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Long Term Plan? (merged threads)

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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#341 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:13 am

pancakes3 wrote:First off, what system is Amare benefitting from? He's putting up 20/8 both under D'antoni's run and gun system and terry porter's slowed down offense. He's played both as Center and PF, going up against the western conference elite and does a damn good job. He's got legitimate inside and outside offensive skills (more complete than garnett and nowitzki imo) and is only 26 years old. I don't see him collapsing like a house of cards once he leaves phoenix.


Co-sign. Amare is no longer the guy with nothing but a power dunk in his bag of tricks. He can score inside and outside now. He's also shown that he can defend at times (I seem to recall him playing Duncan very well in the playoffs). If nothing else his size and shot blocking make him a better defender than Jamison by default. I like the idea of dealing for Amare as much as Bosh, and definitely more than Brand.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#342 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:26 am

pancakes3 wrote:
Third off, how can you make the case that AK-47 won't adjust to life in DC? What cultural adaption are you talking about? I'm at a loss for words to compose a rational rebuttal.


Yeah, Salt Lake City is THE place Russian ex-pats relocate to. Not like there are any other Russian stars in DC who AK would vibe with. :lol: :lol: :lol: pancakes, save your brain and put him on ignore.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#343 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:27 am

LyricalRico wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:First off, what system is Amare benefitting from? He's putting up 20/8 both under D'antoni's run and gun system and terry porter's slowed down offense. He's played both as Center and PF, going up against the western conference elite and does a damn good job. He's got legitimate inside and outside offensive skills (more complete than garnett and nowitzki imo) and is only 26 years old. I don't see him collapsing like a house of cards once he leaves phoenix.


Co-sign. Amare is no longer the guy with nothing but a power dunk in his bag of tricks. He can score inside and outside now. He's also shown that he can defend at times (I seem to recall him playing Duncan very well in the playoffs). If nothing else his size and shot blocking make him a better defender than Jamison by default. I like the idea of dealing for Amare as much as Bosh, and definitely more than Brand.


I'd still prefer Bosh because of his defense, but I'd happily take Amare. he'd be a big upgrade over Jamison.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#344 » by Halcyon » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:59 am

I definitely would prefer Bosh, then Amare. AK47 I love as a player and would probably fit well as a defensive PF and super utility player, but it seems like this guy is a brittle fellow. He plays like 70 games, and is nicked up for a few more as well.

At least with Bosh and Amare you know you'll get a know offensive player, with enough athletic ability to be decent defenders.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#345 » by WizarDynasty » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:05 am

this guy fisher..needs to get off my nutsacks..i'm hetero buddy lmao :lol: but yeah i would definitely take Amare over Jamison duh. But what is it going to take to get amare. If we get the number one pick..i would definitely take griffin over amare. I might keep Aminu if i don't get the overall number one pick over amare. AK47 has had some clashes with his team mates like Deron Williams. But a guy like AK47 at the s/f spot is exactly what this team needs for its perimeter defense which is why i love aminu..who will be a better version of him since aminu can hit shots off the dribble.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#346 » by doclinkin » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:39 am

Yahoo article.

Besides, even if the whole gang does eventually get back together, would they be the same? That, to paraphrase Jamison, is the $64,000 question.

“With Gilbert healthy, DeShawn, we are a better team. We are a playoff-caliber team,” Jamison said. “The question is, are we a championship-caliber team? That’s the question that pops off: When everybody’s healthy, can the organization, can this team bring a championship here? That’s what I want to see.”

Actually, it’s the $161 million question.

Wizards president of basketball operations Ernie Grunfeld was so sure of the plan that he bet the future of the franchise on it when he signed Arenas to a six-year, $111 million contract and Jamison to a four-year, $50 million deal during the offseason. Grunfeld has attempted to downplay Arenas’ absence by citing the six-year commitment, yet this lost season means that 17 percent of that commitment has already gone to waste.

Also, there’s no guarantee that Arenas will be the same, buzzer-beating Agent Zero when he returns from such a major injury. Plus, there’s one key component that won’t be coming back at all: Grunfeld fired Jordan after a 1-10 start and hired old friend Ed Tapscott as the interim coach, a move easy to second-guess considering that Tapscott’s record is 8-25.

Still, the team has little option rather than stay the course and wait for the injured players to return.

Jamison: “Give me Gilbert healthy for a full season, and I’ll take that rather than taking a trade. That’s a big improvement, if he can get back to the way he was.”

