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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#41 » by doclinkin » Fri May 31, 2013 7:38 am

Eh, I had a Dat2U quote from the other thread, but got derailed by delicious WizNastiness.

Something like this:
Dat2u wrote:Emphasis IMO should be place on b-ball IQ, work ethic & b-ball character when drafting that high.


And trying to find measurables for that. The pet measurables I like to showcase BBIQ and gutty effort are:

-- Defensive rebounding which is often more about positioning and effort than height and bounciness, and even short dudes who rebound manage to carry this aspect into the pros.
-- Assists at positions other than PG.
-- Take a peek at shooting efficiency measures. Do they force bad shots or take what the defense gives them.
-- Free Throw %. Which is entirely a measure of gymrattery and strength of concentration.
-- Steals, especially not from backcourt players, suggest awareness and reaction speed. If you get a SF candidate with good steals numbers you're happy. They commonly become solid wing defenders. Also SF's and SGs who block shots without fouling. Used to love the blocks+steals/personal foul metric before DX removed it from their dbase.

Then I'll look to see how their physical anthropometrics match up against other players at their likely NBA position. Are they within the range of plausible? Standing reach and lane agility especially are the two that seem to carry over. Jumping matters more for attacking slashing wing types (especially dudes with high free throw attempt numbers) than for interior players -- who can challenge simply by being big and in the right place.

Then I'm looking at their stats vs ranked competition. This is where my players like Faried and S'Curry managed to stand out where others might disappear. Do they get up for big games. If they maintain high stats in these games, or better yet rise up and exceed their season averages then those are the guys I like. Size-of-the-fight-in-the-dog type players. This is where CCJ and I are often on the same page.

If a player has been in school a couple years I look at improvement in each of these categories. Especially maintaining or improving good #'s while their workload increases (possession %'s). You want to see steady advancement, which suggests a player who will adjust and work hard to fix mistakes etc.

If they are a freshman, you can look at their stats over the year. A player who comes on strong towards tourney time is a good bet. This is someone who gets comfortable figuring out what they can and cannot do at this level. I distrust players who tail off as the non-conference schedule is eliminated (except in sucky conferences like the Mountain West which will burn you EVERY year. Babbit, sure, also Dom McGuire, Freddette, etc. -- Kawhi Leonard is the only dude who bucked the trend). I had doubts about in Bradley Beal who was touted as a shooter but whose season avgs did not back that up, until I read the game log and saw him get stronger as the year went by, and even in games where his shot was off he was rebounding well (playing SF on a smallball team), getting to the line, etc. Finding ways to contribute. And suddenly he went off in the tourney. Then he was my guy.

By contrast highly touted prospects who begin with a bang and then falter seem like the type who get by on athleticism alone but fail to adjust once there's a book on how to stop them. Bennett has a few red flags in this respect. (On the one hand he has an injury excuse, on the other hand that too is a red flag given our training staff).

Defense being all about desire and awareness, I steer clear of any player who is one-dimensional here. Especially with our current coach who will bench the helloutta you if you fail to defend with poise and smarts and effort. A talented but one-dimensional player makes a sexy trade asset but does not add much in the way of post-season advancement unless they are a centerpiece franchise caliber scoring machine. Put simply the Spurs only draft 2-way players. Because Pop will not play them if they cannot play both ends. And guess what, our defensive guru learned at Popovich's elbow.

Now I tend to trust the scouts on raw types at the top end of the draft, they've watched these guys longer than I have. My methods work best at the back end of the draft, looking for surprises, value-for-pick, and role-players. This is where I'm telling you guys about Chandler Parsons and the like.

Lastly: it is vogue to pooh-pooh tournament experience. Not me. I value that highly. Especially on the championship team. These are players who know what it takes to win in elimination games. Look for the most valuable big man defender, and the most valuable ballhandler/shot-creator. I knew Mario Chalmers would find a career in the NBA. I suspect Peyton Siva will surprise. Joakim Noah figured to be a better pro than Al Horford since he was the lynchpin defender. Gorgui Dieng will find a role on a winning NBA squad. He rebounds, defends, talks on defense, takes responsibility for the team, makes smart passes. You can get him cheap on a trade down, maybe, but you won't kick yourself for spending a mid-late 1st on him. I won't kill a guy for falling short in the tourney, caoches will gameplan against a single guy, but do like a player who raises up then. Meets the pressure.

