Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[McGully Culkin]

Blatche is skilled, but this franchise/organization has always lacked motivators. Just like we lack specialists in any sort of prevention of injuries, when fragile players play here who do not take care of themselves; they get injured. When weak-minded/easily distracted players play here; they come off as lazy.

There are long standing, serious organizational problems with this franchise that a lot of people would like to ignore. I do not think we can continue to ignore them and let talented players go on to blossom elsewhere simply because we did not get the most out of them here. This team cannot be a championship contender simply by shuffling players in and out, even with all the luck in the world we will still fail without changing the culture, and it starts from inside the organization at the very top.

I can see your argument if a player is in their 2nd or 3rd year...but this is Blatche's 6th with the team. Foot injury or not, I think many people expected to see some sort of improvement from the guy going into this year. He's been out of shape, a black hole on offense, and immature. You want to change the culture of the team, then subtract some of the knuckleheads on the roster. This club incident is yet another embarrassing note for the Washington Wizards. I just don't see the "it" factor or upside with Blatche that suggests that the Wizards should count on him to be a cornerstone of the franchise rebuilding phase. Again...he's in his 6th year. There are some players who just don't get it, and I think he's one of them.

[LyricalRico]

Although we spent 17 million on acquiring leadership in Hinrich to help a guy that probably doesn't need it in Wall, we totally ignored the leadership vacuum in the front court.

I seem to recall many here liking that the Wiz held off in vet big man signings so that there would be nobody to take minutes from Blatche and/or McGee, not to mention Booker and Seraphin. A guy like Singleton might have been nice, but many didn't see it a huge missing piece. And if the Wizards had the same record, but the minutes played by Booker/Seraphin had gone to a minimum salary journeyman like Singleton, we'd surely have threads complaining about the short-sightedness of the team. This could be one of those "you can't have it both ways" situations.

And speaking specifically of Singleton, it's convenient to make him out to be some kind of mentor, but the fact that he's not in the league probably makes that more of a wishful notion than a fact IMO.

[LyricalRico]

I can see your argument if a player is in their 2nd or 3rd year...but this is Blatche's 6th with the team. Foot injury or not, I think many people expected to see some sort of improvement from the guy going into this year. He's been out of shape, a black hole on offense, and immature. You want to change the culture of the team, then subtract some of the knuckleheads on the roster. This club incident is yet another embarrassing note for the Washington Wizards. I just don't see the "it" factor or upside with Blatche that suggests that the Wizards should count on him to be a cornerstone of the franchise rebuilding phase. Again...he's in his 6th year. There are some players who just don't get it, and I think he's one of them.

This is where I'm at as well. Like I said in an earlier post, even if Blatche turns things around for a stretch, it's only a matter of time before he comes back to his current baseline. No point in going through more years of frustration.

[Ed Wood]

I'm willing to entertain the notion of trading him Rico, but I'm afraid to solicit you for suggestions. You know that I'm sometimes a little, well perplexed, by your trades and frankly 'dray and solicitation don't really mix in the best of times. Also I don't think anyone would have been too up in arms if some kind of veteran or maybe even a not terrible player had been signed instead of Stretch.

But even though I'm not categorically opposed to trading Andray, and I'm not really categorically opposed to trading anybody, I can't see a worthwhile trade being possible in this environment, too many teams would be looking to buy low and treat him as though he has neutral or negative value.

For example: Indiana is one of those teams that's probably most in need of a power forward, a swap of Dray and one of Washington's wings (Howard/Thornton) for McBob, TJ Ford and Paul George doesn't set my heart on fire but I can only imagine how horrifying the idea of trading George for that bad apple Andray Blatche would be for Pacer fans. Basically that awful trade on the trade board is a good barometer for the type of crap looking to move Andray would probably get the Wizards right now.

[ballislife]

Would you guys be open to trading McGee for Ed Davis and Toronto's pick (top 10 protected)

[closg00]

Blatche is skilled, but this franchise/organization has always lacked motivators. Just like we lack specialists in any sort of prevention of injuries, when fragile players play here who do not take care of themselves; they get injured. When weak-minded/easily distracted players play here; they come off as lazy.

