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Official Countdown Grunfeld Era-2nd SuperStar?

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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#41 » by Ed Wood » Thu Dec 2, 2010 7:05 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Now trading Arenas for Rashard and orton..might not be too bad only if we feel that Rashard can guard Threes. His three point shooting would be highly valued here. i honestly would love to have Rashard over Thornton. I think Rashard is a better three point shooter than arenas and he does have decent length.


While I think I would probably prefer me at the veteran's minimum over Thornton, the point of any Gilbert Arenas trade wouldn't be to add a player the team truly desires because nobody is gonna give the Wizards one of their cool toys for our really expensive one that the wheels keep falling off of. If you can think of a way to wrangle Al-Farouq Aminu then by all means, kill Ernie, grow a mustache and get to the doing, just be sure you get your cut when they make a movie about it. Ask for Matt Damon.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#42 » by TGW » Thu Dec 2, 2010 7:22 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:apparently grunfeld is back at it. Wants to trade for chronically knee injured rookie daniel orton and broken knee Vince Carter. I could understand if Grunfeld was trading arena for a long defensive small forward with a three ball like Aminu or Grabbing a rebound guzzling center like Kaman but he is not.


LOL the unintentional comedy in this post is hilarious.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#43 » by closg00 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:26 pm

Took this from Mike Lee's blog, to my knowledge, this is the 1st local media/sports person to make the case for one Ernest Grunfeld to be fired. The first dream-beat has sounded from beyond the world of the internet message boards.
http://www.espn980.com/includes/blog/in ... st_id=1653
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#44 » by nate33 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:15 pm

closg00 wrote:Took this from Mike Lee's blog, to my knowledge, this is the 1st local media/sports person to make the case for one Ernest Grunfeld to be fired. The first dream-beat has sounded from beyond the world of the internet message boards.
http://www.espn980.com/includes/blog/in ... st_id=1653

It's a well-written article. I haven't been on the Fire Ernie bandwagon, but I must admit that he makes a compelling case.

The only caveat is that now that Ernie has been given the mission of rebuilding a franchise rather than merely recapturing our former mediocrity, he seems to be doing a better job. Booker and Seraphin are raw, but at least they're the type of intense, defensive-minded, physical players that the team should be able to rely on every night. Hinrich is a good "change the culture" acquisition as well.

On the other hand, the acquisition of Yi was inexcusable (though that may have been done for the potential revenue stream).
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#45 » by JonathanJoseph » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:00 pm

Eh, it's well written but it does not make the case. Here are a few points of rebuttal:

1) The awful play in more than a few games aside, it's far too early to make any judgement about the makeup of this roster. Even discounting Josh Howard, the Wizards have seen continual lineup change due to injuries (again. The medical staff, now that's a problem worth pursuing) and haven't been able to establish any rhythm. The reality is that for this team to be successful, it needs contributions from McGee, Seraphin, Booker and Wall and all are still learning how to play NBA basketball. As someone who predicted 42 wins, I counted on a slow start. Just not quite this slow but there's the injuries.

2) This team was never meant to contend this season. It was meant to get the 7th or 8th seed, something I think is still very very realistic. Next season Yi, Thornton and Armstrong come off the books giving the Wiz about $8M in cap space. Hinrich's $8M is also trade bait at some point. If the Wizards were stuck with this roster due to cap space and untradeable contracts, then the case against Grunfeld would have merit, but that's not the case.

3) That the critics continue to point to the Miller/Foye trade is actually proof of how solid Grunfeld is as a GM. EVERY GM makes mistakes and the fact that Grunfeld has one that sticks out shows that he's been pretty good. People love Kevin Pritchard, but there's no doubt he screwed up multiple times in Portland. Presti blew it taking Harden over Curry. Joe Dumars went from being the top GM in the game to being a dunce by trading Billups to make room for Stuckey and then ruined the franchise by signing Gordon and Villanueva to big money.

If a GM only makes one big personnel mistake, he's doing pretty good.

So as frustrated as we all are, I don't think there's any merit to this at all. We're only about 20 games into a rebuilding roster which has lots of young talent and cap flexibility. I am, however, souring on Flip Saunders as a good fit for this team. I'm very interested in a PG-friendly coach like Flip working with Wall, but Saunders seems to be at his best working with a team of less athletic veterans who can execute, rather than a team of young athletic guys who need to run.

