Mack and Cook Cut

[TheBigThree]

Hell, I'd cut Cartier and pick up Livingston. That'd allow us to use Pargo as a combo guard and Cartier was horrible in the pre-season.

[DMVleGeND]

You're crazy overrating Mack CCJ. Most times last season and this season in SL/preseason when he was in the game, the offense would go in the tank because he can't create for himself and others, and that's HUGE problem because we don't have many shot creators on the team. He would play too conservative, and was too slow and unathletic to get to the rim and finish on the rare times he got there. He's just too slow, unathletic, and unskilled for this league.

[DMVleGeND]

We need to sign Delonte West or Shaun Livington (in that order).

I know most people want to stay away from West because of his character issues, but if he acts up again, just cut him. All it'll take is a cheap contract to get him here.

[truwizfan4evr]

We need to sign Delonte West or Shaun Livington (in that order).

I know most people want to stay away from West because of his character issues, but if he acts up again, just cut him. All it'll take is a cheap contract to get him here.

i agree

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You're crazy overrating Mack CCJ. Most times last season and this season in SL/preseason when he was in the game, the offense would go in the tank because he can't create for himself and others, and that's HUGE problem because we don't have many shot creators on the team. He would play too conservative, and was too slow and unathletic to get to the rim and finish on the rare times he got there. He's just too slow, unathletic, and unskilled for this league.

DMVleGeND, I respect your opinion. Most people seem to be very lukewarm on Mack for the reasons you stated. Let me explain, thoroughly, why I do not believe I am overrating Mack at all:

http://www.nerdnumbers.com/splits?team= ... F31%2F2012

One way I rate Mack is by looking at Wins Produced/48 and Points over Par/48. If you sort the numbers there were a group of players who all were in the middle. Vesely, Seraphin, Singleton, and Mack all had very neutral numbers. Not positive or negative. As bad as Singleton was offensively, he was a decent defender.

If you question the validity of the tool, look at the top of the sorted listed and the bottom. James Singleton and Nene had strong, positive effects. A couple players by the name of Jordan Crawford and Andray Blatche had strong negative effects.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS3.HTM

Another way I rate Mack is by his floor time stats. If you look at Player Floor Stats by Position, (in the middle of the page if you scroll down the link), Mack at PG has some numbers. I've looked at them and thought about the implications. Near the bottom, On/ Off Court Stats gives a Net Points Per 100 possessions. Shelvin played 779 minutes and the net is interesting. +5.5 Points! If you look at the Wizards eFG% when Shelvin played, and their eFG% by opponents when Shelvin played--there are assumptions you can make. The opponents shot a lot better when Shelvin was not playing, but the Wizards did not shoot better. If he played against backups he still held his own. I cannot find where Shelvin was a liability.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ksh01.html

My favorite stat site has numbers on PER, WS/48, ORtg, DRtg, etc. I rated Shelvin's performance as a rookie and compared those numbers with John Wall's rookie numbers. TRIVIAL OBSERVATION: Last season, Shelvin made 12-42 threes. John Wall made 3-42 threes.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/She ... 858/stats/

Yet another set of stats I like are DX's comprehensive stats. I also consider a player's Basic Stats per 40 Pace Adjusted, and some numbers from the Usage Stats as well as Efficiency stats. Pure Passer Ratio and Win Score/40 are numbers I like. To see how someone like Shelvin did, I would compare his rookie numbers to Wall's. I compared Irving's to Wall's and will also look at J'Rue Holiday. Considering Mack is a backup, i try to keep things in perspective.

"Figures lie and liars figure" or is it "Figures Don't Lie but Liars Do Figure"

I believe Shelvin Mack was waived by an organization at the other end of the "figuring spectrum" from Darryl Morey and the Houston Rockets. EG drafts talent in a scattershot way. He has an eye for talent but he doesn't differentiate or identify what it is that makes talent special. The Wizards let a real decent role player go because he "looked overwhelmed" or "summer league offense didn't run well" or words like that I've heard. Heck, Steven Gray looked fine in summer league. Would Gray have turned the ball over as much as Pargo given the same leeway? Could Gray have made as many shots as Pargo under the same circumstances?

