Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[Rafael122]

So it seems like the Pacers are imploding. Got swept in the 1st round, J. Michael has hinted somewhat all season that there is this weird dynamic between Oladipo and Pacers management. He probably knows a lot more than what he's let on, but the rumor coming out today is that 'Dipo wants out, and Turner is right behind him.

I'm actually not interested in Oladipo at all. Shaky knees, and we're already dealing with an injury situation with Wall. I would absolutely make a play for Turner though. He's actually shown 3 point range, so you couple that with his defense and we'd improve our defense immensely.

I'm all on board for trading Bryant, Ish Smith, and Jerome Robinson for Myles Turner. If they're asking for TBJ, I'd consider including the 9th pick instead.

[pcbothwel]

Just spitballin' here, but if we end up drafting Halliburton, we might want to make a trade to free up some minutes in the backcourt. How about:

WAS trades: Ish + Robinson
ORL trades: Aminu

Aminu is under contract through 2022, which doesn't really hurt us because we're not players in 2021 free agency anyway. It clears up a log jam for us in the backcourt, and it clears up some of their log jam at forward, while providing them a capable veteran PG to replace D.J. Augustin, and cap relief in 2021.

A lot would depend on Aminu's health. He had complications with his meniscus surgery this season and I have no idea if he has fully recovered. But if regained his form as the solid, defensive-minded power forward from Portland a year ago, that would be a good fit on this team since we have no natural PF besides Rui. It also frees up a roster spot, even after signing Nerlens Noel.

PG Wall, Haliburton
SG Beal, Brown
SF Bonga, Bertans
PF Hachimura, Aminu
C Bryant, Noel
End of bench: Mathews, Schofield, Wagner, 2nd pick

Our crunch time lineup of Wall, Beal, Bertans, Aminu, Noel would be pretty good.

Lol... have you been stealing my ideas off the GB?
Kidding. But in all seriousness, I think its a great match for the reasons you outlined above. I love that he would play well with Rui, Bertans, or Bonga because of his rebounding and defense... But I really have zero idea about how his knee is.

That said, he makes more than the MLE and would probably get less than half that given his age (30) and his knee injury. I'd want their 2nd round pick as well.

They NEED playmakers from the guard spot and Ish would be perfect for them.

[pcbothwel]

So it seems like the Pacers are imploding. Got swept in the 1st round, J. Michael has hinted somewhat all season that there is this weird dynamic between Oladipo and Pacers management. He probably knows a lot more than what he's let on, but the rumor coming out today is that 'Dipo wants out, and Turner is right behind him.

I'm actually not interested in Oladipo at all. Shaky knees, and we're already dealing with an injury situation with Wall. I would absolutely make a play for Turner though. He's actually shown 3 point range, so you couple that with his defense and we'd improve our defense immensely.

I'm all on board for trading Bryant, Ish Smith, and Jerome Robinson for Myles Turner. If they're asking for TBJ, I'd consider including the 9th pick instead.

Im sorry.. but this is just crazy.
Over the past two years Bryant and Turner have put up quite a sample size. Bryant is the better scorer from all 3 levels, that gets 30% more rebounds, twice as many assist, with less turnovers, while committing fewer fouls.

Yes, Turner gets more blocks, but his overall defense is simply average.
Bryant > Turner
Bryant @ 2/17M >>> Turner @ 3/54M

But you are willing to give up 9 too

[nate33]

Lol... have you been stealing my ideas off the GB?
Kidding. But in all seriousness, I think its a great match for the reasons you outlined above. I love that he would play well with Rui, Bertans, or Bonga because of his rebounding and defense... But I really have zero idea about how his knee is.

That said, he makes more than the MLE and would probably get less than half that given his age (30) and his knee injury. I'd want their 2nd round pick as well.

They NEED playmakers from the guard spot and Ish would be perfect for them.

Honestly, I had not seen you or anyone else make the proposal. I just know we need a defensive-minded 4 and Orlando makes sense as a team who could take on our surplus of guards.

