General (Non-Wiz) Draft Discussion

[pancakes3]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... _entering/

red flag for some on this board... nothing of consequence to others.

[closg00]

Good, nice Wiretap story pumping Habeet, not that he needed further pumping-up, but the more his stock raises, the better for us if we get the 3rd pick for trading Please let us get the #1 and drop no-further than 3.
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... ue_center/

[Brenice]

If they get 1, obviously draft Blake. 2. Draft Rubio. 3. Draft Thabeet to groom and succeed Haywood eventually. He could turn into Dikembe, who was the #4 pick of his draft. I see Javale as a 7ft version of Ralph Sampson running the court for alley-oops at the 4 position(Akeem was the 5). If they get the 4th or 5th pick, pray.

[closg00]

A contrarian view of Stephen Curry.
http://www.probasketballnews.com/story/?storyid=308

[Ruzious]

A contrarian view of Stephen Curry.
http://www.probasketballnews.com/story/?storyid=308

A nonsensical article - though I agree with the conclusion.

[Ruzious]

Last nights game-7 is Exhibit-A of what will be Blair's limitations at the NBA level. Big-Baby (better all-round player and good comparison) repeatedly either got his shot swatted-away from a taller Noah, or he didn't have the lift to dunk or finish around a better positioned big. Sure BB got his share of points, but Boston was forced to send in Mikki Moore to stop the abuse.

Speaking of Noah, how good was he this season - and especially in the playoffs - averaging 10 points, 13 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game, while getting 16 assists vs only 8 to's. He was a defensive force, and his ability to run the court and hustle like no other big man was on full display. He'll never be a big scorer, but he does everything else to help his team win.

[fishercob]

Really makes me hopeful for Javizzle McGizzle.

[Dat2U]

Last nights game-7 is Exhibit-A of what will be Blair's limitations at the NBA level. Big-Baby (better all-round player and good comparison) repeatedly either got his shot swatted-away from a taller Noah, or he didn't have the lift to dunk or finish around a better positioned big. Sure BB got his share of points, but Boston was forced to send in Mikki Moore to stop the abuse.

Speaking of Noah, how good was he this season - and especially in the playoffs - averaging 10 points, 13 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game, while getting 16 assists vs only 8 to's. He was a defensive force, and his ability to run the court and hustle like no other big man was on full display. He'll never be a big scorer, but he does everything else to help his team win.

I thought Noah always had that in him. He played exactly like how I thought his career would be. He's a perfect fit beside Miller and with Noah's offensive limitations, he needs a skilled guy like Miller to really be effective. I like Tyrus Thomas too but Thomas & Noah are just too limited to really work well together. Chicago has to think seriously about trading one of the two this offseason.

Imagine how good Chicago would have been had they just kept Aldridge instead of trading for Thomas. A Noah & Aldridge frontline would have been sick.

[closg00]

Blair's name came-up a bunch on today's ESPN chat with Thorpe

ryan toledo ohio [via mobile]: if you were the gm of the chicago bulls what is the move that could be made to make them legit title contenders next season?

David Thorpe: (12:07 PM ET ) Trade up and grab DaJuan Blair. He's the answer to their prayers.

Jack (Northbrook): What do you think of Dajuan Blair? I see a better version of Big Baby.

David Thorpe: (12:12 PM ET ) More like Boozer and Jefferson. Outrageously athletic.

Simao (Porto, Portugal): Follow up to that Bulls - DaJuan Blair question. Why trade up? Do you think he is a top 15 pick? I like him very much also but I was thinking that there would be no problem to get him...

David Thorpe: (12:15 PM ET ) 4 or 5 teams drafting ahead of Chicago like him a lot too.

Andrew (Woodstock GA): Thorpe, who do you think is going to be the biggest surprise in this year's draft class? Any love for Patty Mills?

David Thorpe: (12:46 PM ET ) Not really. Curry, Blair both will be better than people think.