And if you can land young key championship players from international squads, taek a 2nd look even on a draft and stash (Marc Gasol). They will have 2-way fundamentals play the right way, and not get your coach fired for lackluster effort. Over there every coach is a Popovich. Because coaches and players do not have guaranteed contracts in the Eurosquads. You win or you are fired. You play the guys who help you win only. If a young guy beats a veteran for playing time, then you can trust him better. Especially if David Blatt is coaching him.

My 2 cents on BBIQ and work ethic.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#42 » by doclinkin » Fri May 31, 2013 8:09 am

What does this mean for my draft this year? LOL: I haven't had time nor inclination to do my homework this year. Busy busy busy.

It does mean I would look at Gorgui Dieng, Sergey Karasev (David Blatt loves him), Siva late.

Early? At 3? I almost wish we had the 8 again.

1. I do like Otto Porter. If he's there I'm happy to grab him. I get the feeling he may go early from someone jumping up to get him. But if he's the pick I'm happy. He's just too good of a fit with Beal and Wall. Spreads the floor, unselfish, works on defense, smart, makes the right play. Love the idea of these 3 growing up together in the league. All make the smart play, rebound well for their position, defend, etc. We might be too good to be more than mediocre, but he won't be better than Webster right out the gate, so we may still have a bite at the apple.

2. Noel. Ohmigod. Okay if he slips, sure, I'll take him. I worry about his frame and injury profile, but he's so damn fast for his size, so heads-up on defense. Understands that side of the court so well at a young age. On the spectrum between Noah and Tyrus Thomas I think we're safely towards the top end. The steals are what catch my eye, his P&R defense more than his blocks. Blocks can be an anti-metric for me, pulling you out of position for a spectacular play or else a blow-by (see Javale). But he blocks without fouling or goaltending. Blocks on the way up. Blocks on the strongside. Blocks to his teammates as though it were a pass a la Bill Russell. Skinny, but with fast feet, rebounds out of his area. I trust he will get stronger, but his mind is fast, that cannot be taught.

3. Trade down and take whomever falls? Consolidate assets into a mid-late pick too? Land future picks?
-- Zeller has grown on me as a PF possibility. Best balance of skill, size, effort, and athleticism, even while he lacks good length to be a dominant defender. I suspect he will develop decent range on his shot and open the floor. He boxes out for others to rebound even if he doesn't nab it. Smart player. An upgrade over Seraphin as a back-up.
-- I like the development of the still-young Len, he defends and may be the best this draft offers as a possible two-way 5, down the line. Upside gamble, just a step ahead of physical marvels Gobert and Adams. But then he's got that foot, so I'd want him checked out by someone NOT on the Wizards staff.
-- Oladipo is intriguing though EVERYbody on that team was efficient on the exterior, which may be a relic of Zeller drawing attention? Still I really like the steady improvement of Office Depot.
-- No question Olynyk is skilled and hard working.

On a trade back I don't think MacElmore falls.
I don't trust Bennett on this team, since he will need to learn to play:
a) defense
b) off the ball
c) without a positive physical mismatch at his position every night
and d) with his injury concerns and our inept medical staff

so a trade back lets us take whatever falls while stockpiling a future asset or consolidating late picks into something earlier. Len, Zeller, Olynyk, Take whomever then write the glowing preview of how they will fit with this squad.

That's sorta the rough sketch of where I am right now. Though I worry that we don't get Porter (or Noel) and Ernie decides to trade it. Select McElmore and hope to swap for something. Devalued because we already have Beal. I dunno.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#43 » by stevemcqueen1 » Fri May 31, 2013 11:07 am

Lot of bad info in the Aldridge articles BTW. He's just reporting what he hears, but those personnel men are lying their butts off to him. I caught a couple of pretty obvious plants in the Zeller section like, "He's not as good as his brother Tyler" and, "He'll need to be familiar with the NBA 3 point line."

Everyone acknowledges he's better than Tyler, that's pretty obvious. And it's also obvious that most NBA bigs can't shoot threes and that is never a requirement for the position.

