McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35?

[WizarDynasty]

But McGee has always been a rail thin kid. He also has a big momma who has out shinned him.

But McGee has some determination. He also has some new muscles for the first time in his life.
He also is still just a baby at 22.

Haywood didn't toughen up at 22. It was more like 26

I still don't think McGee is a starting quality center right now. I would rather see Seraphin.

At 7-1 252 he is to thin. But once he gets to about 270, which he body an easily handle, and gets another year or more of experience, he will be starter quality.

The kid is still a freak athlete. How many 7-1 centers in year 3 make the NBA dunk contest ?

javale is actually 23 and he is 6 months older than Deandre Jordan.
javale mcgee is 17 months younger than Andray Blatche. I don't see Java's court sense coming anywhere close to AB's court sense in 17 months.

We keep using age, but Deandre jordan came in at younger age, at the exact time and same body weight..and it clears as day that Deandre as worked harder on his body so that he can help his team at the center position.

java came into the league at 250. It should never take a seven footer 3 complete years to gain 20 lbs to get to 270. Like i said, D.Jordan is 6 months younger and is a better at playing the position of center. i think EG might have made a mistake because java shows no toughness on the court and he demoralizes the team each time he gets bullied and doesn't fight back.

with D. Jordan we would have a warrior punisher in the paint, having Java start automatically transforms us into victims. When i see java on most plays...I see a victim....not someone that who imposes he will on others. That's fine if he were coming off the bench but him as a starter tell the other team, this is the man you have to fear...and they laugh inside! AGain, Center is suppose to be the anchor of your defense. The center traditionally is the strongest player of your five starters. The center traditionally maintains driving lanes for your guards and forwards by sealing their man and allowing their team mate and easy lane to the basket. Our best center on the team Java--lacks even the core requirements of a traditional center.


Again, bench player yes--birdman yes---starter NO--At least have a player in their that is capable of pinning his man on his back so that players can drive the lane with slight advantages from our players. our players have no confidence that java can hold his man back from swatting their shot, why because lets his man go and is waiting for an alley hoop. There is a reason a Traditional center is normally the strongest of the five starters, he uses his strength pin his man behind him and allow guards to drive. McGee is not capable of doing this even after 3 years. he should not be a starter. We should be training Seraphin now cuz McGee creates almost no advantages for other players driving in the lane with his lack of strength.


So we either trade for D.Jordan or Kaman, or the very least prepare Seraphin now to be starter just as Popovich trained French speaker Parker in his rookie season.

[tontoz]

But McGee has always been a rail thin kid. He also has a big momma who has out shinned him.

But McGee has some determination. He also has some new muscles for the first time in his life.
He also is still just a baby at 22.

Haywood didn't toughen up at 22. It was more like 26

I still don't think McGee is a starting quality center right now. I would rather see Seraphin.

At 7-1 252 he is to thin. But once he gets to about 270, which he body an easily handle, and gets another year or more of experience, he will be starter quality.

The kid is still a freak athlete. How many 7-1 centers in year 3 make the NBA dunk contest ?

javale is actually 23 and he is 6 months older than Deandre Jordan.
javale mcgee is 17 months younger than Andray Blatche. I don't see Java's court sense coming anywhere close to AB's court sense in 17 months.

Blatche has court sense? I think that is worth another...




with one of these thrown in..

[Ed Wood]

javale is actually 23 and he is 6 months older than Deandre Jordan.
javale mcgee is 17 months younger than Andray Blatche. I don't see Java's court sense coming anywhere close to AB's court sense in 17 months.

And I don't see Andray's defensive impact or rebounding approaching JaVale's in the next 17 years. Both players have really significant flaws, which is a big part of why the Wizards are bad. Do you see DeAndre Jordan's court sense approaching Andray's in the near future? I don't.

We keep using age, but Deandre jordan came in at younger age, at the exact time and same body weight..and it clears as day that Deandre as worked harder on his body so that he can help his team at the center position.

