WP: Nene out 6 weeks

[rockymac52]

There's a part of me that just wants this to be a reality so this front office can realize the true depth of its failures

No argument except to quibble and say we need THE OWNER, not mgmt, to realize
the depths of the ineptitude.

Arizas agent will ask for far above market value just to keep the team sub .500 knowing we have zero wiggle room because we spent zero energy in developing Porter, meanwhile Web looks like he's close to breaking down at any moment.

I think he'll take the best offer and we shouldn't have to automatically assume that
we'll have to overpay in order to be the best offer. OP, as uncertain at this point as he is,
is insurance against over-paying. That combined with the new CBA and the penalties/taxes
that other teams might have to take on in order to make him an offer.

Agents aren't dumb. They look at the win now moves Ernie and Ted have made for this year, how they've completely pushed aside their young #3 overall pick in favor of playing tried and true vets in order to make the playoffs...there's absolutely no reason why they won't try to ring every last dollar out of Teds pocket come free agency.

Now that doesn't mean they'll get what they want but they'll set the number high and Ernie has shown a track record of giving in extremely easily.

I mean we're talking about a guy who extended an injury prone Martell Webster for above market value after only one year of work despite drafting a concencus "ready to contribute now" player in Porter already while having Ariza on the roster.

Shouldn't we be applauding Grunfeld for knowing that Porter wasn't nearly as ready to contribute as the media pundits were suggesting, and making sure to re-sign a key wing contributor as well as keeping our other wing in Ariza? Most of you guys would have been happy to see us let Webster go for nothing in free agency and/or trade away Ariza this past summer. If we had done either of those things, we'd be forced to play Porter a lot more, and while it sounds nice to get him more experience and development, it isn't necessarily how it would actually play out. What if he's just not ready and getting thrown to the wolves as a rookie wasn't the best way to handle his development?

Sometimes I feel like Wizards fans have turned on Grunfeld so much that they refuse to recognize all of the good moves he makes.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Given Nenê's very average play this season, AND the soft schedule the rest of the way, the Wizards could play .500-ish ball the rest of the season. They should still make the playoffs.

There is one way this could end up being good for the team: If they give Ariza some minutes at S4.

You "arranged" this injury, didn't you - not suspecting that Wittman would foil your plans by using Al Harrington for 30 minutes a game going (power) forward.

If Randy goes with Harrington it will completely demonstrate his veteran bias. It doesn't matter if young players could be used and whether they might play more effectively.

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[Sluggerface]

There's a part of me that just wants this to be a reality so this front office can realize the true depth of its failures

Arizas agent will ask for far above market value just to keep the team sub .500 knowing we have zero wiggle room because we spent zero energy in developing Porter, meanwhile Web looks like he's close to breaking down at any moment.

And Gortats agent will be licking his lips too.

And then to actually field a team that can make the playoffs we'll have to go over the cap and pay the tax just to overpay a slightly above average PF in the off-season.

We can always just let both walk and throw Monroe the max, and still be under the tax.

except that Detroit has already said they'd match lol

What? There's no way. I know Joe Dumars is bad, but he can't be that bad. No team is going to take on Josh Smith to free up cap space for them. Detroit is going to be f'ed

[jivelikenice]

I wouldn't defend Ernie's good moves. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but this latest offseason, primarily missing on Maynor & the lack of roster balance have me to the point of no return (although I think he's back).

But I disagree on your Otto point. Its a position where we're 3 deep, he was injured for all of TC & a big chunk of the season, and I doubt they expected Ariza to have a career season. Its not that he isn't ready to contribute necessarily, he just won't have the opportunity unless he plays consistent minutes.

[Illmatic21]

No argument except to quibble and say we need THE OWNER, not mgmt, to realize
the depths of the ineptitude.



I think he'll take the best offer and we shouldn't have to automatically assume that
we'll have to overpay in order to be the best offer. OP, as uncertain at this point as he is,
is insurance against over-paying. That combined with the new CBA and the penalties/taxes
that other teams might have to take on in order to make him an offer.

