Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[Rafael122]

Tatum and Brown are still going to be in their early 30s. White and KP will be around 33/34 I think. Horford would be long gone, and Jrue will probably be retired by then. Giannis will be like 34-35 and I've always said he's the Westbrook of his position, once the athleticism slows down its a wrap. So I think that pick in 2029 is somewhat sneaky. A lot can happen in 5 years but it wouldn't shock me if it's a lottery pick.

[Dolevi]

I feel sorry for you guys. You have the worst front office in the league. Deni could have been a big part of your franchise's future, and together with the youngsters (Bilal), bring you victories. I guess that's the reason your franchise remains in the bottom of the league. Because the front office always think about building, and not about winning now, even when you grow up a diamond. Good luck!

[AFM]

Man, the bright side of the trade is we don't have to put up with people like above. Same goes for users like "Wizraeli" who wouldn't stop calling Brandon and Ed over at Locked On Wizards "antisemites" and "racists" for criticizing Deni's poor play. Just absolutely obnoxious behavior. Good riddance.

[Frichuela]

Man, the bright side of the trade is we don't have to put up with people like above. Same goes for users like "Wizraeli" who wouldn't stop calling Brandon and Ed over at Locked On Wizards "antisemites" and "racists" for criticizing Deni's poor play. Just absolutely obnoxious behavior. Good riddance.

Amen brother! 100%.

[Kanyewest]

I'm going to miss the Deni fans. They were right that he was good.

[doclinkin]

A bunch of us were right that he was good. We were also right that he needed a left hand, and to be more aggressive in attacking the basket and needed to work on his 3 ball and not pass if he had an open shot or get mentally flustered and check out of games if things went against him.

The fact that he started to fix all those things is a credit to his work ethic and mindset. But nobody was wrong for bringing up those facts. And nobody was out to get him by pointing out the things that were under his own control and expecting him to do them. Nobody was persecuting him just because a coach sat him to play another guy.

I like Deni, but single-player fans tend to bug me, especially when they blame everybody around their guy for the shortfalls of their favorite player. Deni would sulk or check out from time to time, he is a sensitive dude, but he managed to turn his weaknesses into strengths by his own work. He didn't need people complaining that he didn't get a chance or was persecuted in some fashion. We had only 1 Hachimura fan who did that sort of thing, but more than a handful of Deni fans who tended to overreact on Deni's behalf, when all Deni needed was time and his own efforts.

Now Portland can hear about it if Deni plays behind Jerami Grant, or if Dalano Banton gets more shots or whatever. I wonder if Deni's numbers will continue to improve or if they flatline for a minute until he establishes himself. Sounds like Portland took him as much for salary relief and freeing up space at guard as they did for his on court value. I hope he can assert himself, stay aggressive, and claim that starting spot, but I would not be surprised if he plays from the bench at times this season.

[Halcyon]

Good luck to Deni but he aint all that.

[Kanyewest]

A bunch of us were right that he was good. We were also right that he needed a left hand, and to be more aggressive in attacking the basket and needed to work on his 3 ball and not pass if he had an open shot or get mentally flustered and check out of games if things went against him.

The fact that he started to fix all those things is a credit to his work ethic and mindset. But nobody was wrong for bringing up those facts. And nobody was out to get him by pointing out the things that were under his own control and expecting him to do them. Nobody was persecuting him just because a coach sat him to play another guy.

I like Deni, but single-player fans tend to bug me, especially when they blame everybody around their guy for the shortfalls of their favorite player. Deni would sulk or check out from time to time, he is a sensitive dude, but he managed to turn his weaknesses into strengths by his own work. He didn't need people complaining that he didn't get a chance or was persecuted in some fashion. We had only 1 Hachimura fan who did that sort of thing, but more than a handful of Deni fans who tended to overreact on Deni's behalf, when all Deni needed was time and his own efforts.

Now Portland can hear about it if Deni plays behind Jerami Grant, or if Dalano Banton gets more shots or whatever. I wonder if Deni's numbers will continue to improve or if they flatline for a minute until he establishes himself. Sounds like Portland took him as much for salary relief and freeing up space at guard as they did for his on court value. I hope he can assert himself, stay aggressive, and claim that starting spot, but I would not be surprised if he plays from the bench at times this season.

To be fair, Deni should have been seeing more time relative to some other guys on the team. Even in 2022-23, Deni was 3rd in basketball plus minus among players who played significant minutes on the team. It was a little frustrating to see Deni's minutes going up and down in comparison to some other guys on the team. Tommy Shepherd even said he traded Rui to give Deni more time.

It would be a weird thing for Deni to get benched or seeing less than 20 minutes in a game (which happened a few times this season) for a team that gave up multiple first round picks. I would have been more excited to see Deni go to a contending team but it looks like we will have to wait some time for that.