This is... not really true. DeAndre is a little younger but neither player had much useful college experience (what with JaVale doing his Jonathan Bender imitation in college and all that) and JaVale measured out to be over an inch taller than Jordan pre-draft (and he's gotten taller since, though perhaps Jordan has as well) and about ten pounds lighter. Looking at Jordan in college he has always had a bigger build than JaVale. JaVale has probably added about the same amount of weight as Jordan as a pro.

with D. Jordan we would have a warrior punisher in the paint, having Java start automatically transforms us into victims. When i see java on most plays...I see a victim....not someone that who imposes he will on others. That's fine if he were coming off the bench but him as a starter tell the other team, this is the man you have to fear...and they laugh inside!

Well that's pretty hard to quantify, but I can't say I've been struck by Jordan's ability to impose his will on the game. As I've said the teams on which he plays have not been especially good defensively and he himself has not had a particularly large or positive impact on the Clippers' team defense.

Also JaVale put up seven reps in the bench pre-draft, Jordan put up eight. The pre-draft bench is probably the least useful measurement in any major sport's predraft.

[WizarDynasty]

Everyone knows Blatche is actually a pretty good passer for a p/f. He is pretty decent assist to t/o ratio.
He actually does well when he plays with high IQ front court players like Oberto if you can't remember that far off and even James Singleton.

This year, our great GM EG decides to deplete the roster of any front court players with basketball iQ.
Oberto, James Singleton and Shaun Livingston--both high iq basketball iq players replaced with low bball iq armstrong--Yi jianlian--and retained Al Thornton

We don't have one front court player that blatche is playing with that has an average or above average basketball iq.

that's why EG may need to go. he doesn't respect basketball IQ when it comes to decision making.

Now he could of at least attempted to replace some of the basketball iq that he lost but he should have been willing to pay a lil more to lock in high basketball IQ players in the front court so that they could at least begin to rub off a lil bit on our front court players. When our starting front court players begin to imitate that's when you can release them. At least have bench players that have high basketball iq so that your low basketball iQ starters can imitate their decisions from practice.

You watch Java and he does nothing at all that resembles what oberto use to do. Oberto and blatche use to hook up all the time on sweet passes. Same with Livingston and blatche. the only pass you see from mcgee is the low iq lob.

this is a huge problem people. if he is going to be soft, he should have at least an average to above average basketball iq or we are working hard to develop by forcing him to make high bball iq decisions in our offense which we are not.

our management does not place a high priority or bench players in the front court with high basketball iq. We allowed Livingston to walk instead of signing him longterm and at least interacting with our players from the bench with a high bball iq even if he got hurt since our team is so devoid of bball iq. I just want to force you guys to see things clearly as to why we are bottom dwellers.
java is soft--and management doesn't value high bbball bench players that can increase the value of your low bball iq starters.

[tontoz]

If Blatche had any BBIQ at all he wouldn't be taking 5 shots a game from 16-23 feet where he is shooting only 29%.

[WizarDynasty]

If Blatche had any BBIQ at all he wouldn't be taking 5 shots a game from 16-23 feet where he is shooting only 29%.

blatche is an close to 80 percent free throw shooter. how far is the free thow line from teh basket?
Obviously something must be happening from his free throw percentage to be that high and him not hitting it in the flow of the offense. Again, 80 percent means that he is skilled medium range jump shooter if left wide open. is the offense designed to give him wide open shots or do we have players that can draw a double team and open up wide open shots. Do we have players like last year who throw pin point passes giving blatche easy jumpers from the free throw line.

We should not have deviated from what worked last year. livingston's style work. What's the difference between livingston's style and hinrich or walls style is all you need to ask yourself. then you can find the solution.