Agents aren't dumb. They look at the win now moves Ernie and Ted have made for this year, how they've completely pushed aside their young #3 overall pick in favor of playing tried and true vets in order to make the playoffs...there's absolutely no reason why they won't try to ring every last dollar out of Teds pocket come free agency.

Now that doesn't mean they'll get what they want but they'll set the number high and Ernie has shown a track record of giving in extremely easily.

I mean we're talking about a guy who extended an injury prone Martell Webster for above market value after only one year of work despite drafting a concencus "ready to contribute now" player in Porter already while having Ariza on the roster.

Shouldn't we be applauding Grunfeld for knowing that Porter wasn't nearly as ready to contribute as the media pundits were suggesting, and making sure to re-sign a key wing contributor as well as keeping our other wing in Ariza? Most of you guys would have been happy to see us let Webster go for nothing in free agency and/or trade away Ariza this past summer. If we had done either of those things, we'd be forced to play Porter a lot more, and while it sounds nice to get him more experience and development, it isn't necessarily how it would actually play out. What if he's just not ready and getting thrown to the wolves as a rookie wasn't the best way to handle his development?

Sometimes I feel like Wizards fans have turned on Grunfeld so much that they refuse to recognize all of the good moves he makes.

No. If he's going to draft a project player, why Porter? Why not draft in a position of much greater need, with much greater potential reward? I would feel a lot better knowing we had Noel or Len at the end of our bench, than Otto Porter.

[Sluggerface]

Wow nevermind. I see where Detroit is going with that. God restricted free agency is so stupid.

[rockymac52]

We can always just let both walk and throw Monroe the max, and still be under the tax.

except that Detroit has already said they'd match lol

What? There's no way. I know Joe Dumars is bad, but he can't be that bad. No team is going to take on Josh Smith to free up cap space for them. Detroit is going to be f'ed

Detroit really only runs into cap space problems following a max deal to Monroe a couple years from now when it's time to extend Drummond. At that point they'd be spending around $45 million on 3 front court players, which is less than ideal to put it nicely. But they've got time to figure that out. This coming season and the one after it won't really matter (although Dumars might fear for his job security and make a rash move). But let's say they need to clear cap space after extending Monroe by trading away Josh Smith, as you suggested.

Next summer: Nene for Smith. Smith is paid an extra half million a year and has one extra year on his deal. This trade gets them out of cap troubles before it's too late. It might prevent us from going after KD, but by then we might already know that it's just not gonna happen anyways, so this might be our best course of action.

My main point is that while Smith leaves a lot to be desired and is a very frustrating player to watch, he still has a lot of good skills and can help teams win. There will absolutely be a trade market for him. Not necessarily one where good assets are given up in exchange for him, but definitely enough interest to move him if needed.

[dobrojim]

we're back to the age old debate - draft for need vs draft BPA.

most folks say draft BPA, unless you have 2 comparable talents
where one plays a position of need and the other does not.

We and several other teams had sufficient questions about Noel.
Time will tell who was right. We don't know now. OP's injury was,
in contrast to Nene's, not particularly foreseeable.

[rockymac52]

Agents aren't dumb. They look at the win now moves Ernie and Ted have made for this year, how they've completely pushed aside their young #3 overall pick in favor of playing tried and true vets in order to make the playoffs...there's absolutely no reason why they won't try to ring every last dollar out of Teds pocket come free agency.

Now that doesn't mean they'll get what they want but they'll set the number high and Ernie has shown a track record of giving in extremely easily.

I mean we're talking about a guy who extended an injury prone Martell Webster for above market value after only one year of work despite drafting a concencus "ready to contribute now" player in Porter already while having Ariza on the roster.

Shouldn't we be applauding Grunfeld for knowing that Porter wasn't nearly as ready to contribute as the media pundits were suggesting, and making sure to re-sign a key wing contributor as well as keeping our other wing in Ariza? Most of you guys would have been happy to see us let Webster go for nothing in free agency and/or trade away Ariza this past summer. If we had done either of those things, we'd be forced to play Porter a lot more, and while it sounds nice to get him more experience and development, it isn't necessarily how it would actually play out. What if he's just not ready and getting thrown to the wolves as a rookie wasn't the best way to handle his development?

