SVG Says Wall is Not Franchise Caliber

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Im going to hold my answer to this until about Feb.-March when hes in some type of shape and hes running with the team (prayerfully healthy) and we see how hes progressed.

Mike, I have said repeatedly I bet Wall ends up having surgery. That said it would be nice to have things go the way of good health for a change.

Nene so far has exceeded my expectations of how many games available and (relatively) healthy I thought he would be. It would be nice to see Wall playing his best basketball by the end of February. The Wizards will be a whole lot better off moving forward it Wall can show some good progress and remain healthy.

SVG is probably right that Wall isn't a franchise guy, but the Wizards will look significantly better offensively if Wall is at full speed. I look forward to seeing him next to Beal the last half of the season. I don't see how they can't help each other's game. Wall's health being good could be very uplifting.

[hands11]

I'm actually glad SVG said this. Should get Walls competitive juices flowing as he gets closer to returning. That's the kind of thing a competitor uses to his advantage as motivation. But doctors and coaches will need to keep him focused on steady progress and make sure he doesn't force things in his return and that he doesn't try to do to much to soon when he does. They don't need him to take over when he returns, they just need him to grow with the team.

As for doctors. Best of my knowledge, he isn't using the same doctor Gil used. They have clearly taken their time with Wall. I mean. Them taking their time is what people have actually been complaining about in a back handed kind of way because that extra time has lead to speculation that there is more wrong then we know.

As for Wall not being a pure PG. I don't get that comment. That is exactly what he is. Its D Rose that hasn't been. Personally, I'm fine if Wall is not a "franchise" PG if that means he isn't the kind of shoot first PG Gil was. I also prefer that they don't have to over pay for him when the time comes. Rondo is in his 7th year and makes 11M, then 12M and 13M the following years. That is solid value. That's going to be a little harder to pull off with the #1 pick so that is the challenge. I don't want the Wiz forking out CP or DR money on a PG.

[dangermouse]

Give him a Jarrett Jack or a Luke Ridnour type to play next to, either capable of playing off the ball, and watch him become the player people knew he could be.

I, and a majority of this board, have been saying this for 2 years now.

Also, I don't disagree with what SVG said. His criticism is (mostly) sound. As someone else pointed out, adding "yet" to the end of his statement would have been a lot savvier.

When Wall is healthy and back in the swing of things nearing the end of the season, he'll show flashes again and SVG might recant.

[WizardsWorld]

The jury is still out. He of course has the potential to be a franchise player but as said before in this thread the Wizards have done a HORRIBLE job of surrounding him with the right team and environment. Hopefully Beal is a step in the right direction... but other than that nothing of significance.

[mohammed10]

Too early to tell. We have done a terrible job as far as building an environment for him to grow in.

We'll see how he looks after returning from injury.

This.

[Knighthonor]

I'm actually glad SVG said this. Should get Walls competitive juices flowing as he gets closer to returning. That's the kind of thing a competitor uses to his advantage as motivation. But doctors and coaches will need to keep him focused on steady progress and make sure he doesn't force things in his return and that he doesn't try to do to much to soon when he does. They don't need him to take over when he returns, they just need him to grow with the team.

As for doctors. Best of my knowledge, he isn't using the same doctor Gil used. They have clearly taken their time with Wall. I mean. Them taking their time is what people have actually been complaining about in a back handed kind of way because that extra time has lead to speculation that there is more wrong then we know.

As for Wall not being a pure PG. I don't get that comment. That is exactly what he is. Its D Rose that hasn't been. Personally, I'm fine if Wall is not a "franchise" PG if that means he isn't the kind of shoot first PG Gil was. I also prefer that they don't have to over pay for him when the time comes. Rondo is in his 7th year and makes 11M, then 12M and 13M the following years. That is solid value. That's going to be a little harder to pull off with the #1 pick so that is the challenge. I don't want the Wiz forking out CP or DR money on a PG.

Well you have to admit, something about that Shooting PG is good. Look at Prime Gil, Rose, and now K-irvin

[hands11]

I'm actually glad SVG said this. Should get Walls competitive juices flowing as he gets closer to returning. That's the kind of thing a competitor uses to his advantage as motivation. But doctors and coaches will need to keep him focused on steady progress and make sure he doesn't force things in his return and that he doesn't try to do to much to soon when he does. They don't need him to take over when he returns, they just need him to grow with the team.

As for doctors. Best of my knowledge, he isn't using the same doctor Gil used. They have clearly taken their time with Wall. I mean. Them taking their time is what people have actually been complaining about in a back handed kind of way because that extra time has lead to speculation that there is more wrong then we know.

As for Wall not being a pure PG. I don't get that comment. That is exactly what he is. Its D Rose that hasn't been. Personally, I'm fine if Wall is not a "franchise" PG if that means he isn't the kind of shoot first PG Gil was. I also prefer that they don't have to over pay for him when the time comes. Rondo is in his 7th year and makes 11M, then 12M and 13M the following years. That is solid value. That's going to be a little harder to pull off with the #1 pick so that is the challenge. I don't want the Wiz forking out CP or DR money on a PG.

