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Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#41 » by LyricalRico » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:45 pm

Rafael122 wrote:The only teams that improved were Miami and OKC. I have no idea what Milwaukee did, it was a move to make a move. If they couldn't pay Knight, at least punt that decision for a year. Either match the offer sheet or sign him for the 1 year tender. MCW can't shoot, IMO that makes them easier to defend than with Knight. And it's not like MCW will get rid of that loser mentality overnight. IDK.

OKC basically got an entire bench. They did great, but all of those guys are free agents this year so this is basically a win now move.

Phoenix, I guess? But they are a lottery team again.

The Celtics are a game and a half back from the 8th spot. Ainge might have accidentally made this a playoff team. You don't do this if you have the potential to get Okafor in the draft.

Miami did well w/Dragic but he won't be worth the money, and they are literally 6 deep. Wade is always a question mark health wise, so I'm suppose to be afraid of them rolling out Chalmers and Dragic as the starting backcourt?

Honestly, I talked myself out of what I initially said. Seems like OKC was the only one who improved and gave up the least.


:nod:

Great point about Boston. It seems that I'm more bullish on Miami than you are, although I agree that overpaying to keep Dragic will be a bad longterm move. But it does make them better. I pretty much agree with everything else.

Folks just need to calm down. Lot of overrating of other team's moves going on right now IMO.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#42 » by nate33 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:51 pm

Rafael122 wrote:The only teams that improved were Miami and OKC. I have no idea what Milwaukee did, it was a move to make a move. If they couldn't pay Knight, at least punt that decision for a year. Either match the offer sheet or sign him for the 1 year tender. MCW can't shoot, IMO that makes them easier to defend than with Knight. And it's not like MCW will get rid of that loser mentality overnight. IDK.

OKC basically got an entire bench. They did great, but all of those guys are free agents this year so this is basically a win now move.

Phoenix, I guess? But they are a lottery team again.

The Celtics are a game and a half back from the 8th spot. Ainge might have accidentally made this a playoff team. You don't do this if you have the potential to get Okafor in the draft.

Miami did well w/Dragic but he won't be worth the money, and they are literally 6 deep. Wade is always a question mark health wise, so I'm suppose to be afraid of them rolling out Chalmers and Dragic as the starting backcourt?

Honestly, I talked myself out of what I initially said. Seems like OKC was the only one who improved and gave up the least.

Good breakdown. A few teams gave themselves a midseason injection, but those soon-to-be UFA's are going to cost a fortune next year.

Funny, one of the thoughts that's going through my head right now is that I'm regretting not keeping Ariza on the same contract that Houston gave. When guys like Reggie Jackson and Enes Kanter are talking about contracts in the $15M range, I'd much rather have a guy like Ariza locked into a long term descending deal at roughly $8M a year. Those mid-priced starters have good trade value too. Look what Afflalo got Denver.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#43 » by Dat2U » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:55 pm

Milwaukee gets a bounty for a guy they had no intention of signing long term and folks don't like it??? I don't get it... any marginal step they take back over the next week or two will be offset by having a legit C in Plumlee along with two talented options to replace Knight. Give Kidd a few weeks.... like I said, he worked miracles to get Knight to the point where he could produce offensively but not detract from his teammates impact. I suspect he could do even more with MCW (talented but in a horrible situation) and Ennis (who has legit PG skills).
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#44 » by miller31time » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:55 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Folks just need to calm down. Lot of overrating of other team's moves going on right now IMO.


No one is overrating. Miami just got a lot better and likely passed us (not this season in the standings but as a team). That much should be fairly undeniable. And that's all that really matters. They didn't acquire Dragic to keep him for a year and will certainly pay him. And he's worth it. He's a 12mil per year player.

We needed to do one thing - improve our backup point guard position. And we didn't. The only way we might get better there is if Sessions ignores everything he's done over the past season+ and plays like the incredibly mediocre player he used to be.

This is happening while Isaiah Thomas gets picked up by the Celtics for peanuts.

