2024 Draft Thread - Part II

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I'm pretty out of my depth with draft analysis, but from what I've read, I'd take a swing on Topic. Trading down to do that if you can still make it happen would be ideal.

Clingan is intriguing too. If he can develop a three ball he could be a real good pro. Injuries with lanks like him are always a concern.

What's up with Risacher? Frew months ago he seems like the versatile, wing prospect, now seems no one is talking about or says he's a big question mark?

[The Consiglieri]

If both Sarr and Holland are still on the board at #2, I'd be willing to trade down with the Spurs at #4. The logic being that the Spurs are probably leaning towards a PG (and the Rockets might be too) so I'd still get either Holland or Sarr at #4.

I’d be shocked if Holland goes top 5.

And I'd be shocked he doesn't. It's OK to assume not everyone shares your exact thoughts on these prospects.

Its just hard to find him in top 5 consideration in many places. Every once in a while you see him there, but its always other guys in that top 4 or so, though with the topic injury a reshuffling probably occurs. I'll be curious if there's a radical reshuffling happens with only a month until the draft, sometimes guys just are higher on agg mocks than they are actually perceived, there are always guys that drop more, quite often stupidly (Pierce, Caron, Brandon Clarke come to mind as examples), but I have seen Holland up inside the top 3-4 only maybe once every 5 or 6 boards/reports I see. More often he's in the 6-12 zone (and usually the low part). Will be interesting to see if he's a climber like Bilal was.

[The Consiglieri]

Clingan is huge. Edey is huge. Edey I'd consider at 26. Clingan I'd consider late lottery/mid 1st. I will grade drop coverage Cs harder unless they can offer something special offensively.

Castle at 6-6 in shoes is good. As much as I've bashed him, he's been my #1 SG on the board the entire time. He's just not the guy I'd want at 2. I'd consider him mid to late lottery.

Geez. Is it just me, now that we know we are at 2, and I'm really looking at these guys knowing that... I'm having a hard time liking any of them.

Not you, it may be true that like 15-30 is more or less standard, but the top of this draft is definitely a medal stand entrant for worst of the century. At best its probably in 4th place from the past 25 years. Its horrific.

[The Consiglieri]

Clingan is huge. Edey is huge. Edey I'd consider at 26. Clingan I'd consider late lottery/mid 1st. I will grade drop coverage Cs harder unless they can offer something special offensively.

Castle at 6-6 in shoes is good. As much as I've bashed him, he's been my #1 SG on the board the entire time. He's just not the guy I'd want at 2. I'd consider him mid to late lottery.

Geez. Is it just me, now that we know we are at 2, and I'm really looking at these guys knowing that... I'm having a hard time liking any of them.

Not you, it may be true that like 15-30 is more or less standard, but the top of this draft is definitely a medal stand entrant for worst of the century. At best its probably in 4th place from the past 25 years. Its horrific. There's no go, not one, I'd figure would be a typical guy to go top 3 in most drafts, and honestly top 4 or 5. The best of the lot look like guys that typically go in that 7-12 zone, and none of them are suggestive of guys that we just are hopelessly wrong in evals of. It's really terrible. We knew this, which is one of the reasons so many of us were screaming to trade Beal at the very least by '20 or winter '21, so we could truly tank PLUS have assets in the last of the good drafts. This draft was a known turkey since at least mid '22. It was just horrendous management to fail to trade Beal AND to schedule the initial tanking for '23-'24. Just totally incompetent.

The good news is, theres no way in hell this roster is competent in '24-'25 either, so we're pretty well guaranteed to be bottom 3-5 next year, and bottom 4-8 in '25-'26 as well unless we hit a grand slam of a pick in '25, so if nothing else, at least the prior management were so thoroughly incompetent that they left the entire roster bereft of game changing talent so we wouldn't be more middle of the roadish like we were post-Webber/Howard, and post Arenas. This team should be god awful for at least another 2-3 draft classes, and lottery bound for another 4-5 minimum.

[doclinkin]

I'm firmly in the trade-down/out camp if we can do it. Some team has a conviction on a guy at the top and are worried about a rival scooping him. Running interference on that: Atlanta may be looking at trading out as well unless they want to swap out Trey and start a rebuild.

Still, given that I can make an argument for any of my top 5 guys, I don't mind this year slipping back a few notches to collect future picks. While still picking up capital in this draft.