Teams are obfuscating to try and gain competitive advantages in the draft. Same thing happens every year with the NFL draft.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#44 » by verbal8 » Fri May 31, 2013 11:36 am

stevemcqueen1 wrote:Teams are obfuscating to try and gain competitive advantages in the draft. Same thing happens every year with the NFL draft.


I think this draft looks more like an NFL draft than a lot of them do. I could see a lot of teams trading up and down during and right before the draft this year. I also think their will be a decent number of picks for fit, because the BPA isn't irresistible.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#45 » by stevemcqueen1 » Fri May 31, 2013 12:31 pm

verbal8 wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:Teams are obfuscating to try and gain competitive advantages in the draft. Same thing happens every year with the NFL draft.


I think this draft looks more like an NBA draft than a lot of them do. I could see a lot of teams trading up and down during and right before the draft this year. I also think their will be a decent number of picks for fit, because the BPA isn't irresistible.


Did you mean NFL draft?

There are a lot of trades in an NFL draft because of how many rounds there are for ammunition. Plus second and third and fourth rounders are actually still really valuable in the NFL draft. But I think teams actually trade top five picks in the NBA draft more than they do in the NFL. Most years, the third or fourth overall pick in the NBA draft is worth way less than it would be in the NFL because most years there is only one or two guys who are extremely coveted above every body else.

You're right though, BPA is much more of an NBA thing than NFL thing. NFL teams reach to fill needs all of the time. Part of that is there are more positions to fill I suppose, bigger rosters, much more specialized players. It's rare for an NFL player to be able to play multiple positions, especially on offense, but it's practically the norm in the NBA.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#46 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri May 31, 2013 12:54 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Post by Chocolate City Jordanaire on Fri May 31, 2013 12:40 am


Reggie Bullock, Dario Saric, Tony Snell, Vander Blue, Michael Snaer, Brandon Paul, Carrick Felix, D. J. Stephens


______________________________________________________________________________________________________



I like Bullock a lot. Others worth mentioning are Hardaway and Rice. Also just noticed Solomon Hill has dropped to late 2nd round on DX.


Thanks, SUPER. I must have a strong anti-Michigan bias to leave off Hardaway and Rice Jr. (I know Glen Sr. went to Michigan and Jr. recently was on a D-League champ after he had a troubled couple years at Ga Tech.). Also, I really liked what I saw live from Solomon Hill when Arizona beat Miami. He doesn't do a lot great and he is a tweener but Hill is strong and a top defender at SF.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#47 » by Dark Faze » Fri May 31, 2013 1:07 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
sfam wrote:

Someone needs to inform DA what a sucky pick Bennet is. DA even quoted vet scouts as saying Bennett is one of the "safest picks in the draft". Jeeze, talk about amateur hour. The dude's rep as an expert is taking a big hit here...


That's really funny. I've been hearing the same "high ceiling, low floor" argument for the past week, and it's left me befuddled. Why exactly is Bennett's floor low? Why is he boom or bust? It's hard to imagine his offense failing at the next level, hell it's damn near impossible to imagine that. The defense I can cede, but "bust,"? Almost impossible for me to imagine. People just seem to think, "High Ceiling" and "Boom", must also thusly include, "low floor," "Bust," and "high risk".


huh

Guys have showcased far more prolific offensive abilities in college than Bennett without it translating in the pros.

And Bennetts skillset isn't even that versatile. He's either shooting a set jumpshot, a face up to take a guy off the dribble or shoot, or he's driving in the lane. Just a traditional face up PF skillset. It's not like he's Kelly Olynyk. He doesn't have a skilled post game.

It's not hard at all to see Bennett not being effective if his defense doesn't improve and his shooting percentages go down in the NBA. He'd be a backup at best just like every other tweener.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#48 » by Jay81 » Fri May 31, 2013 1:22 pm

this is an easy pick for us. Its Porter. If he is not there...take Noel......if he is not there take Victor O or Mclemore and make a trade if you have to or move down to get Len. DOnt draft Bennett
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#49 » by Ruzious » Fri May 31, 2013 1:26 pm

doclinkin wrote:What does this mean for my draft this year? LOL: I haven't had time nor inclination to do my homework this year. Busy busy busy.

