2020 Draft

Shoe · Post #341 » by **Shoe** » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:52 pm

Wings are the toughest to decipher in college. They're the most important position in the NBA, but in college they're:
1. Too big so forced to be forwards
2. No freedom in coaches strict offenses
I looked back at PG, Kawhi, Butler college highlights and they all had pull up jumpers. Okoro is all either around the rim or set three's - no pull up game. This might be by design now with analytics.

I think the big fish for the Wizards are still Edwards and Wiseman. Outside of those I think Tommy Sheppard is inclined to international players so Hayes or Avdija.

Read on Twitter

Illmatic12 · Post #342 » by **Illmatic12** » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:44 pm

Shoe wrote:Wings are the toughest to decipher in college. They're the most important position in the NBA, but in college they're:
1. Too big so forced to be forwards
2. No freedom in coaches strict offenses
I looked back at PG, Kawhi, Butler college highlights and they all had pull up jumpers. Okoro is all either around the rim or set three's - no pull up game. This might be by design now with analytics.

I think the big fish for the Wizards are still Edwards and Wiseman. Outside of those I think Tommy Sheppard is inclined to international players so Hayes or Avdija.

Read on Twitter

Okoro’s taken like two pull-up Js all season. As much as I love him , he does need to show more there .. in the NBA it’s so hard to reach your ceiling as a perimeter player if you’re lacking the pull-up threat.

Watched a lot more of Killian Hayes and frankly I am enamored. He has the skills and poise to run a professional team at a young age, almost reminds me of Doncic in that respect. Not sure who I prefer longterm between Hayes vs Lamelo (who despite his flaws is also still ridiculously young) but both have the potential to be perennial stars imo, I would be thrilled if we drafted a lead guard with that kind of upside.

What do you see in Avdija? I don’t like him for us. The typical learning curve for skinny/finesse wing players is too steep in the NBA.. by the time those players reach their ceiling they’re in their mid 20s and playing on another team.

SUPERBALLMAN · Post #343 » by **SUPERBALLMAN** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:15 am

Any opinions on RJ Hampton ? Watching him he has Wall-like speed.... Seems to have all the skills and a good understanding of the game. Could be a good situation for him with Wall and Ish here next year.

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2018/12/1-on-1-with-rj-hampton.html

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/rj-hampton.html

Watch on YouTube

Shoe · Post #344 » by **Shoe** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:35 am

pcbothwel wrote:Im a fan of Toppin... but My sleeper big is Paul Reed from Depaul.... He gets my "Brandon Clarke" award this year.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--obi-toppin--brandon-clarke

As a Wiz fan, I would love nothing more than to snag our future PG in the top 6-8 (Anthony or Mannion) and accrue another 1st to get one of the wings/bigs that look great (Okoro, Toppin, Reed, Bey, etc.)

Im on the Okoro, Reed, Bey bandwagon... all 3 play a decade in the league and GMs will wonder how they missed...

Reed is the real deal. I have a hard time seeing 6-8, length, athleticism, advanced stats, and flashes of a real handle and pull up jumper go outside the top 10.

Shoe · Post #345 » by **Shoe** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:41 am

Illmatic12 wrote:
Watched a lot more of Killian Hayes and frankly I am enamored. He has the skills and poise to run a professional team at a young age, almost reminds me of Doncic in that respect. Not sure who I prefer longterm between Hayes vs Lamelo (who despite his flaws is also still ridiculously young) but both have the potential to be perennial stars imo, I would be thrilled if we drafted a lead guard with that kind of upside.

What do you see in Avdija? I don’t like him for us. The typical learning curve for skinny/finesse wing players is too steep in the NBA.. by the time those players reach their ceiling they’re in their mid 20s and playing on another team.

Hayes v. Lamelo is a good question. I don't love or hate Avdija but im preparing for the Tommy Sheppard pick that angers the fan base. Also NBA teams are allowed I believe 2 contracts with foreign businesses and we have NEC from Japan and I imagine there's an opportunity with the Israel market Ted might want to jump on.