Well you have to admit, something about that Shooting PG is good. Look at Prime Gil, Rose, and now K-irvin

Just my preference and there are some stats to support it.

I always said Gil would not lead them anywhere long term. Spending 18-20M a year on him for a multiyear contract was a mistake. Even if he stayed healthy.

Rose is a special player but Chicago is 17-13 without him. They are a vet team trying to win it all.
Kyrie is a nice player but Cleveland is bad. Just another young team. Specially without mop head but they are not overpaying for him.

Go look at most the top teams. Most are are not over spending on a PG. Nash is 10M. Parker is 12.5. Rondo is 11M. Felton is 4M. MEM has Conley at 7M. Miami has Chalmers at 4M. LAC are paying CP3 18M but this is the last year of that contract. I say the big money is better spent on SG, SG/SF or a pure stud SF with some good front court players that usually cost some money.

Nene at 13M is a good place to spend money and I have no problem with a team spending about that on a really good PG. But 16-20M for one on a multiyear. I think that is a bad idea. I don't want the player who has the ball in their hands trying to over due it as a shoot first PG living up to that. I want them passing the ball around to other good players that I need to buy with that money.

So there are to top teams paying a ton on their PGs long term that are shoot first. Chicago and OKC. It could work. Those are two really good players but they will need a team around them long term. Its risky.

[Dominator83]

WAY too early to tell given the very small sample size combined with being on crap teams, and by crap I mean CRAP!! Im not sure if he'll ever make the Lebron/Durant/Rose stratosphere, but he can still most definately develop into a big time star in this league

[dobrojim]

LOL. I guess I just spent the last 20 minutes composing an unnecessarily long post merely to restate what everyone already said.

Glad I never do that (yeah right)

[dobrojim]

I actually agree with SVG on the decision-making. I don't think it's an issue of low hoops IQ, though. For me, I'm looking largely at the high turnovers. A good number of those are just wasted, careless possessions -- not because he's trying to make a great play and failing. Just being sloppy. I think it's primarily a youth and inexperience issue, so I wouldn't say I'm worried about it. But it's a part of his game that I think needs to improve.

It's true that his TO rate is higher than we would like.

I think a better jump shot is the answer to that problem.
This is a bread/butter play for many PGs and when that play (the J behind the screen)
becomes the focus of opp defense, his drive, which is what they
are now playing him for, will become less forced and presumably
less TO prone.

[dobrojim]

Fact
The wizards player development sucks...
Look how nick young...blatche...mcgee are playing with their new teams
For Wall to have career averages of what cp3 is averaging this yr on the suckiest team says something
I think he has it...its a confidence thing....sorta like rose when he started...he wasnt postioning his self as team leader till he realize he the only choice...wall has to gain that confidence.
He started his career as one of the best def pg ever till his 8th game and derrick rose killed his ankles offensivesly....after that he hasnt played with the same defensive intensity...
I think coming back from this injury next to this veteran front court with beal on the wing..wall will shine...especially if he comes back with the intent of trying to show the wizards are no joke

It may be (as Brooks Robinson used to say on Os TV) a combination of factors
but I would suggest that it's more about the players than the development/coaching staff.
Improving your basketball skills isn't rocket science. It's dedication to the task at hand.
Doing the work, getting reps. That's on the players.

Nick Young ain't doing anything in PHL he didn't do here.
McGee may have gotten a bit better but is still below avg defensively
(typed without researching the actual numbers but I bet I'm right)
Blatche is the same guy he was here except he's been more motivated.
So he's had a couple decent games. He's still not very good.

[Nivek]

I actually agree with SVG on the decision-making. I don't think it's an issue of low hoops IQ, though. For me, I'm looking largely at the high turnovers. A good number of those are just wasted, careless possessions -- not because he's trying to make a great play and failing. Just being sloppy. I think it's primarily a youth and inexperience issue, so I wouldn't say I'm worried about it. But it's a part of his game that I think needs to improve.

It's true that his TO rate is higher than we would like.

I think a better jump shot is the answer to that problem.
This is a bread/butter play for many PGs and when that play (the J behind the screen)
becomes the focus of opp defense, his drive, which is what they
are now playing him for, will become less forced and presumably
less TO prone.

That could be. This reminds me of another area for improvement, though -- how he uses screens. Wall doesn't get maximum value from screens set for him because he doesn't use them properly. A jumper would definitely help, but he could boost his efficiency and effectiveness if he'd use screens correctly.

Specifically, he leaves too much space between himself and the screener. The guy using the screen should be tight to the screener -- his shoulder should brush against the screener as he goes past. By leaving space, Wall makes it easier for the defender to get through. He doesn't force the defender to make a choice of chasing him around the screen or of sliding under. The defender can often just stay with him past the pick. Often times, the big ends up getting blamed, but it's actually the ball-handlers responsibility because the big is supposed to be at least relatively set.