Patience grasshopper. I know that it's tough for a Wizards fan right now.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#46 » by Wizards2Lottery » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:03 pm

3) That the critics continue to point to the Miller/Foye trade is actually proof of how solid Grunfeld is as a GM.


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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#47 » by nate33 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:30 pm

One thing that can't be overlooked: we are much worse than our 6-15 record. Most of those 6 wins were close ones, and most of those 14 losses were embarrasing blowouts. We rank 25th in offense and 29th in defense. We have the second-worst point differential in the league. Our expected record based on our point differential is actually 4-17, ahead of only Cleveland. We are bad. Real bad.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#48 » by Wizards2Lottery » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:36 pm

nate33 wrote:One thing that can't be overlooked: we are much worse than our 6-15 record. Most of those 6 wins were close ones, and most of those 14 losses were embarrasing blowouts. We rank 25th in offense and 29th in defense. We have the second-worst point differential in the league. Our expected record based on our point differential is actually 4-17, ahead of only Cleveland. We are bad. Real bad.


How much worse is this team from last years 2nd half of the season?

Why would they regress so much when on paper, better talent was added ...
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#49 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:44 pm

We are bad but we have have more hope than at any time in the last 10 years because we have potential two way players are the majority of starting positions. The only problem we have now is defensive and offensive awareness which can be improved. There was no hope for Jamison improving his defense. There was no hope that haywood would improve offensively in the post or be a better defensive rebounder. --The players on this team don't have huge ego problems and our only barrier transforming sam cassell's basketball iq into each possession on the basketball court. if howard is healthy, we will have a tremendous boost in offensive and defensive awareness. Nick has shown tremendous improvments in offensive and defensive awareness thanks to Cassell mentor ship. We have seen mcGee bang for defensive boards because "he got tired of hearing Cassell scream at him'. We are starting to see improvements from blatche as far as defensive rebounding. Once this teams basketball IQ even reaches average for defense and offense...this team can beat anyone on any given night. Right now, the question is, how long will it take Flip to boost young players awareness of what the other team is trying to do offensively and defensively..and more importantly...quickly react intelligently to disrupt the other teams system.
Can flip or Cassell successfully improve the offensive and defensive awareness on a night to night basis for sophisticated strategies deployed at lightening speed on the court. Flip and cassel may not be capable of this.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#50 » by Wizards2Lottery » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:47 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Can flip or Cassell successfully improve the offensive and defensive awareness on a night to night basis for sophisticated strategies deployed at lightening speed on the court.


:rofl2: :rofl2:
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#51 » by Nivek » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:59 pm

Flip and Cassell may not be the guys to help the Wizards with their lightening strategies. Perhaps something like this would help:

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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#52 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:22 pm

lightning quick strategies...i know that a concept that many of you haven't been exposed to it...but most fans of successful teams comprehend this concept with relative ease.
Build your team w/5 shooters using P. Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time b4 rising into shot. Elbow never pointing to the ground! Good teams have an engine player that shoot volume (2000 full season) at 50 percent.Large Hands
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#53 » by LyricalRico » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:25 pm

:lol:

You guys are killing me.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#54 » by DMVleGeND » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:04 pm

closg00 wrote:Took this from Mike Lee's blog, to my knowledge, this is the 1st local media/sports person to make the case for one Ernest Grunfeld to be fired. The first dream-beat has sounded from beyond the world of the internet message boards.
http://www.espn980.com/includes/blog/in ... st_id=1653


I don't think we should be calling for Ernie's head yet. After all, this is a rebuilding year and expectations weren't that high. If YOUR expectations were high, than they were TOO high. This team talent, but it's a roster full of young guys with VERY little NBA experience, who are still raw, and has few veterans. Wizards fans need to be patient.

I don't think any move THIS season has warranted a Grunfeld firing. We were active in the draft, which we never were before instead of trading second round draft picks. We netted Kirk Hinrich and the #17 pick, just for cash. Even though Kirk hasn't been very impressive this season, I know why Grunfeld wanted him. He was a tough, pesky defender and was a great leader for Derrick Rose, and Grunfeld thought that Hinrich could have the same influence on Wall that he had on Rose. With the #17 pick, he drafted Kevin Seraphin, who was RAW, but if developed, can become just what the Wizards need, a BANGER. Then he traded the #30 & #35 for the #23 & #55 pick. I wasn't a huge fan of the Booker deal, mainly because I don't think we had to trade up to get him, because if we didn't choose him, he would've likely feel to the 2nd round, but similar to Seraphin, we needed more toughness on the frontline. Again, I wouldn't have chosen him that high, but I understand the pick.