There are long standing, serious organizational problems with this franchise that a lot of people would like to ignore. I do not think we can continue to ignore them and let talented players go on to blossom elsewhere simply because we did not get the most out of them here. This team cannot be a championship contender simply by shuffling players in and out, even with all the luck in the world we will still fail without changing the culture, and it starts from inside the organization at the very top.

Excellent, excellent post.

Yes, excellent post indeed Ace.

[nate33]

Ernie Grunfeld made a huge mistake when he put more value in raw physical talent (Yi) than a guy who was willing to mentor & hold his teammates accountable (Singleton).

I agree completely. I still can't fathom why we let Singleton go. He seemed like the perfect fit. I absolutely loved the demeanor of the team last year when Singleton and Josh Howard were the locker room leaders.

I still remember Singleton pulling down 17 boards in the last game of the season to ensure a win against Atlanta (and cost us some lotto balls). The word "tank" didn't compute with the man.

[Ruzious]

Warning, rant below:

Blatche would probably do better elsewhere.

But you could probably argue that case for most Wizard players.

Although we spent 17 million on acquiring leadership in Hinrich to help a guy that probably doesn't need it in Wall, we totally ignored the leadership vacuum in the front court.

I brought up this point before but its probably no coincidence that Blatche played his best ball and acted more mature when James Singleton was constantly in his ear and had his back. Blatche, just like Javale McGee needs to be held accountable. They both need the influence of veteran players who don't just lead by example, but can help them deal with the trials & tribulations that young NBA bigs deal with on a daily basis.

You can't have a team of all young players. You can't have a team devoid of leadership. And you can't expect just coaches to hold players accountable. It has to come from inside the locker room. There has to be a strong voice. Right now this team doesn't have it. It didn't have it with Jamison. It didn't have it with Arenas. It didn't have it with Butler and it still doesn't have it with Hinrich or Lewis. Guys who "lead by example" aren't true leaders IMO. We need a guy or two that's willing to get in someone's face and demand accountability. That's real leadership.

Ernie Grunfeld made a huge mistake when he put more value in raw physical talent (Yi) than a guy who was willing to mentor & hold his teammates accountable (Singleton).

Just checking, but do you remember me saying virtually the same things about Singleton when he was here - including that the Wiz should re-sign him, and then you replying it'd be a mistake and it should be very easy to sign any of a dozen energy guys like him for the veteran minimum? But now - apparently we need Singleton. And Lewis is apparently incapable of that type of leadership - even though he's a 2 time all-star who many Orlando fans credit for helping change the Magic culture to where they could contend for championships (See their appreciation thread for VC and Shard - where they mostly blast VC and appreciate Shard). Just because Lewis is on the downside of his career and is grossly overpaid (no doubt about it) - doesn't mean he can't be a leader and mentor here - unless I'm missing something.

[Dat2U]

Would you guys be open to trading McGee for Ed Davis and Toronto's pick (top 10 protected)

Hell yes, where do I sign up? As long as Ernie Grunfeld isn't making that pick.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

we might as well trade Wall before this organization ruins his career.

[Dat2U]

Just checking, but do you remember me saying virtually the same things about Singleton when he was here - including that the Wiz should re-sign him, and then you replying it'd be a mistake and it should be very easy to sign any of a dozen energy guys like him for the veteran minimum? But now - apparently we need Singleton. And Lewis is apparently incapable of that type of leadership - even though he's a 2 time all-star who many Orlando fans credit for helping change the Magic culture to where they could contend for championships (See their appreciation thread for VC and Shard - where they mostly blast VC and appreciate Shard). Just because Lewis is on the downside of his career and is grossly overpaid (no doubt about it) - doesn't mean he can't be a leader and mentor here - unless I'm missing something.

