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wizards-fan wrote:

doclinkin wrote:If we're going with a veteran, Rudy T is the best available.

Rudy T is done, at least as a coach.

"I love the game, I absolutely love it," he notes. "I love the preparation for games, I love the games themselves. But dealing with the stress -- just the travel alone -- would be too much after the things I've been through. Part of me would like to get that thing stirred up again, but I can't. I just can't do it."

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/27 ... sp-crowe27

I was all ready to praise Doc for idea of the year until I read this. Seems pretty conclusive. As a coach, I know that once you've lost that almost obsessive desire, you've lost it all.

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:As a coach, I know that once you've lost that almost obsessive desire, you've lost it all.

And I think you would be taking a chance that he could do what he did at the Lakers, which is to walk away mid-season after being coaxed into returning. His stated reasons were health-related but not tied to his bladder cancer (IOW general fatigue/exhaustion). He's resigned during a season before, and that was four long years ago. So he could do it again. I'm pretty sure that given all the positive changes he's made -- and the importance of the next few seasons for the Wizards -- that there are better options.

eltacoman wrote:i hope we bring TT as our coach ... but all the drama that happen before it might make TT just try to avoid us ... so if we bring Flip in a proven vet coach that Ernie wants then that would not be bad at all

Either one would obviously be fine with most here. That said, I doubt TT hold anything against EG for what happened. If anything, EJ not being here would be a good thing since I'm pretty sure that is what got in the way last time.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

doclinkin wrote:

pancakes3 wrote:bring ej back

Heh. As Tom Thibodeaux's offensive assistant.

If not for egos and the wierdness of it all that would be the best idea of all.

Let be honest for a moment here. That would most likely be the last thing they would do.

Fact is, the Abe, EJ, EG thing didn't work. It was dysfunctional. The fact that we untied that knot this year was actually one of our core successes for this season.

2nd is probably the final step of this franchise and the players on it truly valuing Haywood. He is officially on equal footing with CB, AJ and GA. That means no more big 3 and it means we will focus more of the post game and post players. Much like the Celtics needed to transition from a outside shooting team, we are now more complete.

They not only would never go back to EJ, it would also be a very back thing and a step backward.

We are moving forward and we will be better off for it. Once we have a new coach and we start winning again, people will starts to forget the EJ thing and people will better see how much better of we are without him here. He served his purpose here for a year or two. He was a decent fit back them and probably the best we could get. Now we can do better.

More Flip talk from ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4062098

Flip is going to be a good hire. He's not going to refuse to play Haywood. He won't play Hayes at the PF spot.

Saunders appears to be a lock to be our coach next year. Anyone knows what kind of offense he runs?

All I ask for is a creative coach who will not hesitate to sit vets who are having an off night. Plays to OUR strengths. Sets rotations based upon our best match-ups.

I remember the DET boards hating on him, but I don't recall the issues.

closg00 wrote:<snip>
I remember the DET boards hating on him, but I don't recall the issues.

Not making it past the ECF?

As long as you're not hoping for tough defense, gritty rebounding, and inside-out play, Saunders is a good choice. I'm not being sarcastic even though it sounds like I am. I think he'll do fine with a guy like Arenas at the center of the system, in fact his offensive system is basically predicated around finding the best jumpshot, which should suit a guy like Arenas well.

closg00 wrote:Saunders appears to be a lock to be our coach next year. Anyone knows what kind of offense he runs?

Yeah he basically forces the team to become a jump shooting team.

closg00 wrote:All I ask for is a creative coach who will not hesitate to sit vets who are having an off night. Plays to OUR strengths. Sets rotations based upon our best match-ups.

Pistons' old strength was defense, but he swayed away from that.

closg00 wrote:I remember the DET boards hating on him, but I don't recall the issues.

He COULD never win Game 6 in the ECF finals. Lost against Cleveland and Boston. Also, he would never play the BENCH. They said he developed Kevin Garnett, but for some reason couldn't develop Darko, Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell, or Arron Afflalo BECAUSE he never played them except if the Pistons were blowing out the team. Oh, and he didn't make the team hungry anymore. Not a good motivation speaker in the locker room.

I guess us Pistons fans hate is strong for him, because we did get coach by Larry Brown. But Flip Saunders did more damage then good.

He was also the reason why Ben Wallace left DET and went to Chicago.

I'm not stoked about this Saunders talk. He's not awful, but I don't really see what makes him all that different or better than EJ.

Latinoking90 wrote:

closg00 wrote:Saunders appears to be a lock to be our coach next year. Anyone knows what kind of offense he runs?

Yeah he basically forces the team to become a jump shooting team.

closg00 wrote:All I ask for is a creative coach who will not hesitate to sit vets who are having an off night. Plays to OUR strengths. Sets rotations based upon our best match-ups.

Pistons' old strength was defense, but he swayed away from that.

closg00 wrote:I remember the DET boards hating on him, but I don't recall the issues.

He COULD never win Game 6 in the ECF finals. Lost against Cleveland and Boston. Also, he would never play the BENCH. They said he developed Kevin Garnett, but for some reason couldn't develop Darko, Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell, or Arron Afflalo BECAUSE he never played them except if the Pistons were blowing out the team. Oh, and he didn't make the team hungry anymore. Not a good motivation speaker in the locker room.

I guess us Pistons fans hate is strong for him, because we did get coach by Larry Brown. But Flip Saunders did more damage then good.

He was also the reason why Ben Wallace left DET and went to Chicago.

Thanks for bumming me out dude, Flip sounds like a EJ re-run

What the Pistons fans are saying about Flip is about what I thought of Flip - a good offensive coach who wasn't tough enough on defense.