Cutting Mack based on summer league and keeping Pargo show me just how the Wizards run and how little EG and Ted know. Mack performed fairly well last season. If for no other reason than two straight Final Fours, the Wizards should have given Shelvin Mack more respect than to cut him for Pargo. I hope another team picks him up.

Mack is easily replaceable, but it is the principle! Also, I think the Wizards just do not evaluate talent well at all. What I think they do is say if it cost a lot, it must be valuable. Or, if other teams paid for that player, they must be qualitatively better than the young players we have. That is how I believe they think. I truly believe critical thinking skills are at a deficit within the Wizards organization. Ted didn't get to be a billionaire on basketball acumen for darn sure.

James Singleton was totally undervalued after last season, too.

[Induveca]

A few things.....

Singleton I have to agree was impressive. My main issue is why did no other team pick him up? Possibly something we don't know? If all 30 teams failed to even invite the guy to camp, there is likely something we don't know.

Mack, let's see what happens to him. I personally have never viewed him favorably. He was clearly a fish out of water, both physically and mentally year one. He strikes me as a guy who could excel in the Euroleague. Due to basketball boredom, bought a Euroleague season pass down here.

Omar Cook is a damn good player in the EL, same with a number of slower/vertically challenged/under 6'4 solid college players.

Methinks many here are piling on for past decisions, letting Mack walk isn't a horrible call. There is no reason to take away development time for Wall/Seraphin/Beal to help a guy who seems by all accounts to have reached his US ceiling at Butler.

[hands11]

Little things mean a lot to me.

Flip Saunders sent some signals very early on that I reacted to very strongly. Most didn't agree then with me. Took them about a year-and-a-half.

What makes Mack getting cut bother me is it says BS to Wittman running things as a meritocracy. Mack outplayed Pargo in preseason and Mack deserved to make the team, but clearly the coaching staff had no faith in Mack and/or they leaned toward liking Pargo. Why? People who say they both suck and so do Barron and Cook are entitled to their opinion. To me it is a matter of character, integrity, consistency, and transparency. It shows where Wittman, Ted, and EG are coming from.

These guys don't get it and there is a reason this team is perennially lottery-bound. The Wizards organization treats players poorly but in the end they get guys labeled as knuckleheads when in fact, they were never professionally developed or never were simply retained as specialists who had certain strengths but not a total game.

Nick Young is now with a coach and an organization that will maximize what he can do. He is a terrific three point shooter. He has the length to be a good man defender. He does not pass the ball often, does not rebound, and does not have a good court sense of others; but at times he can dominate a game himself. Finally, he has a veteran like Jason Richardson ahead of him. He has a post scorer in Bynum. He has a perimeter big who can pass like Hawes. He has rugged rebounders like Evan Turner and Lavoy Allen on his team. He's got so much around him that there's virtually no way Nick does anything but look good to great as a role player. But had he been developed well, he would be the SG and not Jordan Crawford. As it ended up, last season as a Wizard went terribly for Nick Young. Ended up jacking shots for a contract after he and Javale and Andray were made the pariahs of a losing organization.

I won't go through much of a rant on Javale or Andray Blatche but to say they are now where they can be the role players they could have been in DC, if the GM and owner and coaching had been better.

Mack is a quality guy. His stats from last year were not fully appreciated. payitforward's post in the other thread about the others drafted after him is on point. Regardless of that, as the Wizards' draft pick they once again valued a non-descript veteran from another team over a guy who could have and should have been developed better and retained. On top of that, they once again invested in veterans who if they play well are on one-year contracts and will just go elsewhere like Foye and Mike Miller.

EG is an incompetent and Ted as far as I am concerned is a bad owner.

You left out GO DENVER.

I also left out GO BROOKLYN and GO PHILADELPHIA.

Two years ago, I was happy for Butler, Haywood, and Stevenson even if they just landed in the right spot and didn't make it happen when Dallas won it all.

Last season, I was happy to see Mike Miller hit all those threes in the Finals (and for Nick Young and Foye who at least advanced a round in the playoffs as no-longer-Wizards).

hands, as soon as Javale went to Denver folks said he needed to get off the Wizards. No, the guy is not bright at all and he is still the same player. Yet, he makes less money and has played more playoff games than EG's "Renaissance Man", Emeka Okafor. He is six years younger, too.