This is a solid year for PG talent. Castle is my guy if we can train him up for a few years at the point. Sheppard may be the hero his numbers suggest. Rob Dills is dynamic and crafty, fun to watch. I like Jared McCain more than some of the guys rated ahead of him, smooth pretty shot from anywhere. Tall PG Bub Carrington shot well in drills at the combine, which was a knock against him in season. Devin Carter showed out in athletic testing. KJ Simpson was a one man band all year. All the way down to Mark Sears who may be an undrafted mighty mouse.

There's talent up and down the draft. Guys who may not be ready yet, but neither are we. Draft and stash types or guys we can bring along slowly. Tidjane Saluan just had a great game in playoffs ball in France while all were distracted over here by the combine and playoffs over here. All hustle superhero and preseason #1 Ron Holland has slipped as far as late lotto in some mocks. There are wings who shot the seams off the ball like Dalton Knecht available further down. Even a guy like Risacher is mocked at the top but given his inconsistency you could see him slip to 10 or later if players excel in workouts and jump up past him.

In the middle there are a few guys I'd love to get a crack at with a pick lower down. We started the year with Gallinari and Mike Muscala at center. This year on a trade back there is a chance you could get the centerpiece defender from the NCAA winning team, or a player that will probably enter the HOF for his college career alone. In a post season wehre bigs are beasting, we are still talking about Edey as if he may be available at 26. I doubt it. But all over the draft we can see bigs. Ariel Hukporti outbeasted Sarr at times and he's off the map of many mocks. Ulrich Chomche is a physical hypertalent more raw than celery but with hints of brilliance. DaRon Holmes used his time at college to add legit NBA skills and patch holes in his game.

I just have reservations about a guy like Sarr with a top pick. He came up in the same system as other successful players, been in the pipeline early, but shows sign of being a late bloomer at best, so I'm leery of taking one swing on a guy that is more promise than results. Likewise Topic who has been injured twice when play got tougher and otherwise has not shown the ability to excel against the tougher competition.

To my mind this draft is deep in question marks, and that is not a bad thing. It feels like one of those drafts where folks will be surprised either by a player that came out of nowhere, or will smack their own heads about one where we say "I shoulda known all along". Give me extra scratch-off tickets so I can pick one of each: a proven guy with college stats and an upside guy with question marks. And I dunno throw in one of those megamillions picks in a drawing down the line.

[payitforward]

... the top of this draft is definitely a medal stand entrant for worst of the century....

Unless of course it turns out completely differently. &, as every year, we have no idea how it's going turn out. Zero.

...There's ... not one, I'd figure would be a typical guy to go top 3 in most drafts...

There is no such thing as that "typical guy to go top 3." Period. Doesn't exist. About 1/3 of all players picked in the top 3 are busts.

...The best of the lot look like guys that typically go in that 7-12 zone....

Once again, there simply is no such "typically... in that 7-12 zone" guy. Guys taken in that range can be terrific; they can be terrible; they can be somewhere near average NBA players. They can be anything.

...none of them are suggestive of guys that we just are hopelessly wrong in evals of....

Another fictional notion. If those guys were "suggestive" in the way you've just invented, it's obvious that we wouldn't be "hopelessly wrong in evals of" them.

...We knew this, which is one of the reasons so many of us were screaming to trade Beal at the very least by '20 or winter '21, so we could truly tank PLUS have assets in the last of the good drafts....

The last of the good drafts?

...This draft was a known turkey since at least mid '22...

Whatever would make you think that?

...It was just horrendous management to fail to trade Beal AND to schedule the initial tanking for '23-'24. Just totally incompetent. ..

We should absolutely have started a serious, total rebuild the day after Ernie was fired. Not doing so made it likely that Tommy's tenure would be short.

Yet, if he had simply managed his four drafts well & not decided to resign Bertans -- that & no more -- Tommy would have turned the Washington Wizards into one of the best young teams in the league.

He could easily have come away with:

Brandon Clarke
Keldon Johson
Caleb Martin
Tyrese Halliburton
Desmond Bane
Xavier Tillmann
KMart Jr.
Trey Murphy III
Herb Jones
Ayo Dosunmu
Tari Eason
Andrew Nembhard

We would be one of the toughest, most promising young teams in the league. He'd still be our GM, & of course!
& that's not even considering the '23 draft, where he'd have been able to come away with Brandin Podziemski & Trayce Jackson-Davis.

