The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition

[jivelikenice]

Wait....you guys wouldn't be interested in a SF who averaged 14 ppg with 5 boards along with th 8th pick (where there's a chance you can still get Evans, Jennings, or Flynn?

[LyricalRico]

Wait....you guys wouldn't be interested in a SF who averaged 14 ppg with 5 boards along with th 8th pick (where there's a chance you can still get Evans, Jennings, or Flynn?

Where would he play? Moving either him or Butler to SG would diminish their effectiveness. I'd much rather use the #5 in either a blockbuster or to get a guy we can actually use (like Rudy Fernandez).

[fishercob]

Rico, I'm aware that I compared Ariza through three years with Chandler through 2. Comparing them each through two years was further from apples-to-apples because of the minutes disparity.

And you know I agree that I'd rather have Rudy that Chandler, but like I said, I just want to make sure we're not being dismissive of a potential shutdown wing defender who can bomb away from three. We have room for that in our rotation; it just depends on how close personnel poeple think Chandler is to achieving his potential as well as their assessment of McGuire. If D-Mac's jumper is a lost cause, he's going to hit his ceiling pretty quick. If Chandler is a step or two away from being as good as Ariza, you have to think hard about making this deal. OTOH, if they think McGuire can be every bit the player Chandler will -- or even 80% thereof, then don't bother with the trade.

IBTM.

[eltacoman]

Etan Thomas
Mike James
Oleksiy Pecherov
5th overall
for.........................
Wilson Chandler
Larry Hughes
8th overall

it would make our team way more balanced and open playing time for our young guys
we could use the 8th on ethier Evans, Holiday, Jennings, Derozen, Flyn or just Draft Jordan Hill and trade his rights for Barbosa or Amari or VC or ?

[LyricalRico]

And you know I agree that I'd rather have Rudy that Chandler, but like I said, I just want to make sure we're not being dismissive of a potential shutdown wing defender who can bomb away from three.

If you've seen "shutdown wing defender" potential in Chandler, I'll have to take your word for it. I didn't see anything like that in the games I saw but he was playing for D'Antoni last year. Even still, I see him as even less of a SG than DMac.

[FreeBalling]

The Knicks are trying to make a deal with Washington to move up to the 5th pick offering Wilson Chandler. New York is after a number of players that they don't feel they can get at their #8 pick including Curry, Ricky Rubio and Jordan Hill.

It's possible they will offer their pick in a deal or hold onto their pick and add the 5th pick along with their 8th pick.

http://www.nbadraft.net/node/7444

Would u guys do it, or what about D lee

Wilson Chandler, NO, Never (That's trash little one.).

We are trying to get Amare or Bosh and you suggest some scrub. W2G. NJ, Great idea.

[Wizardspride]

I didn't look through the entire thread so this may have already been posted.

(If we keep the pick I want Tyreke Evans...badly.)

Timberwolves Workout Response: Point Guards


by rfoye4 on Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:50 pm


Today I was at the Timberwolves practice facility to watch their private workouts for Tyreke Evans, Jonny Flynn, Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday, and Jeff Teague.

First off, I want to openly admit that I have been a big critic on the idea of drafting Tyreke Evans at 6, for a number of reasons...after today, however, one thing became very clear to me, Tyreke Evans is going to be one Hell of a player.

Evans is HUGE. He showed an incredible combination of size/speed/athleticism/jumping ability/pure bull strength/defense/shooting ability that I have not seen from any prospect since, dare I say, this one really tall muscular guy that one a big award this past year. Again, I have been very critical of Evans, but this guy looked like a mini Lebron out there. He dominated in the one on ones, finishing at the rim time and time again after showing very impressive moves and ball handling along with his explosive athleticism. He dominated every single point guard there, jonny flynn was really the only one who stopped him once or twice, and it was more Evans just missed than him stopping him. In the 1-on-1s, the players would have to work to get open for an in-bounds pass, and then had four seconds to get a shot off...most often they received the ball between the top of the key and half court, and evans would get to the rim with ease, bull rushing, juking, spinning, whatever he wanted to do, he did. He made Jennings basically fall down a couple times, and hit 3s in the face of lawson and flynn that drew pretty big Ohhhhs from the small crowd watching on.

Evans hit a handful of 3's in the one on ones and 3-on-3 drills, Including a game winning 3 in the face of i believe Ty Lawson to end the workout. He was simply a man amongst boys today. Tyreke definitely shot better than I had imagined, that will not be an issue down the road.