Post #346 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:51 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
Shoe wrote:Wings are the toughest to decipher in college. They're the most important position in the NBA, but in college they're:
1. Too big so forced to be forwards
2. No freedom in coaches strict offenses
I looked back at PG, Kawhi, Butler college highlights and they all had pull up jumpers. Okoro is all either around the rim or set three's - no pull up game. This might be by design now with analytics.

I think the big fish for the Wizards are still Edwards and Wiseman. Outside of those I think Tommy Sheppard is inclined to international players so Hayes or Avdija.

Read on Twitter

Okoro’s taken like two pull-up Js all season. As much as I love him , he does need to show more there .. in the NBA it’s so hard to reach your ceiling as a perimeter player if you’re lacking the pull-up threat.

Watched a lot more of Killian Hayes and frankly I am enamored. He has the skills and poise to run a professional team at a young age, almost reminds me of Doncic in that respect. Not sure who I prefer longterm between Hayes vs Lamelo (who despite his flaws is also still ridiculously young) but both have the potential to be perennial stars imo, I would be thrilled if we drafted a lead guard with that kind of upside.

What do you see in Avdija? I don’t like him for us. The typical learning curve for skinny/finesse wing players is too steep in the NBA.. by the time those players reach their ceiling they’re in their mid 20s and playing on another team.

To me - Hayes is the top prospect in the draft. Just don't see many 19 year old's with his combo of confidence/cockiness, skills, athleticism, and size - and I think he could move to the 2 if his NBA team is already set at the 1.

I think Avdija having a big game like that is a big deal - because he was having a tough season getting acclimated to such a high level of competition. Remember, he's also a teenager, so he's going to fill out some. I think of him as a poor man's Doncic. How poor is hard to tell, but he's a big-time prospect.

I'm not a Lamelo fan - he's a chucker who doesn't defend and probably needs to dominate the ball - not seeing how you win with a player like him - regardless of his flashy passing ability and good rebounding. I don't think the rebounding will fully translate to the NBA, because NBA teams usually want their PG's to be the first player down the court in transition.

payitforward · Post #347 » by **payitforward** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:46 pm

Shoe wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Im a fan of Toppin... but My sleeper big is Paul Reed from Depaul.... He gets my "Brandon Clarke" award this year.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--obi-toppin--brandon-clarke

As a Wiz fan, I would love nothing more than to snag our future PG in the top 6-8 (Anthony or Mannion) and accrue another 1st to get one of the wings/bigs that look great (Okoro, Toppin, Reed, Bey, etc.)

Im on the Okoro, Reed, Bey bandwagon... all 3 play a decade in the league and GMs will wonder how they missed...

Reed is the real deal. I have a hard time seeing 6-8, length, athleticism, advanced stats, and flashes of a real handle and pull up jumper go outside the top 10.

I like Reed, but I don't see how he is similar to Brandon Clarke. Then again... maybe that's not what you meant?

Illmatic12 · Post #348 » by **Illmatic12** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
Shoe wrote:Wings are the toughest to decipher in college. They're the most important position in the NBA, but in college they're:
1. Too big so forced to be forwards
2. No freedom in coaches strict offenses
I looked back at PG, Kawhi, Butler college highlights and they all had pull up jumpers. Okoro is all either around the rim or set three's - no pull up game. This might be by design now with analytics.

I think the big fish for the Wizards are still Edwards and Wiseman. Outside of those I think Tommy Sheppard is inclined to international players so Hayes or Avdija.

Read on Twitter

Okoro’s taken like two pull-up Js all season. As much as I love him , he does need to show more there .. in the NBA it’s so hard to reach your ceiling as a perimeter player if you’re lacking the pull-up threat.

