You've seen enough: To Beal or not to Beal? (Poll)

dckingsfan · Post #41 » by **dckingsfan** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 2:26 pm

Good point Tontoz - if he was on another team - no way we take him... well, not for a long-term max deal anyway.

ozthegap · Post #42 » by **ozthegap** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 2:56 pm

Any chance of beal asking the wiz not to match?

FAH1223 · Post #43 » by **FAH1223** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 3:09 pm

ozthegap wrote:Any chance of beal asking the wiz not to match?

Doubt it

He may not even get an offer sheet

Post #44 » by **nate33** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 3:10 pm

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:Beal is a career 78% shooter from the foul line. What other quality pg shoots that badly from the line?

Other than making 3s what is he actually good at? I say let him walk.

I've been driving the "Beal is Mediocre" bus for a while now, but I don't think it's quite this simple. If we just let him walk, we will end up with nothing for our #3 overall pick 4 years ago. Replacing him would be pretty difficult because the same dynamics that are driving up Beal's free agency cost are also driving up his replacements.

Ultimately, I think fishercob is right. Even if Beal is signed to a max deal, he'll probably be movable next year since the cap is going up yet again and that contract drops from 25% of the cap to 20% of the cap. I think there's enough upside that it's worth the gamble, particularly if we get a new coach that knows how to maximize a player's skillset. Do you think Carlisle or Popovich would allow Beal to have a USG% over 25% while posting a 103 ORtg?

Where he was picked is irrelevant. That is a sunk cost. It shouldn't matter whether he was picked at 3 or at 20.The relevant question is whether or not he will be worth signing at the salary he will likely get.

If Beal was on another team would you be looking to target him in free agency?

If I had $45M in cap room, he'd be a target after trying to get Durant or Whiteside first - at least as long as we're a team who is trying to win in the immediate future (in Gortat's remaining prime years). If we traded Gortat and tried to reset for a window of opportunity 2-3 years down the road, I'd probably pass on Beal.

tontoz · Post #45 » by **tontoz** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 4:56 pm

I dont agree. This year when Beal was out we had a similar record with Temple starting and Temple wouldnt play on most teams. If you are trying to win immediately i don't see Beal as a guy who should be targeted. He is not an impact player.

Post #46 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 5:41 pm

Ruzious wrote:
fishercob wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Even for the teams that like him a lot, because of his injuries - they're not going to offer even close to the max, imo. Then it comes down to - Who are the Wiz negotiating against? It better not be against themselves.

um...

Washington Wizards President Ernie Grunfeld announced today that the team has signed guard Eric Maynor.

Yup. If I remember correctly, he signed Maynor very early in free agency - paying about double what some better free agent PGs got. He could not wait to bleep himself.

Yep -- they made identical offers to 3 FA PGs that offseason, letting each know that the first who accepted would get the contract. I'm drawing a blank at the moment who the other two were, but one wasn't much good either, and the other was decent. It was almost as if the front office didn't really know how to distinguish between the relative qualities of the players. Then better players signed elsewhere for less.

Post #47 » by **montestewart** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 6:02 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
fishercob wrote:

um...

Yup. If I remember correctly, he signed Maynor very early in free agency - paying about double what some better free agent PGs got. He could not wait to bleep himself.

Yep -- they made identical offers to 3 FA PGs that offseason, letting each know that the first who accepted would get the contract. I'm drawing a blank at the moment who the other two were, but one wasn't much good either, and the other was decent. It was almost as if the front office didn't really know how to distinguish between the relative qualities of the players. Then better players signed elsewhere for less.

I think Udrih was one. I don't even remember a third.

Post #48 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 6:05 pm

montestewart wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Yup. If I remember correctly, he signed Maynor very early in free agency - paying about double what some better free agent PGs got. He could not wait to bleep himself.

Yep -- they made identical offers to 3 FA PGs that offseason, letting each know that the first who accepted would get the contract. I'm drawing a blank at the moment who the other two were, but one wasn't much good either, and the other was decent. It was almost as if the front office didn't really know how to distinguish between the relative qualities of the players. Then better players signed elsewhere for less.

