Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[Ruzious]

I’m not sure how you can call Westbrook untradeable. If he pulls down 10 rebounds and has a good shooting night next game, he’s going to be averaging a 20/10/10 triple double on close to his career average efficiency.

Obviously he’s not going to drop 40 every night, but he has looked like a completely different player in the last couple of games. Getting to the rim with ease, more lift on his jumpshot, much better passing and decision making. With everyone back healthy, this team is going to start to turn it around I think. Not sure if that’s a good thing though.

I still think the Knicks are the team for Westbrook - because they're a team that never has the patience to do a proper rebuild. Not to mention, they're going with Elfrid Payton as the only real point guard on the roster. And the Knicks have cap room. And he'll be popular in NY. Do I think they'll win with him? Probably not.

[penbeast0]

You have a much less mercenary and more warm and fuzzy view of sports teams than I do. As I said in a previous post, if Seattle will deal Gary Payton, San Antonio will deal George Gervin, Atlanta will deal Dominique Wilkins . . . all the alltime face of their franchise (ok, excepting only Tim Duncan), I believe GS will look at this with loyalty and alienating fans being very small parts of the equation.

For the right team, Klay Thompson is an awesome 2nd star ceiling-raiser who can win you a title and is worth the money he is paid. On the wrong team, he is a declining player on a really expensive contract that will look like an albatross in a couple of years.

Golden State is the right team. We are the wrong team. It makes no sense whatsoever to trade Klay to Washington.

I disagree. You need to send either Wiggins or Klay to make the salaries work. I think Klay is a much better fit for us than for GS and Wiggins for GS. (a) He is injured this year and with Draymond and Curry being healthy this year, the league being very fluid, and no guarantees of these two older players being capable when Klay becomes healthy, this year matters much more to GS. (b) No guarantee that Klay comes back healthy and at full capacity next year. It's a tough injury to rehab from. But, for us, Klay and Westbrook will be that core of veteran leadership to teach the young players how to play; for GS they have Draymond and Curry in that role already. Meanwhile Wiggins has a history of dogging it when they aren't competitive and that's the Last thing we need. I'd rather have Klay on the bench in a suit letting us develop a bench than Wiggins eating minutes without a decent probability of being a good player for us in the future and I don't see Wiggins doing that.

So, Klay is better for the tank and better for the development; meanwhile GS needs bodies on the wing at SF and Oubre/Wiggins gives them that. Klay's value is also hurt by the extra year and extra $ on his contract so the trade has a better chance of going through. Those are not good things for either GS or Washington though and if anything hurt GS more than us (lux tax potential).

[nate33]

You have a much less mercenary and more warm and fuzzy view of sports teams than I do. As I said in a previous post, if Seattle will deal Gary Payton, San Antonio will deal George Gervin, Atlanta will deal Dominique Wilkins . . . all the alltime face of their franchise (ok, excepting only Tim Duncan), I believe GS will look at this with loyalty and alienating fans being very small parts of the equation.

For the right team, Klay Thompson is an awesome 2nd star ceiling-raiser who can win you a title and is worth the money he is paid. On the wrong team, he is a declining player on a really expensive contract that will look like an albatross in a couple of years.

Golden State is the right team. We are the wrong team. It makes no sense whatsoever to trade Klay to Washington.

I disagree. You need to send either Wiggins or Klay to make the salaries work. I think Klay is a much better fit for us than for GS and Wiggins for GS. (a) He is injured this year and with Draymond and Curry being healthy this year, the league being very fluid, and no guarantees of these two older players being capable when Klay becomes healthy, this year matters much more to GS. (b) No guarantee that Klay comes back healthy and at full capacity next year. It's a tough injury to rehab from. But, for us, Klay and Westbrook will be that core of veteran leadership to teach the young players how to play; for GS they have Draymond and Curry in that role already. Meanwhile Wiggins has a history of dogging it when they aren't competitive and that's the Last thing we need. I'd rather have Klay on the bench in a suit letting us develop a bench than Wiggins eating minutes without a decent probability of being a good player for us in the future and I don't see Wiggins doing that.

So, Klay is better for the tank and better for the development; meanwhile GS needs bodies on the wing at SF and Oubre/Wiggins gives them that. Klay's value is also hurt by the extra year and extra $ on his contract so the trade has a better chance of going through. Those are not good things for either GS or Washington though and if anything hurt GS more than us (lux tax potential).

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I challenge you to find any GS fans who would actively prefer to send Klay out in a Beal deal instead of Wiggins (assuming all other aspects of the trade are the same).

[pcbothwel]

I’m not sure how you can call Westbrook untradeable. If he pulls down 10 rebounds and has a good shooting night next game, he’s going to be averaging a 20/10/10 triple double on close to his career average efficiency.