So we essentially dropped a spot (maybe more if Milwaukee kicks it up a notch) by our inactivity.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#45 » by nuposse04 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:57 pm

Miami is going to have pay Dragic big money in the offseason, and one year after, Whiteside should demand something north of 13-14 mil if he plays consistently. I wonder where Wade fits into all of that? I still don't buy them as a contender at all, but they are a solid team now, they were below treadmill before.

OKC needs to win with what they got, NOW. DJ is good, as is singler. Kanter will cost money.

Don't really like it for DET. Shoulda given them Martell for floor spacing. :/
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#46 » by LyricalRico » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:01 pm

miller31time wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Folks just need to calm down. Lot of overrating of other team's moves going on right now IMO.


No one is overrating. Miami just got a lot better and likely passed us (not this season in the standings but as a team). That much should be fairly undeniable. And that's all that really matters. They didn't acquire Dragic to keep him for a year and will certainly pay him. And he's worth it. He's a 12mil per year player.

We needed to do one thing - improve our backup point guard position. And we didn't. The only way we might get better there is if Sessions ignores everything he's done over the past season+ and plays like the incredibly mediocre player he used to be.

His is happening while Isaiah Thomas gets picked up by the Celtics for peanuts.

So we essentially dropped a spot (maybe more if Milwaukee kicks it up a notch) by our inactivity.


I agree with you that Miami got better, but given the current standings that probably doesn't affect our "spot" until next year. (And Dragic might be a $12M per year player who gets $15M+ per year, we'll see.) But other than that, I'm not convinced that the other teams in the East have passed us. Let's see how it plays out.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#47 » by nuposse04 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:01 pm

miller31time wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Folks just need to calm down. Lot of overrating of other team's moves going on right now IMO.


No one is overrating. Miami just got a lot better and likely passed us (not this season in the standings but as a team). That much should be fairly undeniable. And that's all that really matters. They didn't acquire Dragic to keep him for a year and will certainly pay him. And he's worth it. He's a 12mil per year player.

We needed to do one thing - improve our backup point guard position. And we didn't. The only way we might get better there is if Sessions ignores everything he's done over the past season+ and plays like the incredibly mediocre player he used to be.

This is happening while Isaiah Thomas gets picked up by the Celtics for peanuts.

So we essentially dropped a spot (maybe more if Milwaukee kicks it up a notch) by our inactivity.


I think Pace does a lot for Plumlee in PHX, we shall see if MIL can get the same looks. MCW is an awful floor spacer so they should be easier to defend now.

As for MIA getting better, I think it really is contingent on whiteside. Dragic is a really good player, but if Hassan keeps it up, then they can be a solid team. They have no depth though, and if touches were an issue for Dragic in PHX, it'll be interesting to see how Wade, Bosh and Deng befit Dragic. They can make a run for the 5th spot though, although I'm not convinced they can do it unless Wade gets fully healthy.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#48 » by Rafael122 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:02 pm

Dat2U wrote:Milwaukee gets a bounty for a guy they had no intention of signing long term and folks don't like it??? I don't get it... any marginal step they take back over the next week or two will be offset by having a legit C in Plumlee along with two talented options to replace Knight. Give Kidd a few weeks.... like I said, he worked miracles to get Knight to the point where he could produce offensively but not detract from his teammates impact. I suspect he could do even more with MCW (talented but in a horrible situation) and Ennis (who has legit PG skills).


MCW's situation doesn't change the fact that he can't shoot. If Kidd can get him to shoot at a respectable number, I'll eat crow. But where's the outside shooting going to come from?
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#49 » by nate33 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:06 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Miami is going to have pay Dragic big money in the offseason, and one year after, Whiteside should demand something north of 13-14 mil if he plays consistently. I wonder where Wade fits into all of that? I still don't buy them as a contender at all, but they are a solid team now, they were below treadmill before.

OKC needs to win with what they got, NOW. DJ is good, as is singler. Kanter will cost money.