[doclinkin]

To be fair, Deni should have been seeing more time relative to some other guys on the team. Even in 2022-23, Deni was 3rd in basketball plus minus among players who played significant minutes on the team. It was a little frustrating to see Deni's minutes going up and down in comparison to some other guys on the team. Tommy Shepherd even said he traded Rui to give Deni more time.

It would be a weird thing for Deni to get benched or seeing less than 20 minutes in a game (which happened a few times this season) for a team that gave up multiple first round picks.

True. But it was weird seeing him get benched and see less than 20 minutes on this team as well.

I don't know what is going on in the locker room or practice but while statistically we all could see Deni was productive, for whatever reason he seems to end up in the doghouse under various coaches. Body language? Complaining? Lack of aggression on the court? It was maddening as a supporter of the kid that his quiet statistical production was overlooked by all the coaches he has had. Which made me wonder if there was something going on behind the scenes.

The only thing I can think is that Deni is an emotional player, and while all teammates say they like him, they reveal that he does talk a lot. Maybe coaches don't respond well to this? See him as whining? Who knows. He seemed to have grown up a lot this year, and I personally did not think he was going to be traded. All I can think is they know something we don't know that adds to the equation.

Anyway. Right, Rui was given away for free to give Deni playing time but Deni still ended up playing short minutes at times for whatever reason. Losing minutes to worse players. He played excellent this year with no competition for the spot. So. Would Deni have taken a step back or played poorly or gotten emotional if he was losing minutes to the #2 pick? Losing minutes to a guy who does not play as well as he does. What would that do to his trade value? Historically Deni didn't do as well when battling for minutes on this team. The front office may have made the evaluation that this was the highest trade value he was going to have if his numbers took a hit this year. They saw it was going to be hard to ship Kuzma for high value, or they realize Kuzma is valuable for tanking purposes. They got a good offer for Deni. One that other teams say was weighted in the Wizards benefit. And teams did not have the leverage before the draft to see that we were going to end up with too many forwards. We knew we were drafting Sarr. So Deni's trade value would drop.

Deni was a bright spot on a team that was historically bad. But on a 15 win team nobody is untradable. They flipped him for 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a good player in a position of need (with an expiring contract). Nobody else on this team would recoup that haul.

Seems like decent value to me, even with his contract being the best value in the league. Deni's production should be able to be made up by those 5 players. (Or more if Brogdon is traded for 2nds or a player + a pick). And the front office seems pretty savvy at crafting contracts that give good value. They inked him to that deal in the first place.

As good as Deni is, he wasn't carrying us to contention on the strength of his numbers alone. An ideal glue guy, a great role player. The front office bet on being able to land a player who might produce as well or better. A star more than star role player. With 5 or more swings at the pinata to get that prize. And they bet on the development of Sarr in the minutes that would have been going to Deni.

I was pissed on Draft night. But see it as decent value now. Or at least a decent gamble given the make-up of the team. I'm not happy that drafting Sarr meant Deni was sacrificed. But I do see the sense of it. Given developmental minutes for a young supertalent, Deni's value may have been at its highest. They saw the offers they were getting for Kuzma vs those for Deni and decided that now was the time to capitalize.

Hopefully Bub and Brogdon make this trade easier to take, this year. And if Brogdon is traded even for a couple 2nd round picks, it does make the trade look yet better. Anyway. I too am ready to let it go. I know Deni will be a solid player for the Blazers. AND I also have a feeling he will end up with another team at some point in his career. That he will always be a valuable role-player, the kind of player other teams want, even if by himself he is not carrying you to contention.

[payitforward]

what doc said....

[nate33]

I'll only get over this deal if it turns out that we really did sell high on Deni and that his career in Portland never looks any better than his averages for the entire 2023-24 season here. But if Deni continues to look like he did for the last 30 games here, but maintains that production over a full season with some incremental improvement in shooting and turnover rate, then this will have been a terrible trade.

A guy that can average 20, 9 and 4 on .600 shooting with top 10% defense is the 3rd best player on a good playoff team.

[Rafael122]

I'll only get over this deal if it turns out that we really did sell high on Deni and that his career in Portland never looks any better than his averages for the entire 2023-24 season here. But if Deni continues to look like he did for the last 30 games here, but maintains that production over a full season with some incremental improvement in shooting, then this will have been a terrible trade.

A guy that can average 20, 9 and 4 on .600 shooting with top 10% defense is the 3rd best player on a good playoff team.

Sure, but was he doing that here because we're terrible? If you dropped him in Boston, what would his numbers look like then?

