Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[nate33]

Here's a trade idea I gleaned from a portion of gambitx777's idea that might make some sense for all parties:

Washington trades: Bryant, Lopez, Bertans
Washington receives: Drummond

Cleveland trades: Drummond
Cleveland receives: Bryant, Lopez, TPE

Boston trades: TPE
Boston receives: Bertans

For Washington: This deal gets us a dominant rebounder and decent defender at center, and it gets us off Bertans' deal. Lopez is inconsequential filler. The big dilemma is whether dumping Bryant is a good or bad thing. I think he is replaceable (either with a resigned Drummond at a lower cost, or with the MLE if we unload Drummond). Another issue is whether or not Drummond and Westbrook can work together. Probably not, but again, we can let Drummond walk in the offseason. This trade would be a dream if we can also trade Westbrook for Griffin.

For Cleveland: they turn Drummond into a younger and cheaper Bryant, and now they can spend a lot less money buying out Lopez.

For Boston: they add a useful player for their TPE.

Eh, the more I think about it, the more I think this isn't good for us unless we also found a way to dump Westbrook in another deal, which seems impossible at the moment.

[Ruzious]

Here's a trade idea I gleaned from a portion of gambitx777's idea that might make some sense for all parties:

Washington trades: Bryant, Lopez, Bertans
Washington receives: Drummond

Cleveland trades: Drummond
Cleveland receives: Bryant, Lopez, TPE

Boston trades: TPE
Boston receives: Bertans

For Washington: This deal gets us a dominant rebounder and decent defender at center, and it gets us off Bertans' deal. Lopez is inconsequential filler. The big dilemma is whether dumping Bryant is a good or bad thing. I think he is replaceable (either with a resigned Drummond at a lower cost, or with the MLE if we unload Drummond). Another issue is whether or not Drummond and Westbrook can work together. Probably not, but again, we can let Drummond walk in the offseason. This trade would be a dream if we can also trade Westbrook for Griffin.

For Cleveland: they turn Drummond into a younger and cheaper Bryant, and now they can spend a lot less money buying out Lopez.

For Boston: they add a useful player for their TPE.

Eh, the more I think about it, the more I think this isn't good for us unless we also found a way to dump Westbrook in another deal, which seems impossible at the moment.

I'm not a Drummond guy. I think he's a dinosaur in today's NBA.

[Ruzious]

Huh... I wouldn't have thought of this, but it is unquestionably an advantageous move in rebuilding this team. We do lose something offensively, but not much, as Brown is averaging 31 points per 40 minutes at a TS% north of 60%.

Might be hard for them salary-wise....

Same here - the thought hadn't crossed my mind. But yeah - I'd do it. Brown is such a talented defender - and has that extra bulk - similar to Harden - that allows him to overpower players while also having top athleticism.

I was brought up last off season, but Brown wasnt near the player he is now.
I would do and ask for a Robert Williams for Lopez swap. Offer a Bonga for Langford swap if that helps them.

That said, they are the ones needing to call us. Boston is 13-13 and a game away from NYK and the Hornets passing them and falling to the 7th seed.
Ainge hit on Brown & Tatum, but he has been awful everywhere else:
1) Managing cap/stars: Kyrie & Hayward trade/lack there of was horrendous.
2) Other picks: Ojeleye & Grant Williams are barely rotation worthy, if at all. Nesmith, Langford, Edwards are not even NBA caliber at this point
3) Free Agents: Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague were lauded as great vet signings while many on this board complained about Lopez and Neto for the same price. Lopez and Neto turned out to be solid signings while Thompson and Teague are ceiler dwellers.

If we can get their mid 1st rounder by including TBJ, swapping Wagner for Thompson - do it. I'd like to have Nesmith - he's doing horribly, but he's a rookie coming off a serious college injury - he'll get better.

I like this general idea, because Boston should be an organization Beal would like.

[payitforward]

I like Drummond; dinosaurs can be good, not that you want a whole lot of them. OTOH, I don't want Thompson $10m salary on the books next year.

[payitforward]

...Ainge hit on Brown & Tatum, but he has been awful everywhere else:
1) Managing cap/stars: Kyrie & Hayward trade/lack there of was horrendous.
2) Other picks: Ojeleye & Grant Williams are barely rotation worthy, if at all. Nesmith, Langford, Edwards are not even NBA caliber at this point
3) Free Agents: Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague were lauded as great vet signings while many on this board complained about Lopez and Neto for the same price. Lopez and Neto turned out to be solid signings while Thompson and Teague are ceiler dwellers.

