Re: Training Camp & Preseason
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:58 am
I thought Neto, Dinwiddie & Holiday all looked good. Gafford & Harrell seems like a pretty solid C rotation.
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TGW wrote:This team sucks. They better trade Beal now while he has value because I see a pennies on the dollar trade at the deadline.
Halcyon wrote:Bertans is looking unplayable at this point. He needs to hit these open 3s he's been getting.
dlts20 wrote:dobrojim wrote:So how come Beal could play given his vaccine status?
Doesn't apply to road teams. New York has no jurisdiction over any other state
NatP4 wrote:miller31time wrote:80sballboy wrote:?s=20
BuT hE sPrEaDs ThE fLoOr AnD oPeNs Up So MuCh FoR eVeRyBoDy ElSe!!1!!1
I’m absolutely done with Bertans. Will he have a random game when he can’t freaking miss? Yup, but he just can’t shoot consistently. It’s Juan Dixon syndrome. Great when his shots are going down, unplayable when they’re not. So glad he fooled us with a fluke season.
Bertans led the team in on/off differential last year.
DCZards wrote:Thanks, PIF. I stopped paying attention to on/off numbers about 6 years ago after Kris Humphries (remember him ) had a great game (primarily scoring & rebounding) for the Zards in a loss to Denver. Yet Humphries was something like -14 for the game. That made absolutely no sense to me.
Tbh it's the only thing he can do well right now. He doesn't have enough talent and offensive talent in order to make crucial moves in this league. He can only pass, take rebounds, drive to the right and do defense. It's not bad, but he lacks a lot in the offensive game. It was very dissapointing to see how much the coach believed in him and trusted him to make plays at the 4th with the pressure of this game, and in the other hand to see how Deni isn't ready to fill this role. Maybe his injury in the summer is also a reason for that performance, but if he won't play better and be more assertive like been said here, he's in a problem.smoothSeph wrote:Unseld still isn’t using Deni right, oh well. He’s playing good defense tonight.
Yep.Deni needs to be more assertive out there, especially if he’s gonna be playing mostly with the second unit.
True as well. But i believe that as the season will advance we will start to see more of that.I don't understand why Deni isn't involved in the screen game more. He's got the biggest body out of anyone sans the centers and he can make passes as a roll man.
That was a very good coaching there letting him play at the crucial moments, despite his bad game (shows the coach believes in you, yet Deni dissapointed him). Of course the fact it was a meaningless game helped that to happen but still.I like that Wes Jr. is giving him more options than just standing around. At some point, the light will turn on. If not, he's a bust. Remember, he's still just 20 and doesn't turn 21 until January.
dlts20 wrote:dobrojim wrote:So how come Beal could play given his vaccine status?
Doesn't apply to road teams. New York has no jurisdiction over any other state
nate33 wrote:DCZards wrote:Thanks, PIF. I stopped paying attention to on/off numbers about 6 years ago after Kris Humphries (remember him ) had a great game (primarily scoring & rebounding) for the Zards in a loss to Denver. Yet Humphries was something like -14 for the game. That made absolutely no sense to me.
On/off numbers can be misleading in an individual game, but they start having real meaning in large sample sizes....
nate33 wrote:...adjusted on/off numbers that use regression analysis to account for teammates...
nate33 wrote:The top of it's player rankings jibe pretty well with guys who are generally accepted as really good players....
nate33 wrote:...the metric is calculated without using box score stats at all...
nate33 wrote:...No single stat is perfect, but I think it's informative to look at both a box score summary metric (such as WP/48, PER or win shares) while also looking at an on/off metric which may be capturing good things that a player does that doesn't show up in the box score (positional defense, moving the ball without it "sticking", boxing out, stretching the floor without the ball, etc.).
RPM ranks Bertans as the 129th best player in the league. Weed out the guys who play less than 20 minutes a game and less than 20 games total, and he ranks 119th. That makes him somewhere around the 4th best player on a bad team or the 5th best player on a good team.
payitforward wrote:nate33 wrote:DCZards wrote:Thanks, PIF. I stopped paying attention to on/off numbers about 6 years ago after Kris Humphries (remember him ) had a great game (primarily scoring & rebounding) for the Zards in a loss to Denver. Yet Humphries was something like -14 for the game. That made absolutely no sense to me.
On/off numbers can be misleading in an individual game, but they start having real meaning in large sample sizes....