It does mean I would look at Gorgui Dieng, Sergey Karasev (David Blatt loves him), Siva late.

Early? At 3? I almost wish we had the 8 again.

1. I do like Otto Porter. If he's there I'm happy to grab him. I get the feeling he may go early from someone jumping up to get him. But if he's the pick I'm happy. He's just too good of a fit with Beal and Wall. Spreads the floor, unselfish, works on defense, smart, makes the right play. Love the idea of these 3 growing up together in the league. All make the smart play, rebound well for their position, defend, etc. We might be too good to be more than mediocre, but he won't be better than Webster right out the gate, so we may still have a bite at the apple.

2. Noel. Ohmigod. Okay if he slips, sure, I'll take him. I worry about his frame and injury profile, but he's so damn fast for his size, so heads-up on defense. Understands that side of the court so well at a young age. On the spectrum between Noah and Tyrus Thomas I think we're safely towards the top end. The steals are what catch my eye, his P&R defense more than his blocks. Blocks can be an anti-metric for me, pulling you out of position for a spectacular play or else a blow-by (see Javale). But he blocks without fouling or goaltending. Blocks on the way up. Blocks on the strongside. Blocks to his teammates as though it were a pass a la Bill Russell. Skinny, but with fast feet, rebounds out of his area. I trust he will get stronger, but his mind is fast, that cannot be taught.

3. Trade down and take whomever falls? Consolidate assets into a mid-late pick too? Land future picks?
-- Zeller has grown on me as a PF possibility. Best balance of skill, size, effort, and athleticism, even while he lacks good length to be a dominant defender. I suspect he will develop decent range on his shot and open the floor. He boxes out for others to rebound even if he doesn't nab it. Smart player. An upgrade over Seraphin as a back-up.
-- I like the development of the still-young Len, he defends and may be the best this draft offers as a possible two-way 5, down the line. Upside gamble, just a step ahead of physical marvels Gobert and Adams. But then he's got that foot, so I'd want him checked out by someone NOT on the Wizards staff.
-- Oladipo is intriguing though EVERYbody on that team was efficient on the exterior, which may be a relic of Zeller drawing attention? Still I really like the steady improvement of Office Depot.
-- No question Olynyk is skilled and hard working.

On a trade back I don't think MacElmore falls.
I don't trust Bennett on this team, since he will need to learn to play:
a) defense
b) off the ball
c) without a positive physical mismatch at his position every night
and d) with his injury concerns and our inept medical staff

so a trade back lets us take whatever falls while stockpiling a future asset or consolidating late picks into something earlier. Len, Zeller, Olynyk, Take whomever then write the glowing preview of how they will fit with this squad.

That's sorta the rough sketch of where I am right now. Though I worry that we don't get Porter (or Noel) and Ernie decides to trade it. Select McElmore and hope to swap for something. Devalued because we already have Beal. I dunno.

And 4 is the posibility of trading the pick for a veteran. Dat made a good extensive list of the big men that might be available. I think he narrowed it down to 3, but I only remember 2 - Horford and LMA. Horford would be my top target - probably in a Okafor plus the pick for Horford deal.

On Siva - I was a big Chalmers fan - I'm not a big Siva fan. Chalmers had shooting range and size. Siva's a tough little player, but he reminds me of Jordan Farmar without a jumpshot.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#50 » by verbal8 » Fri May 31, 2013 1:28 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
verbal8 wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:Teams are obfuscating to try and gain competitive advantages in the draft. Same thing happens every year with the NFL draft.


I think this draft looks more like an NBA draft than a lot of them do. I could see a lot of teams trading up and down during and right before the draft this year. I also think their will be a decent number of picks for fit, because the BPA isn't irresistible.


Did you mean NFL draft?

That is correct. Thanks fixed the original post.

stevemcqueen1 wrote:You're right though, BPA is much more of an NBA thing than NFL thing. NFL teams reach to fill needs all of the time. Part of that is there are more positions to fill I suppose, bigger rosters, much more specialized players. It's rare for an NFL player to be able to play multiple positions, especially on offense, but it's practically the norm in the NBA.