I agree that we should probably finagle a bit more out of the trade since we are absorbing an extra year of Aminu's salary.

[nate33]

Im sorry.. but this is just crazy.
Over the past two years Bryant and Turner have put up quite a sample size. Bryant is the better scorer from all 3 levels, that gets 30% more rebounds, twice as many assist, with less turnovers, while committing fewer fouls.

Yes, Turner gets more blocks, but his overall defense is simply average.
Bryant > Turner
Bryant @ 2/17M >>> Turner @ 3/54M

But you are willing to give up 9 too

Statistically, it's hard to argue that Turner is better than Bryant. But I do think that there are intangible factors that don't show up in the box score favoring Turner. Indiana has been a top 6 defensive team for two years now despite a pretty poor group of defenders at guard and forward - guys like Bogdanovic, Lamb, Warren, Collison and Tyreke Evans. And it's not like Sabonis is a defensive monster in the paint either. I have to think that Miles Turner has something to do with it.

All that said, I think Turner is a bit overrated as a player and Indiana would ask for far more than what he is worth. Also, I don't see them trading Turner with a true center coming back as the centerpiece of the deal. Sabonis is their center. They're going to want a rangy defensive PF to pair with him. That's not Thomas Bryant.

[Rafael122]

Turner might get a haul just because he's got 3 years left on his deal. But as is often the case, teams are probably going to get 25 to 50 cents on the dollar for players like him. Like I just read Houston is interested for him and they have absolutely nothing to offer.

Turner is already light years ahead of Bryant defensively. Keep something in mind, Myles Turner is only a year older than Thomas Bryant and Shep allegedly made calls at the deadline regarding Turner.

Smith and Bryant will have to be included just to make salaries work. Then it's just a matter of adding Robinson with the pick, or Brown without a pick.

[Ruzious]

Trade talk with Philly is inevitable - if D'Antoni is named their new coach https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/09/sixers-ownership-wants-mike-dantoni-as-head-coach.html And if D'Antoni is named coach, ya gotta figure, he'll try to trade Embiid. So, if Philly phails to get the beard for Embiid, who's next on their wish list?

Embiid and picks 34 and 36 (which are the 2nd and 3rd of 5 picks they have) for Beal and Bryant? If Philly doesn't want Bryant, they can trade him for a more nimble center. Figure they're going to start Horford at center, Harris at PF, and Richardson at SF - with Thybulle as 6th man. Backcourt of Simmons and Beal.

Washington picks: 9 - Halliburton or Hayes. 34 and 36 - Tyler Bey and Xavier Tillman - emphasizing defense and leadership. Though it's hard to pass up players like Flynn, Pritchard, and Riller in the 2nd round. ? Yeah, I think when push comes to shove, I'd pass on Tillman to get one of those high 2nd round guards. Sheppard probably goes Tillman - for his uber maturity factor.

[payitforward]

Just spitballin' here, but if we end up drafting Halliburton, we might want to make a trade to free up some minutes in the backcourt. How about:

WAS trades: Ish + Robinson
ORL trades: Aminu

Aminu is under contract through 2022, which doesn't really hurt us because we're not players in 2021 free agency anyway. It clears up a log jam for us in the backcourt, and it clears up some of their log jam at forward, while providing them a capable veteran PG to replace D.J. Augustin, and cap relief in 2021.

A lot would depend on Aminu's health. He had complications with his meniscus surgery this season and I have no idea if he has fully recovered. But if regained his form as the solid, defensive-minded power forward from Portland a year ago, that would be a good fit on this team since we have no natural PF besides Rui. It also frees up a roster spot, even after signing Nerlens Noel.

PG Wall, Haliburton
SG Beal, Brown
SF Bonga, Bertans
PF Hachimura, Aminu
C Bryant, Noel
End of bench: Mathews, Schofield, Wagner, 2nd pick

Our crunch time lineup of Wall, Beal, Bertans, Aminu, Noel would be pretty good.