Sometimes I feel like Wizards fans have turned on Grunfeld so much that they refuse to recognize all of the good moves he makes.

No. If he's going to draft a project player, why Porter? Why not draft in a position of much greater need, with much greater potential reward? I would feel a lot better knowing we had Noel or Len at the end of our bench, than Otto Porter.

All things equal, I would've preferred a PF/C over a SF, but there's the problem - all things are not equal. We liked Porter as a player more than we liked Len and Noel, among others. Whether that assessment was correct won't be known for several years. But it's not like we have our SF of the future on the roster for sure. We knew Wall and Beal were our guys at PG and SG, and we knew we likely had Webster and very possibly Ariza as well, and yeah, we're weak down low and Nene and Gortat are aging, so it's clearly a big need, but if the right player isn't there, then he isn't there. And judging this draft so far, there doesn't appear to be a player we really missed out on by taking Porter instead.

[DCZards]

In addition to not wanting to throw a raw, slight rookie like Porter to the wolves, I think the other thought behind signing Martell, even though Ariza was still under contract, was that Webster is primarily a backup for Beal at SG--rather than a SF.

Otto got set back by the injury before training camp. On top of that Ariza has played great for the most part, but you could kinda see that coming with the way Trevor A. finished out last season playing next to Wall once JW was healthy.

[JWizmentality]

Praise Ernie for his good moves?? Yes he's good at cleaning up after himself. Just means he **** himself too often

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[Dark Faze]

lol

I think Noel was the pick, but that doesn't even matter, it's the way this team has been handled from an FO and coaching perspective on down.

Knowing we have an overabundance of talent at SF and yet we don't even try to see if Ariza can play some 4 in a lineup of Wall, Beal, Web, Ariza, Gortat in order to create more minutes for Porter off the bench + depth for Nene.

We shorten the rotation and for sure cause an injury for Beal by overplaying him despite him JUST coming off a stress injury last summer. And the writing was on the wall that Nene was going to run into problems as soon as he started playing over 30 on the regular.

There isn't any aspect of this team that has the long term in mind--from the rotation, to giving up valuable picks just to make the playoffs, to letting your #3 overall die on the bench in favor of a guy clearly playing above his head because its a contract year--it's just stupid on so many levels. I would absolutely LOVE for us to miss the playoffs and still lose our pick so Ernie gets the boot.

And as far as Detroit--they have so many expirings this year that they'll just match Monroe now and figure out what to do later.

And then to see Hawes get moved for nothing...ugh

And literally every high pick gets "thrown to the wolves" btw. There isn't anything Porter has done this year that wasn't worse than Beal shooting god awful numbers his first two months of the season playing high minutes.

[Nivek]

The problem with the offseason moves related to SF was not picking Porter. That was an acceptable move -- he was a productive college player who projected to be a good NBA player. The problem was the combination of moves they made: drafting Porter, drafting Rice, re-signing Webster for the full MLE, and not trading anyone to address their front-court depth.

[Dat2U]

except that Detroit has already said they'd match lol

What? There's no way. I know Joe Dumars is bad, but he can't be that bad. No team is going to take on Josh Smith to free up cap space for them. Detroit is going to be f'ed

Detroit really only runs into cap space problems following a max deal to Monroe a couple years from now when it's time to extend Drummond. At that point they'd be spending around $45 million on 3 front court players, which is less than ideal to put it nicely. But they've got time to figure that out. This coming season and the one after it won't really matter (although Dumars might fear for his job security and make a rash move). But let's say they need to clear cap space after extending Monroe by trading away Josh Smith, as you suggested.

Next summer: Nene for Smith. Smith is paid an extra half million a year and has one extra year on his deal. This trade gets them out of cap troubles before it's too late. It might prevent us from going after KD, but by then we might already know that it's just not gonna happen anyways, so this might be our best course of action.

