Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[payitforward]

Ibaka has been going downhill for years, which is why OKC traded him. He's gone further downhill this year. There's no reason to want him. Especially since someone will pay way more for his name next year than his play warrants. You can say the same thing about Millsap.

I don't know what's gotten into some of you, but as Dat pointed out a few days ago, this thread has turned into a train wreck.

[montestewart]

Ibaka has been going downhill for years, which is why OKC traded him. He's gone further downhill this year. There's no reason to want him. Especially since someone will pay way more for his name next year than his play warrants. You can say the same thing about Millsap.

I don't know what's gotten into some of you, but as Dat pointed out a few days ago, this thread has turned into a train wreck.

[Meliorus]

Ibaka has been going downhill for years, which is why OKC traded him. He's gone further downhill this year. There's no reason to want him. Especially since someone will pay way more for his name next year than his play warrants. You can say the same thing about Millsap.

I don't know what's gotten into some of you, but as Dat pointed out a few days ago, this thread has turned into a train wreck.

Most of these trades revolve around our 1st rounders getting shipped out for 30 year old+ backups.

[deneem4]

It's why I'm targeting Young and Lou. I want both guys. ... I might be willing to do 2018 1st and a second to get it done...

...nick young is exactly the type of player I would like to acquire. ...There's a dominant two way player side of nick young, that a playoff series and a serious winning environment can bring out of him.

Holy Moly!! You two guys are scaring me!

First off, if we make a trade based only on getting better this season, it's a fail trade. We aren't going to contend for a ring b/c we add players like this. In fact, unless a team is demonstrably, legitimately, one player away from going after a ring, a trade like you suggest is always a mistake, for any team.

Williams, Barton & Young are all FAs after next season. Trading a R1 pick for any of them means giving up the chance to acquire a talented young player whom we control for 4 or more years on a rookie contract.

As well, none of those 3 has any upside left. As to the "dominant two way player" hiding in Nick Young... it's hard to know how to respond. Saying something with a lot of conviction doesn't make it true, you know.

None of those players would do enough to warrant giving away the future for him. All these trade ideas are really really bad trade ideas.

I would Definitely give up a 1st for young and williams...
Say what you want but guys like Lou and Nick off the bench are great for contenders...nick is Jr Smith but slightly younger...and we see what impact Jr has for Cleveland especially in the playoffs

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/lou/McClellan
Porter/oubre/young
Morris/smith
Gortat/mahinmi/

That's a team that can score and defend 90% of the league

Consistently starting guys like that is the problem...but that's not a problem we would have...Unless Beal go down and they're temporary

[montestewart]

...nick young is exactly the type of player I would like to acquire. ...There's a dominant two way player side of nick young, that a playoff series and a serious winning environment can bring out of him.

Holy Moly!! You two guys are scaring me!

First off, if we make a trade based only on getting better this season, it's a fail trade. We aren't going to contend for a ring b/c we add players like this. In fact, unless a team is demonstrably, legitimately, one player away from going after a ring, a trade like you suggest is always a mistake, for any team.

Williams, Barton & Young are all FAs after next season. Trading a R1 pick for any of them means giving up the chance to acquire a talented young player whom we control for 4 or more years on a rookie contract.

As well, none of those 3 has any upside left. As to the "dominant two way player" hiding in Nick Young... it's hard to know how to respond. Saying something with a lot of conviction doesn't make it true, you know.

None of those players would do enough to warrant giving away the future for him. All these trade ideas are really really bad trade ideas.

I would Definitely give up a 1st for young and williams...
Say what you want but guys like Lou and Nick off the bench are great for contenders...nick is Jr Smith but slightly younger...and we see what impact Jr has for Cleveland especially in the playoffs

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/lou/McClellan
Porter/oubre/young
Morris/smith
Gortat/mahinmi/

That's a team that can score and defend 90% of the league

Consistently starting guys like that is the problem...but that's not a problem we would have...Unless Beal go down and they're temporary

Nick Young is older than J.R. Smith, he just seems younger, because he seems immature compared to Smith, which by itself, well.... Young has also been consistently worse than Smith virtually his entire career he just happens to be having a better year this year, for like the first time ever. They really aren't in the same class.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Three firsts for one of the Plumlees - the lesser - Bobcat Goldthwait and Larry Sanders.