It's worth mentioning that *many* of us here suggested some or most of those moves....

[The Consiglieri]

And give this... not trading down in this year's draft makes no sense to me. Conversely, trading up also (so there is that).

I think Sarr goes #1. I don't think I am as sold on Dillingham as you are (but you have been right more often than I). That leaves Holland. So, I definitely do 2 for 7 & 14 if I am given the opportunity and take my chances that I get two possible starters (over the long-haul).

From my point of view what this means is pretty simple.

If I'm the GM, I'd move down, unless I saw a tier break after our pick. If I really saw this as 2-3 or 3-4 guys, then a drop off to like 30 that are similar, sure, stick and pick, but otherwise, rather than do what a lot of people would like, trade down for multiples, I'd rather get the hell out of the draft as part of the asset windfall. Nobody is likely to give us a '25 because that draft is seen as having some legit high end talent unlike this one, as such, I'd try to move down like you suggest, into that 5-10 area, and I'd like comp to be a future pick, say in '26, and say an early 2nd this year. Something of that order. If I can get a top 10 pick this year, a first from a team I think is in the lottery in either '25 (less likely) or '26, and say, a top 5-10 2nd this year for moving out of the top of the draft, I'd definitely consider it because I think 2 bullets in this draft and a random bullet in '25 or '26 is probably likely to equal most of this top half portion of the lottery.

Otoh, it's just a fantasy, this is not what they're doing, if they trade down, its probably for your idea, and the more likely move is the marketing move, just take the best guy on their board, period, and then promote him and hope he becomes at least pretty good. But for me, this draft is so hugely disappointing, I'd rather spin it golden loom style into multiple assets this year and a future draft because I think we probably get more value that way. But again, I just don't see that happening. I think they stick in pick, or move down a teeny bit if they think theyre guy is available later, if they want topic but see him slipping due to two knee injuries in 5 months etc.

[The Consiglieri]

What are the facts? Topic went down with a knee injury in January, came back, and tweaked the same knee without any obvious contact during normal play, but all is well? PASS

The fact is that he didn't have surgery after his first injury and won't need it this time. With no surgery and no structural problems it is doubtful it will effect his draft stock at all.

Topic is out for rest of the ABA finals, he will still get drafted obviously, ultimately it will be an organizational call from an FO. I wouldn't take the risk, you would

If he drops into the 6-12 because of this, that would be my move, other than my fantasy move of just trading out (getting a top 10ish pick, a top 40ish pick, and a future first for the 2nd) probably, depending upon the final evals of the dude. This is a draft with a lot of low ceiling, middling to lesser floor guys, even in the top 10, I'm much more inclined to make Topic style big stupid swings, than floor picks of contributors. The only value I see in targeting floor players in this draft is the potential trade value they have in '25-'26 if the player does enough next year to be flippable. Basically the best we can do with this first pick, is acquire a player thats likely to carry reasonable trade value, or to take a big stupid swing with a lot of risk of missing (the cost of missing is good slotting in much better projected future classes).

[payitforward]

Consiglieri -- obviously, we disagree, but if you think that everybody knows how "bad" this draft is, it's so obvious, agreed on by everyone & known since mid-'22 how can you imagine that a team would give us a top 5-10 pick this year, a '26 R1 pick & an early R2 pick this year?

[The Consiglieri]

If it's ONLY about winning the most games next year ... take Donovan Clingan. He'll improve the low post defense immediately. With internal improvement from Deni, Bilal & Corey and Poole not being the worst player in the league for half a year.... the Wizards might win 30 games. Obviously the catch 22 to this is it would put us in a Toronto situation next year where we could end up potentially losing the 2025 1st if we drop in the lottery. Also while Clingan might be the most impactful next season, higher upside guys drafted after him may pass him by year 2 or 3 (see Walker Kessler).

If it's ONLY about finding the most productive rookie next year, take Zach Edey who could probably put up a near double/double playing half the game. The catch is he may not be able to handle the C position defensively and could be the type of player that gets played off the floor when it really matters.

If it's ONLY about finding the best fit with the current roster, take Zaccharie Risacher who could be a plug & play, 3 & D wing. It would give the Wizards length at 3 positions & needed shooting to complement the slashing ability of Deni/Bilal. Catch is Zaccharie hasn't shown much shot creation or slashing and doesn't appear to impact the game much outside of shooting/defending. He also may not be the best wing in the draft.

