The Amazingly Sucky Bradley Beal

DCZards · Post #41 » by **DCZards** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:30 pm

I hate the name of this thread because Beal is my favorite Wizard by far. But here’s my short list of what I believe is wrong with Double B.

1. Randy’s offense. Where is the plan to run Beal off screens and picks so that he gets more open shots?

2. Beal’s sulking. He gets down on himself too often and too easily. You can see it in his body language and facial expressions. Beal no longer has the swagger he had when he entered the league. Needs to get that back. Even when things are going bad you MUST "keep your head to the sky.” (Credit to EW&F)

3. A lack of confidence in his 3 pt shoot. This one surprises me the most since he shoots 40% + from 3 pt. range. But Beal will often pass up an open 3 to either take a few steps in for a long jumper or pass it to a teammate. This is something that I definitely think will improve with age/maturity.

4. His handles. I don’t have to tell anyone here that Beal is a mediocre ball handler. I thought his ball handling would have already improved immensely given that I’m sure he works on it, particularly during the offseason. He typically dribbles TOO high. I would love to see him learn to dribble closer to the floor…a la James Harden. But that might be easier said than done.

5. He doesn’t attack the basket often enough. This is an area where I’ve actually seen improvement. Unfortunately, when he misses at the rim he also doesn’t draw a foul.

6. Pierce’s presence. I love having PP on the Zards and I believe it will pay dividends come playoff time. But both Wall and Pierce (unlike Ariza) are ball dominant players and that both slows down the Zards down and makes Beal much more of a nonfactor in the half court offense.

On the bright side, Beal is one of the better passing shooting guards in the league and he doesn’t mind going into the paint and fighting for rebounds. And he’s a real hard worker on D…probably a better defender than he’s given credit for.

BEST NEWS: He’s only 21 years old and will definitely get a lot better. I’m not sure what Beal's worth salary-wise, but it would be a big mistake to give up on him.

jivelikenice · Post #42 » by **jivelikenice** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:48 pm

I disagree with 5. Pierce wasn't here last year and Ariza wasn't ball dominant and Beal still struggled during the regular season. What Beal has to do IMO is focus on what should be his strengths (shooting) versus trying to be something he's not.

"I don't like to limit myself to just being a shooter like Ray Allen," Beal said. "I like to do everything and contribute to a win."
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... ws_co.html

He's re-iterated that theme several times since being drafted here.

Induveca · Post #43 » by **Induveca** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:49 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Induveca wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
You realize Foye was 26 when he came to DC right? That's 5 years older than Beal. Foye came into the league at 23!!! Two years older than Beal RIGHT NOW! Can we get some better perspective here?

3 years pro experience is 3 years pro experience. It's a valid comparison......Beal is a below average SG after 3 seasons of NBA basketball.

Do we lock up the next Randy Foye/Calbert Cheaney at 10-12 million a year if he doesn't improve next year? I would hope the answer is no....

I'd prefer to trade him along with Porter/Gortat/protected 1st for Cousins/filler while his value still has him pegged as a possible Wade type player. I see the same player who was at Florida, a talented 3 point shooter but nothing else.

Sorry but that's just poor analysis with a bit of strawman added to top it off. I've never made any comparisions to Wade nor do I see a worthy comparison there but the kid still has a good deal of talent and skill. And someone being 26 after 3 years of development is a massive difference from someone being 21 after 3 years of development and if you can't understand that there's some basic fundamental logic about age & development of basketball players that's lacking on your end.

It's not though. Of the past 5 SGs taken top 5 in the draft (who have played three seasons) all of them have remained essentially the same player they were at the end of year 3. Harden was an odd exception, but he was dominant as a 6th man for OKC. And I think we all agree Beal is not going the Harden route with his handles and inability to get to the rim.

Turner
Mayo
Harden
Roy
Gordon

Here are more top 5 pick SGs going back to 1991. Every single one of these guys remained essentially the same player they were in year 3 of their career. A slight trajectory upwards in their prime but nothing extreme.

Wade
Richardson
Mike Miller
Francis
Carter
Iverson
Allen
Stackhouse
Rider
Jim Jackson
Steve Smith

fishercob · Post #44 » by **fishercob** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:50 pm

Induveca wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Induveca wrote:
3 years pro experience is 3 years pro experience. It's a valid comparison......Beal is a below average SG after 3 seasons of NBA basketball.

Do we lock up the next Randy Foye/Calbert Cheaney at 10-12 million a year if he doesn't improve next year? I would hope the answer is no....

I'd prefer to trade him along with Porter/Gortat/protected 1st for Cousins/filler while his value still has him pegged as a possible Wade type player. I see the same player who was at Florida, a talented 3 point shooter but nothing else.

Sorry but that's just poor analysis with a bit of strawman added to top it off. I've never made any comparisions to Wade nor do I see a worthy comparison there but the kid still has a good deal of talent and skill. And someone being 26 after 3 years of development is a massive difference from someone being 21 after 3 years of development and if you can't understand that there's some basic fundamental logic about age & development of basketball players that's lacking on your end.