[gambitx777]

Well mahinmi would be going to orlando or a third team. Ibaka is not in anyway We would be sending out mahinmi and a first unprotected for ibaka. Now, like I said move nicholson which is very doable with some seconds attached. and at the money I mentioned we would be in the same cap situation that we are in right now. Mahinmi and Nicholson 15 plus 6 is 21. 84 mill 4 year extension is 21 mill a year. We can keep porter now, by matching a mas offer, yes we will be in the tax but we will be wining game.
Honestly I would rather call up detroit and offer hen nicholson and burke and a protected first for Morris and Ish Smith and call denver and offer them a first and mahinmi for Barton and nurkic . Adds some fire power to the bench and helps our cap situation with 4 young ish dudes on good deals. Saves us money next year too.

We're not getting Barton and Nurkic for Mahinmi and a pick. If that was on the table, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think you understand how negatively Mahinmi is valued right now. I don't think we could trade Mahinmi and a 1st for an expiring contract.

Why? Ok Look at the market and look at denver? They have cap room, Not a free agent destination. The needs picks, What is Barton and Nurkic worth. Mahinmi, Has value in the fact that he is a good defencive center, denver needs that, They are not playing for anything right now to offer them a piece they are going to need, a vet guy for anchors that bench, when healthy and an unprotected pick in this years draft. That is worth Barton and Nurkic. Both of them together are worth a first, then you unprotect it to sweeten the deal. we are one wall injury away from not winning another game this year. This draft is amazing. Weather we should do it or not, idk but they would take that deal I feel.

[nate33]

Well mahinmi would be going to orlando or a third team. Ibaka is not in anyway We would be sending out mahinmi and a first unprotected for ibaka. Now, like I said move nicholson which is very doable with some seconds attached. and at the money I mentioned we would be in the same cap situation that we are in right now. Mahinmi and Nicholson 15 plus 6 is 21. 84 mill 4 year extension is 21 mill a year. We can keep porter now, by matching a mas offer, yes we will be in the tax but we will be wining game.
Honestly I would rather call up detroit and offer hen nicholson and burke and a protected first for Morris and Ish Smith and call denver and offer them a first and mahinmi for Barton and nurkic . Adds some fire power to the bench and helps our cap situation with 4 young ish dudes on good deals. Saves us money next year too.

We're not getting Barton and Nurkic for Mahinmi and a pick. If that was on the table, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think you understand how negatively Mahinmi is valued right now. I don't think we could trade Mahinmi and a 1st for an expiring contract.

Why? Ok Look at the market and look at denver? They have cap room, Not a free agent destination. The needs picks, What is Barton and Nurkic worth. Mahinmi, Has value in the fact that he is a good defencive center, denver needs that, They are not playing for anything right now to offer them a piece they are going to need, a vet guy for anchors that bench, when healthy and an unprotected pick in this years draft. That is worth Barton and Nurkic. Both of them together are worth a first, then you unprotect it to sweeten the deal. we are one wall injury away from not winning another game this year. This draft is amazing. Weather we should do it or not, idk but they would take that deal I feel.

Arguing with you is a waste of time because you are impervious to reality. Mahinmi does not have value. He is paid $16M a year and there is no guarantee that he will ever play again, much less play at the level he did for one brief season in his entire career. Nobody wants that albatross contract. Certainly, if Denver wanted a center, they'd be much happier with Nurkic than Mahinmi and a #23 pick.

I already agreed that I would make that trade. I'm just telling you, with absolute certainty, that Denver would never do it. You can choose to disagree with me if you want. But you would be deluding yourself.

[dangermouse]

Just say NO to Swaggy P

[payitforward]

I would Definitely give up a 1st for young and williams...

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/lou/McClellan
Porter/oubre/young
Morris/smith
Gortat/mahinmi/

Uh huh. Well I couldn't ask for someone to demonstrate any more clearly why something he likes is an awful idea.

You've got a R1 pick going for a 30+ year old backup guard in his 12th year, who is on a short contract, & a 1-skill, offense-only guy no one has ever accused of being particularly good whom you are going to play as the 3d SF on a team with a terrific starter at the position & a rapidly-developing young player behind him.