For me it's none of that: It's building the best team possible 2027-2035 and beyond.

So for me, I'm looking for grand slam upside, and/or flippable asset for future picks. I am not trying to fix individual problems on the roster. This draft doesn't really have the capacity to impact 2027-2035 in any large fashion beyond blind luck with the selection or a trade out where we get lucky w/a future pick or acquisition from a flippable player.

I dont want to fix anything for next year, i want to tank. People who want incremental improvements from this draft? I just don't get it. That isn't getting you anywhere, finding two stars, maybe 3, in the next four drafts is what matters, franchise changing stars, if you find that guy this year, more power to you, but I think we're fooling ourselves if we think there's a way to do that beyond blind luck like Denver and Milwaukee had.

We need to suck next year, badly, and the year following. The last thing we need, is some guy that will raise the floor to a 25-30 win team and lower the 2027-2035 ceiling by ruining our chances in future lotteries. That would be an abject disaster.Give me a swing for the fences upside pick, or a trade down/out.

[The Consiglieri]

Interview with Dawkins at combine asked about weak draft he brought up the international prospects make it more exciting and there is talent, makes me think they’re are looking route of Risacher or Topic...

Its pretty rare that 3 of the top 4 projected picks aren't international guys. This may be a case where our board is just wrong, or it may be a case like Haliburton where the league is, but I don't think there's any question that quite consistently the guys posting mocks that get aggregating keep saying Sarr, Risacher, and Topic are going much higher and the favs on this board, much lower, than expected. My only quibble with my own take there is that quite consistently there's 1-2 rando domestic players that are going top 3-5 too, and those guys are literally every single guy being talked about here. It's basically those 3 international prospects, and a spin the wheel of like 10-15 different guys filling in the other 1-2 spots in the top 4/5.

I think the pick is Sarr, Risacher, a trade down or straight selection of topic, or a trade down/out. I don't see Clingan as the pick, and I don't see Dat's guy as the pick. Get out of our orbit, and pay attention to the aggregation, and then rumors of faster movers like Bilal last year, and stealth droppers.

[The Consiglieri]

I don't even remember at this point--did the FO make any comments about drafting Coulibaly last year or was it a surprise?

Others will remember more than me, but I feel like at least towards the end of the draft process there was Coulibaly buzz but he was one of those guys that rose up the draft boards/mocks as the process went along.

Came out the last couple of weeks, and I think, at least for me, it was the source of a little confusion because he seemed like he was projected to go a good 4-6 picks later....but they were right. I feel like most of us hard heard it was Bilal within a week or so maybe longer, but nothing this early, then again, now we're top 2, and it normally narrows more.

[doclinkin]

This is the longest offseason ever. Guess it started when we traded Beal. And will continue I think until next year's Draft at the least.

[The Consiglieri]

I'd take Sheppard at this point. His size bothers me a little, but if he ends up being "super" T.J McConnell as a an average scenario case, then I think you could call that a win in a draft like this. Such a player would likely see one or two all-star games.

Why do people keep saying “a draft like this” when no one, not even the experts, know for sure how good or bad this draft will turn out.

I’m not settling for a “super” McConnell with the second pick. I’m setting my sights higher than that.

I keep seeing this take. It's simple, in most drafts its pretty easy to identify strong potential players, franchise changing talents etc, and you will miss on some and hit on others, but in drafts where it looks like there's that guy, or plural of them, you will see a better pay off, and better risk reward pay out etc. When you can't see anyone that blows you away but just a ton of question marks, it's harder to separate the wheat from chaff and infinitely harder to nail down franchise changing talents.

As an example the 2022 QB class for the NFL was hot garbage. It was known hot garbage, and for years. It had several guys with 2nd/3rd round grades going into the final season, and like 1 or 2 with first round grades, and the 1 or 2 dropped (Howell and another guy) and some 2nd/3rd and worse talent rose, like Pickett, but it still, sucked. The guys people reached for, because you need QB's, all sucked, Pickett sucked, Ridder sucked, Willis sucked, Corral sucked. The few finds, our Howell, in the 5th after he dropped 3 rounds, and Purdy in the 7th were pin the tail on the donkey blink luck picks (expecially Purdy). Nailing a QB prospect like Purdy in a draft like that is damn hard. It is much easier to do in more well thought of classes like '12, '18, '20, '21, '23, and '24, but that doesn't mean there right about everyone. Now in those classes your gonna have some dumb reaches, and some mega busts, a RGIII here, a Tannehll and Weeden there, a Darnold here, a Rosen there, a Wilson, and Lance there (I'd argue Mac Jones and Justin Fields are at least playable, but not Wilson, and Lance can't stay healthy), a Bryce Young etc, but you also have Andrew Luck, Baker, Lamar, and Josh Allen, Trevor Lawrence, Anthony Richardson and CJ Stroud....These guys were well thought of, and delivered either to expectations, or at least reasonably adequately or even above....When you have a class like '22, or for that matter '19, you are going to have a much harder time finding those special guys and those exceptions to busts.