Don't really like it for DET. Shoulda given them Martell for floor spacing. :/

I kinda like how things worked out for Miami. Dragic makes good sense for them in the short term and long term. In the short term, they set themselves up for one last hurrah with a high quality (albeit overpaid and old) starting 5. In 2016, they clear the deck and reload around Dragic and Whiteside.

It's amazing how things work out when a star caliber young defensive big just falls into your lap.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#50 » by nuposse04 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:12 pm

nate33 wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:Miami is going to have pay Dragic big money in the offseason, and one year after, Whiteside should demand something north of 13-14 mil if he plays consistently. I wonder where Wade fits into all of that? I still don't buy them as a contender at all, but they are a solid team now, they were below treadmill before.

OKC needs to win with what they got, NOW. DJ is good, as is singler. Kanter will cost money.

Don't really like it for DET. Shoulda given them Martell for floor spacing. :/

I kinda like how things worked out for Miami. Dragic makes good sense for them in the short term and long term. In the short term, they set themselves up for one last hurrah with a high quality (albeit overpaid and old) starting 5. In 2016, they clear the deck and reload around Dragic and Whiteside.

It's amazing how things work out when a star caliber young defensive big just falls into your lap.


I like Whiteside, I think he'll be an above average starting center center in the NBA because of his defensive abilities alone, but he'll be 26 in June. He is probably as offensively polished as he will ever be. What is good for MIA, is the Bosh/Hasan duo fits perfectly, Whiteside can just tap in the missed Bosh Jumpers and Wade bricks.

A potential Mia/Cle first round would actually be awesome.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#51 » by LyricalRico » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:36 pm

Wow, KG getting an extension?

Jerry Zgoda: Some intel gathered: Wolves & KG are not considering this a 29-game thing. Both sides fully intend he'll play at least next season too Twitter @JerryZgoda - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.68vY2gef.dpuf


Jon Krawczynski: AP Source: The Timberwolves are not bringing KG back for just this year. They want to do a 2-year extension with him. Twitter @APkrawczynski - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.68vY2gef.dpuf


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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#52 » by dckingsfan » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:39 pm

Goran Dragic officially makes Miami dangerous.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#53 » by dckingsfan » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:44 pm

Milwaukee now has 5 PGs - does this make them better?

Michael Carter-Williams
Jerryd Bayless
Jorge Gutierrez
Tyler Ennis
Kendall Marshall (injured)
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#54 » by dckingsfan » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:45 pm

I guess Detroit is making a push for the playoffs with Reggie Jackson?
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#55 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:02 am

dckingsfan wrote:Milwaukee now has 5 PGs - does this make them better?

Michael Carter-Williams
Jerryd Bayless
Jorge Gutierrez
Tyler Ennis
Kendall Marshall (injured)

They let Guitierrez go - his 2nd 10 day contract expired.

Somebody in their organization must have a tie with Syracuse - getting MCW and Ennis in the same day. I think both have been a bit overrated, but I still like the trade because - as Dat said - they just traded a guy who they'd likely be better off not re-signing this offseason. And who better to teach young PGs than Jason Kidd? Knight's +/- with the Bucks was shockingly bad considering he was the starting PG. They did a lot better with Bayless - who's just an average backup PG.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#56 » by nuposse04 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:03 am

dckingsfan wrote:I guess Detroit is making a push for the playoffs with Reggie Jackson?


They lost some quality play in Augustine and Jonas. I really don't know if they'll have enough, I guess BRK did get a better player today in Thad. young over KG. Paul George's eventual return should make things interesting in INDY.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#57 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:03 am

dckingsfan wrote:I guess Detroit is making a push for the playoffs with Reggie Jackson?

Yeah, NBA East is Conference Bizarro.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#58 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:26 am

Rafael122 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Milwaukee gets a bounty for a guy they had no intention of signing long term and folks don't like it??? I don't get it... any marginal step they take back over the next week or two will be offset by having a legit C in Plumlee along with two talented options to replace Knight. Give Kidd a few weeks.... like I said, he worked miracles to get Knight to the point where he could produce offensively but not detract from his teammates impact. I suspect he could do even more with MCW (talented but in a horrible situation) and Ennis (who has legit PG skills).