Let me ask you something:

given that Kelly Oubre was the #15 pick in a meh draft 2 years ago, and

given that coming up is what by common agreement is the strongest draft in years, in which lets assume we'll have the #18 or 19 pick

...would you trade Kelly Oubre for Lou Williams & Nick Young? Would you say that was a fair-value trade or better for the Washington Wizards?

[Meliorus]

I would Definitely give up a 1st for young and williams...

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/lou/McClellan
Porter/oubre/young
Morris/smith
Gortat/mahinmi/

Uh huh. Well I couldn't ask for someone to demonstrate any more clearly why something he likes is an awful idea.

You've got a R1 pick going for a 30+ year old backup guard in his 12th year, who is on a short contract, & a 1-skill, offense-only guy no one has ever accused of being particularly good whom you are going to play as the 3d SF on a team with a terrific starter at the position & a rapidly-developing young player behind him.

Let me ask you something:

given that Kelly Oubre was the #15 pick in a meh draft 2 years ago, and

given that coming up is what by common agreement is the strongest draft in years, in which lets assume we'll have the #18 or 19 pick

...would you trade Kelly Oubre for Lou Williams & Nick Young? Would you say that was a fair-value trade or better for the Washington Wizards?

Yea this explains why all these deals are head-scratchers. A #18/19 pick would go top 7 in any other draft, and we're trading ours for bench players?

[payitforward]

We're not getting Barton and Nurkic for Mahinmi and a pick. If that was on the table, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think you understand how negatively Mahinmi is valued right now. I don't think we could trade Mahinmi and a 1st for an expiring contract.

Why? Ok Look at the market and look at denver? They have cap room, Not a free agent destination. The needs picks, What is Barton and Nurkic worth. Mahinmi, Has value in the fact that he is a good defencive center, denver needs that, They are not playing for anything right now to offer them a piece they are going to need, a vet guy for anchors that bench, when healthy and an unprotected pick in this years draft. That is worth Barton and Nurkic. Both of them together are worth a first, then you unprotect it to sweeten the deal. we are one wall injury away from not winning another game this year. This draft is amazing. Weather we should do it or not, idk but they would take that deal I feel.

Arguing with you is a waste of time because you are impervious to reality. Mahinmi does not have value. He is paid $16M a year and there is no guarantee that he will ever play again, much less play at the level he did for one brief season in his entire career. Nobody wants that albatross contract. Certainly, if Denver wanted a center, they'd be much happier with Nurkic than Mahinmi and a #23 pick.

I already agreed that I would make that trade. I'm just telling you, with absolute certainty, that Denver would never do it. You can choose to disagree with me if you want. But you would be deluding yourself.

Totally correct, nate. Even if Mahinmi does wind up somewhere else (as gambit suggested).

There is going to be no way to deal Mahinmi's contract until he's proven he can play again at a high level. Why would anyone take on that risk?

From our point of view, the only good thing about the trade would be ridding ourselves of that albatross contract. Barton is a 27 year old bench player, & Nurkic is a big question mark -- I like him, but he's still a big question mark. If I'm going to take an upside risk, I want to do it on a rookie not a guy in his 3d year.

I'd trade for Nurkic, just not that deal. & our problem is we don't have any asset that would make sense in a straight up trade for him.

[payitforward]

One other note: Ernie traded away our '04 R1 pick. Our '05 R1 pick went in the trade that brought Brendan Haywood to the Wizards long before Ernie's time. Since then, Ernie has traded away our '09, '14 & '16 R1 picks. But never 2 years in a row.

I could be wrong, but this gives me some confidence that he won't trade our 2017 pick, having dealt our 2016 pick. Especially given how well the team is doing -- i.e. no "jolt" excuse (i.e. "I have to be seen as doing... something!").

[bsilver]

I would Definitely give up a 1st for young and williams...

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/lou/McClellan
Porter/oubre/young
Morris/smith
Gortat/mahinmi/

Uh huh. Well I couldn't ask for someone to demonstrate any more clearly why something he likes is an awful idea.