Obviously he’s not going to drop 40 every night, but he has looked like a completely different player in the last couple of games. Getting to the rim with ease, more lift on his jumpshot, much better passing and decision making. With everyone back healthy, this team is going to start to turn it around I think. Not sure if that’s a good thing though.

I still think the Knicks are the team for Westbrook - because they're a team that never has the patience to do a proper rebuild. Not to mention, they're going with Elfrid Payton as the only real point guard on the roster. And the Knicks have cap room. And he'll be popular in NY. Do I think they'll win with him? Probably not.

Agree with both of you. His salary, age, usage, personality, etc. make him a hard fit in a lot of places, but certainly not untradeable if he produces near his average over the last 2 years.
Love the NY fit with Thibs... The only issue with NY is that their books are clear after this year, and I feel like we'd have to take back at least some bad salary in order to not add an asset. They could just go after Mike Conley or Lowry with cap space on a much better contract.
Russ may need to go to a team with no cap space. Detroit for Blake & Wright seems like a decent fit as they allow Hayes 2 years to grow into starting PG to take over for Russ. We get out of Russ's last year, but Blake has fallen off even more than Russ and would really clog up that 4 spot with Rui, Bertans, and Deni.

[NatP4]

I’m not sure how you can call Westbrook untradeable. If he pulls down 10 rebounds and has a good shooting night next game, he’s going to be averaging a 20/10/10 triple double on close to his career average efficiency.

Obviously he’s not going to drop 40 every night, but he has looked like a completely different player in the last couple of games. Getting to the rim with ease, more lift on his jumpshot, much better passing and decision making. With everyone back healthy, this team is going to start to turn it around I think. Not sure if that’s a good thing though.

I still think the Knicks are the team for Westbrook - because they're a team that never has the patience to do a proper rebuild. Not to mention, they're going with Elfrid Payton as the only real point guard on the roster. And the Knicks have cap room. And he'll be popular in NY. Do I think they'll win with him? Probably not.

Agree with both of you. His salary, age, usage, personality, etc. make him a hard fit in a lot of places, but certainly not untradeable if he produces near his average over the last 2 years.
Love the NY fit with Thibs... The only issue with NY is that their books are clear after this year, and I feel like we'd have to take back at least some bad salary in order to not add an asset. They could just go after Mike Conley or Lowry with cap space on a much better contract.
Russ may need to go to a team with no cap space. Detroit for Blake & Wright seems like a decent fit as they allow Hayes 2 years to grow into starting PG to take over for Russ. We get out of Russ's last year, but Blake has fallen off even more than Russ and would really clog up that 4 spot with Rui, Bertans, and Deni.

We are going to fleece Boston for a Kemba-Westbrook straight up trade. Speaking it into existence.

[nate33]

I’m not sure how you can call Westbrook untradeable. If he pulls down 10 rebounds and has a good shooting night next game, he’s going to be averaging a 20/10/10 triple double on close to his career average efficiency.

Obviously he’s not going to drop 40 every night, but he has looked like a completely different player in the last couple of games. Getting to the rim with ease, more lift on his jumpshot, much better passing and decision making. With everyone back healthy, this team is going to start to turn it around I think. Not sure if that’s a good thing though.

I still think the Knicks are the team for Westbrook - because they're a team that never has the patience to do a proper rebuild. Not to mention, they're going with Elfrid Payton as the only real point guard on the roster. And the Knicks have cap room. And he'll be popular in NY. Do I think they'll win with him? Probably not.

Agree with both of you. His salary, age, usage, personality, etc. make him a hard fit in a lot of places, but certainly not untradeable if he produces near his average over the last 2 years.
Love the NY fit with Thibs... The only issue with NY is that their books are clear after this year, and I feel like we'd have to take back at least some bad salary in order to not add an asset. They could just go after Mike Conley or Lowry with cap space on a much better contract.
Russ may need to go to a team with no cap space. Detroit for Blake & Wright seems like a decent fit as they allow Hayes 2 years to grow into starting PG to take over for Russ. We get out of Russ's last year, but Blake has fallen off even more than Russ and would really clog up that 4 spot with Rui, Bertans, and Deni.

One interesting aspect of a Westbrook for Griffin trade is that it would put us into position to have $45M in cap room in 2022 after accounting for Beal's salary. Our team would be:

Beal (cap hold)
Avdija
Bertans
Hachimura
Mathews
2021 lotto pick
2022 lotto pick
$45M in cap room.

Free agents in 2022 include: Kawhi, A.Gordon, Bryant, Kyle Anderson, TJ Warren, Marcus Smart and the entire 2018 draft class who will be restricted free agents (Wendell Carter, Marvin Bagley, etc.)