[Dat2U]

David Thorpe is probably my favorite NBA expert on ESPN. He's one of the few that actually knows his stuff. Especially when it comes to the draft and the young NBA'ers since he often works with them. I'm encouraged that he llikes Curry alot and although I like Blair, I may have been undervaluing him as Danny Fortson 2.0 if Thorpe loves him so much.

[pancakes3]

Thorpe is definitely one of the more informed NBA analysts ESPN has. Hubie Brown is the most intelligent commentator. Outside of those two, I don't really put TOO much stock in what they have to say. I am curious as to what "outrageously athletic" means. Strength? Unassuming agility?

[Benjammin]

Let's not be so quick to give kudos to Mr. Thorpe. Dajuan Blair is a client of his workout academy. Can you say "conflict of interest" when Mr. Thorpe touts Blair's virtues? I like Blair a lot, but Thorpe's opinion is anything but disinterested.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Last nights game-7 is Exhibit-A of what will be Blair's limitations at the NBA level. Big-Baby (better all-round player and good comparison) repeatedly either got his shot swatted-away from a taller Noah, or he didn't have the lift to dunk or finish around a better positioned big. Sure BB got his share of points, but Boston was forced to send in Mikki Moore to stop the abuse.

Speaking of Noah, how good was he this season - and especially in the playoffs - averaging 10 points, 13 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game, while getting 16 assists vs only 8 to's. He was a defensive force, and his ability to run the court and hustle like no other big man was on full display. He'll never be a big scorer, but he does everything else to help his team win.

I thought Noah always had that in him. He played exactly like how I thought his career would be. He's a perfect fit beside Miller and with Noah's offensive limitations, he needs a skilled guy like Miller to really be effective. I like Tyrus Thomas too but Thomas & Noah are just too limited to really work well together. Chicago has to think seriously about trading one of the two this offseason.

Imagine how good Chicago would have been had they just kept Aldridge instead of trading for Thomas. A Noah & Aldridge frontline would have been sick.

Good points, Dat. Chicago did blow it on Aldridge. Noah and Tyrus are too much alike.

The Wizards are the ideal trading partner to the Bulls, IMO.

Antawn and DeShawn for Kirk and Tyrus seems to me to be a good deal for both teams.

[LyricalRico]

Antawn and DeShawn for Kirk and Tyrus seems to me to be a good deal for both teams.

Nice value but wouldn't we then have the same problem with Haywood/Tyrus playing together? And how would that jive with our draft options? I just don't see that working out for us.

[nate33]

I have no interest in Thomas. Jamison for Hinrich is something I'd strongly consider, particularly if we landed Griffin (or traded Rubio for Bosh).

[spaceman_E]

I can just tell that Blair's enthusiasm, intelligence, and confidence will enable him to develop a jump shot, too.

I think that is a bit overly optimistic considering I read an article that said he took the least amount of jump shots of any PF/C prospect in the draft. I guess you could say that he was too effective down low to be taking them in college but it sure sounds like he's a long way off. This isn't to say he won't be good but I just think it limits his potential quite a bit.


Also, I really think you guys are underrating James Harden. I see him as a Mitch Richmond type. Very good scorer and shooter but can also rebound and pass it a bit. He's obviously not going to be confused with a defensive stopper or athletic freak but should still be really good. I also think he will slide a bit as all the teams slotted 3-8 don't figure to take him. I think a good fit would be the Nets to replace VC. If we slide to the 5th pick though, I would probably draft him and not look back. Down the road we'd then have the option of dealing Caron/Antawn

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

spaceman_E, I'd rather have Curry or Blair at #5 but you could turn out to be right about Harden.

I NEVER mention Harden and others have panned him as not athletic. Surely, Harden's the least respected lotto pick on the Wizards board. His Pac 10 success would tend to support your approval, spaceman. Those type numbers generally translate to NBA success.

Guys with a similar NCAA impact to me were Josh Childress and Micheal Redd. Harden rebounds it well like Childress. Gets to the line a ton like Redd. Harden's like a cross between those two statistically. And he's young, which I would say bodes well for him improving.