Watched a lot more of Killian Hayes and frankly I am enamored. He has the skills and poise to run a professional team at a young age, almost reminds me of Doncic in that respect. Not sure who I prefer longterm between Hayes vs Lamelo (who despite his flaws is also still ridiculously young) but both have the potential to be perennial stars imo, I would be thrilled if we drafted a lead guard with that kind of upside.

What do you see in Avdija? I don’t like him for us. The typical learning curve for skinny/finesse wing players is too steep in the NBA.. by the time those players reach their ceiling they’re in their mid 20s and playing on another team.

To me - Hayes is the top prospect in the draft. Just don't see many 19 year old's with his combo of confidence/cockiness, skills, athleticism, and size - and I think he could move to the 2 if his NBA team is already set at the 1.

I think Avdija having a big game like that is a big deal - because he was having a tough season getting acclimated to such a high level of competition. Remember, he's also a teenager, so he's going to fill out some. I think of him as a poor man's Doncic. How poor is hard to tell, but he's a big-time prospect.

I'm not a Lamelo fan - he's a chucker who doesn't defend and probably needs to dominate the ball - not seeing how you win with a player like him - regardless of his flashy passing ability and good rebounding. I don't think the rebounding will fully translate to the NBA, because NBA teams usually want their PG's to be the first player down the court in transition.

Wouldn't be mad at Hayes #1 with his poise being so evident at a young age. But in terms of NBA upside it really is tough to overlook Edwards raw potential. He has obvious flaws but I have to remind myself that Antman is actually younger than Killian by a month, and he hasn't been seriously playing basketball for that long (he was a football player until HS). That's how I'm leaning as of now , but still more to discover as the months go on.

Hmm do think Avdija will fill out but in all likelihood, not nearly enough to deal with the strong wings of the NBA. Doncic is really strong and physical which is why he can outduel elite NBA wing athletes. Avdija's upside comes into question when the scouting report spreads that he's not strong with his left hand dribble, feels like the kind of guy who defenders can just crowd his space and shut him down. Like him enough, but don't see the NBA star upside you would want.

Re: Lamelo his introduction to basketball was actually as a natural off-ball player (he always played up with his older brothers ,who were the main options on the team) , he still plays with those instincts so I don't think playing off the ball would be an issue. He strikes me as similar to Hayes in a lot of ways, very natural and instinctual player with savant passing. Lamelo's shooting mechanics aren't consistent yet but as we see with Lonzo now (shooting 36% 3pt on 6.4 attempts this season) an NBA shooting coach may be able to help him with that. If so then his upside is top 3 in this class easy - but a lot of these question marks have yet to be answered

youngWizzy · Post #349 » by **youngWizzy** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:54 pm

The major concern with LaMelo is his motor. He really has none on the defensive end whatsoever. I won't be surprised if we look at a stat like DRPM in his first few years and find him at the dead bottom. Lonzo is high school did have terrific motor and played good defense. Lonzo's defense in the league has been good but LaMelo just does not have the motor that Lonzo does which will drive coaches and fans crazy. In terms of athleticism, Lonzo is by far the more superior above the rim athlete than LaMelo and it's confusing why people think the other way. A lot of times when you watch LaMelo you see how disinterested he is in the game which is just a major red flag. I would stay away from him.

Shoe · Post #350 » by **Shoe** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:06 am

payitforward wrote:
Shoe wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Im a fan of Toppin... but My sleeper big is Paul Reed from Depaul.... He gets my "Brandon Clarke" award this year.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--obi-toppin--brandon-clarke

As a Wiz fan, I would love nothing more than to snag our future PG in the top 6-8 (Anthony or Mannion) and accrue another 1st to get one of the wings/bigs that look great (Okoro, Toppin, Reed, Bey, etc.)

Im on the Okoro, Reed, Bey bandwagon... all 3 play a decade in the league and GMs will wonder how they missed...

Reed is the real deal. I have a hard time seeing 6-8, length, athleticism, advanced stats, and flashes of a real handle and pull up jumper go outside the top 10.

I like Reed, but I don't see how he is similar to Brandon Clarke. Then again... maybe that's not what you meant?

