Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Also the implications for this are gonna be far reaching wait till the new CBA comes out and the owners do some drastic **** to stop this and every player stuck in a bad spot can thank Ben Simmons !

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Bro, this is complete nonsense.

It's nonsense that several former NBA players including Kendrick Perkins and others have said on live tv!

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I misread.

Gambit, I agree that owners will definitely try to squash this from happening in the future. Simmons wants to force his way out after having the team fully invest financially in him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Ben is a more valuable and younger player than Bradley Beal.

He can defend Trae Young or someone as tall as Daniel Gafford. He can start or finish fast breaks. His passing is elite. He has ridiculous handles for his height.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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He's physically/athletically gifted, but not nearly as much as Giannis. Even if you say yeah let him play that way, Giannis has had notable struggles and he, despite being a poor shooter, is still lightyears ahead of Simmons. I keep saying that the Giannis and Draymond Green comparisons are lazy because people say neither can shoot which really is a superficial take. Are either good or even average shooters? No, but they can shoot well enough and they actually take attempts.

Draymond Green is a career 32% shooter from three in both the regular season and post season (nearly identical numbers) and is a 70% free throw shooter as well in both the regular season and post season. Giannis is 28% and 27% from three but has hit 30%+ in 3 of his past 4 regular seasons and 2 of his past 3 post seasons. He's admittedly had his ups and down from the line but nothing like we saw from Simmons this post season. So what does that mean? It means they are at least a threat; Simmons has shown nothing thus far to give us the impression that he is or is willing to be with his lack of attempts.

Giannis and Green also have completely different mental makeups from everything I've ever heard about them compared to Simmons. Making this comparison really ignores how bad of a shooter Simmons really is even when comparing him against below average shooters.

Hard to argue with any of this. Simmons is soft-minded during winning time.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How’s this?

Wizards get: Simmons (76ers)
Timberwolves get: Bertans
Magic get: Hachimura
76ers get: Kuzma + Prince (wolves) + Anthony (magic) + 2023 1st (magic from bulls) + 2022 2nd (wolves from wizards)

Works in trade machine. I wouldn’t do it, because the price is too high for us, but throwing it out there…
I think the combined output of Hachimura, Bertans, and Kuzma far outweigh what you get from Simmons.

I give it a resounding YES!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How’s this?

Wizards get: Simmons (76ers)
Timberwolves get: Bertans
Magic get: Hachimura
76ers get: Kuzma + Prince (wolves) + Anthony (magic) + 2023 1st (magic from bulls) + 2022 2nd (wolves from wizards)

Works in trade machine. I wouldn’t do it, because the price is too high for us, but throwing it out there…
I think the combined output of Hachimura, Bertans, and Kuzma far outweigh what you get from Simmons.

The 6ers would need more in win now assets. I don't see Cole Anthony as someone they'd want to target - he has potential, but right now - he's pretty bad. Maxey's much better.

Why not take the Magic out of it, and send Rui to Philly? Or actually keep Rui, and add Avdija to Philly.

No IMO.

Deni is a better prospect than Rui.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked. He's a good enough player to change the calculus. He's also unique enough where a coach needs to be inventive enough to use him in away that exploits his skill set. I'd give up anything on the roster outside of Beal.

And if Beal asks out... Philly is a serious contender who could put together a package of Simmons, Maxey, Thybulle & picks if the Simmons situation is still unresolved at that time.

I would almost rather have Paul Reed than Ben Simmons.

In fact, if Doc Rivers weren't as dense as Scott Brooks he would have already realized Reed is a great player.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked. He's a good enough player to change the calculus. He's also unique enough where a coach needs to be inventive enough to use him in away that exploits his skill set. I'd give up anything on the roster outside of Beal.

And if Beal asks out... Philly is a serious contender who could put together a package of Simmons, Maxey, Thybulle & picks if the Simmons situation is still unresolved at that time.

Correct from start to finish. Except they wouldn't give that much for Beal -- especially if he's asked out.

But, that's not the subject here. Ben Simmons is unbelievably under-valued right now. A couple of weeks ago, I said that I wasn't interested in trading for him, because I didn't want to import the level of conflict he engenders. But, I take it back. In the kind of deals being talked about, Ben is, as Dat puts it, a "steal waiting to happen."

Sheppard has assembled enough assets to steal Simmons.

[gambitx777]

Bro, this is complete nonsense.

It's nonsense that several former NBA players including Kendrick Perkins and others have said on live tv!

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I misread.

Gambit, I agree that owners will definitely try to squash this from happening in the future. Simmons wants to force his way out after having the team fully invest financially in him.

I wouldn't be surprised if they bake in built in suspensions, garuntee reductions or emergency terminations into the next CBA for situations like this.

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[payitforward]

They can't "bake in" anything that the players ass'n won't agree to. The overall situation of the NBA is that everybody gets rich. The owners get rich, & the players get rich.

If the owners need to live with a one-off power move by a guy like Simmons, they'll do it. OTOH, if the players ass'n has to throw Simmons under the bus, they'll do it.

What nobody is going to do is kill the goose that lays golden eggs.

[dangermouse]

Giannis and Green are coachable and have the "heart of a champion."

Ben Simmons strikes me as having the heart of "the guy at the Barbecue who gets tears in his eyes when banter gets directed his way and then fires back with stuff thats over the line and ruins the whole night."

[gambitx777]

They can't "bake in" anything that the players ass'n won't agree to. The overall situation of the NBA is that everybody gets rich. The owners get rich, & the players get rich.

If the owners need to live with a one-off power move by a guy like Simmons, they'll do it. OTOH, if the players ass'n has to throw Simmons under the bus, they'll do it.

What nobody is going to do is kill the goose that lays golden eggs.

You greatly underestimate the egos of people playing in these kinds of tax brackets.