Harden could pan out. I know Dat doesn't like him and Dat's a lot more up on this draft than I am. So, I admit to listening to others on Harden. Plus, my guy Morris Almond was one who scored a lot from the line in the NCAAs and who rebounded well in college, but not in the NBA.

[Ruzious]

I can just tell that Blair's enthusiasm, intelligence, and confidence will enable him to develop a jump shot, too.

I think that is a bit overly optimistic considering I read an article that said he took the least amount of jump shots of any PF/C prospect in the draft. I guess you could say that he was too effective down low to be taking them in college but it sure sounds like he's a long way off. This isn't to say he won't be good but I just think it limits his potential quite a bit.


Also, I really think you guys are underrating James Harden. I see him as a Mitch Richmond type. Very good scorer and shooter but can also rebound and pass it a bit. He's obviously not going to be confused with a defensive stopper or athletic freak but should still be really good. I also think he will slide a bit as all the teams slotted 3-8 don't figure to take him. I think a good fit would be the Nets to replace VC. If we slide to the 5th pick though, I would probably draft him and not look back. Down the road we'd then have the option of dealing Caron/Antawn

Watching Denver bully New Orleans, I pictured Blair doing what KMart did to West - just physically beat him up. And Blair's a better rebounder than KMart. Do the Wiz need a player like that, or what?

I think you're right on with Harden. That's a good comp.

[Dat2U]

spaceman_E, I'd rather have Curry or Blair at #5 but you could turn out to be right about Harden.

I NEVER mention Harden and others have panned him as not athletic. Surely, Harden's the least respected lotto pick on the Wizards board. His Pac 10 success would tend to support your approval, spaceman. Those type numbers generally translate to NBA success.

Guys with a similar NCAA impact to me were Josh Childress and Micheal Redd. Harden rebounds it well like Childress. Gets to the line a ton like Redd. Harden's like a cross between those tw statistically. And he's young, which I would say bodes well for him improving.

Harden could pan out. I know Dat doesn't like him and Dat's a lot more up on this draft than I am. So, I admit to listening to others on Harden. Plus, my guy Morris Almond was one who scored a lot from the line in the NCAAs and who rebounded well in college, but not in the NBA.

I think I've been too hard on Harden at times but it mostly comes from the mocks pumping him up as a top #5 pick. DX even had him at #2 for a long stretch. Personally, I think DX is working with Harden's agent to pump up his draft stock b/c the love their showing him is ridiculous.

Harden will be a fine role player in the NBA. He'll be a key cog on a playoff team and with his IQ, shot-making and ballhandling ability, he'll be able to contribute right away. But when your a top five pick you need to be more than just a fine role player and immediate contributor.

There are just obvious limitations to his game. It all starts with his athleticism. There's no burst or explosiveness to his game. He struggles to create space on the college level. He's extremely crafty and it works well against Pac-10 talent but does it carry over to the NBA? He can't go to his right hand. That skill is not developed. He'll be sorely limited as defenders will overplay his left. Doc also alluded to something the DX article pointed out, he's not very good at making contested shots.

Now all of these can be overcome to some extent if the defense is not keying on you. If your in a DeShawn Stevenson type role, you can make the open 20 footer. Your not asked to penetrate and finish against 7-0 footers. Your not asked to carry the offense. Your just asked to play a specific role and make smart decisions with the ball. Problem is, a SG drafted in the top 5 needs to have the ability to create off the dribble. He needs the ability to take and make contested shots or finish around the basket. He needs to be able to carry the offense on occassion.

If the Wizards had a pick in the late lottery or mid-first round, Harden may be a guy that I'd hope would slide down to us. He would have good value there. As a top five pick, a team would be setting itself up to be dissapointed and wanting more out of Harden.