I don't think they're too similar other than they're upperclassmen. After looking into him how isn't he projected as a top 10 lock though? I have to be missing something here.

listed as 6'9'', 220lbs, will be a young 21 come draft day
16.3/11.3/1.5 per game 2.9 blocks 1.9 steals - .55/.29/.81 splits
Advanced stats - 60 TS%, 29 PER 18.6 TRB% 11.9 BPM 116 ORtg 86 DRtg, 3rd in NCAA in defensive win shares

Beyond the above the rim athleticism, blocks, steals, dunks, and defense with the eye test there is NBA style offense popping off the screen - pump fakes, jab steps, pull up jumpers, turn around jumpers, and flashes of a perimeter handle. I'm only going off highlights so Im no expert on his game though.

(sorry for the gif dump but im fascinated now)

Spoiler:

Obviously he's more noted for his paint skills but I'm seeing some signs of perimeter ability. If I have to pick a prospect from this draft to matchup physically with LeBron, Kawhi, PG, it seems like Reed is that body type. The thing with Okoro and Josh Green is they're listed at 6'6 but are likely 6'5 or 6'4. Reed is listed as 6'9 and I cant see him being less than 6'8. I'm going to have to defer to people who know more about him than me, because I would put him right alongside A.Edwards and J.Wiseman as just looking like a NBAer. I love his fit with the Wiz because of his age and his rebounding and defense. I think Wall/Beal/Reed would be good to go starting next season. Warning his free throw rate is poor and his shot looks wonky. I think he's far from guaranteed to being great but maybe if he has the drive there could be an all star there.

Post #351 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:12 pm

Good stuff Shoe. DePaul's been on tv a couple of times recently, and I watched bits and pieces - but not enough to get a full picture on him. There are good things and bad things that I gleaned - he didn't jump out to me as a sure fire NBA talent - unfortunately, his teammates weren't focusing on getting him the ball - he was more of junkyard dog in his opportunities - so on the positive side - he was effective without them running plays for him - though he did not stand out offensively. He definitely needs to get stronger to excel in the NBA - especially if he's going to play 30 plus minutes a game. I saw him get easily out-maneuvered a few times on defense by average offensive players, so even though he gets lots of blocks and steals, I don't see him as being as good a defender as Clarke - but it was too small a sample size to form a strong opinion.

payitforward · Post #352 » by **payitforward** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:27 pm

Agree -- this makes very good sense. & if he's projected lower than he should be... all the better! That might mean we could do that awful thing everybody hates and... trade down -- maybe wind up with Reed and Tyler Bey?? Or Reed plus a really good prospect at the 1/2?

Post #353 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:00 pm

payitforward wrote:Agree -- this makes very good sense. & if he's projected lower than he should be... all the better! That might mean we could do that awful thing everybody hates and... trade down -- maybe wind up with Reed and Tyler Bey?? Or Reed plus a really good prospect at the 1/2?

If we trade down, a player I really like - even though he doesn't necessarily fill a need - that's projected around 20 - is Aaron Nesmith. He's a 3 and D guy who I think is big and physical enough to play some 3 as well as 2. Great shooter and has a very good defensive rep. And looked like a good athlete to me who's smart and energetic.

Shoe · Post #354 » by **Shoe** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:16 pm

Ruz Reeds NBA upside depends on him expanding his game to the perimeter. I like that he has shown some ability to drive with his left hand as well as his right. Interestingly he has the same 3p% as Kawhi did at 29%. I haven't seen full games of his though so Im sure there are drawbacks including lapses and lack of strength for an older player.

PIF getting Reed and Bey to bolster our defense and rebounding would be the dream but I'm betting it's a pipe dream. It probably could happen - especially if we move up in the lottery and can make a more lucrative trade down - but I'm not going to hold my breath on Sheppard executing a plan like that.