Solid, nate -- would be a nice get. Especially since we are otherwise almost certain to guarantee Robinson through '22 anyway.

[nate33]

Turner might get a haul just because he's got 3 years left on his deal. But as is often the case, teams are probably going to get 25 to 50 cents on the dollar for players like him. Like I just read Houston is interested for him and they have absolutely nothing to offer.

Turner is already light years ahead of Bryant defensively. Keep something in mind, Myles Turner is only a year older than Thomas Bryant and Shep allegedly made calls at the deadline regarding Turner.

Smith and Bryant will have to be included just to make salaries work. Then it's just a matter of adding Robinson with the pick, or Brown without a pick.

FWIW, I'd probably lean toward trading them Brown instead of the #9 pick. Troy Brown might pan out to be a pretty good pro, but I don't think he's a very good fit alongside Wall and Beal. I'd rather take my chances that Halliburton or Vassell end up being better players.

[payitforward]

So it seems like the Pacers are imploding. Got swept in the 1st round, J. Michael has hinted somewhat all season that there is this weird dynamic between Oladipo and Pacers management. He probably knows a lot more than what he's let on, but the rumor coming out today is that 'Dipo wants out, and Turner is right behind him.

I'm actually not interested in Oladipo at all. Shaky knees, and we're already dealing with an injury situation with Wall. I would absolutely make a play for Turner though. He's actually shown 3 point range, so you couple that with his defense and we'd improve our defense immensely.

I'm all on board for trading Bryant, Ish Smith, and Jerome Robinson for Myles Turner. If they're asking for TBJ, I'd consider including the 9th pick instead.

Im sorry.. but this is just crazy.
Over the past two years Bryant and Turner have put up quite a sample size. Bryant is the better scorer from all 3 levels, that gets 30% more rebounds, twice as many assist, with less turnovers, while committing fewer fouls.

Yes, Turner gets more blocks, but his overall defense is simply average.
Bryant > Turner
Bryant @ 2/17M >>> Turner @ 3/54M

But you are willing to give up 9 too

I'm with pcbothwei on this -- & with the same level of disbelief that anyone would want to give up resources at this level for a guy who is, basically, an ordinary player.

Actually, "ordinary" may be something of a stretch. He's a below average scorer & a below average rebounder. & he's gotten worse not better the last few years.

As to "intangibles," before we talk about them we would want to ask how we replace the "tangibles" we give up. The idea that we would, essentially, undo a big part of the rebuilding effort... well, I guess I've made myself clear.

[LyricalRico]

Trade talk with Philly is inevitable - if D'Antoni is named their new coach https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/09/sixers-ownership-wants-mike-dantoni-as-head-coach.html And if D'Antoni is named coach, ya gotta figure, he'll try to trade Embiid. So, if Philly phails to get the beard for Embiid, who's next on their wish list?

Latest I saw today was Buddy Heild as a possible consolation prize for Philly.

Embiid and picks 34 and 36 (which are the 2nd and 3rd of 5 picks they have) for Beal and Bryant? If Philly doesn't want Bryant, they can trade him for a more nimble center. Figure they're going to start Horford at center, Harris at PF, and Richardson at SF - with Thybulle as 6th man. Backcourt of Simmons and Beal.

Gotta say I like that way more for Philly than for Washington. I just don't see Embiid as someone you can count on, either physically or in the playoffs.

[payitforward]

...FWIW, I'd probably lean toward trading them Brown instead of the #9 pick. Troy Brown might pan out to be a pretty good pro, but I don't think he's a very good fit alongside Wall and Beal. I'd rather take my chances that Halliburton or Vassell end up being better players.

I don't see what difference it makes. The more good players you have the better. & -- as you know -- I give very little value to the notion of "fit." When we have enough good players that we can, at a minimum, post a .500 record we can starting talking about an issue like that.

Anyway, Brown is flat out a better player than Myles Turner, & so is Thomas Bryant.