I don't think anyone doubts this draft probably has a hidden star or two of some measure, and a lot of startable players, but with the talent ceilings all squashed to such a lower level expectation, and floors so low to boot, it becomes far harder to scout effectively, especially at the top, and far harder to develop a smart grand strategy to approach the class with. You can see in '13 Cleveland swung big, and missed, we tried to hit a double, and did so, the rest of the lottery other than say the #2 dude from the Big 10, and McCollum were all singles and strike outs (now I remember, Oladipo went 2), and then you had the random bullseye blindfolded dart throw by Milwaukee with Giannis, and I hesitate to say the same of Gobert because at the time you could see why someone would take a big swing on him: very high ceiling, potentially disappointing floor....Thats what the problem is here: nobody has any clue whatsoever who the stars are likely to be, nor the safe picks, nobody knows squat. Some will argue nobody ever does, but that's not really true, GM's and scouts and analytics people have educated guesses that are reasonable....This class all that acumen, both scouts, and analytics people would cosign that there's just a lot less ceiling that's clear, obvious or even potentially present. It's much harder to find, and thats why they don't like the class.

They could be wrong. But in my experience when they say a draft looks bad, particularly orders of magnitude worse than usual (the '20 class was also poor, but nobody viewed it at the scale they view this one), they are right. I'd trust them. Hopefully 2 means we'll get something out of this, but honestly I'd like to trade down and out, though I think they'll just stick at 2 and pick their guy. I also think it's gonna be a big swing ceiling pick, rather than an attempt for a double like Porter was 11 years ago.

[The Consiglieri]

This is where GMs/scouts earn their money. It's easy to have the top pick and select Wemby, it's another thing where you get a draft like this with no clear cut number one. I'd say the last time this happened was probably 2020? Was Edwards even considered a consensus top pick? Before that might have been 2017 where Fultz was taken 1, but Tatum got picked at 3. But I mean, from that draft itself, Mitchell/Bam/Tatum/Fox/Lauri/Allen/OG have either been all stars, made all NBA, etc. I have full faith in Dawkins and his team, this was truly their first offseason. Remember they came in like 10 days before last year's draft.

In '20 the view was the draft was pretty crappy, Edwards was indeed the consensus #1, but he was not viewed as what he's clearly started to become. He was viewed as a prospect that had the potential to be a good offensive weapon but in fairness, I think he was basically viewed as more of a guy whod go #3-#5 in a good or very good draft, not a top pick in one of those. In this draft he'd be easy as hell #1, and would be viewed as a clear tier above everyone in this one. I think the big indictment of 2020 at the time was that like this one, the best of the talents were largely complimentary types seen as the #3 weapon on a good or great team, and that it had only 1 player that had the potential to be a very, very good player, Ant, but even him the sense was, he wasn't likely to hit his ceiling, I think they expected more of a rip hamilton type outcome (not comparing players just comparing relatively quality of players career). I'd argue that 2020 was regarded as the worst draft inbetween 2013 and 2024. We did quite well to land Deni there, seems like what, the 3rd or 4th best player from the lottery despite going 8th if memory serves, and it was a rare home run swing, I think the board generally agreed he and Haliburton were easily the best values at slot (though the board rightly had Haliburton as the preferred option with some particularly loud voices demanding him).

[The Consiglieri]

You can't even say "there's no generational talent in this draft", we really don't know. There could be a Jokic in the 2nd round. What is totally fair to say is that there's no OBVIOUS generational talent, like a Wemby or a Lebron.

