wiz vs. celtics part dos game thread

[dobrojim]

Tonight was a good example of how Arenas could have really helped us. During most of the game, the Celtics were really pressing our guards hard. The problem was Stevenson and Daniels don't have the quickness and handles to make them pay. Arenas would have been going to the hole all night long with that kind of pressure. He would have made the Celtics pay for pressuring so much.

+1 again

Gil would have had their bigs in foul trouble big time

[newslowsad]

Tonight, the greedy winners of the Boston area watched Caron Butler establish himself as an elite player. It is absurd that it will take a coach's decision to get this kid a trip to New Orleans.

[miller31time]

Arenas would have been a huge help tonight. Remember that stretch...let's just call it quarters 1-3...when we couldn't score a point to save our lives? That wouldn't have happened with Agent Zero.

Some of you are forgetting how good our offense was with a healthy Gilbert. Our problem has always been playing defense. Well, it seems that problem has been fixed. I don't see how Arenas would hurt that.

[dobrojim]

-= original quote snipped =-



Yes. That's because it is crazy.

Gilbert isn't even in his prime yet & he gets along with his teammates. Kobe is a selfish player who has consistently alienated his teammates & created conflict on any team he's been a part of.

Where has all the love & respect for Gil gone??????

Just 2 years ago everyone on this page would never have spent a single second questioning hibachi. Let's hope he gets healthy & comes back strong for the stretch run. More importantly, let's hope he stays a wizard for years to come.

+1000000

Kobe is a piece of work that cost LA a chance for at least 3-4 more
rings. Sure he's a great player but I couldn't cheer for him with my
heart in it. No thanks.

[P'Oed]

man, ya'll are crazy on this board...I mean don't get me wrong I finally found a board with real Wiz fans but damn...we just win one of the biggest games in a long time and you guys are fighting about Arenas? Enjoy the win, we'll talk about the Arenas situation in March.

[dobrojim]

If Gilbert Arenas played in this game we would have lost. He would have shot the team out of the game.

add one to the ignore list

[dobrojim]

All of this Wizards talk and no mention of what/who REALLY won us the game - swami.

how 'bout that

good call

[newslowsad]

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Look at that determination

[Dat2U]

I thinks you may have selective Gil memory. Gil would have been jacking 30 ft 3 and arguing with the refs about every call. He would have also made a 40 pt prediction.

With GA we would have had 3 player shooting more the 17 shots each.

7-17 CB
8-21 AJ
8-21 GA

we would have been 23-59

DS wouldn't have been 4-10 and 5-7 from 3 with 16 pts and 4 steals
BH wouldn't have been 4-7 and 6-6 from the line with 14 pts

We wouldn't have played a close game but instead there would have been runs by both teams. We wouldn't have played the D we played.

GA has a long way to go before he fits in with this team and before you can say he talent and be focused to help this team be better with him then without.

You cant just take GA drives, isos to end a game and hot 3 nights without getting the rest of Gil. I doesnt work like that. Hopefully GA can change so you do get those good things along with solid D, but I have never seen that Gil before so we will have to see what he can do to change.

I'm not sure why you like bashing the best player we've had in the last 30 yrs, but it's gotten old and frankly I think your so off base that it isn't even funny.

Did you forget that Gil has been one of the most efficient offensive players in the league the past few years? He's an elite level player, yet your making him out to be a Stevie Franchise Killer or Stephon Marbury. He's not, and its not even close.

Even though he was playing hurt earlier this season we saw signs that his defense had improved. Did you also realize AD isn't necessarily the best perimeter defender in the world? I have complete confidence that Gil can return and not lose much defensively while gaining so much more offensively.

Do you even look at the games? As has been mentioned, from quarters 1 thru 3 we couldn't create any type of quality shot. Everything was forced with a hand in someone's face. Part of the reason Brendan had 5 TOs was because he was asked to do too much. Often he was given the ball in a position where he shouldn't have gotten it. This was due to the inability of guys to create a shot for themselves or others. Boston did a great job early on of forcing it out our main options and into Brendan's hands.

Yes we won, but our offense looked real bad for a good chunk of both games. I can't count how many times we needed a fadeway jumper or long distance three with a hand in the face just to beat the shot clock.

I'm excited about the prospect of this team with a healthy Gilbert. I'm not going to let your short-sightedness dampen my enthusiasm.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Mark your calendars for Wednesday, April 9 as the C

[Dat2U]

AFter holding Boston to 78 and 83 points, are the Wizards better without Gilbert?