I think Sheppard could be zeroing in on Aleksej Pokusevski. USA Today's mock draft has him going in the lottery at #13. 18 y/o, 7'0, has shown handle, passing, and shooting ability.

Watch on YouTube

I could be over thinking Shep focusing on international players, but our roster does consist of a nice swath of them. The good news is Poku is a high upside nickname.

pcbothwel · Post #355 » by **pcbothwel** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:04 pm

Shoe wrote:Ruz Reeds NBA upside depends on him expanding his game to the perimeter. I like that he has shown some ability to drive with his left hand as well as his right. Interestingly he has the same 3p% as Kawhi did at 29%. I haven't seen full games of his though so Im sure there are drawbacks including lapses and lack of strength for an older player.

PIF getting Reed and Bey to bolster our defense and rebounding would be the dream but I'm betting it's a pipe dream. It probably could happen - especially if we move up in the lottery and can make a more lucrative trade down - but I'm not going to hold my breath on Sheppard executing a plan like that.

I think Sheppard could be zeroing in on Aleksej Pokusevski. USA Today's mock draft has him going in the lottery at #13. 18 y/o, 7'0, has shown handle, passing, and shooting ability.

Watch on YouTube

I could be over thinking Shep focusing on international players, but our roster does consist of a nice swath of them. The good news is Poku is a high upside nickname.

Ehhh. Not interested in him near the lotto. He doesnt shoot it particularly well, cant score at the rim, and has motor issues sometimes.
2nd round...sure

No need to overthink this one. Our needs match up with the talent this year. We need a backup guard that can form a three headed monster will Wall and Beal and take over for Wall at the end of their rookie deal.
Haliburton, Hayes, Cole Anthony, or Mannion... at least one will be there when we pick and we shouldnt over think this one... If all 4 are gone, then take Okoro or trade back.

After taking one of the PG's 1st, I'd look for a high motor/instinctive defender that drops to the 2nd that you hope improves offensively enough to be a steal. Those are the players that are worth betting on. So that would be...:
1st group: Paul Reed, Tre Jones, Tyler Bey
2nd group: Scottie Lewis, Ochai Agbaji
3rd group: Xavier Tillman Isaiah Joe, or Nesmith

You add Haliburton, Bey, a healthy John Wall, and another MLE player to this team... Things get interesting

SUPERBALLMAN · Post #356 » by **SUPERBALLMAN** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:50 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Shoe wrote:Ruz Reeds NBA upside depends on him expanding his game to the perimeter. I like that he has shown some ability to drive with his left hand as well as his right. Interestingly he has the same 3p% as Kawhi did at 29%. I haven't seen full games of his though so Im sure there are drawbacks including lapses and lack of strength for an older player.

PIF getting Reed and Bey to bolster our defense and rebounding would be the dream but I'm betting it's a pipe dream. It probably could happen - especially if we move up in the lottery and can make a more lucrative trade down - but I'm not going to hold my breath on Sheppard executing a plan like that.

I think Sheppard could be zeroing in on Aleksej Pokusevski. USA Today's mock draft has him going in the lottery at #13. 18 y/o, 7'0, has shown handle, passing, and shooting ability.

Watch on YouTube

I could be over thinking Shep focusing on international players, but our roster does consist of a nice swath of them. The good news is Poku is a high upside nickname.

Ehhh. Not interested in him near the lotto. He doesnt shoot it particularly well, cant score at the rim, and has motor issues sometimes.
2nd round...sure

No need to overthink this one. Our needs match up with the talent this year. We need a backup guard that can form a three headed monster will Wall and Beal and take over for Wall at the end of their rookie deal.
Haliburton, Hayes, Cole Anthony, or Mannion... at least one will be there when we pick and we shouldnt over think this one... If all 4 are gone, then take Okoro or trade back.