Getting a jumper will help enormously, but it won't fix everything. Wall still needs to use screens better, learn how to change speeds, and reduce turnovers. There's no question in my mind that he can do it. Just a matter of work ethic and listening to coaches. (Assuming that coaches are in his ear about how he's used screens thus far in his career. If they're not trying to correct that...sigh...let's hope they are.)

[dobrojim]

Agreed

seems like a lot of players on the zards leave too much space
which pretty much negates the designed advantage that is
supposed to be achieved.

[montestewart]

I've seen Seraphin and Vesely get the foul for moving that pick to try and compensate.

[dobrojim]

I'll give JCraw some props here. He's one G of ours that actually
will cut hard in tight to the screen. I also like that he will often then
change directions once past the screen. Get to the middle. Then you
have more options.

[hands11]

I actually agree with SVG on the decision-making. I don't think it's an issue of low hoops IQ, though. For me, I'm looking largely at the high turnovers. A good number of those are just wasted, careless possessions -- not because he's trying to make a great play and failing. Just being sloppy. I think it's primarily a youth and inexperience issue, so I wouldn't say I'm worried about it. But it's a part of his game that I think needs to improve.

It's true that his TO rate is higher than we would like.

I think a better jump shot is the answer to that problem.
This is a bread/butter play for many PGs and when that play (the J behind the screen)
becomes the focus of opp defense, his drive, which is what they
are now playing him for, will become less forced and presumably
less TO prone.

That could be. This reminds me of another area for improvement, though -- how he uses screens. Wall doesn't get maximum value from screens set for him because he doesn't use them properly. A jumper would definitely help, but he could boost his efficiency and effectiveness if he'd use screens correctly.

Specifically, he leaves too much space between himself and the screener. The guy using the screen should be tight to the screener -- his shoulder should brush against the screener as he goes past. By leaving space, Wall makes it easier for the defender to get through. He doesn't force the defender to make a choice of chasing him around the screen or of sliding under. The defender can often just stay with him past the pick. Often times, the big ends up getting blamed, but it's actually the ball-handlers responsibility because the big is supposed to be at least relatively set.

Getting a jumper will help enormously, but it won't fix everything. Wall still needs to use screens better, learn how to change speeds, and reduce turnovers. There's no question in my mind that he can do it. Just a matter of work ethic and listening to coaches. (Assuming that coaches are in his ear about how he's used screens thus far in his career. If they're not trying to correct that...sigh...let's hope they are.)

Very true. This was a problem of Walls. Now the pick setters were also bad but Wall made it even worse by leaving to soon. Kevin got a lot of fouls this way. McGee was terrible. Ves was good at least. So was Booker.

I remember he improved his change of pace last year but its been to long for me to remember if he fixed this at all. Now, Nene and Okafor will clearly set good picks and they has the BBIQ to tell Wall what to do if he is blowing it. I do recall that one P & R Nene and Wall did.. I think against Miami.. to win the game. This isn't a hard thing to fix if you have good pick setters and coaching.

[dobrojim]

why have not they fixed it by now?

this is not a new problem

[Dark Faze]

To be fair there are like 3 players that you can actually build around and expect to win a chip in this league: LeBron, Kobe, and Durant.

There are guys on the edge of that list like Dirk, Chris Paul, and Melo. In the case of Dirk its been proven, the others we'll have to see.

So yea not many teams have "that guy" but Wall has the potential to be good enough to take another couple of players of his caliber deep in the playoffs.

[Nivek]

Kobe doesn't belong in that group. He's having an excellent season, and he is a guy you can build around, but he's not close to that top echelon.

Based on performance so far this season, these are the guys I'd consider title-contender building blocks -- as in, you get one of these guys and some average players and you're a contender -- Lebron, Chris Paul, Durant, Duncan.

Then there are guys who are producing well enough that they could be the lead player on a title contender, but they'd need help from a strong #2: Carmelo, Brook Lopez, Parker, Kobe, Griffin, Harden, Ginobili.

Nene is the Wizards highest ranked player, and he'd be best suited as a 2nd or 3rd guy with one of these guys above him as the team's best player. He'd be pretty nice in combo with Harden down in Houston.

[MJG]

To me, a franchise player is someone who can be the best player on a legitimate title contender. In that sense, I agree with SVG, that Wall doesn't feel like a likely franchise player through his first two years (though I don't agree with his reasons why that is). By no means would I say it's a lock that he won't reach that level down the line, but it seems pretty unlikely to me. If I had to throw out a prediction, I'd say he feels more like someone who at best will make a handful of all-star games, maybe sneak in an all-NBA third team nod in his best season, and that's that.

I'd obviously love for that to not be the case, but as a Wizards fan of many years, I see no reason to get my hopes up.