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[pcbothwel]

One thing to keep in mind is that if Simmons doesn't show up at training camp, Simmons doesn't get paid. If Simmons doesn't get paid, his agent doesn't get paid. It's not like he & his agent are holding all the cards.

That said, who the h#ll knows how this will work out!

Ben Simmons is due 50% of his salary for the league year by October 1st.

He was already paid $8.5 million in July, and he has another payment due in a few days.

"Is Due" is the key word. Philly isnt paying him a damn thing. They'll take him to arbitration and draw this out until he is traded

Why do people keep saying this? What indication is there about his value being low and him being a "steal"? Because all the facts point in the other direction:
1) Simmons is 25 and locked up for 4 more years
2) Rich Paul has said he'll play for ANY other team
3) Morey is unfazed by the optics and impact on culture... He will hold out until he gets value.

No matter what YOU think his value is, below average teams in below average markets trying to make the leap will set the floor for his offer.
Kings, Spurs, Cavs, Hawks, Blazers, OKC etc. All teams that could use him and have trouble getting Free agents. They will set the floor high enough that anything other than Beal will make it all but impossible to get him.

A deal would have been done already if a blue chip option available. Teams know what's going on. Why offer your best asset when the player publicly wants out? He won't even report or meet with teammates. There's no Fox or Haliburton, Edwards or even DRussell. No Lillard, who knows on McCollum. Sexton doesn't seem to move the needle for them. D. Murray? I could see them settling for that. Maybe you throw Brogdon in there too.

Its been widely reported that McCollum, Covington, and picks have been offered by PDX. So thats the floor right now. Im also pretty sure that the Spurs have a decent package led by Dejonte Murray + Keldon Johnson.
Again, I dont see how Rui, Bertans, filler, pick gets it anywhere close.

[Dat2U]

One thing to keep in mind is that if Simmons doesn't show up at training camp, Simmons doesn't get paid. If Simmons doesn't get paid, his agent doesn't get paid. It's not like he & his agent are holding all the cards.

That said, who the h#ll knows how this will work out!

Ben Simmons is due 50% of his salary for the league year by October 1st.

He was already paid $8.5 million in July, and he has another payment due in a few days.

"Is Due" is the key word. Philly isnt paying him a damn thing. They'll take him to arbitration and draw this out until he is traded

Why do people keep saying this? What indication is there about his value being low and him being a "steal"? Because all the facts point in the other direction:
1) Simmons is 25 and locked up for 4 more years
2) Rich Paul has said he'll play for ANY other team
3) Morey is unfazed by the optics and impact on culture... He will hold out until he gets value.

No matter what YOU think his value is, below average teams in below average markets trying to make the leap will set the floor for his offer.
Kings, Spurs, Cavs, Hawks, Blazers, OKC etc. All teams that could use him and have trouble getting Free agents. They will set the floor high enough that anything other than Beal will make it all but impossible to get him.

A deal would have been done already if a blue chip option available. Teams know what's going on. Why offer your best asset when the player publicly wants out? He won't even report or meet with teammates. There's no Fox or Haliburton, Edwards or even DRussell. No Lillard, who knows on McCollum. Sexton doesn't seem to move the needle for them. D. Murray? I could see them settling for that. Maybe you throw Brogdon in there too.

Its been widely reported that McCollum, Covington, and picks have been offered by PDX. So thats the floor right now. Im also pretty sure that the Spurs have a decent package led by Dejonte Murray + Keldon Johnson.
Again, I dont see how Rui, Bertans, filler, pick gets it anywhere close.

Are we sure SA is offering Keldon? D. Murray is a solid defensive PG as is still young but he isn't helping the spacing for Embiid.

[queridiculo]

"Is Due" is the key word. Philly isnt paying him a damn thing. They'll take him to arbitration and draw this out until he is traded.

Show me the provision under which they would be able to withhold the second part of the payment.

Per CBA they can fine him for missed practices and 1/145th of his base compensation for each exhibition, regular season game or playoff game.

The 76ers are starting camp out today and have their first preseason game October 5th.

That’s a max 4 practices missed before he is die another $8.5 million,and based on the CBA I don’t see what Philadelphia can do but fine him for missed practices up until that point.

[payitforward]

They can simply not pay him. If he wants to take them to court, we can see how this adjudicates. The answer won't be simple.

&, here too, we get into the business of "killing the goose that lays the golden eggs." I wouldn't call this a scenario with a big upside for the players' association, would you? The guy has said, "I will never play for you again." Only... I still want my $33m? I don't think so.

[payitforward]

Meanwhile, I'm sure there's plenty of conversation about the financial aspect of this going on behind closed doors.

[Dat2U]

Kyrie anyone? Lol

[nate33]

Kyrie anyone? Lol

It's weird. I think he is better than ever as a player, particularly when in a role of SG rather than PG. But he is also worse than ever as a locker room disruption. You never know if that guy is going to show up to play or not. It's always something with him.

[payitforward]

Kyrie anyone? Lol

It's weird. I think he is better than ever as a player, particularly when in a role of SG rather than PG. But he is also worse than ever as a locker room disruption. You never know if that guy is going to show up to play or not. It's always something with him.

You got me thinking about the entertainment value of having Kyrie & Ben Simmons on the same team....

Hmmm... what would be the "all-PITA" NBA team? 3d guy might be Draymond? Who else...?

[dckingsfan]

They can simply not pay him. If he wants to take them to court, we can see how this adjudicates. The answer won't be simple.

&, here too, we get into the business of "killing the goose that lays the golden eggs." I wouldn't call this a scenario with a big upside for the players' association, would you? The guy has said, "I will never play for you again." Only... I still want my $33m? I don't think so.

With respect, I think it would be the players union that would take Philly to court. And that would be material.