You've got a R1 pick going for a 30+ year old backup guard in his 12th year, who is on a short contract, & a 1-skill, offense-only guy no one has ever accused of being particularly good whom you are going to play as the 3d SF on a team with a terrific starter at the position & a rapidly-developing young player behind him.

Let me ask you something:

given that Kelly Oubre was the #15 pick in a meh draft 2 years ago, and

given that coming up is what by common agreement is the strongest draft in years, in which lets assume we'll have the #18 or 19 pick

...would you trade Kelly Oubre for Lou Williams & Nick Young? Would you say that was a fair-value trade or better for the Washington Wizards?

The Oubre (2015) draft actually looks pretty good if you go down the list.

What I liked about the Laker trade is that earlier versions of it included Andrew Nicholson with the Laker motivation being that it made them really bad so they could guarantee being one of the worst 3 teams. That really defines tanking. But, they already stink so probably don't need to get worse. Does the Commissioner care if you're making a trade to get worse?

The problem is that we only have one asset, and we need to upgrade bench at guard if we have any realistic hope of contending much beyond the 1st round. Don't know if Young/Williams is best, but I would do it for a quality 6th man type.

[nate33]

One other note: Ernie traded away our '04 R1 pick. Our '05 R1 pick went in the trade that brought Brendan Haywood to the Wizards long before Ernie's time. Since then, Ernie has traded away our '09, '14 & '16 R1 picks. But never 2 years in a row.

I could be wrong, but this gives me some confidence that he won't trade our 2017 pick, having dealt our 2016 pick. Especially given how well the team is doing -- i.e. no "jolt" excuse (i.e. "I have to be seen as doing... something!").

I don't have that same level of confidence in Ernie. I think if he could, he'd trade that 1st in a hurry. What will probably prevent it from happening are salary cap issues. We lack the filler contracts necessary to make a trade. (Our filler contracts have such negative value that they would partially if not totally offset the value of our draft pick.)

[JAR69]

What will probably prevent it from happening are salary cap issues. We lack the filler contracts necessary to make a trade. (Our filler contracts have such negative value that they would partially if not totally offset the value of our draft pick.)

So, technically, that is the silver lining of EG's summer dumpster fire signings. The only two that could be used for filler are so terrible that they can't be used for filler, stopping him from trading our R1 pick.

[dckingsfan]

Ibaka has been going downhill for years, which is why OKC traded him. He's gone further downhill this year. There's no reason to want him. Especially since someone will pay way more for his name next year than his play warrants. You can say the same thing about Millsap.

I don't know what's gotten into some of you, but as Dat pointed out a few days ago, this thread has turned into a train wreck.

Most of these trades revolve around our 1st rounders getting shipped out for 30 year old+ backups.

Did we get a new GM? I thought EG was still here?

[nate33]

What will probably prevent it from happening are salary cap issues. We lack the filler contracts necessary to make a trade. (Our filler contracts have such negative value that they would partially if not totally offset the value of our draft pick.)

So, technically, that is the silver lining of EG's summer dumpster fire signings. The only two that could be used for filler are so terrible that they can't be used for filler, stopping him from trading our R1 pick.

EG is playing 3 dimensional chess against himself.

[WizTom]

One other note: Ernie traded away our '04 R1 pick. Our '05 R1 pick went in the trade that brought Brendan Haywood to the Wizards long before Ernie's time. Since then, Ernie has traded away our '09, '14 & '16 R1 picks. But never 2 years in a row.

I could be wrong, but this gives me some confidence that he won't trade our 2017 pick, having dealt our 2016 pick. Especially given how well the team is doing -- i.e. no "jolt" excuse (i.e. "I have to be seen as doing... something!").

I don't have that same level of confidence in Ernie. I think if he could, he'd trade that 1st in a hurry. What will probably prevent it from happening are salary cap issues. We lack the filler contracts necessary to make a trade. (Our filler contracts have such negative value that they would partially if not totally offset the value of our draft pick.)

It's called "the Stepien rule." It prevents teams from trading successive draft picks.

I reckon if Ted Stepien never existed, it would probably be called "the Grunfeld rule."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Stepien

[Vesper]

Is otto porter going to resign with you guys????