Looking at the Draft Express 1st round, it looks like pretty much every player is a 1 position player. Late in the 1st round there are a couple SGs that might have SF length, but that looks like it in terms of versatility.
C.J. McCollum, might have some versatility, but probably needs to become a PG to start for most teams.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#51 » by GhostsOfGil » Fri May 31, 2013 1:36 pm

hands11 wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:I would definitely take Noel at 3. Also there are reports that he's already gained 6 lbs since the combine and his playing weight was 220.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNAndyKatz/status/340159210560053248[/tweet]


Thats from the Noel camp. Of course they are going to say something like that. His draft position is at stake.

If I was in his camp I could be beefing him up as much as possible right now and I would get him on scale some place where his weight could get officially measured.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW4twXrRbfQ[/youtube]


If the report was that he's gained 20 lbs in the past month I would be skeptical but 6 lbs is very believable. Regardless, Noel's weight is not an issue for me anymore.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#52 » by Ruzious » Fri May 31, 2013 1:39 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:
sfam wrote:Someone needs to inform DA what a sucky pick Bennet is. DA even quoted vet scouts as saying Bennett is one of the "safest picks in the draft". Jeeze, talk about amateur hour. The dude's rep as an expert is taking a big hit here...


That's really funny. I've been hearing the same "high ceiling, low floor" argument for the past week, and it's left me befuddled. Why exactly is Bennett's floor low? Why is he boom or bust? It's hard to imagine his offense failing at the next level, hell it's damn near impossible to imagine that. The defense I can cede, but "bust,"? Almost impossible for me to imagine. People just seem to think, "High Ceiling" and "Boom", must also thusly include, "low floor," "Bust," and "high risk".


huh

Guys have showcased far more prolific offensive abilities in college than Bennett without it translating in the pros.

And Bennetts skillset isn't even that versatile. He's either shooting a set jumpshot, a face up to take a guy off the dribble or shoot, or he's driving in the lane. Just a traditional face up PF skillset. It's not like he's Kelly Olynyk. He doesn't have a skilled post game.

It's not hard at all to see Bennett not being effective if his defense doesn't improve and his shooting percentages go down in the NBA. He'd be a backup at best just like every other tweener.

I wouldn't take Bennett because of so many unknowns, but I don't agree with that critique. When his shoulder is right, there's no question he can score inside. You either got it or you don't when it comes to inside scoring - skills be damned. People used to whine about Shaq and Howard not having post-up skills. So What? When they get the ball near the hoop, they score. Obviously, Bennett is not Shaq or Howard (and this is why it'd be helpful to know what his standing reach is), but just as obviously he can score in a vaiety of ways. Kelly Olynyk can have all the post moves in the world, but if Bennett's standing reach is better, I'd rather have Bennett shooting close to the basket than KO.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#53 » by sfam » Fri May 31, 2013 1:44 pm

I totally get people wanting Porter over Bennett, or even Olapido (although I really don't see why we would want to draft backups with the #3 pick, but that just may be me), but this whole business about Bennett not being a viable pick is silly. If the top scouts across the board are listing him in the top 5, he's certainly worthy of a lottery pick. You can make the case for drafting someone other than Bennett without going rediculously overboard.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#54 » by verbal8 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:01 pm

sfam wrote:I totally get people wanting Porter over Bennett, or even Olapido (although I really don't see why we would want to draft backups with the #3 pick, but that just may be me), but this whole business about Bennett not being a viable pick is silly. If the top scouts across the board are listing him in the top 5, he's certainly worthy of a lottery pick. You can make the case for drafting someone other than Bennett without going rediculously overboard.

I think Bennett shows the value of position even in this draft. I don't like him at 3, however I think he would have been a great pick if he slid down to 8th. I think even those who aren't terribly sold on him will agree that he will be able to score in the NBA. He should be able to rebound at least a respectable rate. The big question mark on him is can he play defense and the minor ones with his health.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#55 » by Dat2U » Fri May 31, 2013 2:08 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:Lot of bad info in the Aldridge articles BTW. He's just reporting what he hears, but those personnel men are lying their butts off to him. I caught a couple of pretty obvious plants in the Zeller section like, "He's not as good as his brother Tyler" and, "He'll need to be familiar with the NBA 3 point line."

Everyone acknowledges he's better than Tyler, that's pretty obvious. And it's also obvious that most NBA bigs can't shoot threes and that is never a requirement for the position.