It's not though. Of the past 5 SGs taken top 5 in the draft (who have played three seasons) all of them have remained essentially the same player they were at the end of year 3. Harden was an odd exception, but he was dominant as a 6th man for OKC. And I think we all agree Beal is not going the Harden route with his handles and inability to get to the rim.

I'd reach back further, but it's a sufficient sample size I think. Not many SGs have gone top 5 over the past 15 years. Interesting in and of itself.

Turner
Mayo
Harden
Roy
Gordon

You're a smart guy, Indu. When is a sample size of five sufficient for anything?

Induveca · Post #45 » by **Induveca** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:00 pm

I added 11 more

DCZards · Post #46 » by **DCZards** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:12 pm

jivelikenice wrote:I disagree with 5. Pierce wasn't here last year and Ariza wasn't ball dominant and Beal still struggled during the regular season. What Beal has to do IMO is focus on what should be his strengths (shooting) versus trying to be something he's not.

"I don't like to limit myself to just being a shooter like Ray Allen," Beal said. "I like to do everything and contribute to a win."
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... ws_co.html

He's re-iterated that theme several times since being drafted here.

I think it's far too early and Beal is far too young to think about (or talk about) "limiting" his game in anyway. At 21, he still has the time and ability to improve considerably in those areas in which his game is currently weak...if he puts in the work.

fishercob · Post #47 » by **fishercob** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:19 pm

Induveca wrote:
fishercob wrote:
Induveca wrote:
It's not though. Of the past 5 SGs taken top 5 in the draft (who have played three seasons) all of them have remained essentially the same player they were at the end of year 3. Harden was an odd exception, but he was dominant as a 6th man for OKC. And I think we all agree Beal is not going the Harden route with his handles and inability to get to the rim.

I'd reach back further, but it's a sufficient sample size I think. Not many SGs have gone top 5 over the past 15 years. Interesting in and of itself.

Turner
Mayo
Harden
Roy
Gordon

You're a smart guy, Indu. When is a sample size of five sufficient for anything?

I added 11 more

I looked up Iverson, Wade, and Vince and you're 0 for 3. All three made significant jumps in productivity over their first three seasons. I'm not going to keep looking. We can just as easily use small samples to compare Beal to Klay and argue that Beal was better at comparable age/experience, and once Klay started playing for a good coach his production skyrocketed.

I am in no way against trading Beal for the right return. I just object to writing his eulogy given his age and situation.

MDStar · Post #48 » by **MDStar** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:22 pm

There was a play in yesterday's game that embodied the struggle that I have with Bradley's game at this point. Can't remember exactly when but I believe it was in the 3rd quarter. He came off of a pick down by the right block and curl up towards the elbow to receive the pass. He got the ball around the top of the key and dribbled slightly to his right to setup the pick. The pick was set well and he came off dribbling to his right with his defender trailing a step behind on his left hip. The center was out of position in the key and was slightly hedging to the weak side. Beal could have easily made it to the rim that either would've resulted in a foul, made layup or both. Instead however, Beal did a hop-step to his right that didn't create anymore separation than he already had and took a contested mid range jumper that clanked off the front of the rim. To me it's those plays that keeps him from being a legitimate 20 ppg scoring threat to ease some of the pressure off Wall.

He's still my 2nd favorite player on the team and doesn't deserve and Amazingly Sucky thread. At this point he's just an "ok" player. Not great but not sucky either.

Post #49 » by **nate33** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:27 pm

MDStar wrote:There was a play in yesterday's game that embodied the struggle that I have with Bradley's game at this point. Can't remember exactly when but I believe it was in the 3rd quarter. He came off of a pick down by the right block and curl up towards the elbow to receive the pass. He got the ball around the top of the key and dribbled slightly to his right to setup the pick. The pick was set well and he came off dribbling to his right with his defender trailing a step behind on his left hip. The center was out of position in the key and was slightly hedging to the weak side. Beal could have easily made it to the rim that either would've resulted in a foul, made layup or both. Instead however, Beal did a hop-step to his right that didn't create anymore separation than he already had and took a contested mid range jumper that clanked off the front of the rim. To me it's those plays that keeps him from being a legitimate 20 ppg scoring threat to ease some of the pressure off Wall.

He's still my 2nd favorite player on the team and doesn't deserve and Amazingly Sucky thread. At this point he's just an "ok" player. Not great but not sucky either.

I remember that exact play and I agree with all of your points. Beal looked like he had decided before he even made his move that he was going to take a midrange shot, but as the play developed, the smart move would have been to take it to the rim. I yelled at my TV when he pulled up and clanked the midrange shot.

And, yes, Beal is most definitely not "Amazing Sucky". This should be the "Disappointingly Mediocre Bradley Beal Thread". The kid is still a viable starter in this league. That's not a bad thing. It's just that he doesn't really look like he's on track to become much more than that.

Induveca · Post #50 » by **Induveca** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:32 pm

Here this makes it easier....

https://infogr.am/sgs_drafted_top_5_1990_2012

Interactive graph of all SGs going back to 1990 I made. Fun to play around with. Allows you to compare year 3 with year 5 for WS and VORP.

And Fish I'm not writing his eulogy. Just think we can expect more Mayo/Miller/Stackhouse/Gill from Beal based on the stats.