[nate33]

I'll only get over this deal if it turns out that we really did sell high on Deni and that his career in Portland never looks any better than his averages for the entire 2023-24 season here. But if Deni continues to look like he did for the last 30 games here, but maintains that production over a full season with some incremental improvement in shooting, then this will have been a terrible trade.

A guy that can average 20, 9 and 4 on .600 shooting with top 10% defense is the 3rd best player on a good playoff team.

Sure, but was he doing that here because we're terrible? If you dropped him in Boston, what would his numbers look like then?

That's my point. Some are arguing that Deni was posting meaningless numbers because our team sucked. I think they're wrong.

I think posting efficient offensive numbers on a bad team is still very hard. It's not like defenses had to worry about guarding better players. Typically, the "someone has to post stats" dismissal of good individual production on a bad team really boils down the player either being inefficient (like Kuzma) or the player being a bad defensive player (like, say, Anfernee Simons). Neither of those apply to Deni. Deni was efficient, and he played very good defense. I don't see why his production wouldn't translate on a good team.

[MDStar]

I'll only get over this deal if it turns out that we really did sell high on Deni and that his career in Portland never looks any better than his averages for the entire 2023-24 season here. But if Deni continues to look like he did for the last 30 games here, but maintains that production over a full season with some incremental improvement in shooting and turnover rate, then this will have been a terrible trade.

A guy that can average 20, 9 and 4 on .600 shooting with top 10% defense is the 3rd best player on a good playoff team.

Wow! If those numbers are what you expect from Deni moving forward, I can see why you're so disappointed in this deal. Last year, there were only 8 players who put up 20 and 9 and that's without including the 60% shooting. Giannis, AD, Joel, J. Randle, Jokic, Sengun and Wemby. Do you really have Deni as that level caliber of player based on a 30 game stretch of a 290 game career?

[nate33]

I'll only get over this deal if it turns out that we really did sell high on Deni and that his career in Portland never looks any better than his averages for the entire 2023-24 season here. But if Deni continues to look like he did for the last 30 games here, but maintains that production over a full season with some incremental improvement in shooting and turnover rate, then this will have been a terrible trade.

A guy that can average 20, 9 and 4 on .600 shooting with top 10% defense is the 3rd best player on a good playoff team.

Wow! If those numbers are what you expect from Deni moving forward, I can see why you're so disappointed in this deal. Last year, there were only 8 players who put up 20 and 9 and that's without including the 60% shooting. Giannis, AD, Joel, J. Randle, Jokic, Sengun and Wemby. Do you really have Deni as that level caliber of player based on a 30 game stretch of a 290 game career?

Yes. Maybe it'll be 19, 9 and 4, but you get the idea. To be more clear, those are per 36 numbers. He might only play 32-33 minutes so his counting numbers would be more like 17, 8 and 4. But he'll be capable of 19, 9 and 4 if the coach gave him the minutes.

[AFM]

I'll only get over this deal if it turns out that we really did sell high on Deni and that his career in Portland never looks any better than his averages for the entire 2023-24 season here. But if Deni continues to look like he did for the last 30 games here, but maintains that production over a full season with some incremental improvement in shooting and turnover rate, then this will have been a terrible trade.

A guy that can average 20, 9 and 4 on .600 shooting with top 10% defense is the 3rd best player on a good playoff team.

Wow! If those numbers are what you expect from Deni moving forward, I can see why you're so disappointed in this deal. Last year, there were only 8 players who put up 20 and 9 and that's without including the 60% shooting. Giannis, AD, Joel, J. Randle, Jokic, Sengun and Wemby. Do you really have Deni as that level caliber of player based on a 30 game stretch of a 290 game career?

He's better than all those players.

[DCZards]

I'll only get over this deal if it turns out that we really did sell high on Deni and that his career in Portland never looks any better than his averages for the entire 2023-24 season here. But if Deni continues to look like he did for the last 30 games here, but maintains that production over a full season with some incremental improvement in shooting and turnover rate, then this will have been a terrible trade.

A guy that can average 20, 9 and 4 on .600 shooting with top 10% defense is the 3rd best player on a good playoff team.

I’ll judge the Deni trade primarily by how much the Zards benefit from what they received in exchange for him—Bub, the other FRP pick, the two SRPs and Brogdon.

If you can add 2-3 good to very good players to your rebuild in exchange for one very good player (even one on a good contract) then it’s probably a pretty good trade.

[NatP4]

Yeah, trading 1 good player for 3 good players would be a good move.

Also, did you guys know Carrington has a nickname “Bub” and is from the DC area?

[NatP4]

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[joshuacf]

The one-handed wonder Deni Avidja is a superstar talent waiting to erupt.

Also, Jalen Suggs is on track to be the best point guard in the NBA. If you dispute these facts in any way, you simply do not know ball.