[doclinkin]

There are just obvious limitations to his game. It all starts with his athleticism. There's no burst or explosiveness to his game. He struggles to create space on the college level. He's extremely crafty and it works well against Pac-10 talent but does it carry over to the NBA? He can't go to his right hand. That skill is not developed. He'll be sorely limited as defenders will overplay his left. Doc also alluded to something the DX article pointed out, he's not very good at making contested shots.

Now all of these can be overcome to some extent if the defense is not keying on you. If your in a DeShawn Stevenson type role, you can make the open 20 footer. Your not asked to penetrate and finish against 7-0 footers. Your not asked to carry the offense. Your just asked to play a specific role and make smart decisions with the ball. Problem is, a SG drafted in the top 5 needs to have the ability to create off the dribble. He needs the ability to take and make contested shots or finish around the basket. He needs to be able to carry the offense on occassion.

And in order to get time on court in a DeShawn Stevenson role, you'll have to be a net positive on Defense. This is the primary way a role player earns time, and in the NBA especially at the guard position, you need quicks to defend. My biggest question on Harden is less his scoring (he can hit open shots, any one on court with Gil/Caron/Jamison will see open shots) but can he keep up on defense?-- or do we add another problem. That's where my biggest questions stand.

I have two caveats though on that front. Right now Harden looks like he's been indifferent to personal training, weight room work. No telling but that if he commits to a plyometric and stamina regimen he might drop 10-15 lbs and go from block of coal to shiny diamond. He has room to improve, the Baron Davis thick waistband may slim up, lateral footspeed increase significantly and that natural ditchdigger strength could improve a few notches up the Artest scale.

And Flip Saunders zone could make him a useful player on defense, since he intuitively understands the angles, how to give open space as needed but cut off lanes and shots with efficient moves.

I'm two ways about Harden. I loved watching him this year, probably my third favorite college baller to watch this year behind Curry and Blair. (Okay fourth, somehow forgetting Griffin, trying not to hope, prob'ly. Longtime wizfan habits die hard). Emotionally, mentally, situation recognition, anticipation, baller-IQ, hitting open shots, making the right play, leadership, low-ego, trying to feed teammates first-- in that way Harden is exactly what I want on this team, at the right position. He's the anti-Nick Young.

But that cuts both ways, Nick Young can accidentally defend better than many players can on purpose simply because he's got superball rubber legs and stretch armstrong length. Unlike vulcanized rubber density and a possible spare tire. If Harden could keep up on defense-- better yet, excel, lockdown -- if he could handle in the open court, break a press and push the ball uptempo (not just allow the PG to handle end to end and drop off the ball in a patient slow halfcourt set) he'd be my next-to-top choice, beyond even a trade-down.

His intangible skillset is precisely what our squad lacks the most. And adding a young calm peer leader can only help guys like Andray who need a role model for pro attitude more than they need someone to goof with. Instant veteran. Coaches will love him. And he can out-beard Gilbert or DeShawn both. Hell he can out-beard Gilbert Senior.

Know what, if the team fell back in the draft and happened to draft him, by no means would I cry. I'd cheer for him to succeed, adjust and find a way. But from the outset I have more uncertainty than firm confidence. And with a top 5 pick, jeez, I'd hope to have that calm warm grin of 100% satisfaction.

If you had a fusion of Nick Young and James Harden you'd have a perennial allstar. You'd have Brandon Roy. If it came down to it, I wouldn't hate adding the working man's Brandon Roy. Could be a flaw in my reasoning but for this team, right now, I'd much rather add a Harden than say a hypertalent athlete with no particular clue like (16% 3fg shooter) Derozan, just to pick a name out of a hat. I like James Harden, I expect he'll find a role wherever he lands. I don't count him out. I'm just exactly on the fence about him as a Wiz pick because of the defense question, and like Dat I expect that this year he's one who will likely go higher than he would in any other year, this won't prove quite the same bargain as he would've.

Though I do think he'll fall in the draft a little after the measurables and once he's matched in one-on-one workouts. His game is a team game. Can't see that in a gym all alone.