Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - 2011 Draft Thread 5

[LyricalRico]

I suppose EG has been a mixed bag with regards to trades. The Hinrich trades were good. The Booker trade was good. The Jamison dump was good. The #5 for Jamison trade was so so. The Butler/Haywood dump was bad. The Crittenton acquisition was bad. The Miller/Foye trade was horrible (especially after seeing Kahn dump Etan so easily afterwards).

Don't forget about Kwame for Caron. Total steal. And even getting Lewis for Arenas was a net plus when you consider the chemistry and cap ramifications.

You say mixed bag, I say much more positive than negative.

[FAH1223]

I emailed Ted couple months ago and pretty much said, you guys need to draft Enes

he responded back

[Dat2U]

I have no interest in Thompson. He's a small PF (height and weight) with next to no offensive skills. Teaming him up with Javale (and not to mention Seraphin) leaves farrrrrr too little offensive skill on this team.

He's got a a standing reach of 9-0 1/2 which is by no means undersized. His standing reach is the highest of any draft worthy PF in this year's draft. His weight at 227 is fine for a 20 yr old PF just entering the league. Yes, his skill level needs to improve but every single prospect in this draft has flaws. He can defend at a high level, he can rebound, he can finish and he excels at drawing fouls.

He's got a small frame. I'd say that when you have basically no offensive game, that's more than just a flaw that every single prospect has. And on what basis do you say he's a good rebounder?

A small frame? Your reaching. He's not some skinny frail kid. He's got strong base & he's solidly built. He can stand to put on a few more pounds but how many college freshman are finished products physically? And isn't drawing fouls an offensive skill? No prospect did a better job of drawing fouls than Thompson. He's got good on court awareness and has a sense for spacing and knowing when to cut to the basket. He's solid in pick & roll situations. He'll never be a 20 pt scorer but he's a mid range jumper away from being very effective. He's an excellent offensive rebounder and while his defensive rebounding numbers don't stand out, he's active at blocking out which allows his teammates to grab boards (i.e. the Brendan Haywood effect).

[nate33]

Fair enough Rico. One can fairly argue that EG has gotten the best out of most of his trades. As you know, I'm generally an EG supporter. He's not perfect, but his mistakes have been minor for the most part. The only truly unforgivable mistake was the #5 for Miller+Foye trade.

[no D in Hibachi]

Ted says were drafting a white Euro guy

http://www.tedstake.com/

I'd put a lot more credence in what he said about letting the pros
run things when it comes to basketball decisions. And EG could have
asked him to generate yet more smoke which I suspect he would be
more than happy to do. He doesn't actually say what you said he said.

True, but I hate Ted's "joe the fan" argument on why picking a Euro is recipe for success. He mentions Pau and Dirk as prime examples why Euro picks work out. However, for every Pau I can name 10 Pecherov's, and for every Dirk I can name 10 Euro busts like Skitza. Its as straw man as staying Duncan stayed four years in college and became great so Nolan Smith and Singler will be great as well.

[forbes20]

Anyone else notice there hasn't been any other teams mentioned as destinations for Vesely?

When I was doing my mock and had Washington take Biyomba, I had a hard time placing Vesely with a team. I finally put him with Hpuston at 14.

[nate33]

Dat2U, good points about Thompson. Looking at his measurables, Thompson is every bit the athlete that Booker is, plus he has 2.5 inches on him in standing reach. Booker is stronger, but Thompson is no slouch and should gain a bit of strength as he gets older. Both guys are little more than garbage men on offense, but Thompson's foul drawing rate is impressive.

[dobrojim]

Fair enough Rico. One can fairly argue that EG has gotten the best out of most of his trades. As you know, I'm generally an EG supporter. He's not perfect, but his mistakes have been minor for the most part. The only truly unforgivable mistake was the #5 for Miller+Foye trade.

I would even call the Dallas dump a positive since creating the salary space
was really the goal and what allowed for the subsequent Hinrich moves.

If Howard stays healthy and/or we were able to keep Singleton, it's even
a lot better.

[WizarDynasty]

VEsely is the real deal. Donatas if he was able to get the fire and passion that Vesely has could be a decent bench rotation player. But EG should have no fears of Vesely being a bust.

[Dat2U]

You and I are very different. If I'm a GM, I'd actually care about my players. And there's no chance that I'd pick a player who said he didn't want to play for my team.

So basically your saying if you were a leader, you'd let the inmates run the asylum?

Another thing that makes us different is that I don't lie about what other people say.