I think Udrih was one. I don't even remember a third.

I sorta think it was Nate Robinson. Not certain, though.

fishercob · Post #49 » by **fishercob** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 6:06 pm

AJ Price?

Post #50 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 6:07 pm

fishercob wrote:AJ Price?

Nope. Price had actually played well for them, had been better than Maynor throughout their careers, and would happily have signed a one-year minimum salary deal. So naturally, the Wizards never made him an offer.

Post #51 » by **Ruzious** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 7:07 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:
montestewart wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:Yep -- they made identical offers to 3 FA PGs that offseason, letting each know that the first who accepted would get the contract. I'm drawing a blank at the moment who the other two were, but one wasn't much good either, and the other was decent. It was almost as if the front office didn't really know how to distinguish between the relative qualities of the players. Then better players signed elsewhere for less.

I think Udrih was one. I don't even remember a third.

I sorta think it was Nate Robinson. Not certain, though.

Yeah, Lil Nate was in the mix. DJ Augustin, I think. Actually, the player I thought made the most sense was Shaun Livingston, because he rehabbed his career with the Zards the season before, so why not extend him - rather than act as a minor league developmental franchise for someone else.

fishercob · Post #52 » by **fishercob** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 7:22 pm

Ruzious wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:
montestewart wrote:I think Udrih was one. I don't even remember a third.

I sorta think it was Nate Robinson. Not certain, though.

Yeah, Lil Nate was in the mix. DJ Augustin, I think. Actually, the player I thought made the most sense was Shaun Livingston, because he rehabbed his career with the Zards the season before, so why not extend him - rather than act as a minor league developmental franchise for someone else.

The Wizards clearly made the right move cutting Livingston twice. He hasn't done anything of consequence since.

Post #53 » by **Ruzious** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 8:23 pm

fishercob wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:I sorta think it was Nate Robinson. Not certain, though.

Yeah, Lil Nate was in the mix. DJ Augustin, I think. Actually, the player I thought made the most sense was Shaun Livingston, because he rehabbed his career with the Zards the season before, so why not extend him - rather than act as a minor league developmental franchise for someone else.

The Wizards clearly made the right move cutting Livingston twice. He hasn't done anything of consequence since.

I'm not going to say that we could be the team with both Livingston and Seth Curry's brother. Won't bring up that apparently Klay Thompson was our second choice behind Vesely. Or that we passed on Draymon Green in the second round... Well, let's be honest - if we had drafted Green, we'd have stashed him in a YMCA league in Bethesda.

Post #54 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 10:09 pm

Ruzious wrote:Well, let's be honest - if we had drafted Green, we'd have stashed him in a YMCA league in Bethesda.

Sure, but it would have been part of a plan to help him develop into the next Drew Gooden.

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/4RGbrEmVrhc[/YouTube]

80sballboy · Post #55 » by **80sballboy** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:19 am

All the so-called experts appear to think he's getting the max from other teams, so I have no problem offering him what Nate said (around $16M) and then matching if somebody goes higher. It's basically up to Ted, not EG or some new GM. My assumption is that Ted loves Beal as a face of the franchise, even if that face is absent for 25 games per season. For all his warts he still has this:
21.2 points per game, 38.8% 3-point, 41.4% FG, 81.5% FG, 5.5 rebounds, 4.6 APG in 21 playoff games. That's not bad for a soon to be 23-year old kid that can't dribble, gets hurt all the time, is turnover-prone, struggles being "the guy" and isn't Mr. Clutch.