Then, we acquired Yi Jianlian & cash for Quinton Ross. Yi Jianlian has been far from impressive this season, but c'mon, everybody thought it was a steal getting him just for Quinton Ross, especially because of the way he played in FIBA. The deal is more & more looking like a better deal for New Jersey as each game the Wizards play goes by, but you can't blame Ernie for making that trade. Admit it, if you were the GM of the Wizards, you would've made that deal too.

And of course, the Acquisition of Hilton AKA "Neck" Armstrong. Yes, he SUCKS, but there weren't any other bigs on the market. And I think that he gets too much hate on the boards. He's done whatever you can ask from a backup center, and he most likely won't be here next season anyway.

And with all this being said, don't think I'm a Grunfeld nut-hugger like Rico & melodious thunk because I was calling for his head LAST season. When we dealt our 5th pick for Randy Foye & Mike Miller, I wasn't a huge fan of the deal. If though I didn't like it that much, I didn't hate it, because we were trying to win now and I though that Foye & Miller would make us a better team. Well, that didn't happen and I became VERY ANGRY to why we traded our 5th pick. But with all that being said, Grunfeld was just following Pollin's orders. Abe wanted one last run at the championship before his death and if Grunfeld didn't abide, he would've been fired.

While Grunfeld has made some mistakes in the past, we also tend to forget the good things he did, like the Caron-Kwame trade. I understand why people were calling for Ernie's head BEFORE THIS season, but I don't see anything that would justify his firing so early in the season.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#55 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:55 pm

closg00 wrote:Took this from Mike Lee's blog, to my knowledge, this is the 1st local media/sports person to make the case for one Ernest Grunfeld to be fired. The first dream-beat has sounded from beyond the world of the internet message boards.
http://www.espn980.com/includes/blog/in ... st_id=1653


First off, Mike Lee is to be commended for being the first in the media to actually call for Ernie's head. Bout damn time someone dared to be different. However, I'm actually more for Flip getting canned than Ernie. Here's why:

They can blame injuries and tired legs and a young team all they want, but the excuses are paltry and lame. Injuries come from lack of physical preparation and the failure of proper treatment. Poor focus comes from acquiring players who lack the innate hunger to conquer. There are names littering this roster who are kind and gregarious men off the court but lack the fortitude to cast out the demons of this franchise on it. Defense has been a problem throughout Grunfeld’s tenure, and despite what coaches proselytize, defense is as much talent as effort. Once players who have the skill to defend on this level are acquired, then the mindset to dominate defensively can be instilled. With the roster currently constructed, even with their best effort this team cannot stop anyone.


The last line is where I beg to differ with Mike Lee. Ernie went out and drafted Booker, Seraphin, and N'Diaye. Every one of those guys can defend. Flip's the fool who has played Yi and Armstrong.

Also, on the roster are two guys, Thornton and Nick Young, who are quite capable of defending SF and SG quite well. Flip is the guy who's played small ball and who's stuck with Young off the bench at primarily SF, because Flip's married to Hinrich and Arenas both playing huge minutes--one of the reasons the defense is so bad.

This team has personnel who can defend. Flip is the one who is not playing them in the right spots.

Hinrich is darned good defensively at PG.

Want a team that defends? Try Wall, Young, Thornton, Booker/Blatche, and McGee/Seraphin. Hinrich for Wall (only). Gee or Martin for Thornton. Absolutely positively no Yi. Blatche's defense this season has been terrible except for a couple games recently. Blatche and McGee are not defending as well as I had hoped--might be time to package Blatche. (I would wait for him to recover, however).

The Wizards need to get rid of the putrid zone defense. Try size in the backcourt and size with athleticism at SF. Try Booker at SF.

My thoughts are Ernie's done enough wrong over the years to justify firing him, but I think Flip's just not a good coach. I was really sure of this last season, during the 26-56 season. I saw so much that Flip did wrong then and it continues this season. Bad offense and bad defense is on the coach more than the GM.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#56 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:03 pm

nate33 wrote:
closg00 wrote:Took this from Mike Lee's blog, to my knowledge, this is the 1st local media/sports person to make the case for one Ernest Grunfeld to be fired. The first dream-beat has sounded from beyond the world of the internet message boards.
http://www.espn980.com/includes/blog/in ... st_id=1653

It's a well-written article. I haven't been on the Fire Ernie bandwagon, but I must admit that he makes a compelling case.