Jarrett Allen is a sensible target. Myles Turner most definitely is not.

[payitforward]

I don't like the Philly trade proposal either. Embiid is a great talent, but as LyricalRico points out he's something of a health risk. Plus, we still don't walk away with the talent to compete in the East.

As to picks #34 & 36 -- I believe we should be able to buy one of those. Brand sells high R2 picks. Plus, Ruz, your 2 targets (Tyler Bey & Xavier Tillman) are very possibly gone by then.

[doclinkin]

Worth noting that Turner's decline coincides with the rise of Sabonis. They don't share the floor well, Sabonis needs to be underneath, Turner does best there. Turner's 2FG% is the same as Bryant, he just took a higher number of worse shots, as dictated by the role he was asked to play to get him on the floor with Sabonis. Turner has made efforts towards adjusting, he now shoots about 7 3FGs/100 possessions, on decent % (as high as .388 last season). But it is an inexact fit.

This is the reason he is looking for an exit strategy.

Players who are decent but suffering behind a better player are a decent place to get a good bargain in assets. I don't know that the trades proposed are a good bargain in equivalent assets, but Turner is definitely a better defensive player than Bryant, looking at various +/- measures of defense. IT or no IT. And aside from stats, if you watch, he does an excellent job of playing defense from the pivot position, the Draymond position, poised around the FT line able to adroitly step out on the hedge or swiftly fade inside on penetration to block it from behind. I personally think he'd be a good fit with this team.

I don't think Indiana would look to replace a big with a big though, especially one less mobile than Turner. Even with the local college connection. They will get better offers from a playoff team looking for a Bam, or looking to counter the massive size that LA trots out.

[Rafael122]

Worth noting that Turner's decline coincides with the rise of Sabonis. They don't share the floor well, Sabonis needs to be underneath, Turner does best there. Turner's 2FG% is the same as Bryant, he just took a higher number of worse shots, as dictated by the role he was asked to play to get him on the floor with Sabonis. Turner has made efforts towards adjusting, he now shoots about 7 3FGs/100 possessions, on decent % (as high as .388 last season). But it is an inexact fit.

This is the reason he is looking for an exit strategy.

Players who are decent but suffering behind a better player are a decent place to get a good bargain in assets. I don't know that the trades proposed are a good bargain in equivalent assets, but Turner is definitely a better defensive player than Bryant, looking at various +/- measures of defense. IT or no IT. And aside from stats, if you watch, he does an excellent job of playing defense from the pivot position, the Draymond position, poised around the FT line able to adroitly step out on the hedge or swiftly fade inside on penetration to block it from behind. I personally think he'd be a good fit with this team.

I don't think Indiana would look to replace a big with a big though, especially one less mobile than Turner. Even with the local college connection. They will get better offers from a playoff team looking for a Bam, or looking to counter the massive size that LA trots out.

Yes, I believe Indiana was starting Sabonis and Turner at the same time at one point and it just didn't work. Sabonis got a massive extension so at some point Indiana has to chose one. Turner has more value because he can make a 3 or two in a game in addition to his defensive game.

People being down on Turner is essentially #sowizards. We overrate our own talent and the moment a player of Turner's caliber is available, it's nope, he's no better than what we have now. We're on a timeline, we got maybe 1/2 years left before WE have to make a decision on Beal. Trading for Turner improves this team immensely.

[Ruzious]

Trade talk with Philly is inevitable - if D'Antoni is named their new coach https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/09/sixers-ownership-wants-mike-dantoni-as-head-coach.html And if D'Antoni is named coach, ya gotta figure, he'll try to trade Embiid. So, if Philly phails to get the beard for Embiid, who's next on their wish list?

Latest I saw today was Buddy Heild as a possible consolation prize for Philly.

Embiid and picks 34 and 36 (which are the 2nd and 3rd of 5 picks they have) for Beal and Bryant? If Philly doesn't want Bryant, they can trade him for a more nimble center. Figure they're going to start Horford at center, Harris at PF, and Richardson at SF - with Thybulle as 6th man. Backcourt of Simmons and Beal.