This season, Doug Collins gets to rehabilitate the image of Nick Young. Shot that three very well in the playoffs for the Clippers last season, BTW. He played well enough and might start for Philly.

hands, I root for just about everybody to do well. The only time I root against folks is when I find them to be very objectionable. I'm tired of seeing EG and Ted ruin my basketball hopes for the Wizards while trashing players along the way. They made Gilbert rich but also a scapegoat in the end.

So, yeah, GO DENVER! I'm happy Pam and Javale got what they wanted. Andray Blatche has limitations, character issues, and can be a Jordan Crawford jacker. That said, he's also capable of being a good role player on a good team. While he was in DC and not injured, I hoped they could trade him to a team like Boston. That ship sailed, but you will see him do a whole lot better for himself this season as a role player on a talented team.

I root for people even after they make mistakes because Lord knows, I do, too!

CCJ

You read these threads so you know I rooted for all those players. Even when others were slamming them. At one point or another, it was usually you and I or sometimes just one or the other of us pulling for them. Well, the younger ones at least. Most liked Caron. People eventually rallied around Haywood. DS was DS. But McGee was one of two players I wanted us to pick that year. I pimped Nick after his first two bonehead years that he woudn't stop chucking when they were asking him to do other things. He did well when they made him a starter which I supported. As for Dray, I was often a lone voice holding out for him and was early on calling him KG jr. But Dray blow it in a major way last year. They couldn't keep waiting on him here.

Where we differ is this. I think the Wiz gave all of them a fair shoot. Actually, in most cases they gave them more then a fair shot. They paid Dray. They started both McGee and Nick. Things not working out here is in a very large part on those players more then this franchise. I think they moved them when it made sense given what they are trying to do and both the McGee and Nick contract demands.

So if they do well elsewhere, I don't see that as a negative reflection on the Wizards. Nick, McGee and Dray needed a change and a fresh start. To much crap when on here while Gil was the head of the circus show. Some things are win wins. The WIz needed to move on and so did each of those players. Ones success doesn't have to equal another failure.

I cheered for Caron and Haywood in Dallas. And if McGee puts on a show in Denver, I will enjoy the highlights. Nick should be Nick and Dray should be Dray. I have a little harder time rooting for those 3 because I feel each let the Wizards and us fans down. But I don't wish them ill like I did LeBron.

[hands11]

You're crazy overrating Mack CCJ. Most times last season and this season in SL/preseason when he was in the game, the offense would go in the tank because he can't create for himself and others, and that's HUGE problem because we don't have many shot creators on the team. He would play too conservative, and was too slow and unathletic to get to the rim and finish on the rare times he got there. He's just too slow, unathletic, and unskilled for this league.

The truth will eventually sink in. I think. Maybe. What. This is the RealGM Wizards board. Never mind.

Wait, isn't that Mack in your Aviator ?

[hands11]

A few things.....

Singleton I have to agree was impressive. My main issue is why did no other team pick him up? Possibly something we don't know? If all 30 teams failed to even invite the guy to camp, there is likely something we don't know.

Mack, let's see what happens to him. I personally have never viewed him favorably. He was clearly a fish out of water, both physically and mentally year one. He strikes me as a guy who could excel in the Euroleague. Due to basketball boredom, bought a Euroleague season pass down here.

Omar Cook is a damn good player in the EL, same with a number of slower/vertically challenged/under 6'4 solid college players.

Methinks many here are piling on for past decisions, letting Mack walk isn't a horrible call. There is no reason to take away development time for Wall/Seraphin/Beal to help a guy who seems by all accounts to have reached his US ceiling at Butler.

I say the Singleton thing comes down to a few things.

Here only played part years. What .. like 15-20 games.
He posted good numbers on a bad team.
He is a tweaner.
Age
He wanted to much money.

And he wants to start. If not, he doesn't mind playing in China where he gets paid, starts and gets all those Asian hotties.

He will likely find a home again come Feb. That seems to be this gig. What not to like. Hell, if I was him, I would probably do the same thing.

[payitforward]

You're crazy overrating Mack CCJ. Most times last season and this season in SL/preseason when he was in the game, the offense would go in the tank because he can't create for himself and others, and that's HUGE problem because we don't have many shot creators on the team. He would play too conservative, and was too slow and unathletic to get to the rim and finish on the rare times he got there. He's just too slow, unathletic, and unskilled for this league.