MCW's situation doesn't change the fact that he can't shoot. If Kidd can get him to shoot at a respectable number, I'll eat crow. But where's the outside shooting going to come from?


Kidd couldn't shoot when he came into the NBA. MCW is just 23.

I have a feeling the Bucks are on their way to building a dynasty. MCW is a stifling defender and he's even this season #5 in NBA assist percentage, despite playing for a very young team. His assists with Milwaukee are likely to go up because that team will score in transition. They have some underrated players in Middleton and Dudley who can score efficiently. Antetokounmpo is a future superstar. Jabari Parker is a future all star. MCW just needs to be a Gary Payton or Jason Kidd distributor and pesky defender.

Expect his offensive efficiency to improve now that he doesn't need to be a good shooter.

This move is a huge chemistry changer, but MCW was Rookie of the Year. People forget this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Carter-Williams

On October 30, 2013, in his NBA debut, he recorded 22 points, 12 assists, 7 rebounds, and 9 steals (the most steals ever made by a rookie on debut) in a 114-110 win over the Miami Heat.[14] Less than a week later, he had a 26 point, 10 assist performance in a 107-104 win over the Chicago Bulls. He was subsequently named the Player of the Week his first week in the NBA, a feat last achieved by Shaquille O'Neal in 1992.[15] On November 9, 2013, Carter-Williams recorded a career-high 13 assists to go with 21 points in a 127-125 double overtime loss to Cleveland.[16]

On December 3, 2013, he recorded his first triple-double with 27 points, 12 rebounds, and 10 assists


Carter-Williams finished his rookie season with averages of 16.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, and 6.3 apg. He is one of only 3 players in NBA history to average 16 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists in a rookie season, the other players being Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson.[25] On May 5, 2014, he was named the 2014 NBA Rookie of the Year,[26] becoming the first rookie drafted 10th or later to win the award since Mark Jackson in 1987.


I think the Bucks won't regret the deal, despite their 30-23 mark this year and the huge chemistry change.

EDITED TO ADD: I recall thinking his first week "MCW is already better than John Wall." That's not true and I was wrong, but if you look at the paragraphs above and read the names Shaquille O'Neal, Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson .... and Michael Carter Williams; you can make a pretty strong argument that Philly is going to really regret this move and Milwaukee got a steal.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#59 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:43 am

Right - Kidd may see himself in MCW. Milwaukee's seeing there's a night a day difference between Larry Drew, Sr coaching vs Jason Kidd coaching. Credibility is an amazing thing. If I'm a young PG, I bow down to Kidd and listen to everything he says.

And MCW comes with 2 things that he's great at for a guard - rebounding and stealing the ball. If he just becomes a 35% 3 point shooter and cuts down on the turnovers (which should be an automatic moving from Philly to Milwaukee), he becomes a valuable asset. And they get to wait 2 more years to decide on whether or not to give him a big contract.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5 

Post#60 » by nate33 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:20 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:MCW's situation doesn't change the fact that he can't shoot. If Kidd can get him to shoot at a respectable number, I'll eat crow. But where's the outside shooting going to come from?


Kidd couldn't shoot when he came into the NBA. MCW is just 23.

Anything is possible, but history really isn't on MCW's side. There are very few instances of PG's with atrocious 3P% at age 23 who ultimately pan out to be solid 3-point shooters. Here's a screen of guys since 1990, age 22-25, who averaged at least 6 assists, totaled at least 50 3PA's a season, and shot below .275. Of the 10 names on the list, only Mark Jackson and Mookie Blaylock became acceptable 3-point shooters.

Interestingly, if you go back a few years further, you will find a bunch of guys who couldn't hit 3's early in their career but figured it out later. My guess is that that's because the 3-point shot wasn't emphasized in high school or college. Guys never bothered to work on the shot until it became necessary in the 90's. These days, hardly any guards even enter the league who can't hit at least a passable 30% from 3-point range. If you can't shoot it despite years of practice at it, it's a good bet that you'll never figure it out.

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