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=738835

Honestly I think its just the wrong question to ask. I haven't disagreed with you since the old Boozer v. Kwame debate but the better question to ask is how far the Wizards can go with a healthy Gilbert.

[doclinkin]

Ditto Dat.

Frankly I'm curious what Gil will have to say about it in his next blog. I expect he'll say all the right things about his team's double-up on the C's, and be eager as all get-out to get back with the team, get in and fit in.

Ultimately wins like this go a long way to showing the Wiz as contenders and getting respect from refs and folks who watch he league. Now other boards start mentioning Brendan as a top 5 defensive center, etc. Add a _healthy_ Gil (not a foregone conclusion) and ain't no telling how far this team can go.

Are we really #6 in the league in opponent FG% right now? That's just crazy talk. Wow.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

-= original quote snipped =-



Honestly I think its just the wrong question to ask. I haven't disagreed with you since the old Boozer v. Kwame debate but the better question to ask is how far the Wizards can go with a healthy Gilbert.

Honestly Dat, I see the tempo, the quality shots, the team play and say this team would not play that way with Gilbert.

I've said repeatedly that Gil's going to make this team championship contenders.

In fact, when this team was 0-5 I created a thread that pointed to reasons to be optimistic.

When Gil first got hurt, WAY BACK IN NOVEMBER I said this could be a blessing in disguise. I said when Gil comes back this team at full strength might beat Boston (in the playoffs). I've always seen Gil being the guy to score buckets when you need them. I appreciate what Gil does.

Dat, I disagree STRONGLY that it's ridiculous or a bad question to ask if this team is better without Gil, though.

I even explained that it's due to other players expanding their games. Players who wouldn't have if Gil were here.

Honestly, I KNOW there's no way this team doesn't take more bad shots and more impatient shots with Gil. I don't think they'd beat this Boston team 2 in a row with Gil as I've seen him in the past.

I'm not being two-faced because I've felt that way all along.

I'm not trying to run a great talent out of town. I just don't like the attention seeking, outscoring mentality Gil plays. When he comes back he's going to have to adjust to the team and not the other way around.

[barelyawake]

Honestly I think its just the wrong question to ask. I haven't disagreed with you since the old Boozer v. Kwame debate but the better question to ask is how far the Wizards can go with a healthy Gilbert.

Ding ding... Winner winner...

Our team has been underrated each step of our developmental process -- which took several years. And the sport writers and statologists aren't seeing the talent and how it fits together; how that talent has developed; and why we have failed in the past. Frankly, this "surprise" season was predictable and predicted. We fixed the bench which was the thing holding us back before. We lost x number of games solely because our bench didn't fit our team before. Now, it does. We fixed our defensive schemes which were holding us back before. None of that has to do with Gil being out, and all of it was predictable and predicted based on the skill sets of the players involved. We have better distributors. We have a spark off the bench. We have those elements which we were lacking before.

Haywood has evolved as a post option with our new shooting coach teaching him shots he can hit. We never had a true post option. We never had distributing centers. Now, we have them. That changes a ton considering the o we have and opens things up considerably. It's what we have been screaming for for years, and finally have developed in Haywood and Blatche. Blatche can hit an outside shot. That adds an option we never had before. AJ can cut backdoor now and play in the post with his flip shots because our centers aren't camped in the post (because they can both distrbute and hit the ten footer). Basically, the parts are fitting the system like they were meant to all long. This is what we have been developing for years. Now, it's clicking. That was the plan. That's why we developed the players we did and drafted the guys who we did.

It's pretty easy to spot if you've watched the process over years. If you're new to the game, you're wondering why and pointing to the most obvious thing (Gil being out). When the truth is more of a gradual evolution that has been happening, which was underreported because of untimely injures. And none of those changes will revert with Gil back.

And I know CCJ you and I were both hyping this year (watching it unfold in preseason as Haywood and others showed off the skills they had developed). And I know you don't believe "we are better without Gil," what you mean is we have developed faster with Gil out, and will take an even bigger step once Gil is back. PLEASE COME BACK, GIL.

And Opec isn't even on anyone's radar yet. Seven footer with Gil's work ethic (who also can distbute, which furthers the new trend). It's only going to get better.

[lupin]

I hate following everything belatedly since I'm usually at work when the game is on but...hooray!

[greendale]

Boston's D coach earned his paycheck.

Up until the Wizards went on that final run Caron had been held in check and the Wizards were shooting in the 30s. Thibodeau is good.