None of the above. He averaged an adequate number of assists, and he doesn't turn the ball over.

Anyway it's just a matter of comparing him to Pargo -- who does pretty much everything way way worse than Mack; not to mention that there's no question of him getting better at 32. Whereas Mack has obviously not reached his ceiling.

[payitforward]

You're crazy overrating Mack CCJ. Most times last season and this season in SL/preseason when he was in the game, the offense would go in the tank because he can't create for himself and others, and that's HUGE problem because we don't have many shot creators on the team. He would play too conservative, and was too slow and unathletic to get to the rim and finish on the rare times he got there. He's just too slow, unathletic, and unskilled for this league.

The truth will eventually sink in. ...

What makes someone a good player, Hands?

In particular, what makes Pargo a better choice than Mack? Is it the turnovers? Or maybe the ridiculously low FG% (in preseason and for his career)? Do tell -- what exactly makes him worth having on any NBA team?

Is he good because he's on our team? Because Ernie decided to keep him? I'm eager to see what you point to in his favor. I can't think of a single thing.

Finally, let me ask you this -- do you think any other NBA team would have signed him if we hadn't?

[dangermouse]

I thought Mack had a good enough preseason to make the team :|

[hands11]

You're crazy overrating Mack CCJ. Most times last season and this season in SL/preseason when he was in the game, the offense would go in the tank because he can't create for himself and others, and that's HUGE problem because we don't have many shot creators on the team. He would play too conservative, and was too slow and unathletic to get to the rim and finish on the rare times he got there. He's just too slow, unathletic, and unskilled for this league.

The truth will eventually sink in. ...

What makes someone a good player, Hands?

In particular, what makes Pargo a better choice than Mack? Is it the turnovers? Or maybe the ridiculously low FG% (in preseason and for his career)? Do tell -- what exactly makes him worth having on any NBA team?

Is he good because he's on our team? Because Ernie decided to keep him? I'm eager to see what you point to in his favor. I can't think of a single thing.

Finally, let me ask you this -- do you think any other NBA team would have signed him if we hadn't?

Again, since you seem to keep missing this. And to start. I never called him a good player so stop making things up Mitt.

He is quicker and a better and more assertive 3 pt shooter who can get hot. They did not keep him because he is an outstanding assists player but for his career, he has similar assist to turnover numbers per mins as Mack. That may not have been true in this preseason, but he also was late to camp learning a new system and he had a little injury thing there to boot. His quickness is better in transition and for cutting to the hoop. Even in a half court set which Mack just can't do because he is no slow and not quick.

Mostly they keep him because he is quicker and a better 3 pt shooter.

And please don't make it out like I actually love him on the team. I didn't say that. I'm just answering why they keep him over Mack. Neither was/is going to be on the team long anyway. But until Wall gets back, they are missing quickness and some shoot taking usage. And he can actually make a 3. And he has more experience.

That's way they picked him over Mack.

For the archives. Seems the WP later summarized what I had been saying about why they keep these two.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... -up-short/

[montestewart]

He [Pargo] is quicker and a better and more assertive 3 pt shooter who can get hot. They did not keep him because he is an outstanding assists player but for his career, he has similar assist to turnover numbers per mins as Mack.

NOT TRUE AT ALL!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y3=2012
Open your eyes, and I'll do the math for you. Career A/T% for Mack=2.77, career A/T% for Pargo=1.74. Mack gets significantly more assists per minute, with significantly fewer turnovers. He also gets significantly more rebounds. But you're right, Pargo's hot 3 pt shooting has resulted in a negligibly greater TS%. I guess he's a tiny bit more efficient a scorer. But he's SOOO HOT!

Now admit that you were flat out wrong Mitt, or leave the room!

[hands11]

He [Pargo] is quicker and a better and more assertive 3 pt shooter who can get hot. They did not keep him because he is an outstanding assists player but for his career, he has similar assist to turnover numbers per mins as Mack.

NOT TRUE AT ALL!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y3=2012
Open your eyes, and I'll do the math for you. Career A/T% for Mack=2.77, career A/T% for Pargo=1.74. Mack gets significantly more assists per minute, with significantly fewer turnovers. He also gets significantly more rebounds. But you're right, Pargo's hot 3 pt shooting has resulted in a negligibly greater TS%. I guess he's a tiny bit more efficient a scorer. But he's SOOO HOT!