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Anyone think a Beal to Denver for Murray + Porter Jr could be possible?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7390661

[nate33]

Anyone think a Beal to Denver for Murray + Porter Jr could be possible?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7390661

Yes. It's one of the 5 hypothetical Beal trades that are on my radar:

GSW: Beal for Wiseman, MIN 2021 1st and stuff
Denver: Beal for MPJ and stuff
Philly: Beal for Simmons and stuff
Miami: Beal for Herro, Achiuwa and stuff
Atlanta: Beal for Hunter, Okongwu and stuff

Those are the only Beal trades that I would contemplate at the moment. I'm not saying I would do them, but I think they're the only ones worth talking about. I don't think the rest of the league can beat these deals while leaving themselves with enough talent to compete for a title with Beal. At the moment, the GSW deal is the best. I might do the Denver deal. Philly probably isn't interested in the Simmons deal since things are clicking for them now. I'd only do the Atlanta or Miami deal if I was feeling the pressure of Beal leaving and I couldn't execute the GSW deal. (I'm not sure Atlanta offers that package anyway. How much offense do they need?)

[penbeast0]

Beal (and Ish Smith) to Orlando for Isaacs, Futz, and Fournier +picks is the other one on my radar. IF (and it's a big if) I trusted Washington's med staff to do an evaluation of Isaacs and if they said he was going to be healthy. Isaacs is what we need here; a defensive focused 4/5 who can rim protect and play with Bryant as well as swing over to play with Hachimura/Bertrans and cover for some of their (many) defensive deficiencies. They go for it with Vucevic/Gordon/Beal as a core. The health issue may take it off the radar; I can't judge that well.

[pcbothwel]

Anyone think a Beal to Denver for Murray + Porter Jr could be possible?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7390661

Ehhh. Any team looking to add Beal wants to compete immediately. Trading two starters like Murray and Porter really nullifies that.

It would be Harris & Porter with a couple picks.

Thing is, we've played 16 games so far and project to play 3X that many before the Trade deadline. A lot will change across the league over the next 50-60 days & 30+ games.

Im really intrigued about the possible GSW package, but imagine that Minny gets a top 3 pick and its therefor protected. They could easily utilize that pick and other filler/young players (Rubio/Okogie/Culver/Hernangomez) to get a legit 2nd/3rd piece that could push their 2022 pick out of the top 12.

I guy like Ben Simmons next to Towns would be a really tough combo and I could see them with an improved Edwards and mediocre DLo winning enough games to drive that 2022 pick down.

[Dat2U]

Anyone think a Beal to Denver for Murray + Porter Jr could be possible?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7390661

Yes. It's one of the 5 hypothetical Beal trades that are on my radar:

GSW: Beal for Wiseman, MIN 2021 1st and stuff
Denver: Beal for MPJ and stuff
Philly: Beal for Simmons and stuff
Miami: Beal for Herro, Achiuwa and stuff
Atlanta: Beal for Hunter, Okongwu and stuff

Those are the only Beal trades that I would contemplate at the moment. I'm not saying I would do them, but I think they're the only ones worth talking about. I don't think the rest of the league can beat these deals while leaving themselves with enough talent to compete for a title with Beal. At the moment, the GSW deal is the best. I might do the Denver deal. Philly probably isn't interested in the Simmons deal since things are clicking for them now. I'd only do the Atlanta or Miami deal if I was feeling the pressure of Beal leaving and I couldn't execute the GSW deal. (I'm not sure Atlanta offers that package anyway. How much offense do they need?)

How'd I rank them:

1. MPJ & C-level prospects & future picks (low firsts) - two or three
2. Simmons & Maxey and a 1st
3. Wiseman & 2021 Minny 1st, maybe future 1st & acpick swap as well.
4. Herro, Achiuwa, Robinson & two far away picks in '25 & 27
5. Hunter, Okongwu, Huerter & (2) future picks

Orlando's offer is trash. Issac is injured and Fultz can't shoot.

Minny & Charlotte apparently are both interested in Beal as well. Getting a stockpile of picks from either franchise would be very temping.

[NatP4]

Anyone think a Beal to Denver for Murray + Porter Jr could be possible?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7390661

Yes. It's one of the 5 hypothetical Beal trades that are on my radar:

GSW: Beal for Wiseman, MIN 2021 1st and stuff
Denver: Beal for MPJ and stuff
Philly: Beal for Simmons and stuff
Miami: Beal for Herro, Achiuwa and stuff
Atlanta: Beal for Hunter, Okongwu and stuff

Those are the only Beal trades that I would contemplate at the moment. I'm not saying I would do them, but I think they're the only ones worth talking about. I don't think the rest of the league can beat these deals while leaving themselves with enough talent to compete for a title with Beal. At the moment, the GSW deal is the best. I might do the Denver deal. Philly probably isn't interested in the Simmons deal since things are clicking for them now. I'd only do the Atlanta or Miami deal if I was feeling the pressure of Beal leaving and I couldn't execute the GSW deal. (I'm not sure Atlanta offers that package anyway. How much offense do they need?)