Teams are obfuscating to try and gain competitive advantages in the draft. Same thing happens every year with the NFL draft.


It hurt my head to read that crap. I like Aldridge but the guys he's talking to offer some incredibly poor analysis. I kept asking myself, how do these people have jobs???
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#56 » by Dat2U » Fri May 31, 2013 2:17 pm

sfam wrote:I totally get people wanting Porter over Bennett, or even Olapido (although I really don't see why we would want to draft backups with the #3 pick, but that just may be me), but this whole business about Bennett not being a viable pick is silly. If the top scouts across the board are listing him in the top 5, he's certainly worthy of a lottery pick. You can make the case for drafting someone other than Bennett without going rediculously overboard.


Top scouts listed Hasheem Thabeet as a top 5 pick. Jan Vesely was a conscensous top 10 pick even if this board hated him. Scouts get it wrong. And they get it wrong alot.

I think it's wise to question whether Bennett is a viable pick at #3. I certaintly have my doubts.

It's not even about Bennett personally, it's the fact he's likely a tweener with a questionable motor & IQ. Damn right I'm going to question the validity of a top 3 selection.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#57 » by WizarDynasty » Fri May 31, 2013 2:28 pm

Hasheem Thabeet was easy to figure out. They wanted to compare Thabeet to Dikembe Mutombo.

For some teams, he would have been right but by wizards standards he would have been a bust. Did Thabeet meet 2 of the three criteria. Was Thabeet explosive. Nope. He purposefully didn't take part in the agility drills and he never showed explosive movements in college. I would say he was average explosiveness.
But then we move onto the next questions, did Thabeet show great body control with the basketball. Absolutely not.
Finally did thabeet demonstrate consistent ability to finish through contact in NCAA. Absolutely not.
And specifically for a bigman, did Thabeet show elite lower body strength on offensive and defensive rebounding. Absolutely not. Easy pass on thabeet.

Vesely fails every category if Wizards saw him as a powerforward or Center.

Now if we imagined Vesely as a small forward-- Was Vesely Explosive? Yes slight.
We move on. Did Vesely show above average body control with the basketball, absolutely NOT.
The vesely demonstrate consistent ability to finish through contact. Absolutely not.
The guy can't even dribble the ball on the perimeter to break a guy down, how in the world could he have demonstrated the ability to finish through contact in the Wizard Draft workout. He would have fumbled the ball trying to dribble it against even the slightest of defensive pressure and his ability to finish through contact that's laughable.
He easily failed to meet 2 out of the three criteria to of being a wizard player.
John Wall, explosive yes.
Great body control with the basketball yes.
demonstrated ability to finish through contact yes.

I mean its simple but people let advanced traits over ride the foundation.
A player should always meet the basics before you fall in love with the advanced mental and iq abilities.
IQ and advanced offensive moves mean squat if the player can't pass 2 out of three criteria for being a washington wizard.

and explosive mean you don't need to gather yourself before or after you make an explosive movement. If a player needs to gather himself before he makes an explosive movement, that player is not explosive. If a player makes an explosive movement and then needs to gather himself after that explosive movement in order to make another explosive movement, that player is not explosive. Use that criteria and you can see who is and who is not explosive.
McGee could explode after gathering himself but as soon as he landed from challenging a block, he had to gather himself to make another movement. an explosive athlete doesn't need recharge time to make another explosive movement. A shotblocker who challenges a shot, immediately lands and his able to explode back into help position with his foot movement.
Mcgee would explode and once he landed he no explosion left to burst his body back into the right position.
A player with a quick first step explodes on that first step and his second step is also explosive where he burst again.
Players with no explosiveness don't burst on that first step and their feet are like silly putty stuck to ground as they drive to basket. NO explosiveness.
Explosive athletes don't need recharge time between movements.
Booker has explosiveness but he has no body control with the basketball. He can't move sideways dribbling the ball and he can't draw fouls because of lack of coordination with the ball in his hands.
He can't finish through contact meaning that he doesn't have moves that are designed to force a defender to foul him and still allows him to finish.
If a player hasn't shown above average ability in two of the three categories before coming to wizards, don't draft them.
Build your team w/5 shooters using P. Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time b4 rising into shot. Elbow never pointing to the ground! Good teams have an engine player that shoot volume (2000 full season) at 50 percent.Large Hands
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stevemcqueen1
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#58 » by stevemcqueen1 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:43 pm

Dat2U wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:Lot of bad info in the Aldridge articles BTW. He's just reporting what he hears, but those personnel men are lying their butts off to him. I caught a couple of pretty obvious plants in the Zeller section like, "He's not as good as his brother Tyler" and, "He'll need to be familiar with the NBA 3 point line."