Now admit that you were flat out wrong Mitt, or leave the room!

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6454/shelvin-mack

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... nero-pargo

Give it a break. First, all I said was similar and I said they did not keep him because he is an outstanding assists. I just took a quick look at the stat links above. Both had about 2 assists and 1 turnover looking at their stats. I'll admit, I was looking at Pargos last year line when I saw both at around 12 or 13 minutes. But thats beside the point because that wasn't the main point. That wasn't the main reason they kept him. They kept him because he is quicker and a better 3 ball shooter. I said that. You actually posted the link to the stats that show exactly why they keep him.

Better TS, eFG, way better 3 ball, 5 pts better per 36, better FT shooter, 23.5 usage vs 17.
Don't become a lawyer.

Look. Get over it. Mack it gone. Go find another team to root for if you hate everything about this one. This was a fringe move and is in no way worth the outrage some here have give it. So get off my sack. They made the move. I explained why I think they did it. Sorry you don't get it. Not my problem.

[montestewart]

He [Pargo] is quicker and a better and more assertive 3 pt shooter who can get hot. They did not keep him because he is an outstanding assists player but for his career, he has similar assist to turnover numbers per mins as Mack.

NOT TRUE AT ALL!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y3=2012
Open your eyes, and I'll do the math for you. Career A/T% for Mack=2.77, career A/T% for Pargo=1.74. Mack gets significantly more assists per minute, with significantly fewer turnovers. He also gets significantly more rebounds. But you're right, Pargo's hot 3 pt shooting has resulted in a negligibly greater TS%. I guess he's a tiny bit more efficient a scorer. But he's SOOO HOT!

Now admit that you were flat out wrong Mitt, or leave the room!

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6454/shelvin-mack
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... nero-pargo

Give it a break. First, all I said was similar and I said they did not keep him because he is an outstanding assists. I just took a quick look at the stat links above. Both had about 2 assists and 1 turnover looking at their stats. I'll admit, I was looking at Pargos last year line when I saw both at around 12 or 13 minutes. But thats beside the point because that wasn't the main point. That wasn't the main reason they kept him. They kept him because he is quicker and a better 3 ball shooter. I said that. You actually posted the link to the stats that show exactly why they keep him.

Better TS, eFG, way better 3 ball, 5 pts better per 36, better FT shooter, 23.5 usage vs 17.
Don't become a lawyer.

Look. Get over it. Mack it gone. Go find another team to root for if you hate everything about this one. This was a fringe move and is in no way worth the outrage some here have give it. So get off my sack. They made the move. I explained why I think they did it. Sorry you don't get it. Not my problem.

The subject isn't Mack, the subject is your tenuous grasp on the truth, Mitt. When you say something that is flat out wrong (as you frequently do), and I notice, that doesn't make me a lawyer. That makes me observant. Don't state factual inaccuracies to support your point and, when shown to be inaccurate, protest that they were not actually in support of your point. They are inaccurate, and call into question everything that you say, and trying to evade that reality further undermines your credibility. Oh, the lengths you guys will go to distort the truth.

When you post things on this board, would you prefer people to:
A: Not read them at all (and maybe just put you on ignore);
B: Receive each post uncritically, because you is so great and all; or
C: read your posts, agree or disagree with your positions, and offer contrary evidence to your assertions. (You seem to have a big problem with people that actually read your posts. You know, the ones that occasionally question some of your facts, premises, and positions.)

Hands, I don't need you to explain stats to me. You don't even know how to read them. Everyone knows why they let Mack go. Some of us think it was a bad decision, but you know, after years of reading basketball reference, I just today discovered the 3P%, thanks to you pointing it out. I never knew they recorded that stat. Hands, don't you think Pargo has pretty inefficient and low career per/36 production for his usage rate? What is so great about his higher usage rate? And while you observe that Pargo has a marginally higher career eFG% and a negligibly higher TS%, did you notice he has a lower career PER and WS/48. Pretty much every measure that shows good vs. bad weighs in Mack's favor, and believe me, that's a pretty darn low bar. But he does have that higher 3P%, which I'd never heard of before today.