A number which has no meaningful relationship to the play of the particular player it assesses does not gain meaning by increasing the sample size. But....nate33 wrote:...adjusted on/off numbers that use regression analysis to account for teammates...
may be a different matter. ESPN's RPM is one such. Yet, the fact that...nate33 wrote:The top of it's player rankings jibe pretty well with guys who are generally accepted as really good players....
...is not an argument for it. That's simply not how truths are determined, by seeing how numbers jibe with what's "generally accepted."
Moreover, I don't believe the following is the case:nate33 wrote:...the metric is calculated without using box score stats at all...
In fact, I don't believe the methodology behind RPM has been made public at all. It is, to use the classic term, mystery meat.nate33 wrote:...No single stat is perfect, but I think it's informative to look at both a box score summary metric (such as WP/48, PER or win shares) while also looking at an on/off metric which may be capturing good things that a player does that doesn't show up in the box score (positional defense, moving the ball without it "sticking", boxing out, stretching the floor without the ball, etc.).
RPM ranks Bertans as the 129th best player in the league. Weed out the guys who play less than 20 minutes a game and less than 20 games total, and he ranks 119th. That makes him somewhere around the 4th best player on a bad team or the 5th best player on a good team.
For sure, no stat is perfect. I.e. a perfectly accurate mirror of reality. In fact, no one should compare a metric to reality. The only thing you compare a metric to is... another metric!
& how do you compare them? By using regression analysis to discover the rate of correlation of the metric to something known (not to an abstraction & not to something that's "generally accepted"). Something known which is also something you want to maximize.
What would that be in basketball? Well, every basketball game produces one known result that matters & that every team wants to maximize: a win.
So when you compare two metrics to each other, you use regression analysis to discover the correlation of that metric to wins. Nothing else. Just wins. The metric that correlates better to wins is the better metric. Period. Why would anything else matter?
DCZards wrote:Thanks, PIF. I stopped paying attention to on/off numbers about 6 years ago after Kris Humphries (remember him ) had a great game (primarily scoring & rebounding) for the Zards in a loss to Denver. Yet Humphries was something like -14 for the game. That made absolutely no sense to me.
nate33 wrote:payitforward wrote:nate33 wrote:On/off numbers can be misleading in an individual game, but they start having real meaning in large sample sizes.... Jared Butler, & Joe Wieskamp.
A number which has no meaningful relationship to the play of the particular player it assesses does not gain meaning by increasing the sample size. But....nate33 wrote:...adjusted on/off numbers that use regression analysis to account for teammates...
[size=50]may be a different matter. ESPN's RPM is one such. Yet, the fact that...nate33 wrote:The top of it's player rankings jibe pretty well with guys who are generally accepted as really good players....
...is not an argument for it. That's simply not how truths are determined, by seeing how numbers jibe with what's "generally accepted."
Moreover, I don't believe the following is the case:nate33 wrote:...the metric is calculated without using box score stats at all...
In fact, I don't believe the methodology behind RPM has been made public at all. It is, to use the classic term, mystery meat.nate33 wrote:...No single stat is perfect, but I think it's informative to look at both a box score summary metric (such as WP/48, PER or win shares) while also looking at an on/off metric which may be capturing good things that a player does that doesn't show up in the box score (positional defense, moving the ball without it "sticking", boxing out, stretching the floor without the ball, etc.).
RPM ranks Bertans as the 129th best player in the league. Weed out the guys who play less than 20 minutes a game and less than 20 games total, and he ranks 119th. That makes him somewhere around the 4th best player on a bad team or the 5th best player on a good team.
For sure, no stat is perfect. I.e. a perfectly accurate mirror of reality. In fact, no one should compare a metric to reality. The only thing you compare a metric to is... another metric!
& how do you compare them? By using regression analysis to discover the rate of correlation of the metric to something known (not to an abstraction & not to something that's "generally accepted"). Something known which is also something you want to maximize.
What would that be in basketball? Well, every basketball game produces one known result that matters & that every team wants to maximize: a win.
So when you compare two metrics to each other, you use regression analysis to discover the correlation of that metric to wins. Nothing else. Just wins. The metric that correlates better to wins is the better metric. Period. Why would anything else matter?
nate33 wrote:We've had this discussion before.
nate33 wrote:...Here's an interesting link comparing the various summary metrics: https://fansided.com/2019/01/08/nylon-calculus-best-advanced-stat/