad-for-the-US

Canada has already signed a free trade agreement with the EU which will be beneficial in opening up trade and also getting European investment. If any of the European Automakers want to expand operations in North America now Canada is the obvious choice.

Even USA manufacturers will look at Canada look at the Ford 150 it is built primarily out of Aluminum. Would it not be desirable to move production from Kansas City to Canada?
Zonkerbl
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,058
And1: 4,750
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#345 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Mar 8, 2018 6:51 pm

Trump may have sold out our country to a hostile foreign power - yawn.

Trump had an affair with a porn star! End of the presidency!

This is how reality tv has destroyed our country.
I've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless.
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 16,304
And1: 7,403
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#346 » by FAH1223 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:10 pm

gtn130 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:It is because the Democratic establishment has succumbed to the corporate powers that be completely and helped descend the country to where it is right now. The Dems don't even exist in half the states anymore.


Do you think the vast majority of voters actually care about political outcomes? Why is it exactly that the Kentucky electorate simultaneously despises Obamacare while being some of the foremost beneficiaries of the law?

Not everyone is super WOKE about corruption among establishment elites. Lots of folks just watch Fox News and do what Hannity tells them to do even when it's hilariously against their own interests (literally always). It's all identity politics.

The key difference is that Fox News and Republicans in general are just better at playing the game and more willing to break the rules. Firing up their base with propaganda, making wild empty promises, drawing from a bottomless well of intellectual dishonesty - those things are really successful short-term strategies! That, along with the fact that they own the most important voting bloc - retirees who reliably vote because of they have nothing else to do.

The idea that Democratic establishment elites being phonies is what has lead to their recent decline is definitely not a fair statement.


Its a fair statement.

The GOP establishment are phonies but they are pushing an ideology and methods of capturing power at every turn to accomplish their goals. As you said, they have FOX, talk radio, now Sinclair owns so many local affiliates, the Kochs investing billions into nonprofits to organize on their agenda, funding universities and think tanks..

The Dems went rightward, they embraced the policies of the Clinton years which haven't aged well. Progressives have had a bigger voice in recent years but the establishment can't have the party being overrun by them. The consultant money, the destruction of the DNC, the collapse of state parties... this is all due to incompetence and an empty message. There has been no strategy during the Obama years of keeping state legislatures competitive or blue outside of the coasts. All the money raised went to consultants and vendors.
Image
stilldropin20
RealGM
Posts: 11,370
And1: 1,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2002
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#347 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:17 pm

Read on Twitter
like i said, its a full rebuild.
stilldropin20
RealGM
Posts: 11,370
And1: 1,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2002
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#348 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:22 pm

Read on Twitter
like i said, its a full rebuild.
stilldropin20
RealGM
Posts: 11,370
And1: 1,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2002
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#349 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:23 pm

Read on Twitter
like i said, its a full rebuild.
stilldropin20
RealGM
Posts: 11,370
And1: 1,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2002
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#350 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:26 pm

the police are not allowed to police anymore. protect yourselves. or dont protect yourselves. choice is yours. for now.

Read on Twitter
like i said, its a full rebuild.
stilldropin20
RealGM
Posts: 11,370
And1: 1,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2002
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#352 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:29 pm

hey, remember when obama took photos with farakhan and others racists? yeah me neither. main stream media wont talk about it. but trump!!! he didn't condemn david duke fast enough!!!

Read on Twitter
like i said, its a full rebuild.
stilldropin20
RealGM
Posts: 11,370
And1: 1,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2002
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#353 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:33 pm

cammac wrote:Real News Fox Sean Hannity gets posterized about immigration.
He as usual gives figures as crimes on a incredible broad spectrum of crimes mostly minor and non violent and gets taken to task. When confronted and obviously losing he abruptly calls off the interview.

Finally, an exasperated Ramos let loose on Hannity for using what he called misleading numbers on crime by leaving out context.

“You don’t tell your audience the truth, the facts,” Ramos said, “that immigrants are less likely to be criminals than those born in the United States.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/sean-hannity-jorge-ramos_us_5aa0b4e8e4b002df2c60a61d

Drug cartels are a huge problem in the world they are violent, corrupt officials and do damage to the users of there unholy products. But who is the chief armorer for those cartels the lax gun law in the USA. Whether it is the illegal export of guns to Mexico or in other parts of the world.

There were 60 assault-style rifles and ammo in the shipment that arrived at Rio’s international airport on June 1, 2017 ― 45 of them manufactured in the United States. And they were all almost certainly intended for the drug gangs fighting among themselves and against local police in Rio’s favelas, helping drive a sharp spike in violence across Brazil’s second-largest city. These were Brazilian turf wars, waged with weapons manufactured in Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, Illinois, Minnesota, South Carolina, Alabama and Florida.