Stevenson: “We’ve got to give it at least one more try. We keep saying this, and everybody gets hurt, but we’ve just got to try one more time and see everybody on the court.”

Butler: “We’re a dangerous squad, but it hasn’t happened in a long time. You want to get everybody healthy, but how long do you hold on to that? I don’t know. That’s management.”


We hear the assumption all over various jabberbox outlets that the Wiz are likely to blow the thing up in the offseason. I still have an inkling that I'd love to see what we look like with healthy personnel (+ a pick).

Though obviously the Coaching situation has altered. I don't see any quality Princeton candidates in the Pro's though (other than Europe) and our roster is built to take advantage of outside shooting (to open things up for perimeter drivers-- but only when Gil is in the game I guess; we need another slasher at the 2).

Record notwithstanding, I still like the squad. Assuming all return to full health...
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#347 » by hands11 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:13 pm

This is the converging forces.

Tanking verses recovering. Highest pick possible vs knowing what you have and recovering.

The All-Star Break is in 2 weeks. After that we should start to see more of what they are thinking.

For me, they need to get Haywood and GA back out there to see what this thing is going to look like.

GA has had more then enough time to recover. At this point they are just hiding him because they are tanking and they don't have a center. So one way of doing this is the bring back GA when Haywood is ready.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#348 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:45 pm

Whatever the plan is (rebuild or stay the course), the one thing that is certain is that this season is a lost cause. I can understand the desire to cater to Jamison's and Butler's pride and give them the opportunity to carry the team; but it obviously isn't working. There is no logical reason to play them 40 minutes a game anymore.

It's long past time to play the youngsters heavy minutes. They'll either succeed and build confidence, or fail and embarrass themselves into working harder. Either way, it's gotta be better than what we've seen so far.

It's reallly sad that it's come to this, but I'm getting close to the point where I'm hoping for a minor injury to Butler and Jamison. Something has to force Tapscott to abandon the "play the vets" strategy.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#349 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:02 pm

Tapscott has little intestinal fortitude and he's possibly more foolish than EJ with respect to veteran mintues. He's not even trying to tank. He just foolishly believes the veterans are more productive.

Jamison's played harder than Butler. If it's about pride play Jamison a bit more minutes than Butler because Jamsion's showed more pride.

If it's about common sense, play them both less minutes. Hold both guys acoountable for the sorry record. Quit living in the past and quit kissing their asses. Call them out of any delusional thinking regarding the all star game. Caron isn't even playing well MOST of the time as far as I'm concerned.

Right now, I've reached the point of thinking let it play out the way it's going to play out. Let Tapscott play Jamison til his wheels fall off. Let Caron's attitude come completely to the forefront. He is a shotjacker who has no pride on defense this season. His defense has ALWAYS been overrated. Let Tapscott be the jerk that he appears to be. Play the old guys and punk the young guys. Don't even notice the young guys are better. All those minutes to Jamison, Butler, Songaila, James are just absurdly stupid. James' trade value has peaked and everybody knows what Darirus and the two "all stars" have to offer. This is frustrating ....

I'm still a fan, but they've ruined just about any and all enjoyment this season. Wake me up .... next season.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#350 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:07 pm

nate33 wrote:It's reallly sad that it's come to this, but I'm getting close to the point where I'm hoping for a minor injury to Butler and Jamison. Something has to force Tapscott to abandon the "play the vets" strategy.


Honestly, I'd like to see no Jamison or Butler the rest of the year. It's pointless them being on the court. Them dominating the ball, taking the big shots, and playing no defense is counterproductive.

In addition to not having Butler or Jamison, I'd like to see a teaching coach who can encourage the young guys. Get rid of Tapscott, too.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#351 » by miller31time » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:11 pm

Figures that the only time Caron isn't injured is when he needs to be.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#352 » by Ji » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:38 am

I think we need to shutdown AJ and Butler but we need to bring Arenas back to see if he has any game. He has too absolutely come back because I want to see what he has. What is taking him so long? His injury was so minor
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#353 » by mhd » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:31 am

Arenas was playing pretty darn well last year at the end of the year.

Game 1: 17 points in 20 minutes
Game 2: 13 points, 8 dimes in 20 minutes
Game 3: 13 points in 24 minutes
Game 4: 10 points in 19 minutes
Game 5: 20 points, 7 boards, 5 assists in 25 minutes
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#354 » by mhd » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:33 am

Regarding the need for a longterm SG who can handle, shoot, and pass. John Salmons sounds like the perfect fit. He's got a very good contract. Rumors are that he moaps if he doesn't start. Well, he'd start here and be the primary defender.