If you admittedly said that you'd let your decision making be influenced by what a prospective employee says then exactly how am I'm lying? Your statement above gives authority to what Biyombo said. Authority that I wouldn't give. If I didn't draft Biyombo. It would totally based on questions about his age and offensive ineptitude. Not anything he spouts off at the mouth about.

[fishercob]

Ted says were drafting a white Euro guy

http://www.tedstake.com/

I'd put a lot more credence in what he said about letting the pros
run things when it comes to basketball decisions. And EG could have
asked him to generate yet more smoke which I suspect he would be
more than happy to do. He doesn't actually say what you said he said.

True, but I hate Ted's "joe the fan" argument on why picking a Euro is recipe for success. He mentions Pau and Dirk as prime examples why Euro picks work out. However, for every Pau I can name 10 Pecherov's, and for every Dirk I can name 10 Euro busts like Skitza. Its as straw man as staying Duncan stayed four years in college and became great so Nolan Smith and Singler will be great as well.

I don't think he making an argument. Rather I think he's pointing to how global the game has become -- that there are ballers from all backgrounds and walks of life. Ted's not shallow enough to think that someone's country of origin determines his success in life or basketball.

[dobrojim]

Ted says were drafting a white Euro guy

http://www.tedstake.com/

I'd put a lot more credence in what he said about letting the pros
run things when it comes to basketball decisions. And EG could have
asked him to generate yet more smoke which I suspect he would be
more than happy to do. He doesn't actually say what you said he said.

True, but I hate Ted's "joe the fan" argument on why picking a Euro is recipe for success. He mentions Pau and Dirk as prime examples why Euro picks work out. However, for every Pau I can name 10 Pecherov's, and for every Dirk I can name 10 Euro busts like Skitza. Its as straw man as staying Duncan stayed four years in college and became great so Nolan Smith and Singler will be great as well.

If Smith is around at 34, I think we snag him as the backup (4th G after JC) for Wall.
This since his dad was a coach for us back in the day. Would like him or Jenkins with
that pick.

[hands11]

Hands - Are you firing-up the chat room for tonight?

I would do that. Good idea.

Ok, just have to get through the work day.

I'm excited for tonight.

http://tinychat.com/3u1l3

The room is up. You'll behave.

[nate33]

Fair enough Rico. One can fairly argue that EG has gotten the best out of most of his trades. As you know, I'm generally an EG supporter. He's not perfect, but his mistakes have been minor for the most part. The only truly unforgivable mistake was the #5 for Miller+Foye trade.

I would even call the Dallas dump a positive since creating the salary space
was really the goal and what allowed for the subsequent Hinrich moves.

If Howard stays healthy and/or we were able to keep Singleton, it's even
a lot better.

The issue with the Dallas dump is that we got nothing in return. At the time, I really felt that Butler and Haywood were worth more than merely expiring contracts. Cuban even said that he'd have down the Howard for Butler + Stevenson trade straight up. We didn't need to include the Haywood/Gooden swap. I think we could have squeezed a late first round pick out of Haywood if we traded him to a team in need of a defensive C for a playoff run.

I don't want to dwell on it though. It was a bad trade, but not horrific. As I said before, the only truly terrible trade EG made was #5 for Miller/Foye.

[LyricalRico]

Don't forget everyone in this rumor has an extra 1st round pick and we are the only ones with a 2nd.

MInn getting 6 and 12 (and millsap)
utah getting 2 and 18 (and ridnauer or flynn)
dc getting 3 and 20 (and sending seraphim, 34 or blatche to whomever needs to be enticed)

is the foundation for a solid trade that makes everyone happy. please please let it happen.

utah gets a star, a pg and gets out of having to draft jimmer, minnesota gets their post defender and moves up their second pick, while we get our low post offense and still have a second pick.

I think that's a pretty even deal, but I think Milsap pretty much duplicates Kevin Love for the Wolves. They would have to flip him for something else, which is why we were trying to include Indy. Milsap+Webster+12 for Granger+15? The Pacers move up in the draft to possibly take Jimmer (BWGA) and they get a starting quality PF.

Just to put it all together:

Wolves trade: 2, 20, Webster, and Flynn
Wolves receive: 18, 34, and Granger

Jazz trade: 3, 12, and Milsap
Jazz receive: 2, 15, Flynn, and Seraphin

Wizards trade: 6, 18, 34, and Seraphin
Wizards receive: 3 and 20

Pacers trade: Granger and 15
Pacers receive: 12, Milsap, and Webster

Man, that looks really good for everybody IMO.

