Nothing Thread--only one opinion counts-LOCK ME

[The Consiglieri]

Flip's quote about the difference between Wall and Paul is not stupid. I compared him to Westbrook, but that's a compliment. Westbrook had the Lakers on their heels. He destroyed them. He's no Dwayne Wade but he is great--and a winner.

AD doubts Wall is in the class of Winner like Lebron. I don't think so. Then again, I remember Kobe as a rookie. Bryant then wasn't as good as Wall is now IMO.

Comparing Cousins on this board right now to Wall is just like any other topic, something to talk about.

Yep, I remember Kobe ending the Lakers season by airballing about 5 three pointers in their playoff exit in '97. He was brutal. He was also a kid at the time. So is Wall. Not many stone cold assasins at 18 or 19.

[fishercob]

I wish I knew how to post these charts, but Wall is stacking up pretty damn well to elite NBA PG's when comparing their rookie seasons.

[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=v7f2b]
Wall, Paul, Westrbook, Rose[/url]
Paul is on another planet in terms of PER (best shooter and rebounder). But compares well with the other two. He's the best 3-pt shooter of the four, turns it over the most, highest assist percentage.

Wall, Rondo, D. Williams, Curry

Wall, Kidd, Nash, Billups

Wall stacks up reasonably well to all these guys. He's going to be really stinking good. Looking at the career that these guys have had, it's hard to imagine that things aren't going to get much better in Wiz land before too long.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Wall is going to be amazing, you can see it. The problem is he's just not that good right now but it's to be expected. It sucks because our team sucks, most of our favorite and probably one of the all time great wizards was just traded. It sucks and games are so hard to watch right now, but we really are in a good position with Wall, he'll grow, if you can't see it you're blind.

[DCZards]

Additionally you're dead wrong on Favors. Lots of GM's around the league are trying to figure out how to become a part of the Melo deal so they can steal Favors. He's seen as potentially the most athletic, most physically talented player in terms of upside in the draft. If there's a guy i wold have loved for the wiz to trade up for in that draft, it would have been Favors, not Cousins, though Cousins would have been worth a shot too.

+1
Don't sleep on Favors, folks. The kid will be a star.

[Induveca]

I suppose there is simply not enough tape to make a determination one way or another. The kid has been injured for almost half the season, and dealing with all types of roster turnover in other games. I'm not making a final judgement on him one way or another, however generally watching Wall I get the impression I'm watching a player who either lacks the desire or ability to impose his will on the game.

I'll admit there was a handful of games early on where Wall looked completely the opposite and seemed like he had it in him to carry this team. Something has changed since then (maybe just him getting injured), and we will see if it comes back.

I think Wall was at his best early in the season where all he did was push the ball. The kid has amazing vision and a great ability to play the fastbreak. Despite his stature some breaks had a Magic Johnson
vibe to them.

Since his injury I see Flip really forcing the half court sets on the kid, and he attempts to turn on the jets and dive into the lane.......resulting in awkward plays and turnovers. I'd love to see Flip go with a more uptempo system. We actually get a ton of fastbreak points as others have pointed out, DESPITE Flip's system.

[Ruzious]

The Wiz would get a lot more fast break points if they got more defensive rebounds. Part of that problem is that they're not good at it, but the other problem is the opposition doesn't miss enough... so there are fewer opportunities. It's hard to run off of made baskets.

[Dat2U]

So a lot of us had a first hand look at Cousins last night? Still think he's the second coming of Charles Barkley?

4-19 fgs. 10 pts 8 rebs 3 TOs. Andray Blatche would be proud.

[Ruzious]

So a lot of us had a first hand look at Cousins last night? Still think he's the second coming of Charles Barkley?

4-19 fgs. 10 pts 8 rebs 3 TOs. Andray Blatche would be proud.

Yeah, that 4-19 really stood out. It was odd, because there were a few plays where he took Javale to school. I think Jav and Flip both deserves some credit there. There was a lot of help devense. Of course, it's a lot easier to double-down when Evans didn't even play. Cuz definitely has to learn he''s got teammates to pass to when he's double-teamed - as do most young bigs.

[tontoz]

So a lot of us had a first hand look at Cousins last night? Still think he's the second coming of Charles Barkley?

4-19 fgs. 10 pts 8 rebs 3 TOs. Andray Blatche would be proud.

His shooting percentage of 43% is certainly in Blatche territory. He has no jumper and has problems finishing inside because he can't jump.

[Illuminaire]

I was very impressed by Cousin's first step. If he puts in the work (semi-doubtful) and keeps honing his ability to finish inside, he could easily be a top-5 offensive big. He has the talent.

But wow, he made Blatche look calm and mature out there. The body language was palpably bad.

[DMVleGeND]

Cousins has some nice moves for a post player, but REALLY struggles to finish at the rim because of his limited athleticism and weight. He actually got past JaVale a few times and had easy layup opportunities, but just couldn't finish. He needs to convert some of that fat to muscle if he wants to reach his true athletic potential(which still isn't much). He also show very poor body language and is out of shape, which leads me to question his work ethic. If he doesn't grow up, he might now reach his true potential.

I think that Cousins will be a dominate big in a few years, but Wall will be better.

[Kanyewest]

I feel that DeMarcus Cousins suffers a lot through his reputation. Several calls were not going in his favors simply because of who he was. On the other hand, John Wall usually gets the benefit of the doubt.