[tontoz]

If Blatche had any BBIQ at all he wouldn't be taking 5 shots a game from 16-23 feet where he is shooting only 29%.

blatche is an close to 80 percent free throw shooter. how far is the free thow line from teh basket?
Obviously something must be happening from his free throw percentage to be that high and him not hitting it in the flow of the offense. Again, 80 percent means that he is skilled medium range jump shooter if left wide open. is the offense designed to give him wide open shots or do we have players that can draw a double team and open up wide open shots. Do we have players like last year who throw pin point passes giving blatche easy jumpers from the free throw line.

We should not have deviated from what worked last year. livingston's style work. What's the difference between livingston's style and hinrich or walls style is all you need to ask yourself. then you can find the solution.

Foul shooting and perimeter jump shooting are two different things. Are you really not aware of that?


There are plenty of guys who shoot 80%+ from the foul line but there is nobody in the NBA who consistently shoots over 60% on 16-23 feet attempts from the field.

You sure come up with some bizarre stuff.

[nate33]

WizD, your arguments boil down to the following:

1. McGee isn't strong or tough. As such, he isn't a legit NBA center.
2. McGee has a terrible basketball IQ.


Both arguments are true. Let me respond in kind:

1. McGee will get stronger. He looks a lot like a young Tyson Chandler to me. Chandler bulked up a bit more every year. McGee will too. Whether or not he gets tougher remains to be seen. Once guys get strong, they generally have more confidence to be tough. It happened with Haywood. Time will tell.

2. McGee's basketball IQ is improving, but will probably never be very good. Hopefully, in time, he can get his bball IQ to be sufficient enough to allow him to take advantage of his superior physical traits to win most matchups at center. It may not happen, but it's certainly worth waiting around a bit to find out. (And I just don't understand how you can criticize McGee's bball IQ while simultaneously defending Blatche's.)

[closg00]

What a timely article, a lot of this will sound familiar.

DeAndre Jordan Emerging as a Force

"DeAndre Jordan is a young player. This is really the first chance he's gotten to play consistent minutes," said Coach Vinny Del Negro. "It's only his third year in the league. He's 6'11", long and athletic."

The early difficulty for Jordan was staying on the floor. His tendency earlier in his career to jump at almost any pump funk would regularly lead to foul trouble.

Experience has paid off. Jordan has blossomed over the last three games for the Clippers, averaging 11.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and a ridiculous 6.3 blocks a game.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z1ANaPG0XV


The Clips got great value for where Jordan was picked. Jordan is only getting this opportunity now because of Kamen's injury. We also got great value with JaVale and he is headed in the right direction.

[WizarDynasty]

WizD, your arguments boil down to the following:

1. McGee isn't strong or tough. As such, he isn't a legit NBA center.
2. McGee has a terrible basketball IQ.


Both arguments are true. Let me respond in kind:

1. McGee will get stronger. He looks a lot like a young Tyson Chandler to me. Chandler bulked up a bit more every year. McGee will too. Whether or not he gets tougher remains to be seen. Once guys get strong, they generally have more confidence to be tough. It happened with Haywood. Time will tell.

2. McGee's basketball IQ is improving, but will probably never be very good. Hopefully, in time, he can get his bball IQ to be sufficient enough to allow him to take advantage of his superior physical traits to win most matchups at center. It may not happen, but it's certainly worth waiting around a bit to find out. (And I just don't understand how you can criticize McGee's bball IQ while simultaneously defending Blatche's.)

No again, you aren't getting. Strength has nothing to do with Heart and Toughness. Javale not standing up for his team mate even though he is 250lbs and stands at 7ft shows that he has no toughness.

you are basically stating that javale will get tough when he gets stronger. i highly disagree. Singleton is a prime example. he was extremely skinny but had heart and was tough. The problem with McGee lies in fact that he isn't tough yet Center's are suppose to be the toughest players on your team.

