What was wrong with John Wall tonight at allstar?

[dangermouse]

I know I really enjoyed watching him tonight.. I'm sure you guys are tougher on him cuz you always watch him play, but I really loved him out there.

Got these 2 dunks of his:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlQu-ULCSN4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9sF8LHdfCA[/youtube]

He should have been in the dunk comp...

that tomahawk was f****ing sick. way better than yet another dissapointing dunk contest.

really, someone needs to tell these idiots to keep it simple. a dunk with the lights out so no one can see it... really? thats the best idea you had? what a moron.

[GhostsOfGil]

Ya... that was the nail in the coffin. Definitely have no interest in watching another all star weekend ever again... until another Wizard is represented.

[fishercob]

WAll is averaging 18/8.5 shooting 48% in Feb under Wittman. How much more can we expect given the poor players around him?

this is mad true and thats why I take up for him alot but I also think he's talented enough that with the right coach & right system, that he could carry even a bad time to more wins or at the very least, put up monster stats on a bad team.

I don't think anyone disputes the numbers, but similar to Tyreke Evans and Carmelo Anthony, it seems like their teams play better without them.

When have the Wizards played better without Wall?

[Zonkerbl]

I liked the glow in the dark dunk. It's an awesome idea. It probably worked better live than it did on tv.

[tontoz]

When have the Wizards played better without Wall?

Garbage time

[JonathanJoseph]

When have the Wizards played better without Wall?

Well, it appears to me that the half court offense frequently runs better when Mack is at the point and the on/off numbers would support that assertion.

[tontoz]

When have the Wizards played better without Wall?

Well, it appears to me that the half court offense frequently runs better when Mack is at the point and the on/off numbers would support that assertion.

No they don't, assuming of course they were reliable. They don't show that at all.

[JonathanJoseph]

When have the Wizards played better without Wall?

Well, it appears to me that the half court offense frequently runs better when Mack is at the point and the on/off numbers would support that assertion.

No they don't, assuming of course they were reliable. They don't show that at all.

Here are the links, check for yourself.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112WAS.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/1112WAS1.HTM

[tontoz]

Here are the links, check for yourself.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112WAS.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/1112WAS1.HTM

The Wizards are scoring 4 more ppg when Wall plays.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS1.HTM#onoff

and 2.1 ppg less when Mack plays.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS3.HTM#onoff

So how can you look at those numbers and conclude that the half court offense is run better with Mack?

*smh*

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Well, it appears to me that the half court offense frequently runs better when Mack is at the point and the on/off numbers would support that assertion.

No they don't, assuming of course they were reliable. They don't show that at all.

Here are the links, check for yourself.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112WAS.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/1112WAS1.HTM

JJ, I have absolutely no problem agreeing that the frequently doesn't mean always; and, Mack does better in half court than Wall fairly frequently. I respect disparate opinions and try to engage in intelligent debate. I do not respect childish, personal attacks, from close-minded, small-minded fools.

I also know that the single biggest idiot I have ever come across on this board is going to defend John Wall. NC for no class, and I will not even mention his name or post a quote or paste a jpg image.

I will flat out say I have no respect for you.

[tontoz]

CCJ do you think Wall is a superstar in the making or a bust today? Why don't you find some more bogus links to support your opinion, whatever it happens to be today?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ do you think Wall is a superstar in the making or a bust today? Why don't you find some more bogus links to support your opinion, whatever it happens to be today?

http://www.hoopdata.com/splits.aspx?player=John%20Wall

Because you asked a legit question, and because you are not dumb I actually display your posts even though I have you on ignore.

The past 10 games, and even since the start of February, Wall has played great for the most part. His eFG, has climbed over 50%. He's scoring over 20ppg. His assists are climbing toward 10 apg. His midrange shot is a whole lot better (see shots from 3-9 feet and 10-15 feet) and he's getting to the line more, where John is a terrific FT shooter. On offense, he's a star heading for greater IMO. Yes, he will likely be an offensive superstar, tontoz. That's what I think today.

Defensively, he blocks shots and the effort is there. John Wall still is not a great defender by any stretch, but he might be approaching average--which IMO is a leap for him. He's got the physical tools to be a great defender. Will he ever be a great defender? I don't know. Wall is feisty and competitive.

What I will still say is agree with JJ that Mack can run the team in halfcourt better at times. I think it is because Shelvin won't turn it over much and Shelvin can hit a three. That allows for better spacing and for others to convert. John Wall will really be great when he begins to hit the three and he locks down on defense. Then, he will be the complete package.