Gotta say I like that way more for Philly than for Washington. I just don't see Embiid as someone you can count on, either physically or in the playoffs.

I mean, in this year's playoffs, he averaged per game - 30.0 points and 12.3 rebounds, had a 60% TS% and is an excellent defender, and is just entering the prime of his career.

[Ruzious]

I don't like the Philly trade proposal either. Embiid is a great talent, but as LyricalRico points out he's something of a health risk. Plus, we still don't walk away with the talent to compete in the East.

As to picks #34 & 36 -- I believe we should be able to buy one of those. Brand sells high R2 picks. Plus, Ruz, your 2 targets (Tyler Bey & Xavier Tillman) are very possibly gone by then.

First, there's basically no chance Philly just sells picks 34 and 36 - they're too valuable in this draft. If anything, they sell their last 2 2nd rounders.

Really, if you believe in Troy Brown Jr as much as you say you do and Haliburton - added to Embiid (the top center in the East), Bertans (top shooting forward in the East), and a rejuvenated Wall as starters, and add Bonga, an improved Rui, Mathews, Napier, and the 34, 36, and 37th picks - if you don't think they can get TBey and Tillman, say they get Flynn, Pritchard, and one of Isaiah Stewart, Paul Reed, or Reggie Perry, and they get a useful veteran with one of the cap exceptions... why can't that team compete in the East? And that's a young team - Wall's the oldest player.

[queridiculo]

Statistically, it's hard to argue that Turner is better than Bryant. But I do think that there are intangible factors that don't show up in the box score favoring Turner. Indiana has been a top 6 defensive team for two years now despite a pretty poor group of defenders at guard and forward - guys like Bogdanovic, Lamb, Warren, Collison and Tyreke Evans. And it's not like Sabonis is a defensive monster in the paint either. I have to think that Miles Turner has something to do with it.

All that said, I think Turner is a bit overrated as a player and Indiana would ask for far more than what he is worth. Also, I don't see them trading Turner with a true center coming back as the centerpiece of the deal. Sabonis is their center. They're going to want a rangy defensive PF to pair with him. That's not Thomas Bryant.

I just wonder about a guy like Turner, how big can his defensive impact really be when he rebounds at such a poor clip?

With Nene you could tell he just put the work in to put a body on a man and others gobbled up the boards when they shared the floor, with Turner it seems like he's out of position most of the time, wether that's by design and what he's asked to do on the defensive end is the question.

I am not convinced he's the answer, but if we could parlay our lottery pick for him whilst keeping Bryant, and Hachimura, we'd be much better off in the front court.

[queridiculo]

I mean, in this year's playoffs, he averaged per game - 30.0 points and 12.3 rebounds, had a 60% TS% and is an excellent defender, and is just entering the prime of his career.

I think the "can't count" on part has to do with his inability to stay healthy.

How long exactly is that prime going to last?

I just don't see Embiid being somebody you can build your franchise around, but I like the potential of a Wall/Embiid enough to bust a what the heck if there are any signs that Beal may not be in it for the long haul.

[Ruzious]

I mean, in this year's playoffs, he averaged per game - 30.0 points and 12.3 rebounds, had a 60% TS% and is an excellent defender, and is just entering the prime of his career.

I think the "can't count" on part has to do with his inability to stay healthy.

How long exactly is that prime going to last?

I just don't see Embiid being somebody you can build your franchise around, but I like the potential of a Wall/Embiid enough to bust a what the heck if there are any signs that Beal may not be in it for the long haul.

It's a bit like the Anthony Davis situation. For years, he had various injury problems and only played in the playoffs 2 of his first 7 seasons, but this season he's stayed healthy and he might be the playoffs MVP of an NBA championship. Of course, there is a guy named Lebron on his team - though the rest of the team isn't all that impressive.