How'd I rank them:

1. MPJ & C-level prospects & future picks (low firsts) - two or three
2. Simmons & Maxey and a 1st
3. Wiseman & 2021 Minny 1st, maybe future 1st & acpick swap as well.
4. Herro, Achiuwa, Robinson & two far away picks in '25 & 27
5. Hunter, Okongwu, Huerter & (2) future picks

Orlando's offer is trash. Issac is injured and Fultz can't shoot.

Minny & Charlotte apparently are both interested in Beal as well. Getting a stockpile of picks from either franchise would be very temping.

What is Orlando’s offer? I haven’t seen anything.

[nate33]

Beal (and Ish Smith) to Orlando for Isaacs, Futz, and Fournier +picks is the other one on my radar. IF (and it's a big if) I trusted Washington's med staff to do an evaluation of Isaacs and if they said he was going to be healthy. Isaacs is what we need here; a defensive focused 4/5 who can rim protect and play with Bryant as well as swing over to play with Hachimura/Bertrans and cover for some of their (many) defensive deficiencies. They go for it with Vucevic/Gordon/Beal as a core. The health issue may take it off the radar; I can't judge that well.

I just don't think Orlando would offer this because the team they're left with isn't really much better than our team. So why would Beal stay there?

[NatP4]

Beal (and Ish Smith) to Orlando for Isaacs, Futz, and Fournier +picks is the other one on my radar. IF (and it's a big if) I trusted Washington's med staff to do an evaluation of Isaacs and if they said he was going to be healthy. Isaacs is what we need here; a defensive focused 4/5 who can rim protect and play with Bryant as well as swing over to play with Hachimura/Bertrans and cover for some of their (many) defensive deficiencies. They go for it with Vucevic/Gordon/Beal as a core. The health issue may take it off the radar; I can't judge that well.

I just don't think Orlando would offer this because the team they're left with isn't really much better than our team. So why would Beal stay there?

If Isaac was healthy, that would be a decent offer, but you have a guy coming off a torn ACL, 2 nothings in Fournier and Fultz, and a handful of mid 15-20 1st round picks, for an ALL-NBA player in his prime.

Why wouldn’t Orlando throw that out there?

[NatP4]

Michael Porter Jr is really the only grade A asset I’m seeing in any of these trade proposals. The Minnesota pick is pretty meh with Mobley, Cunningham, Suggs off the board. I would pretty disappointed to end up with Wiseman&Kuminga for Beal. Actually I would probably turn in my wizard fan card after that.

What is the realistic likelihood of trading our pick+Minny pick to get into the top 3? What are the chances that another team steps up on Kuminga/Green and lets Suggs fall to 4?

[nate33]

What is the realistic likelihood of trading our pick+Minny pick to get into the top 3? What are the chances that another team steps up on Kuminga/Green and lets Suggs fall to 4?

We just don't know the answer to that until we see those guys play in G-League.

[NatP4]

What is the realistic likelihood of trading our pick+Minny pick to get into the top 3? What are the chances that another team steps up on Kuminga/Green and lets Suggs fall to 4?

We just don't know the answer to that until we see those guys play in G-League.

I mean, how much are we going to know from 15 G-League games? There is a month and a half until the trade deadline.

Teams are going to be going off of high school footage with those guys.

[NatP4]

There was a report today stating that the Pelicans and Hawks have interest, and that the wizards had a ton of interest in Okongwu on draft night before he went to Atlanta.

[jangles86]

I’m on board with the Golden State package of

Wiseman, Oubre, Minny 1st and anything else that can be thrown in.

I see Wiseman being a top 3 centre in 5 years time.

We add potentially two top 5 picks this year in a very solid draft, possibly adding a Suggs/Cunningham + Green/Kuminga.

And if Minny bottom out completely and get a top 3 pick this year, then we can afford to bottom out again next season and add two more top 5 picks.

So rebuilding this roster into something with top end talent and also building the depth with our previous picks.

Look for a Bryant or Brown Jnr trade to add veteran depth or keep both.
We can look forward to potentially a roster that resembles something along the lines of:

Westbrook/2022 1st
Cunningham/Oubre/Brown Jnr
Kuminga/Avdija
Hachi/Bertans
Wiseman/Bryant

That’s a Uber talented young core with potential to build a new look for this franchise, with a huge amount of cap space going into 2023.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

There was a report today stating that the Pelicans and Hawks have interest, and that the wizards had a ton of interest in Okongwu on draft night before he went to Atlanta.

I don't really see Atlanta as a likely scenario. I suppose I'd consider a deal where we get back Okongwu, Hunter & Reddish.


https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7390801


I just don't really see Atlanta 's motivation for it.