I like Wall now and would consider him easily the most improved Wizard, simply because he is hitting shots now and playing even more assertively.

[tontoz]

^ I can agree with all of that, especially the part about me not being dumb.

But the reality is that your opinion about Wall was very close to mine most of last season. I was very critical of Wall in Jan of last season as were you. He picked up his play a lot starting in Feb which both of us took note of, several times. I remember what you were posting even if you don't.

I don't have a personal vendetta against you. But when you make up a story and try to back it up with bogus links you are just begging me to dig up old posts. Calling me names doesn't help your case either.

[Nivek]

Guys, the numbers at 82games were last updated on February 15. The up-to-date numbers from basketballvalue.com show the Wizards at +1.5 points per 100 possessions offensively when Wall is on the floor. They're -1.0 per 100 possessions when Mack is on the floor. Basically, about the same offensively whether either guy is in the game.

[Illuminaire]

I agree with your last two paragraphs very much, CCJ.

I would add some specifics. Generally, when the rest of the team is hitting a decent number of open looks, Wall looks like a good (or even great) half court PG. He creates lanes, penetrates at will, and finds teammates for wide open looks on a regular basis.

When the rest of the team is not hitting shots, though, the spacing breaks down. In those situations Mack looks "better" because he creates his own spacing with a somewhat more reliable outside shot. I do not believe for a moment that Mack is actually the superior half-court passer, playmaker, or even decision maker. But he can shoot better, and that does matter.

Looking forward, Wall needs to work hard on his shot. It will open the game up for him. He doesn't need to be Steve Nash automatic, but he needs to be dangerous enough to guard beyond the three. Ideally, he improves some this off-season and the Wiz pick up a shooter or two.

[tontoz]

Guys, the numbers at 82games were last updated on February 15. The up-to-date numbers from basketballvalue.com show the Wizards at +1.5 points per 100 possessions offensively when Wall is on the floor. They're -1.0 per 100 possessions when Mack is on the floor. Basically, about the same offensively whether either guy is in the game.

I wanted to see where JJ was coming up with the belief that the numbers showed Mack being better offensively since they show the exact opposit. I knew they hadn't been updated since the 15th.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

^ I can agree with all of that, especially the part about me not being dumb.

But the reality is that your opinion about Wall was very close to mine most of last season. I was very critical of Wall in Jan of last season as were you. He picked up his play a lot starting in Feb which both of us took note of, several times. I remember what you were posting even if you don't.

I don't have a personal vendetta against you. But when you make up a story and try to back it up with bogus links you are just begging me to dig up old posts. Calling me names doesn't help your case either.

What I said about not remembering Wall playing well last season was 100% from the heart. I didn't make up ish. The first link was quite legit about was Wall a bust. Didn't read much of any of the other links--but all had comments about Wall not being the player he could or should be. The word bust was flagged in every link. Not bogus.

The whole dumb conversation is what bothered me the most.

I said exactly what I meant. Up until recently I thought Wall was a bust. Recently for me is this season. I think of 40-point losses to Philly, and IMO the Wizards cannot lose like that if Wall is a superstar or even star. That may be what you call my agenda or bias against Wall. Fine. I think of all the losses where Wall went into hero mode. Sure, he's NEVER ALONE in that. Nick and Jordan Crawford play that way for the most part, but they didn't go #1 overall. I always temper my expectations of Wall. He went #1 overall. Until around the NY Knicks game, where IMO Wall came to the conclusion HE IS BETTER THAN LIN, I think Wall didn't play so well. (Didn't even think about last year, at the end of the season what you retrieved.) All I thought was Wall lacked poise and didn't seem too sharp.

However, a lot has changed in the past 15-20 games.

Wall is playing much better basketball. Seems like he found his confidence and he's playing steady, no matter how badly his teammates play. I have absolutely no problem with John Wall's game now. He can learn to hit a three. I think that will come sooner than later. He also can learn to play physical defense.

As far as me making up bogus stuff, that's pretty much where I have a problem with you, tontoz. I have forgotten more things I have said than what most people have posted on realgm. I'm not trying to cover my tracks. I generally like to see the best in every player. I am sure I have proclaimed Javale a good player and a future all star. I remember liking Blatche's game. I think, after only one good game, maybe Singleton has game. With Crawford hitting shots lately, I want him to succeed. (But logic says the last two games can't play well IMO).

Heck, I even pulled for Flip to turn it around and I couldn't stand the man's coaching for three years!