That is the problem. You like EG want to believe that time will take care of inherent flaws in players but it won't. Our best bet is to start Seraphin at center the way parker started his first year in San Antonio and popovich yelled at him every game but look what happened.

having McGee starting at center shows a lack of basketball iQ from management about core principles of basketball. you don't start a center who has no toughness, coming off the bench fine, but if you think you are going to win a championship with a center that has no toughness, you are completely living in fools man land. McGee should not be starting. REgardless of all the stats you want to bring up, if my center isn't tough, he shouldn't be starting because playing in the paint --demands that you are tough--
This team is so confused, having a player starting at center is like having a point guard start that has poor handle.
toughness for a center is equivalent to a point guard being able to dribble the ball--its a core requirement for the position but the Wizards management has no sense of what the core requirements for each position so they throw mud at the wall and hope something sticks.

It the same thing with having Jamison starting at p/f. even though he couldn't shot block or play on the block, all he could do was shoot from teh perimeter. that's fine for Jamison to come off the bench but a "Starting" for a deep playoff team p/f needs to be able to score on the block and shot block- as core requirement--stuff outside of that is icing on the cake--but if you don't even have the core requirements filled and are in awe about the icing--that's what you fan are. you are in aw of Java's icing--and are completely blind to his lack of core requirements for the position- Toughness is needed for a starting playoff p/f but not nearly as much as for a center.
Having a starting center that is the "least tough out of 32 starting centers" is 5 times worse than having a starting p/f. that "lack toughness" because its more important to be a tough at center than it is a p/f although both require it.

We have the "least tough" starting center in the entire league. Out of 32 starting centers, ours is the least tough. We are at significant disadvantage because our management doesn't think its a problem having the "least tough center" out of 32 starting centers.
My argument boils down to McGee shouldn't start-- Seraphin or Anyone that has toughness is more qualified to start than McGee at center. if McGee were playing s/f-- then toughness isn't as much a prerequisite and he could get away with being "non tough".

We have one player on the roster that has the minimum requirements for starting at the center and that's Seraphin. Armstrong shows some toughness at times but isn't consistent with his toughness.

[WizarDynasty]

What a timely article, a lot of this will sound familiar.

DeAndre Jordan Emerging as a Force

"DeAndre Jordan is a young player. This is really the first chance he's gotten to play consistent minutes," said Coach Vinny Del Negro. "It's only his third year in the league. He's 6'11", long and athletic."

The early difficulty for Jordan was staying on the floor. His tendency earlier in his career to jump at almost any pump funk would regularly lead to foul trouble.

Experience has paid off. Jordan has blossomed over the last three games for the Clippers, averaging 11.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and a ridiculous 6.3 blocks a game.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z1ANaPG0XV


The Clips got great value for where Jordan was picked. Jordan is only getting this opportunity now because of Kamen's injury. We also got great value with JaVale and he is headed in the right direction.

this i the exact same thinking of management. We got great value yet--our he lacks the essential core requirements for the position. "Toughness".
You need the see the center position as like a tree. you have a trunk and then you have the branches that sprout from it.

The most important component for a center is to have a strong trunk. If he doesn't have a strong trunk then all the pretty flowers and creative looking branches than sprout from it have no meaning because any time there is pressure that is applied to the trunk, the trunk of the tree collapses and folds.

We expect that our center is going to grow a strong trunk yet most centers that come into the league already have strong trunks and just billed their branches.

We have a player with a weak trunk who has pretty ornaments hanging from his branches. because we as fans of DC have no concept of what an above average center is suppose to look like, we are in aw at the pretty trinkets that hang from the branches. the intelligent fan pushes the leaves and branches back and inspect the trunk to see if the tree can withstand what you need the tree to do.
if the nba where a speciality league where you were rewarded for non contact and not being tough--the Javale's future and the Wizards future would be great.

you wizards fans fail to examine the trunk---'McGee's toughness" because you don't distinguish between essential traits a centers needs---and extra traits which are nice to have but not essential. Toughness is essential so regardless of how high he jumps, or how strong he gets, if he isn't tough, he is not qualified to start for a deep playoff team. The goal here is to establish starting pieces with at least the basic requirements that a deep playoff team needs at each starting position.