You're leaving a few things out, I think.

Marcus Smart for starters. & Ojeleye - tho no great shakes for sure! - is a rotation journeyman out of R2. Plus, Ainge didn't just "hit on" Tatum, he made a brilliant trade to get him.

You missed mentioning Pritchard too, for that matter. Not to mention that Danny found Theis for nothing & Javonte Green too -- Green is playing extremely well. As to Nesmith & Williams, it's way too early to come to judgment.

Actually, Thompson costs $2m more than Lopez. OTOH, he's been a lot better than Robin. But, you are right that Neto has been better than Jeff Teague. A whole lot better.

For that matter, someone (maybe not you, however) critiqued his 2019 move which sent Thybulle to the Sixers for the #24 & 33 picks -- Ty Jerome & Carsen Edwards. I agree that Thybulle is very promising. But, the comment missed something: Ainge didn't pick Jerome: he moved that #24 pick to Phoenix for one of his late R1 picks this year -- the one he used on Payton Pritchard, I believe.

In all, Danny Ainge has been a lot better than you give him credit for. Some duds, to be sure -- but pretty good overall.

[The Consiglieri]

Would you trade Beal straight up for Jaylen Brown?

I think I would.

He is under contract for 3 more years, he is only 24 years old, and he improves every year. We lose Beal's offense but get Jaylen's defense, which is probably better for our developing roster - other guys would get to learn from Brown's example on defense. Meanwhile, we would be forced to diversify our offense more, which would help to develop Hachimura and Avdija. Overall, we'd probably be worse in the short term because Jaylen can't carry a team by himself as well as Beal can, which would land us a higher pick.

A year from now, we'd have a top 3 pick, Jaylen, Hachimura, Avdija, Bryant, more cap room, and no looming contract crisis. That team has more balance between offense and defense and it is no longer straddling the fence between win-now and plan for the future.

Trading Beal for a top 3 pick would be better, but this is better than trading Beal for, say, a Pelicans package of 4 future picks outside the lottery.

Huh... I wouldn't have thought of this, but it is unquestionably an advantageous move in rebuilding this team. We do lose something offensively, but not much, as Brown is averaging 31 points per 40 minutes at a TS% north of 60%.

Might be hard for them salary-wise....

Same here - the thought hadn't crossed my mind. But yeah - I'd do it. Brown is such a talented defender - and has that extra bulk - similar to Harden - that allows him to overpower players while also having top athleticism.

The problem is that at least w/Boston fans (and presumably the F.O.who’ve been shrewd in their deals if not in the handling of their picks and trades not made) the only attractive assets, Brown and Tatum, are the precise pieces they wouldn’t include in a Beal trade. It’s why we’re not mentioned w/them in a deal. They’d want to add Beal to the duo, not subtract from it to add Beal.

So, no deal.

[nate33]

...Ainge hit on Brown & Tatum, but he has been awful everywhere else:
1) Managing cap/stars: Kyrie & Hayward trade/lack there of was horrendous.
2) Other picks: Ojeleye & Grant Williams are barely rotation worthy, if at all. Nesmith, Langford, Edwards are not even NBA caliber at this point
3) Free Agents: Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague were lauded as great vet signings while many on this board complained about Lopez and Neto for the same price. Lopez and Neto turned out to be solid signings while Thompson and Teague are ceiler dwellers.

You're leaving a few things out, I think.

Marcus Smart for starters. & Ojeleye - tho no great shakes for sure! - is a rotation journeyman out of R2. Plus, Ainge didn't just "hit on" Tatum, he made a brilliant trade to get him.

You missed mentioning Pritchard too, for that matter. Not to mention that Danny found Theis for nothing & Javonte Green too -- Green is playing extremely well. As to Nesmith & Williams, it's way too early to come to judgment.

Actually, Thompson costs $2m more than Lopez. OTOH, he's been a lot better than Robin. But, you are right that Neto has been better than Jeff Teague. A whole lot better.

For that matter, someone (maybe not you, however) critiqued his 2019 move which sent Thybulle to the Sixers for the #24 & 33 picks -- Ty Jerome & Carsen Edwards. I agree that Thybulle is very promising. But, the comment missed something: Ainge didn't pick Jerome: he moved that #24 pick to Phoenix for one of his late R1 picks this year -- the one he used on Payton Pritchard, I believe.