The only caveat is that now that Ernie has been given the mission of rebuilding a franchise rather than merely recapturing our former mediocrity, he seems to be doing a better job. Booker and Seraphin are raw, but at least they're the type of intense, defensive-minded, physical players that the team should be able to rely on every night. Hinrich is a good "change the culture" acquisition as well.

On the other hand, the acquisition of Yi was inexcusable (though that may have been done for the potential revenue stream).


IMO Hinrich was a dumb signing with Arenas still on the roster because the team drafted a pure PG #1 overall.

As it is this team's got no real leader. Wall's better than either of his mentors athletically, but he's playing too much full-speed ahead and recklessly. I don't see how either Hinrich or Gil effectively mentor John Wall. IMO the Wizards would be better off getting rid of both Arenas and Hinrich and just letting Wall run the damn show. This team sucks. Everything Wall associates Hinrich and Arenas with is LOSING. They're not able to show him how to win. What good are they?

Wizards need to package Hinrich and Yi for whatever they can get.

I believe the Wizards probably should go ahead and face the fact Gilbert Arenas willl never be the same. Buy him out. I don't see this team ever winning with Gil being a part of it. Maybe they can negotiate a decent buy out.

Rebuild the team up by going after interior scorers, defenders, and with players who've actually won somewhere. Also, get a different coach.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#57 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:06 pm

nate33 wrote:One thing that can't be overlooked: we are much worse than our 6-15 record. Most of those 6 wins were close ones, and most of those 14 losses were embarrasing blowouts. We rank 25th in offense and 29th in defense. We have the second-worst point differential in the league. Our expected record based on our point differential is actually 4-17, ahead of only Cleveland. We are bad. Real bad.


Fire Flip.

You cannot have a know-it-all, hard-ass of a coach and be bad. Time to bring in an EJ.

This team needs to play fast, helter skelter, heart and hustle ball. Not execute plays in hopes of getting the best jump shot.

Run, run, run with this team. Sit Gil and Kirk and let the young bucks run (and lose, but grow).
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#58 » by closg00 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:07 pm

CCJ, What the Wiz blog editors did was post several articles and blog-pieces, one put the blame of Flip and another put the blame on Ernie (written by someone with ESPN980 radio)

AROUND THE WEB
As the anniversary of the Verizon Center gun incident nears, Gilbert Arenas opens up to Yahoo!Sports's Marc Spears.

At Bullets Forever Rook6980 asks: What did you expect from a young, rebuilding team?

At Truth About It, John Townsend is waiting for signs of life and Kyle Weidie expresses impatience with team leadership.

ESPN980.com's Jay Glassie makes a case for change at the top.

CSNWashington.com's Frank Hanrahan says Flip Saunders has lost the team.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... son-s.html


The thing is that the depths of our suckiness now stretches over several coaches and a roster shake-up. I think there might be some serious problems behind the scenes organizationally, we should not be THIS bad. The guys looks lost and disinterested some times.
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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#59 » by tontoz » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:12 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:One thing that can't be overlooked: we are much worse than our 6-15 record. Most of those 6 wins were close ones, and most of those 14 losses were embarrasing blowouts. We rank 25th in offense and 29th in defense. We have the second-worst point differential in the league. Our expected record based on our point differential is actually 4-17, ahead of only Cleveland. We are bad. Real bad.


Fire Flip.

You cannot have a know-it-all, hard-ass of a coach and be bad. Time to bring in an EJ.

This team needs to play fast, helter skelter, heart and hustle ball. Not execute plays in hopes of getting the best jump shot.

Run, run, run with this team. Sit Gil and Kirk and let the young bucks run (and lose, but grow).



The Wiz are 5th in the league in fast break points which is pretty good for a team that sucks on the defensive glass.


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Re: Official Countdown 2Firing Ernie"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld#2 

Post#60 » by Induveca » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:03 am

Wizards2Lottery wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:Can flip or Cassell successfully improve the offensive and defensive awareness on a night to night basis for sophisticated strategies deployed at lightening speed on the court.


:rofl2: :rofl2:


Wow that was an amazing sentence. Haha.

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