[Illuminaire]

Was just watching this highlight video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqK-YXl ... r_embedded

Every time I see his flip shot in the lane, the ghostly visage of El Capitawn appears before my eyes. Could this be lefty Euro Jamison?!? I suddenly want him both more and less with the #18 pick.

[sashae]

So is Vesely the 2nd coming of Maciej Lampe? Highly touted SF prospect, 6'11" 240lbs, ends up falling like a rock on draft day...

[hands11]

id rather have Jan Brady than Jan Vesley

Why would we want Vesley again ? If his main NBA skill is taking it to the hoop to dunk, don't we already have McGee ?

McGee hasn't put it on the floor a ton taking it for dunks but he has shown that skill and I only expect that to get better. He can do the same one dribble from the perimeter and finish with the monster dunk.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xuhlb9VRBQ[/youtube]

Dunks 6 and 3 he put it on the floor.

If we are getting a SF, I want it to be more of a all around Marcus type who can shoot from the outside or a Harris type. I say Jan would be a mistake of a pick. We have other bigger needs.

That number3 dunk was awesome. He took the ball nearly a foot above Josh Smiths hand!! If he can gain some sort of control in the post Javale is going to be a freak Centre.

Asfor Nick Young I really want to keep him, his D is average, but it isnt bad at all. His shot and one on one play is just money everytime. I would hate to see him leave after all the hard work he and the team have put into his career.

I just want to see the Wiz draft someone who is an extremely strong perimeter defender, and another forward who is strong and hungry to rebound and do the dirty things.

The wizards are going to improve no matter what next year if we can keep Wall, Young, Mcgee, Crawford together. That is is as good as ayoung core in the league. If we can add another young stud the future is very bright.

I agree. This team does have some very interesting talent already here. Yes they need more but just what they have is going to get a lot better just with another year and actually getting to play together from the start. Last year was a mess with this roster.

Wall, Nick, Craw are all good to very good players with lots of talent. Nick just needs help by adding a pure shooter or two along the roster.

Booker is a very interesting athletic talent. He got a lot better as the year when on. He just needs to add a mid range.

McGee is an athletic freak. His exposure in the dunk contest allowed us to hear from more people current and X NBA players about his talent level. Most are blown away. Kid has some serious upside.

Lewis for another year add some solid vet presence and talent also. He started to fit in then the knee got him.

So what is 6 talented players with even mentioning the wild card that is Dray. Make it 7.

So they have talent, they just need more and in the right place. Help at D center is key. So is more pure shooting. And so is a slashing SF who can hit from the outside.

Biggest key is the center help and shooting. That alone will help everyone play better. That SF is also key but they may not be able to get it all this year.

[Dat2U]

The issue with the Dallas dump is that we got nothing in return. At the time, I really felt that Butler and Haywood were worth more than merely expiring contracts. Cuban even said that he'd have down the Howard for Butler + Stevenson trade straight up. We didn't need to include the Haywood/Gooden swap. I think we could have squeezed a late first round pick out of Haywood if we traded him to a team in need of a defensive C for a playoff run.

I don't want to dwell on it though. It was a bad trade, but not horrific. As I said before, the only truly terrible trade EG made was #5 for Miller/Foye.

I think Cuban said he'd have done the Butler/Howard deal straight up. We offered Haywood if they'd take Stevenson off our hands. My problem with that was why pay the heavy price to dump Stevenson when he only had one year left at $4 mil? Your right, Haywood had more value than that and it's not like we did anything great with the cap room we created by dealing Stevenson. We threw away $4 mil at watching Howard fail at trying to properly rehab last season and we threw away another $4 mil at watching Yi fail at basketball. Portland made an offer for a player & 1st round pick for Haywood that we turned down.

To me, Ernie was so singularly focused at creating cap room so he could do a quick retool during the offseason only to be sideswiped by Leonsis' patient long term planning once Leonsis took over. I don't think Ernie made the Dallas trade with the idea of being patient and rebuilding slowly. As long as the Pollin's were in charge, he was going to do things his way. That's why EG was so desperate to create as much cap room as possible and willing to give Haywood away for nothing.

[Illuminaire]

I can't really fault EG for following his bosses' instructions. If the Pollins said "cut payroll, damn the cost" then that's what he had to do.

I was very, very anti-EG until Leonsis took over... since then, he seems like a new man. What I take from that is that EG has poor vision but excellent skills at executing someone else's plan.