In all, Danny Ainge has been a lot better than you give him credit for. Some duds, to be sure -- but pretty good overall.

Also, Ainge can't be blamed for all of the fluke injuries to Hayward.

[gambitx777]

That's kind of why I jumped through hoops to find a home for westbrook in my trade idea.

But I think adding drummond next to beal would be pretty good, if we could have a decent defensive point guard next to beal with an ok enough pull up kind of like lowery or someone else more affordable.

I still have hope that he's not as unmovable as many think he might be. Russ for blake also does infact make some sense for them to be honest.

Here's a trade idea I gleaned from a portion of gambitx777's idea that might make some sense for all parties:

Washington trades: Bryant, Lopez, Bertans
Washington receives: Drummond

Cleveland trades: Drummond
Cleveland receives: Bryant, Lopez, TPE

Boston trades: TPE
Boston receives: Bertans

For Washington: This deal gets us a dominant rebounder and decent defender at center, and it gets us off Bertans' deal. Lopez is inconsequential filler. The big dilemma is whether dumping Bryant is a good or bad thing. I think he is replaceable (either with a resigned Drummond at a lower cost, or with the MLE if we unload Drummond). Another issue is whether or not Drummond and Westbrook can work together. Probably not, but again, we can let Drummond walk in the offseason. This trade would be a dream if we can also trade Westbrook for Griffin.

For Cleveland: they turn Drummond into a younger and cheaper Bryant, and now they can spend a lot less money buying out Lopez.

For Boston: they add a useful player for their TPE.

Eh, the more I think about it, the more I think this isn't good for us unless we also found a way to dump Westbrook in another deal, which seems impossible at the moment.

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[nate33]

That's kind of why I jumped through hoops to find a home for westbrook in my trade idea.

But I think adding drummond next to beal would be pretty good, if we could have a decent defensive point guard next to beal with an ok enough pull up kind of like lowery or someone else more affordable.

I still have hope that he's not as unmovable as many think he might be. Russ for blake also does infact make some sense for them to be honest.

You are absolutely robbing Toronto in that trade. Propose that on the Trade Board and you would probably be banned for trolling. Kyle Lowry has significant positive value and you are asking Toronto to sacrifice a pick to turn him into Horford's bad contract. It makes no sense.

But, you are right that we would have to dump Westbrook if we were to take on Drummond, for both cap reasons and on-the-court reasons. Unfortunately, there is no way to dump Westbrook at the moment. He is the worst contract in the league. All of your past attempts at trying to trade him have been wildly lopsided. You might be able to talk yourself into thinking they're feasible, but you'll never convince the other team.

[gambitx777]

That's a fair point. I don't think george hill is going to give you much less than what lowery gives you at this point I think he can replace that, the big thing is horford, who has come back big this year and solves alot of what they are missing. but, ok value off a bit ok. have them keep the first and just do a flat swap for horford and hill. Take the extra two seconds that the wizards got in the trade I proposed and toss them to okc instead of that first. I don't think toronto gets robbed in the new version. They replace lowery and fill a big hole. I don't see lowery's trade value being high because of the lack of trade options for him atm .

Is that enough for okc to take westbrook, I think so 3 seconds and young cheep center and they exchange bad contracts I think thats a fair deal. I completely understand what you're saying about westbrooks contract but I think it's over stated a bit. Not only that but specificly for okc. They signed westbrook to the original deal. So by taking him back now, every asset they for trading him then CP3 and any associated moves. Basically came for free. There situation is different they are going in to a long term rebuild and having 1 over paid contract in the books is good for cap Ballance by the time they need to worry about paying the young guys and turning those assets into something, westbrook will be on the last year of his deal and they will have options.

I do think this trade makes Toronto better. Depends on how george hi plays obviously but he should be well rested.

So it ends up being something like this


WAS out: Ish Smith, Robin Lopez, Davis Bertans, Russell Westbrook, Thomas Bryant

WAS in: Kyle Lowry, Drummond, Ntilikina, Patrick McCaw, Ignas Brazdeikis.


CAV out: Drummond
CAV in: Ish Smith


TOR out: Kyle Lowry, Patrick McCaw.
TOR in: Al Horford, George Hill


NYK out: Ntilikina, Ignas Brazdeikis, 2 2023 2nds (Detroit & Utah), 2021 2nd (Detroit)
NYK in: Robin Lopez, Davis Bertans


OKC out: Al Horford, George Hill
OKC In: Russell Westbrook, Thomas Bryant, 2021 2nd (Detroit), 2 2023 2nds (Detroit & Utah).