We need to be training a center with the core requirements to be a starting center. McGee change from being the "least tough STARTING center" out of 32 teams to being top 10 tough center is not going to happen just because he puts on a few pounds..even though he has had 3 years to do so.

Seraphin--even though he doesn't have the height is more qualified to start at center than mcgee because he at the bare minimum has the essential trait of toughness--and McGee lacks this essential traits for a starting center is My argument.

And again, Singleton--a rail thin p/f was successful last year because he was "tough". You don't need strength to be "tough" Singleton of last year was a prime example of that.

[GilArenas88]

This whole thread is an embodiment of what's wrong with this country: nobody has an ounce of patience.

[TGW]

I like Jordan but he's dumber than McGee on the court, and I didn't think that was possible.

[WizarDynasty]

if you are tough you can get away with being dumb. There aren't to many smart non tough starting centers in the league.

[tontoz]

What a timely article, a lot of this will sound familiar.

DeAndre Jordan Emerging as a Force

"DeAndre Jordan is a young player. This is really the first chance he's gotten to play consistent minutes," said Coach Vinny Del Negro. "It's only his third year in the league. He's 6'11", long and athletic."

The early difficulty for Jordan was staying on the floor. His tendency earlier in his career to jump at almost any pump funk would regularly lead to foul trouble.

Experience has paid off. Jordan has blossomed over the last three games for the Clippers, averaging 11.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and a ridiculous 6.3 blocks a game.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z1ANaPG0XV


The Clips got great value for where Jordan was picked. Jordan is only getting this opportunity now because of Kamen's injury. We also got great value with JaVale and he is headed in the right direction.

this i the exact same thinking of management. We got great value yet--our he lacks the essential core requirements for the position. "Toughness".
You need the see the center position as like a tree. you have a trunk and then you have the branches that sprout from it.

A tree trunk? SMH

Don't forget about your chips and levels.

Who in the East besides Dwight Howard fits your center profile?

[nate33]

you wizards fans fail to examine the trunk---'McGee's toughness" because you don't distinguish between essential traits a centers needs---and extra traits which are nice to have but not essential. Toughness is essential so regardless of how high he jumps, or how strong he gets, if he isn't tough, he is not qualified to start for a deep playoff team. The goal here is to establish starting pieces with at least the basic requirements that a deep playoff team needs at each starting position.

We need to be training a center with the core requirements to be a starting center. McGee change from being the "least tough STARTING center" out of 32 teams to being top 10 tough center is not going to happen just because he puts on a few pounds..even though he has had 3 years to do so.

Seraphin--even though he doesn't have the height is more qualified to start at center than mcgee because he at the bare minimum has the essential trait of toughness--and McGee lacks this essential traits for a starting center is My argument.

And again, Singleton--a rail thin p/f was successful last year because he was "tough". You don't need strength to be "tough" Singleton of last year was a prime example of that.

You need a trunk, but that trunk needs to be a tall one. While McGee has certain physical characteristics that cause concern, so does Seraphin. There aren't many 6-9 starting centers in this league.

I think you underestimate McGee's ability to get stronger physically. I also think you overstate the need for a center to have a mammoth core. Noah is pretty skinny yet he is effective. So is Camby, Chandler, Hibbert and Pau Gasol.

Again, nobody is saying that McGee doesn't need to improve in these areas. I just disagree with your assertion that he can't improve.

[WizarDynasty]

you still don't get it. Strength has nothing to do with toughness. Noah is tough. Singleton was tough. Just because you are skinny doesn't mean you aren't tough.

toughness is alot more important than height at the center position and yes both are important. Seraphin standing reach of 9'2 is decent of enought until we find a taller center with toughness.