Flynn was very impressive also. Very strong with the ball, by far the best ball handler there, and a very smooth jump shot. He will be a very good point guard...good guy, hard worker and just gave off a good leadership kind of vibe.

Lawson was good in the one on ones and everything, nothing really stood out though. He made a few shots but overall is was an average showing for him. Didn't seem as fast as the other guys.

Holiday shot the ball very well, seems a little underdeveloped physically, obviously, but his shot is real good. He was good in the open floor and played pretty good defense.

Jennings and Teague just blended in. Jennings is extremely fast and quick on his feet but he got beat on Defense all day and his shot is really ugly. Along with that, he was slamming the ball down, complaining about not getting fouls and letting the "F" bomb go...right in front of Kahn...great idea...

Teague shot the ball well but otherwise he was a sideshow.

Afterwards, Kahn invited the small crowd of season tix holders in to a private room to ask questions.
-He said we won 24 games, nobody is irreplaceable
-Said that they are actively looking to add picks/ trade picks
-When asked if he preferred a pure point guard or combo point guard, he said whatever fits the players around him best.
-Stated there is no truth to marc jackson rumors, no searching for coach will be done until after the draft.
-Said he did not view Pekovic as the tall, long rim defender at Center that he has been talking about, although he does really like him a lot.
-Confirmed his statements that Al would be 2nd best player on championship team and Love 4th if he reached potential.
-When asked who he liked the most from workouts so far, he said he REALLY like what he saw today...considering Tyreke Evans was a one man show out there, its safe to say he likes him a lot.
-If I remember any more of his private Q/A answers I will repost.



Overall I rate the prospects from today in this order:

1. Evans (BY FAR)
2. Flynn
3. Lawson
4. Holiday
5. Tie: Jennings and Teague

I am now completely on board with getting Evans, I cannot believe how dominant he was, the matchup problems that would arise from having him and Foye back there would be great. No point guard would be able to guard this guy especially if he is surrounded with the right talent. I am sold.

[LyricalRico]

Etan Thomas
Mike James
Oleksiy Pecherov
5th overall
for.........................
Wilson Chandler
Larry Hughes
8th overall

it would make our team way more balanced and open playing time for our young guys
we could use the 8th on ethier Evans, Holiday, Jennings, Derozen, Flyn or just Draft Jordan Hill and trade his rights for Barbosa or Amari or VC or ?

That's a bit more interesting, but it would mean that the Wiz would really have to like a guy who would be there at #8 (probably a PG) and I'm not sure that they do. It would save over $1M in salary, which is $2M in real dollard, and if the goal is to limit Butler to around 32mpg then Chandler does give us a more complete option off the bench.

Haywood/Blatche
Jamison/Songaila
Butler/Chandler
Hughes/Young
Arenas/Flynn(?)

Deep bench - Stevenson, McGuire, Critt, #33

I guess it's a decent alternative if they can't get Amare. I guess we'll know when the #5 is announced. If they take Curr, then they're trading with the Knicks or Blazers. If they take Hill, they're trading with Phoenix or Dallas. ( And since the only team out of those 4 we haven't heard a rumor about is Portland, I'd probably bet on them.)

[FreeBalling]

Rico, Wilson will not get us to the next level.

If,,,,,, that's a big if we win 50 games and make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, that one million is small change. Sometimes you have to spend to make money. We need the tools ( Bosh/Amare) to make the next step.

Wison is a bench player, maybe I took it wrong, or I'm thick headed and can only see the PF option.

[doclinkin]

How did a silly Nix trade get mixed with the Draft thread. Take that mess to the trade thread...
.....


I was looking back through video of the likely possible picks and at this point there's one thing about which I'm absolutely certain: if we keep the pick we can really get a heck of a player, no matter who falls.

No matter what, our bench gets deeper, we get possible/potential upgrades at starter, we get pieces that can complement what we already have, or players who upgrade areas of deficiency.

We may get outside shooting, professional attitude, a reliable bail-out sniper who hits clutch shots without pause, who plays bigger than he looks on and off the ball, can run the second unit as if it were the starters with no drop-off from our recuperating all-star, a failsafe player at a position of least depth.

We may get a crafty unselfish team player who can hit any open shots he gets but looks first to help out in all the unglamorous ways before seeking the ego-shot, creates contact and finishes after teh foul.

We may get an unstoppable one-on-one change-of-speed big attack guard with the size/athletics to defend the whole court.

Or a world class phenom floor general may fall into our laps, a would-be consensus #2 pick with pro experience and winning track record, coveted by teams who can afford to pay to move up.