Playoffs
Season TEAM AGE GP GS MIN PTS FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TOV PF
2013-14 WAS 21 11 11 41.6 19.2 6.8 16.1 42.4 2.0 4.8 41.5 3.5 4.5 79.6 1.4 3.6 5.0 4.5 1.6 0.6 2.1 2.8
2014-15 WAS 22 10 10 41.8 23.4 8.1 20.0 40.5 2.3 6.3 36.5 4.9 5.9 83.1 1.4 4.1 5.5 4.6 1.6 0.7 2.6 1.9
Overall: 21 21 41.7 21.2 7.4 18.0 41.4 2.1 5.5 38.8 4.2 5.1 81.5 1.4 3.9 5.2 4.6 1.6 0.7 2.3 2.4

payitforward · Post #56 » by **payitforward** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:04 am

dckingsfan wrote:I think we try to S&T Beal and try to get something for him. There must be some club out there who needs a 4th option that is strictly a shooter. I know folks might not want to hear this - but I think Satoransky is now better than Beal. So, I think we should put our money in that option. Satoransky is:

1) a better ball handler
2) a better passer
3) a better 3 pt shooter
4) He is an equivalent defender (actually switches better on bigs)

In my mind, we definitely make the playoffs if he was on the team this year.

I take it you've seen quite a lot of Tomas Satoransky? Have you?

If not -- and even if you have, for that matter -- what basis do you have for this comparison with Beal?

And, even if you are somehow "right" about a comparison that in fact can't be made at all, what makes Satoransky an either/or choice w/ Beal on the other side of it?

And even if that were a meaningful either or choice, what makes you think we can actually bring Satoransky to the Wizards this off season?

payitforward · Post #57 » by **payitforward** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:15 am

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:...If we just let him walk, we will end up with nothing for our #3 overall pick 4 years ago.

Where he was picked is irrelevant. That is a sunk cost. It shouldn't matter whether he was picked at 3 or at 20.The relevant question is whether or not he will be worth signing at the salary he will likely get.

If Beal was on another team would you be looking to target him in free agency?

On the button. That's the question.

But... our GM isn't going to view it that way. If he lets Beal walk, that will make 12 of the team's last 15 draft picks flushed down the toilet -- bringing us no benefit whatsoever as assets of any kind.

Not to mention the 2 picks from this year that Ernie has flushed as well, and one pick in 2017 too !! 15 picks that have brought the team nothing at all.

Ernie will max Beal for sure, and if he doesn't work out he'll have found a way to make it not his fault.

TdotRap4Lyfe · Post #58 » by **TdotRap4Lyfe** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:59 am

You guys are in a similar position to us this off-season. Except, with Beal being a RFA, you have less chance of walking away empty handed. Whether or not you guys feel he is the future next to Wall, a fair offer should be given to him. It isn't like your GM can't move him in the future, with the rising cap, there will be a lot of losers this Free Agency, who'd give up a few players, picks or combination of the two for him.

P.S. kinda wandered into this board.

CobraCommander · Post #59 » by **CobraCommander** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:50 am

TdotRap4Lyfe wrote:You guys are in a similar position to us this off-season. Except, with Beal being a RFA, you have less chance of walking away empty handed. Whether or not you guys feel he is the future next to Wall, a fair offer should be given to him. It isn't like your GM can't move him in the future, with the rising cap, there will be a lot of losers this Free Agency, who'd give up a few players, picks or combination of the two for him.

P.S. kinda wandered into this board.

You wandered into enemy territory (j/k...kinda)

The cRaptors are in trouble. You almost have to MAX someone that you are not sure is a max player or they walk. I can't feel sorry for you while we are home for the playoffs though...

good luck and I will be pulling for y'all against the Cavs.

But remember we swept y'all last year...

J-Ves · Post #60 » by **J-Ves** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:17 am

CobraCommander wrote:
TdotRap4Lyfe wrote:You guys are in a similar position to us this off-season. Except, with Beal being a RFA, you have less chance of walking away empty handed. Whether or not you guys feel he is the future next to Wall, a fair offer should be given to him. It isn't like your GM can't move him in the future, with the rising cap, there will be a lot of losers this Free Agency, who'd give up a few players, picks or combination of the two for him.

P.S. kinda wandered into this board.

But remember we swept y'all last year...

None of that matters anymore. We are fans of a loser franchise while his team is going to the playoffs after a 50+ win season. Hold dat.

What should the Wizards do with Bradley Beal?