In the days after the bust, police arrested several Brazilians they said were involved in the plot. But the alleged head of the operation remained elusive, even though police believed they knew exactly who he was: Frederik Barbieri, a 46-year-old Brazilian who had been raised outside Rio de Janeiro before becoming a millionaire by smuggling guns from the United States to his home country.

There had been a similar sting in 2010 and similar accusations against Barbieri. But by 2012, he had fled to the United States and settled in South Florida, from which, Brazilian police allege, he spent five years smuggling more than 1,000 rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition into Brazil.


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/weapon-smuggling-us-brazil_us_5aa053d8e4b0d4f5b66d14e8


buried lead. Fox actually allows the left a a chance to voice their opinions on their station. And hannity himswelf is #1 in the ratings and been #1 for over 5 months. and its not close. Fox is not only #1 across the boards but hannity is their tom brady or steph curry.

here's the full video. Bottom line. we can and should stop this additional crime committed by illegal immigrants. american on american crime is bad enough...why allow illegals to cross the border and commit even MORE crime?

adding . ramos is a regular contributor for Fox. and says the same things over and over. they challenge him but let him speak.

https://www.hannity.com/media-room/fireworks-hannity-goes-head-to-head-with-univisions-jorge-ramos-on-immigration/
like i said, its a full rebuild.
stilldropin20
RealGM
Posts: 11,370
And1: 1,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2002
 

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#354 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:35 pm



but they will support this candidate?? dems are all kinds of effed(better?) up.

Read on Twitter


:nonono:
like i said, its a full rebuild.
cammac
General Manager
Posts: 8,757
And1: 6,216
Joined: Aug 02, 2013
Location: Niagara Peninsula
         

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#355 » by cammac » Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:53 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
cammac wrote:Real News Fox Sean Hannity gets posterized about immigration.
He as usual gives figures as crimes on a incredible broad spectrum of crimes mostly minor and non violent and gets taken to task. When confronted and obviously losing he abruptly calls off the interview.

Finally, an exasperated Ramos let loose on Hannity for using what he called misleading numbers on crime by leaving out context.

“You don’t tell your audience the truth, the facts,” Ramos said, “that immigrants are less likely to be criminals than those born in the United States.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/sean-hannity-jorge-ramos_us_5aa0b4e8e4b002df2c60a61d

Drug cartels are a huge problem in the world they are violent, corrupt officials and do damage to the users of there unholy products. But who is the chief armorer for those cartels the lax gun law in the USA. Whether it is the illegal export of guns to Mexico or in other parts of the world.

There were 60 assault-style rifles and ammo in the shipment that arrived at Rio’s international airport on June 1, 2017 ― 45 of them manufactured in the United States. And they were all almost certainly intended for the drug gangs fighting among themselves and against local police in Rio’s favelas, helping drive a sharp spike in violence across Brazil’s second-largest city. These were Brazilian turf wars, waged with weapons manufactured in Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, Illinois, Minnesota, South Carolina, Alabama and Florida.


In the days after the bust, police arrested several Brazilians they said were involved in the plot. But the alleged head of the operation remained elusive, even though police believed they knew exactly who he was: Frederik Barbieri, a 46-year-old Brazilian who had been raised outside Rio de Janeiro before becoming a millionaire by smuggling guns from the United States to his home country.

There had been a similar sting in 2010 and similar accusations against Barbieri. But by 2012, he had fled to the United States and settled in South Florida, from which, Brazilian police allege, he spent five years smuggling more than 1,000 rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition into Brazil.


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/weapon-smuggling-us-brazil_us_5aa053d8e4b0d4f5b66d14e8


buried lead. Fox actually allows the left a a chance to voice their opinions on their station. And hannity himswelf is #1 in the ratings and been #1 for over 5 months. and its not close. Fox is not only #1 across the boards but hannity is their tom brady or steph curry.

here's the full video. Bottom line. we can and should stop this additional crime committed by illegal immigrants. american on american crime is bad enough...why allow illegals to cross the border and commit even MORE crime?

adding . ramos is a regular contributor for Fox. and says the same things over and over. they challenge him but let him speak.

https://www.hannity.com/media-room/fireworks-hannity-goes-head-to-head-with-univisions-jorge-ramos-on-immigration/


Hannity is getting destroyed by Maddow :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wizardspride
RealGM
Posts: 17,339
And1: 11,534
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: Olney, MD/Kailua/Kaneohe, HI
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#356 » by Wizardspride » Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:01 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
montestewart
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 14,810
And1: 7,934
Joined: Feb 25, 2009

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#357 » by montestewart » Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:02 pm

No. 1 Hannity is the best in television just like No. 1 McDonalds is the best in cuisine. As Hands might say, they may be No. 1, but they seem more like No. 2.
User avatar
gtn130
Analyst
Posts: 3,512
And1: 2,740
Joined: Mar 18, 2009

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#358 » by gtn130 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:13 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:It is because the Democratic establishment has succumbed to the corporate powers that be completely and helped descend the country to where it is right now. The Dems don't even exist in half the states anymore.