There may be no absolutely complete player, no single answer or cure for all of our woes, but you can make a case for many of the top candidates as a good fit for what we lack. Which gives us solid options if we choose to stay where we are, and thus a stronger hand if we don't hear a deal we like.

At this point I'm confident we can take a wait and see approach and be assured that the 'best available' at #5 will prove to be a solid core player, and help the squad long term achieve their goals. I don't see an instant championship, but adding a high-quality talent to the mix allows for more options & versatility to see what chem mix works best with the new coach, new system, maturing talent. Competition for PT allows depth, adaptability to opponents strengths, or surplus players available for trade to upgrade or min/max weaknesses vs strengths.

Quite frankly the trade possibilities make me more nervous than the potential picks. But even then there's the mantra: Caron for KFB, Caron for KFB...

[LyricalRico]

Rico, Wilson will not get us to the next level.

I agree, which is why I said that to make that move the Wiz would have to really like somebody at #8. Otherwise the modest improvement of Hughes/Chandler over Etan/James/Pesh isn't worth dropping down from 5 to 8 IMO.

[Wiz99]

+1

I don't want the Wiz to think in tiny increments of improvement.

EG needs to be ballsy in his draft and trade thinking.

Something that sends El-no-D-Capitawn elsewhere in exchange for a legit PF.

Focusing in on our other biggest need: a 2 who can d-up and shoot the three to spread the floor for Gil. I'm willing to take risks in the draft to try and find that fellow.

[fishercob]

How did a silly Nix trade get mixed with the Draft thread. Take that mess to the trade thread...
.....


I was looking back through video of the likely possible picks and at this point there's one thing about which I'm absolutely certain: if we keep the pick we can really get a heck of a player, no matter who falls.

No matter what, our bench gets deeper, we get possible/potential upgrades at starter, we get pieces that can complement what we already have, or players who upgrade areas of deficiency.

We may get outside shooting, professional attitude, a reliable bail-out sniper who hits clutch shots without pause, who plays bigger than he looks on and off the ball, can run the second unit as if it were the starters with no drop-off from our recuperating all-star, a failsafe player at a position of least depth.

We may get a crafty unselfish team player who can hit any open shots he gets but looks first to help out in all the unglamorous ways before seeking the ego-shot, creates contact and finishes after teh foul.

We may get an unstoppable one-on-one change-of-speed big attack guard with the size/athletics to defend the whole court.

Or a world class phenom floor general may fall into our laps, a would-be consensus #2 pick with pro experience and winning track record, coveted by teams who can afford to pay to move up.

There may be no absolutely complete player, no single answer or cure for all of our woes, but you can make a case for many of the top candidates as a good fit for what we lack. Which gives us solid options if we choose to stay where we are, and thus a stronger hand if we don't hear a deal we like.

At this point I'm confident we can take a wait and see approach and be assured that the 'best available' at #5 will prove to be a solid core player, and help the squad long term achieve their goals. I don't see an instant championship, but adding a high-quality talent to the mix allows for more options & versatility to see what chem mix works best with the new coach, new system, maturing talent. Competition for PT allows depth, adaptability to opponents strengths, or surplus players available for trade to upgrade or min/max weaknesses vs strengths.

Quite frankly the trade possibilities make me more nervous than the potential picks. But even then there's the mantra: Caron for KFB, Caron for KFB...

Preach!

Fantastic time to bring this up, doc. No matter what we're getting appreciable help here. We're not getting a perfect or complete superstar, but we're getting someone that is going to help our rotation -- period.

Maybe -- just maybe -- we make a big trade, but even if we don't we still help our rotation bigtime, and that's the goal.

[omegatronic3]

He's been very up front about his plans - saying he will not sign a contract before he becomes a free agent. This is the main reason why I've been saying we should discount any thoughts of getting Bosh and focus on Amare - not that we have much of a shot at Amare - but Amare makes more sense.

wellthe fact is that Toronto can pay him more than anyone so its in his best interest to sign and trade....unless he's waiting for LeBrons decision.

Heck getting him or Amare would be huge..i think Bosh is safer but Amare if healthy is better.
I dont know out cap situation but Im sure wed have to get rid of Jamison,, Butler or Arenas to take on another big salary.

The phylosophical question is whether surrounding Arenass, Butler and Jamison with a solid core is enough to be a contender. I say its good enough to get to the 2ndround but not good enough to get past Boston, Cleveland, or Orlando. Relpace either Butler or Jamison with Bosh or Amare and Id say all of a sudden we're right there with anyone.