That's kind of why I jumped through hoops to find a home for westbrook in my trade idea.

But I think adding drummond next to beal would be pretty good, if we could have a decent defensive point guard next to beal with an ok enough pull up kind of like lowery or someone else more affordable.

I still have hope that he's not as unmovable as many think he might be. Russ for blake also does infact make some sense for them to be honest.

You are absolutely robbing Toronto in that trade. Propose that on the Trade Board and you would probably be banned for trolling. Kyle Lowry has significant positive value and you are asking Toronto to sacrifice a pick to turn him into Horford's bad contract. It makes no sense.

But, you are right that we would have to dump Westbrook if we were to take on Drummond, for both cap reasons and on-the-court reasons. Unfortunately, there is no way to dump Westbrook at the moment. He is the worst contract in the league. All of your past attempts at trying to trade him have been wildly lopsided. You might be able to talk yourself into thinking they're feasible, but you'll never convince the other team.

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[nate33]

Ruzious and pcbothwel are getting me excited about some of the prospects in the top of the 2nd round. Unfortunately, we don't have any 2nd round picks.

If we've given up on Troy Brown, it might be time to shop him for picks. Likewise for Bonga.

The Nets have a need for decent wing depth and they still have Atlanta's 2nd round pick, currently projected at #38. They might be interested in one of our forwards.

OKC has the #31 and #36 pick, and they already have 6 guys on rookie contracts. They'll be adding two late lotto picks (the best two picks out of their's, Houston's and Miami's), and they might get Golden State's 1st if Golden State finishes with a 21-30 pick. How many can they develop at once? Would they be interested in Brown or Bonga?

New Orleans has the #33 and #34 pick and could use some wings.

[payitforward]

Ruzious and pcbothwel are getting me excited about some of the prospects in the top of the 2nd round. Unfortunately, we don't have any 2nd round picks.

We have a R2 pick coming from the Sato deal.

[NatP4]

Ruzious and pcbothwel are getting me excited about some of the prospects in the top of the 2nd round. Unfortunately, we don't have any 2nd round picks.

We have a R2 pick coming from the Sato deal.

I thought that was for 2020&2022?

[payitforward]

...If we've given up on Troy Brown, it might be time to shop him for picks. Likewise for Bonga. ...

If the FO that went "all in" on Rui, spent $2m for the chance to take Admiral, brought over Gill, etc. etc. etc. has "given up on Troy Brown," then fire the FO -- don't trade Brown. Rinse & repeat for Bonga.

...OKC has the #31 and #36 pick, and they already have 6 guys on rookie contracts....

In fact... to my shock, they seem to have 10 guys on rookie contracts! Or, at least, 10 guys out of the last 4 drafts: Justin Jackson & Isaiah Roby out of 2017, Shai G-A, Ty Jerome, Kenrich Williams, & Hamidou Diallo out of 2018, Darius Bazley, & Luguentz Dort from 2019 (Dort was undrafted). & Poku plus Theo Maledon from the last draft.

...They'll be adding two late lotto picks (the best two picks out of their's, Houston's and Miami's), and they might get Golden State's 1st if Golden State finishes with a 21-30 pick. How many can they develop at once? Would they be interested in Brown or Bonga?....

This might be an opportunity, but not to trade Brown or Bonga. This is a team, maybe the only team, that might be willing & able to absorb Bertans contract.

Their full payroll this year, 15 players, is $95m. Next year, if they pick up all their options, they'll have 12 players at just over $69m. If any team can afford to take a flyer on Davis Bertans, it's OKC.

Ideally, we'd take back George Hill, a young player & picks #31 & 36. Or maybe 1 of the picks would be farther in the future. We wouldn't extend Hill, so if they wanted him next year he'd be available.

This strikes me as the kind of deal our FO should be discussing with OKC... now!

[payitforward]

...We have a R2 pick coming from the Sato deal.

I thought that was for 2020&2022?

Right... my bad.

[nate33]

Ruzious and pcbothwel are getting me excited about some of the prospects in the top of the 2nd round. Unfortunately, we don't have any 2nd round picks.

We have a R2 pick coming from the Sato deal.

I thought that was for 2020&2022?