Yes, it's a marginal move, hardly worth the outrage many on this board have expressed toward some that have disagreed with the move. There have been numerous clearly articulated explanations of how apparently marginal moves like this one seem to mirror the wrong headed thinking that usually seems to prevail on EG moves, big and small. That you and others repeatedly misstate, mischaracterize, and reduce these positions to, "Oh, you just have the hots for Mack, right?" or similarly useless drivel, calls into question your reading comprehension, memory, honesty or some other measly defense that allows you to state such unreality and proceed on with life. (And I of course have a theory there too, but that's for another day, Hands. Or should I say, "Dr. Hands?")

Look, you said their career A/T percentages were similar. (You were unequivocally comparing their careers.) THAT WAS THE ISSUE! Fact Check! They are not similar, any more than Steve Nash's and John Wall's are similar. Period. Prove me wrong Mitt, prove me wrong. Ya can't. Don't even try. Ya just can't.

So stop your waffling, rationalizing, qualifying, obfuscating, subject changing, ball hiding, pigeon spotting, target moving, four flushing, double dealing, card counting, fast talking, side stepping, cross eyed, craven, devisive, lowest common denominator tactics. The American people are smarter than that, at least the non-low information citizens keeping a breast of that which they hold closest to their hearts. Willard.

You are wrong Mitt. Election over. You loose.

PS: One last thing Mitt, quit with your fascist, "America: Love It or Leave It" tactics. What next, "Glorious Wizards" reeducation camps? I clearly love America and the Wizards more than you do or ever possibly could, based upon your clearly divided allegiances. So go back to China, or the Cayman Islands, or wherever your money is. Willard.

[closg00]

On a somewhat related note, Houston will be sending Machado to their single affiliation D-league team for development.

[payitforward]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y3=2012
Open your eyes, and I'll do the math for you. Career A/T% for Mack=2.77, career A/T% for Pargo=1.74. Mack gets significantly more assists per minute, with significantly fewer turnovers. He also gets significantly more rebounds. But you're right, Pargo's hot 3 pt shooting has resulted in a negligibly greater TS%. I guess he's a tiny bit more efficient a scorer. But he's SOOO HOT!

Now admit that you were flat out wrong Mitt, or leave the room!

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6454/shelvin-mack

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... nero-pargo

Give it a break. First, all I said was similar and I said they did not keep him because he is an outstanding assists. I just took a quick look at the stat links above. Both had about 2 assists and 1 turnover looking at their stats. I'll admit, I was looking at Pargos last year line when I saw both at around 12 or 13 minutes. But thats beside the point because that wasn't the main point. That wasn't the main reason they kept him. They kept him because he is quicker and a better 3 ball shooter. I said that. You actually posted the link to the stats that show exactly why they keep him.

Better TS, eFG, way better 3 ball, 5 pts better per 36, better FT shooter, 23.5 usage vs 17.
Don't become a lawyer.

Look. Get over it. Mack it gone. Go find another team to root for if you hate everything about this one. This was a fringe move and is in no way worth the outrage some here have give it. So get off my sack. They made the move. I explained why I think they did it. Sorry you don't get it. Not my problem.

Of course this was a fringe move. Then again, I don't like being called Mitt so now I won't leave it alone, no.

I asked you: "how do you make the hard decisions if you can't make the easy ones right?"

I also asked you "what makes a player good?"

No, you didn't "explain why (you) think they did it." What you said, and pretty clearly, was that Pargo was the better of the two players. You also said you preferred Pargo. And that you agreed w/ the decision.

Then you made numbers claims about the players that are wrong. Or perhaps I should say "intentionally misleading" (a/t ration of 1.74 is *not* approximately the same as one of 2.77).

Since you did want to quote numbers however, I assume you think Pargo's career numbers are better than Mack's rookie numbers. Thing is, they're not -- in fact, they aren't even close.

Let me end by asking you this: if you looked at those comparative numbers, and if you saw that Mack's were better, would you change your mind? Would you say that you were wrong about this issue? Or, is it sufficient that Ernie made the decision -- is that enough for it to be right in your mind?

[TomShoe]

Jannero Pargo is 0-3.

I miss Mack already.

[montestewart]

Jannero Pargo is 0-3.

I miss Mack already.

No man, he's 1-4 w/ 3 assists. POG