That's what's meant. When scouts and analytics people look at this, they don't see transformative players. It doesn't mean there aren't any. We can't know the future. It does heavily suggest both the high end talent is either non-existent, or very shallow, and that the ability to identify said talent is gonna be as much about luck as anything, and that's if its even there. I'm sure there are gonna be special players in this draft, but #1 options with superstar ability, first ballot HOF, multi champion studs? I don't see it, and I think its basically going to come in two ways:
1. Blind randomness.
2. Somebody doing what Dat has referenced in talking about it, and what's happened with ANT, some player with a reasonably high ceiling, hitting a grand slam on that ceiling through work rate and will (say Butler on Miami).

It's possible, but most likely, what I see happening is a ceiling result for a complimentary player. A guy becomes a very, very good 2nd or 3rd option...but how do we find them? Luck.

[tontoz]

What's the over under on the number of players we work out? 30?

[The Consiglieri]

Tanking for Topic, I just can't get on-board with the idea, the knee thing puts him in the Hell No category for me.

They weren't tanking for Topic, they're tanking for '25 and '26. This was a known, ---- draft, for at least the past 18 months. The tank is for next year and the year after, whatever we get this year, is what we can pull out of a disastrous draft to start a tank with (the good news being, we took one of the better talents out of last years draft outside of the blue chip zone).

[The Consiglieri]

... the top of this draft is definitely a medal stand entrant for worst of the century....

Unless of course it turns out completely differently. &, as every year, we have no idea how it's going turn out. Zero.

...There's ... not one, I'd figure would be a typical guy to go top 3 in most drafts...

There is no such thing as that "typical guy to go top 3." Period. Doesn't exist. About 1/3 of all players picked in the top 3 are busts.

...The best of the lot look like guys that typically go in that 7-12 zone....

Once again, there simply is no such "typically... in that 7-12 zone" guy. Guys taken in that range can be terrific; they can be terrible; they can be somewhere near average NBA players. They can be anything.

...none of them are suggestive of guys that we just are hopelessly wrong in evals of....

Another fictional notion. If those guys were "suggestive" in the way you've just invented, it's obvious that we wouldn't be "hopelessly wrong in evals of" them.

...We knew this, which is one of the reasons so many of us were screaming to trade Beal at the very least by '20 or winter '21, so we could truly tank PLUS have assets in the last of the good drafts....

The last of the good drafts?

...This draft was a known turkey since at least mid '22...

Whatever would make you think that?

...It was just horrendous management to fail to trade Beal AND to schedule the initial tanking for '23-'24. Just totally incompetent. ..

We should absolutely have started a serious, total rebuild the day after Ernie was fired. Not doing so made it likely that Tommy's tenure would be short.

Yet, if he had simply managed his four drafts well & not decided to resign Bertans -- that & no more -- Tommy would have turned the Washington Wizards into one of the best young teams in the league.

He could easily have come away with:

Brandon Clarke
Keldon Johson
Caleb Martin
Tyrese Halliburton
Desmond Bane
Xavier Tillmann
KMart Jr.
Trey Murphy III
Herb Jones
Ayo Dosunmu
Tari Eason
Andrew Nembhard

We would be one of the toughest, most promising young teams in the league. He'd still be our GM, & of course!
& that's not even considering the '23 draft, where he'd have been able to come away with Brandin Podziemski & Trayce Jackson-Davis.

It's worth mentioning that *many* of us here suggested some or most of those moves....

This is a good example of why we don't agree about anything (though I appreciate how warm you are in your disagreement). I don't think that lineup accomplishes anything at all, I think it gives you a nice bench and a nice collection of end of starting group options that gets rolled.

Otoh, I think we are 100% agreed on what should have been done both in June '09, as well as ten years later after the Wall injury. We do agree about those things. But when I look at what could have been gotten in your scenario, its a team that would be pounded on with teams that feature big 3's, while we had a big nothing, just a ton of great complimentary guys, but those teams don't win conference championships let alone titles, and hell, they rare even finish top 4 in a conference unless the conference is distorted (with the west being much better, like most of the past decade).

[The Consiglieri]

This is the longest offseason ever. Guess it started when we traded Beal. And will continue I think until next year's Draft at the least.

I suspect we'll begin to actually be able to reasonably think about winning 3-4 years from now. We're in the equivalent of 2009 right now of the last rebuild, and remember that build took until 2014 to start paying off. Thankfully we aren't trading our pick for random heat check guys and bench options like we did in '09 and we have Bilal from the '08 analogy season rather than Javale McGee.