Yup. We traded away our 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks while dumping salaries in 2019. We have since acquired a 2020 and 2023 pick from Chicago in the Sato trade, the 2022 2nd round pick from the Lakers in the Wagner trade, and the 2024 2nd from Memphis in the Cassius Winston trade. We do not have a 2021 pick.

[gambitx777]

We can always buy one. I mean I know it's a good draft and all but some teams have tons of seconds they might sell some off.

We have a R2 pick coming from the Sato deal.

I thought that was for 2020&2022?

Yup. We traded away our 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks while dumping salaries in 2019. We have since acquired a 2020 and 2023 pick from Chicago in the Sato trade, the 2022 2nd round pick from the Lakers in the Wagner trade, and the 2024 2nd from Memphis in the Cassius Winston trade. We do not have a 2021 pick.

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[nate33]

We can always buy one. I mean I know it's a good draft and all but some teams have tons of seconds they might sell some off.

I thought that was for 2020&2022?

Yup. We traded away our 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks while dumping salaries in 2019. We have since acquired a 2020 and 2023 pick from Chicago in the Sato trade, the 2022 2nd round pick from the Lakers in the Wagner trade, and the 2024 2nd from Memphis in the Cassius Winston trade. We do not have a 2021 pick.

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True. Particularly a team like OKC with a boatload of picks and young players who are going to have trouble trying to groom them all at the same time.

I assume they'll first try to combine their 2nd rounders to trade up, but if that doesn't pan out, they might be willing to sell one.

[swisscheeseD]

Knicks fan, I come in peace (nothing Beal related, I promise)...

With Mitchell Robinson out for the next 2 months, the Knicks could look to do something to sure up the Center position.

RoLo is a former Knick, who is a perfect fit next to Randle/Obi and is right up Thibs’ alley as a serviceable vet who plays d and within the system.

Is (or could) RoLo (be) available? If so, would any of these 3 deals make sense, which would you (and the Wizards) prefer?

—-

Frank Ntilikina for Robin Lopez?

-Frank is a RFA at the end of the season and has fallen out of the rotation. A pretty solid physical perimeter defender and someone who has no issues differing offensively to guys like Russ/Beal. Would the Wizards be interested in a move for Frank, who hasn’t really been given or truly earned an opportunity thus far in NY?

Or...

Kevin Knox for Robin Lopez?

Knox, who has also fallen out of Thibs rotation, has at least looked good at times during the season, just very inconsistent. He’s cost-controlled into next season and would probably be the guy they’d rather hold onto between he and Ntilikina. Calipari said he’s a 3yr project and it’s now year 3. He’s definitely had his moments and there is still promise there.

Or...

2nd Round Pick and cap space (TPE) for Robin Lopez?

Not sure if the Wizards cap situation and if they’re in the tax. Would they prefer to simply dump for a future pick and to save a few bucks?

[gambitx777]

Hi, welcome
I think I would pass on knox we have enough young tweener 4s and wings.
I would jump on nittlkina but I would also take a second. So if the deal was for a second and the nicks wanna use nittlkina just as roster balance is take that too.

Knicks fan, I come in peace (nothing Beal related, I promise)...

With Mitchell Robinson out for the next 2 months, the Knicks could look to do something to sure up the Center position.

RoLo is a former Knick, who is a perfect fit next to Randle/Obi and is right up Thibs’ alley as a serviceable vet who plays d and within the system.

Is (or could) RoLo (be) available? If so, would any of these 3 deals make sense, which would you (and the Wizards) prefer?

—-

Frank Ntilikina for Robin Lopez?

-Frank is a RFA at the end of the season and has fallen out of the rotation. A pretty solid physical perimeter defender and someone who has no issues differing offensively to guys like Russ/Beal. Would the Wizards be interested in a move for Frank, who hasn’t really been given or truly earned an opportunity thus far in NY?

Or...

Kevin Knox for Robin Lopez?

Knox, who has also fallen out of Thibs rotation, has at least looked good at times during the season, just very inconsistent. He’s cost-controlled into next season and would probably be the guy they’d rather hold onto between he and Ntilikina. Calipari said he’s a 3yr project and it’s now year 3. He’s definitely had his moments and there is still promise there.

Or...

2nd Round Pick and cap space (TPE) for Robin Lopez?

Not sure if the Wizards cap situation and if they’re in the tax. Would they prefer to simply dump for a future pick and to save a few bucks?

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