But SO IS AYERS!

Agreed, that Celtic defense is quite something to behold. The Wizards were doing a decent job of closing out on the shooters. The Celts on the other hand were bodying up on the shooters before they had a chance to even think about shooting.

Ray Allen is looking like Mitch Richmond in his final season here.

[Wiz99]

Time for me to dig up my "Anti-Wiz Media" thread...

You think if someone had beat the Patriots during their 16-0 run it would be frontpage news on ESPN?

So how come it isn't when the Celts - preordained representatives of the East in the Finals and with the NBA version of a dominant record - get shellacked two in a row?

It's not even the lead story in BSPN's NBA section. The lead story is still the Power Rankings (which put the Celts at #1.) When you do find the story, the headline is "Cs suffer first two game slide". No mention of who did this to them. Like the Ls just came out of the blue, and it wasn't the Wizards that handed them their ass twice, playing with more heart, more grit, more desire and, quite frankly, our star (Caron) was better than theirs (KG). You see how KG totally clanked that turnaround shot to tie the game, while Caron was a cold blooded killer?

Bah! No respect.

[dandridge 10]

Tonight was a good example of how Arenas could have really helped us. During most of the game, the Celtics were really pressing our guards hard. The problem was Stevenson and Daniels don't have the quickness and handles to make them pay. Arenas would have been going to the hole all night long with that kind of pressure. He would have made the Celtics pay for pressuring so much.

I thinks you may have selective Gil memory. Gil would have been jacking 30 ft 3 and arguing with the refs about every call. He would have also made a 40 pt prediction.

With GA we would have had 3 player shooting more the 17 shots each.

7-17 CB
8-21 AJ
8-21 GA

we would have been 23-59

DS wouldn't have been 4-10 and 5-7 from 3 with 16 pts and 4 steals
BH wouldn't have been 4-7 and 6-6 from the line with 14 pts

We wouldn't have played a close game but instead there would have been runs by both teams. We wouldn't have played the D we played.

GA has a long way to go before he fits in with this team and before you can say he talent and be focused to help this team be better with him then without.

You cant just take GA drives, isos to end a game and hot 3 nights without getting the rest of Gil. I doesnt work like that. Hopefully GA can change so you do get those good things along with solid D, but I have never seen that Gil before so we will have to see what he can do to change.

Sounds like you think you have telepathy. Glad you can predict what would have happened with Gil in the line-up. Actually, it seems like you have selective memory. Gil didn't just hoist up 30 ft jump shots. One of Gil's greatest strengths was driving to the hoop and was quite effective in getting to the charity stripe. My point was, in this particular game, with the Celtics pressing so hard, Gilbert would have made us much more dangerous. Gil has his warts, I'll admit that. However, you make in sound like a cancer on his team, in the same realm of Starbury and the likes. That is just ridiculous. Your hate for him is starting to cloud your judgment.

I'm amazed how many people are talking about how good the Wizards are without Arenas. But, in the same breath, they don't mention we have a far better bench this season, a far better Haywood, a far better defensive coach in Ayers, and an improved Butler. Don't you think these might be the reasons for our recent success as opposed to Gilbert's absence.

[crackhed]

Honestly Dat, I see the tempo, the quality shots, the team play and say this team would not play that way with Gilbert.

I've said repeatedly that Gil's going to make this team championship contenders.

In fact, when this team was 0-5 I created a thread that pointed to reasons to be optimistic.

When Gil first got hurt, WAY BACK IN NOVEMBER I said this could be a blessing in disguise. I said when Gil comes back this team at full strength might beat Boston (in the playoffs). I've always seen Gil being the guy to score buckets when you need them. I appreciate what Gil does.

Dat, I disagree STRONGLY that it's ridiculous or a bad question to ask if this team is better without Gil, though.

I even explained that it's due to other players expanding their games. Players who wouldn't have if Gil were here.

Honestly, I KNOW there's no way this team doesn't take more bad shots and more impatient shots with Gil. I don't think they'd beat this Boston team 2 in a row with Gil as I've seen him in the past.

I'm not being two-faced because I've felt that way all along.

I'm not trying to run a great talent out of town. I just don't like the attention seeking, outscoring mentality Gil plays. When he comes back he's going to have to adjust to the team and not the other way around.

again, i just dont see how u can argue that gilbert will improve this team and make it a championship contender while simultaneously arguing that the team plays better without him. u cant have it both ways.

anyway this is a manufactured debate that serves no purpose imo.