Everyone acknowledges he's better than Tyler, that's pretty obvious. And it's also obvious that most NBA bigs can't shoot threes and that is never a requirement for the position.

Teams are obfuscating to try and gain competitive advantages in the draft. Same thing happens every year with the NFL draft.


It hurt my head to read that crap. I like Aldridge but the guys he's talking to offer some incredibly poor analysis. I kept asking myself, how do these people have jobs???


They're using DA as a vehicle for disinformation. I think NBA personnel people currently working for a team are probably some of the worst sources to go to for information right before a draft. They have an agenda. I bet you could operate on the assumption that, if a guy says he likes a player, it actually means he doesn't like him that much and will pass on him for other options on draft day. And if he's bagging on the guy or trying to damn him with faint praise, it means he's desperately hoping that kid falls to their pick.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#59 » by nate33 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:49 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:They're using DA as a vehicle for disinformation. I think NBA personnel people currently working for a team are probably some of the worst sources to go to for information right before a draft. They have an agenda. I bet you could operate on the assumption that, if a guy says he likes a player, it actually means he doesn't like him that much and will pass on him for other options on draft day. And if he's bagging on the guy or trying to damn him with faint praise, it means he's desperately hoping that kid falls to their pick.

It would be nice to know if the personnel people Aldridge were talking to were guys with lotto picks. A team like the Spurs might be completely honest about the prospects of Bennett or Noel because he knows he can't acquire them. But you can be damn sure that Orlando's GM is going to lie as much as possible to downgrade Noel's value.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI 

Post#60 » by Dark Faze » Fri May 31, 2013 2:51 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote:
That's really funny. I've been hearing the same "high ceiling, low floor" argument for the past week, and it's left me befuddled. Why exactly is Bennett's floor low? Why is he boom or bust? It's hard to imagine his offense failing at the next level, hell it's damn near impossible to imagine that. The defense I can cede, but "bust,"? Almost impossible for me to imagine. People just seem to think, "High Ceiling" and "Boom", must also thusly include, "low floor," "Bust," and "high risk".


huh

Guys have showcased far more prolific offensive abilities in college than Bennett without it translating in the pros.

And Bennetts skillset isn't even that versatile. He's either shooting a set jumpshot, a face up to take a guy off the dribble or shoot, or he's driving in the lane. Just a traditional face up PF skillset. It's not like he's Kelly Olynyk. He doesn't have a skilled post game.

It's not hard at all to see Bennett not being effective if his defense doesn't improve and his shooting percentages go down in the NBA. He'd be a backup at best just like every other tweener.

I wouldn't take Bennett because of so many unknowns, but I don't agree with that critique. When his shoulder is right, there's no question he can score inside. You either got it or you don't when it comes to inside scoring - skills be damned. People used to whine about Shaq and Howard not having post-up skills. So What? When they get the ball near the hoop, they score. Obviously, Bennett is not Shaq or Howard (and this is why it'd be helpful to know what his standing reach is), but just as obviously he can score in a vaiety of ways. Kelly Olynyk can have all the post moves in the world, but if Bennett's standing reach is better, I'd rather have Bennett shooting close to the basket than KO.


He can score inside because 6'7 guys with his physique are basically the Prime Shaqs of college basketball. Guys just aren't filled out physically enough to contest with his kind strength and speed at that size.

In the NBA though you're not going to just muscle through guys, miss a shot and get your own board for the putback like Bennett routinely does. Guys are just too long, have filled out, team defenses are better.

You have to beat guys will skill in the NBA to score in the post. The best bangers--guys like Okafor , Jefferson, and Carl Landry have incredible lower body strength but it wouldn't be enough without the touch they have on hook shots and post moves.

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