So, that's it. I didn't make up anything on Wall. The main thing about Wall IMO is he is playing DRAMATICALLY BETTER the past 5 weeks, IMO.

[tontoz]

The story you made up was there being a lot of people that thought Wall was a bust a few weeks back. Just because you believed it doesn't mean other people did. One of the links you posted was from before Wall was even drafted for crying out loud.

Maybe you should speak for yourself and stop trying to speak for other people.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The story you made up was there being a lot of people that thought Wall was a bust a few weeks back. Just because you believed it doesn't mean other people did. One of the links you posted was from before Wall was even drafted for crying out loud.

Maybe you should speak for yourself and stop trying to speak for other people.

You don't think a lot of people thought Wall was disappointing? I will take the word bust out of it. Let's say disappointing.

Not to rehash, but to better elaborate than I did before. Here is a better list of critics of Wall. This time with quotes. (I will even tell you the names of the critics)

First, an article dated 2/23/12 by Sean Cribben, chasing23.com)

http://chasing23.com/what-does-the-futu ... john-wall/

And yet while it’s tempting to chalk up his squad’s struggles as the inevitable growing pains of a youthful and incomplete team, Wizards fans would be entirely justified in worrying over the long-term prospects of both their franchise and their star point guard. NBA history is replete with cautionary tales of young, talented players who were granted too much responsibility too early in their careers, and who were thus forced to adopt bad habits in order to prevent their teams from tumbling into the abyss completely

So what does the future hold for John Wall? Unfortunately, Wall’s situation has begun to bear a striking resemblance to those of his more disappointing forebears, particularly in regards to his own progression as a player; he has failed to adequately address and correct those flaws enumerated by Sebastian Pruiti prior to the start of season. Indeed, one could go so far as to argue that he’s actually regressed to some degree. While his shot-selection has improved slightly (according to 82games.com jump shots have constituted 56% of his field goal attempts this season, down from 64% in 2011), he’s committing more turnovers (from 3.8 last year to 4 this season) and directing his team’s offense less effectively (he’s averaging only 7.5 assists this season, down from 8.3 last year).

Yet if guys like Kyrie Irving or Jeremy Lin, neither of whom can even hope to approximate Wall’s physical gifts, can shoulder their relatively inept squads and carry them to respectability, why can’t Wall, who earned favorable comparisons to Derrick Rose prior to the 2010 Draft? Are we really expected to believe that the Cavs’ or Knicks’ role players are that much better than the Wizards’? And aren’t superstars supposed to compensate for their teammates’ deficiencies, and wring as much from a bad situation as possible?

This will get lengthy, so I will post the rest in another post.

NOTE: I told you how I feel about Wall. I am also going to show you that MANY OTHERS have doubts about John Wall. More than I do now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here is actually a very good breakdown of Wall's game from before this season. Sebastian Pruiti, who I've seen on NBATV, actually credits Wall for having a very good rookie season despite his flaws. Pruiti wrote this for grantland.com.

(This does not support me saying this guy thinks Wall is a bust, Regardless, I think it is a very good read.)

How John Wall Can Become a Star in His Second NBA Season

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/732 ... nba-season

Why does someone with John Wall's skills — a great first step, strong ballhandling, and the ability to finish at the rim — struggle so mightily in the half court?

Bad habits. Wall settles for jump shots way too often. Whether they are open or contested, Wall's taking a jump shot instead of driving to the rim is a win for the defense.

On some possessions, Wall seems to decide that it is his duty to score. Usually when this happens, he puts his head down and tries to get to the rim. That's good. But this is the NBA, and sometimes the defense will be able to cut off Wall's drives. When that happened last season, Wall too often settled for contested jump shots. Instead of shooting in these situations, he should have pulled the ball back with his dribble or kicked it out with a pass.

If Wall wants to make the leap this season, he needs to start attacking the rim more often. The problems with Wall's shots are correctable — he tends to take his eyes off the rim before releasing the ball, he doesn't get quite enough lift on his jumpers, and his elbows tend to flare out too much. But even if he corrects his form, Wall won't become such a good shooter that it will make sense for him to settle for jumpers instead of penetrating.

The second area in which Wall needs to improve this season is his pick-and-roll play. Specifically, he has to take better care of the basketball. When Wall looks for his teammates, he forces too many passes, which results in turnovers. In pick-and-roll situations, Wall's PPP of 0.666 was in the bottom quarter of the NBA. For the most part, that number was so low owing to the fact that Wall turns it over 19 percent of the time on ball screens.

Note, this was from before the season. Wall is running pick and roll a whole lot better, recently.