I think Wall is the better player but I wouldn't rule out Cousins having a better career. Walls style of play could result in injuries. Top guards seem to be found at the top 5 all the time. Nonetheless, Wall appears to say all the right things and has the intangibles of a leader, so more than likely, he should become a top 5 point guard. Of course, the Wizards need to pair a top big much like how the Kings have guard in Evans that can play with Cousins.

[Illuminaire]

Cousins actually didn't get called for a lot of obvious reach-in fouls last night. He uses his hands too much and his feet too little, which is fairly common for out of shape athletes. The refs may be giving him the Andray Blatche treatment, but I'd say he comes by most of his fouls the honest way... by committing them.

[Ruzious]

Cousins actually didn't get called for a lot of obvious reach-in fouls last night. He uses his hands too much and his feet too little, which is fairly common for out of shape athletes. The refs may be giving him the Andray Blatche treatment, but I'd say he comes by most of his fouls the honest way... by committing them.

Great line. People mentioned the body language, the not being in shape... can you imagine being the Wiz coach if he was added to their frontline? CCJ would be the only person in America who wouldn't lose his mind coaching that team.

[Zonkerbl]

I think Demarcus Cousins suffers a lot because he's a jerk and gets the treatment he deserves. He made one move on McGee and handed the ball to him like, I just owned you. Did the same thing on the next play where he used his butt to shove McGee out of the way for the layup, I think he was staring somebody down, maybe the bench.

And then he went 4-19 for the game, picking up a technical foul for whining in the process. And if I was a ref I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt either, especially if you're a rookie. If you're staring people down and being an a-hole I'm not going to give you any calls if I can help it, because I don't want players punking each other during the game, that's going to lead to bloodshed and I won't have it.

I can understand someone copping an attitude like that if you're putting up Karl Malone like numbers but -- 4-19? Really? Maybe you should just shut up and produce first before barking like you're the second coming of KG?

[Kanyewest]

Cousins actually didn't get called for a lot of obvious reach-in fouls last night. He uses his hands too much and his feet too little, which is fairly common for out of shape athletes. The refs may be giving him the Andray Blatche treatment, but I'd say he comes by most of his fouls the honest way... by committing them.

I actually think the fouls called on Cousins were legit. But there were instances where I thought that Cousins deserved to go to the free throw line. There was certainly one time when McGee pushed Cousins in the back, but no foul was called. A lot of 50-50 calls went in the Wizards favor, but maybe that had to do with the fact that the Kings were the away team.

[willbcocks]

Wall looks like a future superstar. Cousins looks like a low post scorer who can dominate but is not dependable (fouls, defense, attitude). Nothing's changed since the draft.

Landry Fields was East rookie of the month. He is crucial right now to a winning team's success. He is more impactful than Wall if for no other reasons than he lets the game come to him.

http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/

See where this link rates Wall.

Oops, lost track of this thread for a while.

Perhaps I am treating Cousins unfairly compared to Wall, who I am giving a lot more room for future improvement because of his attitude and physical abilities.

I watch Wall and think he will be a superstar, and one who's best quality is precisely his ability to help his team win. He does certain things now, like driving through traffic with body control and having an understanding of where teammates want to receive the ball, that are already elite. His shot has been way better than I expected, as have his turnovers (I thought his ast/to would be 2/1 or less). On the other side, his release is slow, his handle loose, and his defense Gilbertesque. But these problems are not due to Wall's physical abilities, and I believe he has the mentality to improve. Maybe he doesn't improve, in which case he's the next marbury, but he's made me believe in him. Like so many other parts of this team, Wall needs two years.

Cousins doesn't make me believe because of his attitude. That makes me think his future is a lot closer than Wall's to what we see now. And, unlike Wall, he has physical limits--he doesn't have elite length or jumping ability. I believe that for big men, defense counts about 3x more than it does for little guys, and Cousins not only sucks on D now and doesn't seem to have the attitude to improve, but even if he does he'll only be average. I think he'll be a decent player but not a superstar like 2-years-from-now Wall.

Fields I like a lot. He doesn't have upside, but he is an elite role player who would help any team in this league. I wouldn't trade Wall or even McGee for him, but anyone else on the team I'd swap in a second. It's amazing that he was on nobody's draft radar.

[willbcocks]

I'm also glad that Wall's getting embarrassed out there on D. He's going to have to watch himself get burned by an undrafted rookie for the game tying bucket--that's the kind of thing that should make him want to improve.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What's most impressive to me is you guys saw Cousins go 4-19 and none of you are as down on him as many were pre-season. Also, none are quite as high on Wall as a superstar.

Too busy to say much, other than the comment about what you see now being close to what you get from Cousins could be close. But I think if he makes physical improvements and refines his offense and learns to play the refs he'll become much more effective. Always a bit floor-bound and no high-riser, but very good.

Wall's got the tools to bump to superstar but he's not as competitive as Cuz. Go figure. Wall will probably be a multiple all star in time.

Both guys have holes in their games, but Wall doesn't have a hole in his brain; whereas it remains to be seen if Cuz can chill out with ref abuse.

[willbcocks]

I think Wall is as competitive as anyone in the league. The guy laughs a lot on the court (usually while talking smack it looks like), but when the game is tight his demeanor sometimes turns downright nasty and he always seems to want the ball in his hands at the end.