EDIT:
After adding year 5, Ray Allen is the only guy who took a *MAJOR* leap in terms of productivity from year 3 vs year 5. Wow. Could be argued Iverson did somewhat, but not compared to Allen. Everyone else remained relatively the same, or took major dips due to season long injuries.

Let's hope Beal turns out to be Ray Allen, but Allen was already around 60% more productive year 3 compared to Beal. Seems like George Karl did a damn fine job with him after "Chris Ford" was fired prior to Allen's 3rd season.

jivelikenice · Post #51 » by **jivelikenice** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:35 pm

DCZards wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:I disagree with 5. Pierce wasn't here last year and Ariza wasn't ball dominant and Beal still struggled during the regular season. What Beal has to do IMO is focus on what should be his strengths (shooting) versus trying to be something he's not.

"I don't like to limit myself to just being a shooter like Ray Allen," Beal said. "I like to do everything and contribute to a win."
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... ws_co.html

He's re-iterated that theme several times since being drafted here.

I think it's far too early and Beal is far too young to think about (or talk about) "limiting" his game in anyway. At 21, he still has the time and ability to improve considerably in those areas in which his game is currently weak...if he puts in the work.

In the interim though he needs to focus on mastering one aspect of his game. Once one aspect is mastered, move on to the next.

Donkey McDonkerton · Post #52 » by **Donkey McDonkerton** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:40 pm

It's time, it's time. He has earned this thread.....My oh my, watching him these last few games has been extremely painful. It looks like he is in slow motion, dribbling the ball off the foot, making a bad pass, missing easy bunny's...WTF is up with this dude? We have people out there like Trez giving 100% and beal just shooting 3's and giving 25%.

We finally have a legit team, and a good coach....c'mon man. Maybe he needs 2-3 days or 2-3 weeks off?

DCZards · Post #53 » by **DCZards** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:48 pm

Donkey McDonkerton wrote:It's time, it's time. He has earned this thread.....My oh my, watching him these last few games has been extremely painful. It looks like he is in slow motion, dribbling the ball off the foot, making a bad pass, missing easy bunny's...WTF is up with this dude? We have people out there like Trez giving 100% and beal just shooting 3's and giving 25%.

We finally have a legit team, and a good coach....c'mon man. Maybe he needs 2-3 days or 2-3 weeks off?

…or maybe we need to give him more than 3 games.

Donkey McDonkerton · Post #54 » by **Donkey McDonkerton** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:56 pm

DCZards wrote:
Donkey McDonkerton wrote:It's time, it's time. He has earned this thread.....My oh my, watching him these last few games has been extremely painful. It looks like he is in slow motion, dribbling the ball off the foot, making a bad pass, missing easy bunny's...WTF is up with this dude? We have people out there like Trez giving 100% and beal just shooting 3's and giving 25%.

We finally have a legit team, and a good coach....c'mon man. Maybe he needs 2-3 days or 2-3 weeks off?

…or maybe we need to give him more than 3 games.

That's a terrible idea, please dont bring any logic to an amazingly sucky thread.

Maybe covid is still slowing him down. I wonder if he is open to getting vaxxed???

Post #55 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:07 pm

Donkey McDonkerton wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Donkey McDonkerton wrote:It's time, it's time. He has earned this thread.....My oh my, watching him these last few games has been extremely painful. It looks like he is in slow motion, dribbling the ball off the foot, making a bad pass, missing easy bunny's...WTF is up with this dude? We have people out there like Trez giving 100% and beal just shooting 3's and giving 25%.

We finally have a legit team, and a good coach....c'mon man. Maybe he needs 2-3 days or 2-3 weeks off?

…or maybe we need to give him more than 3 games.

That's a terrible idea, please dont bring any logic to an amazingly sucky thread.

Maybe covid is still slowing him down. I wonder if he is open to getting vaxxed???

One shot won't do it. he'll need 2 to 3 shots. Actually, he took more than 2 dozen shots last night. As long as he doesn't show a vexing immunity to playing defense, we'll let him do as he pleases.

tontoz · Post #56 » by **tontoz** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:09 pm

Shooting poorly i can accept. Even Steph has bad shooting nights.

Shooting poorly while taking 25 shots on a team that scored 135 without you....that is a problem.

FAH1223 · Post #57 » by **FAH1223** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:18 pm

I feel like we have an Amazingly Sucky Beal thread from a few years ago.

Read on Twitter

CntOutSmrtCrazy · Post #58 » by **CntOutSmrtCrazy** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:23 pm

tontoz wrote:Shooting poorly i can accept. Even Steph has bad shooting nights.

Shooting poorly while taking 25 shots on a team that scored 135 without you....that is a problem.

New nickname Bradley Meal.

JWizmentality · Post #59 » by **JWizmentality** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:54 pm

I can accept off shooting nights but when Brad is in a funk, he literally looks like a random guy you picked up off the street with the bone headed turnovers. Play after play after play could fill a whole segment of Shaqtin a fool.

leswizards · Post #60 » by **leswizards** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:22 pm

Bradley Beal is the only Wizard with a negative winshare.