There is no substitute for toughness, either you have it or you don't and mcgee doesn't.

"Trunk" equals toughness==== not strength.

there are alot of traits that mcgee has that are nice---but they are all negated because he lacks toughness not strength.

its like seeing a nice Ferari car that looks new on the outside but you lift up the hood and fine that the engine was replaced with a hyundai engine.

Sure it looks good from the outside but that car is not going to win you any races. Javale's has longterm inherent flaw that is more essential than height for the center position, and that's toughness.
yes he lacks foot speed, coordinated feet for post moves---which can all be improved--- but you can't replace a player's heart. you can't make a player tough. You can force him to do bench presses but plenty of skinny centers are tough and our "starting center" is not one of them. We start Seraphin until we can find a Taller Version of him.

Javale may get stronger but he is never going to get tougher and that's an essential requirement for a deep playoff center more so than height and yes both are important.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Geez, if Flip just played Seraphin with McGee and just cringed or looked away the first few games, he'd find the tough guy and the long guy would be effective together. Elvin and Wes are all-time greats but I bet in time McGee and Seraphin could defend as well and run as well. Rasheed and Ben defended and left scoring to Billups and Rip.

I made a pretty absurd comparison between McGee and Larry Nance. Absurd when McGee was hardly playing last season and when McGee wasn't much of a rebounder. Now just imagine McGee playing with Cousins. Javale would run, dunk, block shots, and not be forced to bang all the time in the paint. He could work on facing up and being unstoppable hitting 10-12 foot shots. Cousins would be his Daugherty.

Nance and Daugherty stayed in college longer and were grown men emotionally and physically when they came in the league. McGee needs patient mentors and visionary coaches who don't find faults while overlooking extraordinary size and talent.

[nate33]

CCJ, how many teams in the league start two big men who have no outside shot, no ball handling skills, no passing skills and are turnover machines whenever asked to make a decision?

The strength and length combo might work defensively (for a while until Seraphin fouls out), but it would be an abject disaster on offense. You need four effective offensive players on the floor if you want to score in this league.

Frankly, defense isn't our problem. With Arenas gone and Blatche playing a little better defensively, our team has been, dare I say, excellent on defense. In eight of our last ten games, we have held our opposition to a worse-than-average offensive efficiency. Our DRtg over the past 10 games is 98.5, which would rank 5th in the league. Take away the awful peformance last game in Philly and our DRtg would be 96.2 and we would lead the league!

Our problem is that we can't score.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, how many teams in the league start two big men who have no outside shot, no ball handling skills, no passing skills and are turnover machines whenever asked to make a decision?

The strength and length combo might work defensively (for a while until Seraphin fouls out), but it would be an abject disaster on offense. You need four effective offensive players on the floor if you want to score in this league.

Frankly, defense isn't our problem. With Arenas gone and Blatche playing a little better defensively, our team has been, dare I say, excellent on defense. In eight of our last ten games, we have held our opposition to a worse-than-average offensive efficiency. Our DRtg over the past 10 games is 98.5, which would rank 5th in the league. Take away the awful peformance last game in Philly and our DRtg would be 96.2 and we would lead the league!

Our problem is that we can't score.

Golden State swept the Wizards for a title with Clifford Ray and George Johnson. Philly won game one against perhaps the best modern-era Laker team starting Tyrone Hill and Dikembe Mutombo (or was it Theo Ratliff?). George Lynch had no offensive game to speak of. Serge Ibaka and Nick Collison finish games for OKC.

You say defense isn't the problem and I ask who does Blatche stop from penetrating and attacking the rim, especially in the fourth when Flip has him at C? How are Javale and McGee defensively?

With Seraphin how much sample space do you have to say how awful he would be offensively or with turnovers?

Is it possible McGee with Seraphin would create offense from their defense? Does Seraphin stop some bigs from entering the paint? Can't defense create offense?