[bigballajohn]

Redd or RJ for 5th, James, and Thomas

[spaceman_E]

You guys are acting as if the drop from 5 to 8 is all that big a deal. I just don't see it, especially if we were actually netting Hughes and Chandler for our expirings and pech. That is a huge upgrade of 3 useless players for 2 useful players. Let's also consider the actual draft pick. Knicks take Curry at 5, Evans probably goes 6 to minny, and that leaves the Warriors at 7 who aren't likely to take Jordan Hill unless they trade down. This means we would still have our pick of (most likely) Hill, possibly Flynn, Henderson, Jennings, Blair, Derozan or Holiday.
That pretty much means we could trade down with the Knicks and then still make a deal with someone interested in Hill like Phoenix or Dallas, adding even more talent to our team.

[Wizardspride]

You guys are acting as if the drop from 5 to 8 is all that big a deal. I just don't see it, especially if we were actually netting Hughes and Chandler for our expirings and pech. That is a huge upgrade of 3 useless players for 2 useful players. Let's also consider the actual draft pick. Knicks take Curry at 5, Evans probably goes 6 to minny, and that leaves the Warriors at 7 who aren't likely to take Jordan Hill unless they trade down. This means we would still have our pick of (most likely) Hill, possibly Flynn, Henderson, Jennings, Blair, Derozan or Holiday.
That pretty much means we could trade down with the Knicks and then still make a deal with someone interested in Hill like Phoenix or Dallas, adding even more talent to our team.

The Knicks might not be offering thier pick in the deal.

I believe they want a straight up swap of Chandler for the 5th.

[Dat2U]

You guys are acting as if the drop from 5 to 8 is all that big a deal. I just don't see it, especially if we were actually netting Hughes and Chandler for our expirings and pech. That is a huge upgrade of 3 useless players for 2 useful players. Let's also consider the actual draft pick. Knicks take Curry at 5, Evans probably goes 6 to minny, and that leaves the Warriors at 7 who aren't likely to take Jordan Hill unless they trade down. This means we would still have our pick of (most likely) Hill, possibly Flynn, Henderson, Jennings, Blair, Derozan or Holiday.
That pretty much means we could trade down with the Knicks and then still make a deal with someone interested in Hill like Phoenix or Dallas, adding even more talent to our team.

'

There's no role for Chandler here. While he may be an upgrade over McGuire IMO the difference b/w the two is marginal.

And what's the excitement about Hughes? A guy that's going to miss half the season and barely shoot 40% from the floor? No thanks.

Finally while I'm not the biggest Harden fan, many will argue that there's a pretty big difference from selecting 5th b/w Harden, Curry & Evans and selecting 8th and choosing b/w the likes of Hill, Flynn and anyone else above you mentioned.

[jholmbe1]

Interesting rumor in the Washington Times this morning:

According to one insider, the Timberwolves (who already have the sixth, 18th and 28th picks in the draft) disparately want to move up in order to land UConn big man Hasheem Thabeet.

Minnesota reportedly has been working the phones nonstop and of all the teams in the league they're talking to, they've been in speaking with the Wizards the most. Some of the pieces Minnesota is believed to be offering up are swingman Mike Miller, who has a $9.75 million expiring contract, guard Randy Foye, the expiring contracts of Brian Cardinal ($6.75 million) and Mark Madsen ($3.6 million) and possibly the 18th and/or 28th picks.

http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/outl ... -5th-pick/

This rumor sounds suspect at best to me. Why would the Twolves be enamored with Thabeet? They already have their center of the future (Jefferson) and power forward of the future (Love). Also I would doubt that it would take two top 6 picks to move up to the #2 pick. I'm all for swapping picks and trading Etan for Mike Miller though.

[LyricalRico]

This rumor sounds suspect at best to me. Why would the Twolves be enamored with Thabeet? They already have their center of the future (Jefferson) and power forward of the future (Love). Also I would doubt that it would take two top 6 picks to move up to the #2 pick. I'm all for swapping picks and trading Etan for Mike Miller though.

Maybe they don't see Jefferson as a center (I know I don't). Yes he can play there and has had to since coming to Minny, but I wouldn't pencil him in as my 5-man longterm. That's why I was surprised they dealt Mayo for Love last year. A mistake by both teams IMO.

And if they really do want Thabeet, they've got lots of options. Love+18? Foye+6? They can also swap back Jaric for Cardinal. Trying to involve the Wiz only makes sense if the Grizz want Jordan Hill and Minny thinks we're taking him at #5. But if we are taking him at #5 it's to trade and other teams can offer much more than the Wolves can.