Sounds like a slightly better version of EJ, to me. Maybe Flip (since he is better than EJ) will get us to the 2nd round and just not about to make the 3rd round in his tenure.

I'm predicting November 17, 2009 as the date the first "Flip Must Be Fired...RIGHT NOW!!!" thread goes up.

I think it's all about the assistants then. Flip needs to bring in a defensive guru if he's just going to be a slight upgrade to Eddie. What are the odds if Thibs being our defensive coach if we offer him more money than what he's getting in Boston?

Why am I not surprised? This team making a ballsy move is impossible.

IMO Detroit fans rejected Saunders because they had just won a championship with a certain identity, and everyone (including the players) had become attached to that identity for obvious reasons. It even sounds like some of the players felt guilty after the fact that they didn't give it a enough of a chance. But Flip failed to get to the Finals because his teams weren't capable of overachieving despite the fact that they didn't have a Top 10 player/HOF talent like the teams they faced (Lebron, Wade, Shaq, Garnett) ... which is something Detroit had become accustomed to under Larry Brown. (But it's hardly the norm for that to happen, so it was a bit of a unrealistic expectation to begin with IMO)

But the point to me is that Flip is still the most qualified candidate, and Detroit had some pretty ridiculous success under his coaching regime. Given their tradition of success in the NBA and recent championship, they could be excused for rebelling against someone like Saunders. But as Wizards fans? If over the next 3 seasons we win our division 3 straight times, getting the #1 seed in the playoffs twice (and #2 the other), and make the Eastern Conference Finals 3 straight times while winning 72% of our games with 9 All-Star appearances ... I mean we'd have to be crazy to complain after all that. This is the Bullets/Wizards we're talking about. That's the type of success that we haven't had here in a long time.

Everything I've heard about Saunder's philosophy fits this Wizards team as presently constructed. He's shown he can win bunches of games playing the style of ball that this team is built to play (Blake Griffin or no Blake Griffin). Since we have no reason to believe the roster will change drastically over the next few years, I see no problem with hiring someone who will coach to our strengths, while we try to address our weaknesses on defense through other means.

wizards-fan wrote:IMO Detroit fans rejected Saunders because they had just won a championship with a certain identity, and everyone (including the players) had become attached to that identity for obvious reasons. It even sounds like some of the players felt guilty after the fact that they didn't give it a enough of a chance. But Flip failed to get to the Finals because his teams weren't capable of overachieving despite the fact that they didn't have a Top 10 player/HOF talent like the teams they faced (Lebron, Wade, Shaq, Garnett) ... which is something Detroit had become accustomed to under Larry Brown. (But it's hardly the norm for that to happen, so it was a bit of a unrealistic expectation to begin with IMO)

But the point to me is that Flip is still the most qualified candidate, and Detroit had some pretty ridiculous success under his coaching regime. Given their tradition of success in the NBA and recent championship, they could be excused for rebelling against someone like Saunders. But as Wizards fans? If over the next 3 seasons we win our division 3 straight times, getting the #1 seed in the playoffs twice (and #2 the other), and make the Eastern Conference Finals 3 straight times while winning 72% of our games with 9 All-Star appearances ... I mean we'd have to be crazy to complain after all that. This is the Bullets/Wizards we're talking about. That's the type of success that we haven't had here in a long time.

Everything I've heard about Saunder's philosophy fits this Wizards team as presently constructed. He's shown he can win bunches of games playing the style of ball that this team is built to play (Blake Griffin or no Blake Griffin). Since we have no reason to believe the roster will change drastically over the next few years, I see no problem with hiring someone who will coach to our strengths, while we try to address our weaknesses on defense through other means.

Great post, wizard fan.

The Pistons essentially had nowhere to go but down when Flip took them over. They had a tradition of defensive success and championship expectations. Filp wasn't the coach for that team in the playoffs, yet he won a ton of games in the regular season and did at least take them to the eastern conference finals.

With the Wizards Flip's inheriting a 19 or 20 win team. Nowhere to go but up. Way up. First round exit would be okay if this team appears to play to potential. Just making the playoffs will probably be enough next season. An eastern finals next season and Flip would be a hero.

I believe Detroit fans that have posted here. I would have rather had a "ballsy" hire. An innovator who would tighten up the defense would really shake things up. But this time, I'm on board with Grunfeld's decision if Flip's the choice. The guy wins games in the regular season and the playoffs.

I'm thinking 2-3 years from now the Wizards might need another guy to take them over the top, but Flip's fine until then. Also, if the Wizards get Griffin they become more than a jump shooting team, and Flip could really hit the jackpot.

I think if anything else, Flip has proven he can take a 50 win team and win 55 games with them. I don't see us underachieving under him, and I think just winning 45-50 win games with this current Wizards team would be pretty damn good. The Wizards now need probably a year or two just to establish themselves as a team that can get past the first round.

Some people are looking too far ahead, as in, will Flip be able to get us to the NBA Finals. Will he give us a top level defense? Baby steps people, we're not winning a title next year. But I could see Flip at some point getting us to the Eastern Conference Finals, and at that point than we may need somebody else to get us to a higher level.

But for now, I think he's a good hire. I think he's a big fan of Arenas and will know how to use him best.

Flip didn't have playoff success in MN because it was a one man team. The one year they had semi competent help w/ old Cassell and old Spree, they got the the WCF but all the PGs got injured and KG and Fred Hoiberg were playing PG.

Detroit became complacent and overconfident by the time Flip arrived. Easy to blame Flip, but he never ordered them to stop playing hard defense. Thats the players' faults, they lost their hunger.


He doesn't play youngsters though, Javale better go shopping for suits.

Maybe he has a defensive scheme that maximizes our potential on defense? We know Dominic and Haywood can defend, its the other 10 or 11 guys that I'm worried about.