After taking one of the PG's 1st, I'd look for a high motor/instinctive defender that drops to the 2nd that you hope improves offensively enough to be a steal. Those are the players that are worth betting on. So that would be...:
1st group: Paul Reed, Tre Jones, Tyler Bey
2nd group: Scottie Lewis, Ochai Agbaji
3rd group: Xavier Tillman Isaiah Joe, or Nesmith

You add Haliburton, Bey, a healthy John Wall, and another MLE player to this team... Things get interesting

Hampton ? He should be added to 1st round guard candidates...

SUPERBALLMAN · Post #357 » by **SUPERBALLMAN** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:02 pm

2nd round defensive types could also include Dante and Diakite...

Shoe · Post #358 » by **Shoe** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:39 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Shoe wrote:Ruz Reeds NBA upside depends on him expanding his game to the perimeter. I like that he has shown some ability to drive with his left hand as well as his right. Interestingly he has the same 3p% as Kawhi did at 29%. I haven't seen full games of his though so Im sure there are drawbacks including lapses and lack of strength for an older player.

PIF getting Reed and Bey to bolster our defense and rebounding would be the dream but I'm betting it's a pipe dream. It probably could happen - especially if we move up in the lottery and can make a more lucrative trade down - but I'm not going to hold my breath on Sheppard executing a plan like that.

I think Sheppard could be zeroing in on Aleksej Pokusevski. USA Today's mock draft has him going in the lottery at #13. 18 y/o, 7'0, has shown handle, passing, and shooting ability.

Watch on YouTube

I could be over thinking Shep focusing on international players, but our roster does consist of a nice swath of them. The good news is Poku is a high upside nickname.

Ehhh. Not interested in him near the lotto. He doesnt shoot it particularly well, cant score at the rim, and has motor issues sometimes.
2nd round...sure

No need to overthink this one. Our needs match up with the talent this year. We need a backup guard that can form a three headed monster will Wall and Beal and take over for Wall at the end of their rookie deal.
Haliburton, Hayes, Cole Anthony, or Mannion... at least one will be there when we pick and we shouldnt over think this one... If all 4 are gone, then take Okoro or trade back.

After taking one of the PG's 1st, I'd look for a high motor/instinctive defender that drops to the 2nd that you hope improves offensively enough to be a steal. Those are the players that are worth betting on. So that would be...:
1st group: Paul Reed, Tre Jones, Tyler Bey
2nd group: Scottie Lewis, Ochai Agbaji
3rd group: Xavier Tillman Isaiah Joe, or Nesmith

You add Haliburton, Bey, a healthy John Wall, and another MLE player to this team... Things get interesting

I have a hard time seeing Poku as a net positive NBA player right now, but there's no denying he has some interesting footwork and ability to create shots off the bounce for a 7 footer. The quick pull up and high release point of his jumper looks promising. His ability to rebound and go into transition is good. Time will tell but I don't see him falling to the 2nd, neither Paul Reed or Tyler Bey. I would like a solid back up PG but we have Ish under contract, Payton, Robinson could always return. I'm willing to swing for star potential somewhere else.

Who I want
Edwards
Hayes
Reed

Who I'm expecting
Avdija
Poku
Sylla

bsilver · Post #359 » by **bsilver** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:44 pm

I know C's aren't as valued these days, but I'd still pick Wiseman if he's available. He won't be there at #6 so we'd have to do well in the lottery. The reasons:
There's no one else that stands out. He may be the most talented player in the draft.
The main reasons we're so bad are defense and rebounding. He does both. We're not getting better until these are fixed.
There's still an NBA need for down low post ups and alley-oops. We have nobody much good at that. (Bryant is just ok. Wagner is a non factor in our future plans IMO)
For better or worse we're pretty much set for starters at PG/SG/SF/PF. The C position has to be addressed.

payitforward · Post #360 » by **payitforward** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:36 am

Interesting POV.

I always & only want to draft the BPA; I never want to draft for position. So, if Wiseman is the bpa & there when we pick, sure....

In any case, I don't think we're set for starter at PG until we know how John is (not being skeptical...). & how anyone can think we're set for starter at PF I don't know.

We need more good young players at every single position.