I'd try and trade Jamison in a potential 3-way with Sac-town and Portland.

Portland gets Jamison, Kings get Raef and Outlaw, We get Bobby Jackson and Salmons.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#355 » by miller31time » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:34 am

mhd wrote:Arenas was playing pretty darn well last year at the end of the year.

Game 1: 17 points in 20 minutes
Game 2: 13 points, 8 dimes in 20 minutes
Game 3: 13 points in 24 minutes
Game 4: 10 points in 19 minutes
Game 5: 20 points, 7 boards, 5 assists in 25 minutes


And he was, what, 70% at best? I think the NBA is going to be really surprised when Arenas comes back.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#356 » by miller31time » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:35 am

mhd wrote:Regarding the need for a longterm SG who can handle, shoot, and pass. John Salmons sounds like the perfect fit. He's got a very good contract. Rumors are that he moaps if he doesn't start. Well, he'd start here and be the primary defender.

I'd try and trade Jamison in a potential 3-way with Sac-town and Portland.

Portland gets Jamison, Kings get Raef and Outlaw, We get Bobby Jackson and Salmons.


From what all of the Kings fans say, Bobby Jackson is untouchable. Not because he's any great talent or anything, but he returned to the Kings because he wants to be an assistant coach there when he retires (which will be very soon). They have absolutely no plans on trading him (from my understanding).
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#357 » by mhd » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:13 am

miller31time wrote:
mhd wrote:Regarding the need for a longterm SG who can handle, shoot, and pass. John Salmons sounds like the perfect fit. He's got a very good contract. Rumors are that he moaps if he doesn't start. Well, he'd start here and be the primary defender.

I'd try and trade Jamison in a potential 3-way with Sac-town and Portland.

Portland gets Jamison, Kings get Raef and Outlaw, We get Bobby Jackson and Salmons.


From what all of the Kings fans say, Bobby Jackson is untouchable. Not because he's any great talent or anything, but he returned to the Kings because he wants to be an assistant coach there when he retires (which will be very soon). They have absolutely no plans on trading him (from my understanding).


I think Miiki Morre is expiring too (team option), so he could be swapped instead.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#358 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:40 am

mhd wrote:Regarding the need for a longterm SG who can handle, shoot, and pass. John Salmons sounds like the perfect fit. He's got a very good contract. Rumors are that he moaps if he doesn't start. Well, he'd start here and be the primary defender.

I'd try and trade Jamison in a potential 3-way with Sac-town and Portland.

Portland gets Jamison, Kings get Raef and Outlaw, We get Bobby Jackson and Salmons.

That's a great idea mhd! I love it!

Trade Jamison for Salmons and a little cap relief. That'd be perfect if we end up drafting a PF (Griffin, Hill or Monroe) this summer. If we can follow up by dumping Stevenson to LA for expirings, we'd be sitting pretty next year:

PG Arenas/James/Crittenton
SG Salmons/Young
SF Butler/McGuire
PF Blatche/lotto pick/Songaila
C Haywood/McGee/Pecherov

That's a much better defensive lineup. And it has versatile, prototypical players at every position except PG so a new coach could run practically any offensive system he wants. Also, Salmons' and Butler's passing abilities compensate for Arenas being a shoot-first PG. The balance is perfect.

This is my new favorite trade scenario.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#359 » by WashWiz54 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:53 am

The Kings are my team I follow after the Wizards, so I see John Salmons a lot and he is a baller. I remember going to the Wizard game two-years ago and he hit a last second shot to "tie" it. Unfortunately, his foot ended up being on the line but regardless the guy can play ball. He's one of if not the most underrated players in the L today. He's going to cost us an asset (or taking back a Beno Udrich), but he's certainly worth it.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#360 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:40 am

mhd wrote:Regarding the need for a longterm SG who can handle, shoot, and pass. John Salmons sounds like the perfect fit. He's got a very good contract. Rumors are that he moaps if he doesn't start. Well, he'd start here and be the primary defender.

I'd try and trade Jamison in a potential 3-way with Sac-town and Portland.

Portland gets Jamison, Kings get Raef and Outlaw, We get Bobby Jackson and Salmons.

This is a good trade with the exception that I don't see Portland dropping Outlaw to get Jamiison.

I've mentioned Salmons before, too, as a real good guard to pair with Gil. I like this deal, mhd.

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