Do you think the vast majority of voters actually care about political outcomes? Why is it exactly that the Kentucky electorate simultaneously despises Obamacare while being some of the foremost beneficiaries of the law?

Not everyone is super WOKE about corruption among establishment elites. Lots of folks just watch Fox News and do what Hannity tells them to do even when it's hilariously against their own interests (literally always). It's all identity politics.

The key difference is that Fox News and Republicans in general are just better at playing the game and more willing to break the rules. Firing up their base with propaganda, making wild empty promises, drawing from a bottomless well of intellectual dishonesty - those things are really successful short-term strategies! That, along with the fact that they own the most important voting bloc - retirees who reliably vote because of they have nothing else to do.

The idea that Democratic establishment elites being phonies is what has lead to their recent decline is definitely not a fair statement.


Its a fair statement.

The GOP establishment are phonies but they are pushing an ideology and methods of capturing power at every turn to accomplish their goals. As you said, they have FOX, talk radio, now Sinclair owns so many local affiliates, the Kochs investing billions into nonprofits to organize on their agenda, funding universities and think tanks..

The Dems went rightward, they embraced the policies of the Clinton years which haven't aged well. Progressives have had a bigger voice in recent years but the establishment can't have the party being overrun by them. The consultant money, the destruction of the DNC, the collapse of state parties... this is all due to incompetence and an empty message. There has been no strategy during the Obama years of keeping state legislatures competitive or blue outside of the coasts. All the money raised went to consultants and vendors.


Imagine a world where the Democratic establishment continues doing those things and then they also do the things Republicans do to win elections and prevent their opponents from governing.

Would you be saying “my what an effective bunch! they have a clear and actionable message here!” ?

You wouldn’t. You’d be railing against how corrupt and awful they are! You’d be worried about the norms being eroded.

The GOP methods of winning elections and capturing their goals boil down to lying and breaking the rules. It’s easy to have a powerful message when you make things up!

“Obama, a secret muslim, is bringing socialism to the US. Grab your guns before they’re gone.” Wow, the efficacy of the GOP! They really have their house in order! The Dems just don’t have a message!
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 16,304
And1: 7,403
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#359 » by FAH1223 » Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:15 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Imagine a world where the Democratic establishment continues doing those things and then they also do the things Republicans do to win elections and prevent their opponents from governing.

Would you be saying “my what an effective bunch! they have a clear and actionable message here!” ?

You wouldn’t. You’d be railing against how corrupt and awful they are! You’d be worried about the norms being eroded.

The GOP methods of winning elections and capturing their goals boil down to lying and breaking the rules. It’s easy to have a powerful message when you make things up!

“Obama, a secret muslim, is bringing socialism to the US. Grab your guns before they’re gone.” Wow, the efficacy of the GOP! They really have their house in order! The Dems just don’t have a message!


The GOP breaks the rules because that's the only way they can win majorities. I agree.

But why don't the Democrats mount an effective strategy to stop them? You won't hear them talk about interstate cross check and how to reverse it. They don't want to breakup monopolies or the banks. They don't want to do the HARD WORK of governing and using public power effectively.

It's an ideology!
Image
Zonkerbl
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,058
And1: 4,750
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
       

Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#360 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:24 pm

I'll repeat this as often as necessary also.

Both parties are broken, but in different ways.

The GOP's job is to represent the wealthy, but they can't say that out loud, and to win people to their side they necessarily have to lie and cheat and steal. Their business model is hypocrisy.

The Dems don't have this problem. They have no incentive to be dishonest. But they are incompetent because they have to represent a lot of different little issues, the constituents of whom don't give a damn about the others.

The Dems don't lie. They will never lie, that has never been their problem and never will be. The Dems' problem is incompetence, not hypocrisy.

The GOP problem is lies, lies, lies. They govern too effectively, by deceiving people.

We need more effective governing from the Dems, and less effective governing from the Republicans. May never happen. It's an underlying incentives thing.
I've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless.

Return to Washington Wizards