My response saying it was mistake was to someone suggesting that we sign Singleton to a 3 yr deal at the time (I don't think it was you). Of course, that was something I was firmly against. I've always been against giving backups long term deals unless your competing for a ring, but I never had a problem with us resigning Singleton and I was all for it as long as it wasn't a multi-year deal. And yes, I don't think Singleton was the only guy that we could of signed that would have been an effective backup. Of course Yi wasn't one of those guys. At the time I posted that, I did undervalue Singleton's impact on Blatche, mainly b/c I didn't know much about it until I read it on Bulletsforever later in the summer.

As for Shard, well comparing someone to VC will make anyone look pretty good. VC has proven to be a complete dog. But Shard seemed pretty damn passive to me as well whenever I watched Orlando play. And Shard even himself said he's a "lead by example" type than a vocal leader. I guess its not written in stone that Shard can't be an emotional leader to the Wizards but I can tell you, that stoic leadership crap we get from Hinrich & we got from 'The Great Leader of Men' is a bunch of baloney. The press might eat that sh*t up but in real life you have leaders & followers. And while Jamison & Hinrich may be leaders in name, by nature they are followers who were forced into leadership or assumed that role by default.

Wall seems like a natural leader to me. But being a rookie and being injured, he's not quite ready to assume the role as of yet.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ruzious, Rashard is too young to be on the downside.

I hope he is angered and motivated to play hard at both ends. I have not written him off as a very useful scoring SF/PF .

[Ruzious]

Fair enough Dat. Maybe we do need a more emotional leader than Lewis. Heck, people used to criticise Cal Ripken for being just a leader by example - rather than an emotional leader. Personally, I think the emotional approach lasts only so long. At some point, it either sinks in or it doesn't.

[Ruzious]

Ruzious, Rashard is too young to be on the downside.

I hope he is angered and motivated to play hard at both ends. I have not written him off as a very useful scoring SF/PF .

Tell that to his body, CCJ.

I haven't seen a study, but I think the average player start physically declining by age 28. I think he's 31, and clearly his stats have declined. And he did not look athletic in his 1st game with the Wiz. He can help, but he is on the downside.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Tell that to Ray Allen and to Grant Hill. Karl Malone at 31 had seven more elite seasons. Antawn was at his best at 31. Some guys are like Kidd, Stockton, Nash, Rasheed, and even Juwan. They take better care and train hard to play almost to 40 years of age.

I believe you are right about the average player, Ruz. I hope Lewis will do what it takes to prolong his career.

Note: I want him to help by looking good enough to trade!

[LyricalRico]

Would you guys be open to trading McGee for Ed Davis and Toronto's pick (top 10 protected)

As long as you promise to also take Blatche.

[Dat2U]

CCJ, Rashard is his 12th year in the league, I think its not so much his age as the wear & tear on his body. Remember, he came right out of high school.

Same players in the draft? Mike Bibby, Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison, Paul Pierce & Dirk Nowitzki. The only guy not yet on the downside of his career yet is Dirk. Oh, Jahidi White was in the draft too to give some perspective to how long ago it was.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My goodness, Dat. Way to make me revisit the trade and just appreciate the more how bad it was for the Wizards.

Unreasonable to hope Lewis has anything much left. (I do strongly believe Ryan Anderson is better than Shart). Not good for the Wiz if he doesn't.

[mhd]

My latest to get Cousins:

Wiz trade: Blatche+McGee for Cousins+Garcia
Mem trades: Mayo+Haddadi for Blatche
Sac trades: Cousins+Garcia for Mayo+McGee+Haddadi

NEW LINEUP:
PG: Wall/Hinrich
SG: Young/Garcia
SF: Howard/Thorton
PF: Lewis/Booker
C: Cousins/Seraphin

With needing money to resign Gasol (and Mayo looking to get paid more than Blatche get, and Randolpg being a FA), then Mem makes the deal.
Sac gets Mayo to be the PG next to Evans while adding McGee as their center.

[Dat2U]

mhd, that's just brutal. Lyrical Rico couldn't do any worse.

I understand the interest in Cousins, but what's the fascination with Garcia? I never understood why so many on this board like him. Seems like a overpaid fringe NBA player to me.