My main point is that while Smith leaves a lot to be desired and is a very frustrating player to watch, he still has a lot of good skills and can help teams win. There will absolutely be a trade market for him. Not necessarily one where good assets are given up in exchange for him, but definitely enough interest to move him if needed.

Josh Smith is the worst contract in basketball. I seriously doubt there's much of a trade market for his services. Offensively he does a lot to help his team lose games and he does this very consistently. I'd rather hope Nene retires than eliminating any chance of future flexibility by trading for Josh Smith.

[DCZards]

And literally every high pick gets "thrown to the wolves" btw. There isn't anything Porter has done this year that wasn't worse than Beal shooting god awful numbers his first two months of the season playing high minutes.

Most of the high picks are on teams not expecting to make the playoffs. (That was not the case with this year's Zards team.) So, yeah, teams like Orlando, Charlotte, Sacramento, etc. can afford to live--or die--with their inexperienced top picks/rookies.

[jivelikenice]

In addition to not wanting to throw a raw, slight rookie like Porter to the wolves, I think the other thought behind signing Martell, even though Ariza was still under contract, was that Webster is primarily a backup for Beal at SG--rather than a SF.

Otto got set back by the injury before training camp. On top of that Ariza has played great for the most part, but you could kinda see that coming with the way Trevor A. finished out last season playing next to Wall once JW was healthy.

Martell is not a good backup 2 and offers no ball handling. Once we decided on Otto, either Ariza should have been traded or the MLE should have been spent on another position (backup 4/5 or a combo guard)

[jivelikenice]

And literally every high pick gets "thrown to the wolves" btw. There isn't anything Porter has done this year that wasn't worse than Beal shooting god awful numbers his first two months of the season playing high minutes.

Most of the high picks are on teams not expecting to make the playoffs. (That was not the case with this year's Zards team.) So, yeah, teams like Orlando, Charlotte, Sacramento, etc. can afford to live--or die--with their inexperienced top picks/rookies.

Plus Randy is coaching for his job. This is likely the last HC job he'll have. Do ppl really think he's going to throw anyone to the wolves just for the hell of it? And back to a recurring point which is always ignored by Otto bashers - He plays the only position on the roster where we have depth.

[rockymac52]

In addition to not wanting to throw a raw, slight rookie like Porter to the wolves, I think the other thought behind signing Martell, even though Ariza was still under contract, was that Webster is primarily a backup for Beal at SG--rather than a SF.

Otto got set back by the injury before training camp. On top of that Ariza has played great for the most part, but you could kinda see that coming with the way Trevor A. finished out last season playing next to Wall once JW was healthy.

Martell is not a good backup 2 and offers no ball handling. Once we decided on Otto, either Ariza should have been traded or the MLE should have been spent on another position (backup 4/5 or a combo guard)

How do you figure Webster isn't a good backup SG? Hell, I'd go so far to say that Webster is one of the best, if not THE best, backup SG in the league.

See: http://www.82games.com/1314/13WAS6.HTM (for his stats at SG vs SF)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And literally every high pick gets "thrown to the wolves" btw. There isn't anything Porter has done this year that wasn't worse than Beal shooting god awful numbers his first two months of the season playing high minutes.

Most of the high picks are on teams not expecting to make the playoffs. (That was not the case with this year's Zards team.) So, yeah, teams like Orlando, Charlotte, Sacramento, etc. can afford to live--or die--with their inexperienced top picks/rookies.

Charlotte has won 4 or is it 6 games in a row? They are 27-30, in 7th place in the Eastern Conference, only 1 and 1/2 games behind the Wizards.

Walker, Henderson, Kidd-Gilchrist, McRoberts, Jefferson start.

They picked up Neal and Ridnour. Cody Zeller is coming along.

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[tontoz]

The problem with the offseason moves related to SF was not picking Porter. That was an acceptable move -- he was a productive college player who projected to be a good NBA player. The problem was the combination of moves they made: drafting Porter, drafting Rice, re-signing Webster for the full MLE, and not trading anyone to address their front-court depth.

They signed Harrington so no trading was necessary.