Justin Champagnie, & it's about time!

[AFM]

plot twist: player B is Deni Avdija!!!!!!!!!

[nate33]

I'm a big fan of Player B too. But I'd need to see it for a full season as a starter in meaningful games before I believe much of it. I really don't think you are properly weighing the fact that there is no Scouting Report out on Champagnie, whereas Deni was the second highest usage guy on the roster for 2/3rds of the season.

And none of this factors defense. Champagnie is solid defensively, but undersized.

[payitforward]

Sure! None of this is meant to be sculpted in marble & displayed in the main hall! Nor is there any particular reason to pick player A (Deni) as a point of comparison for player B (Justin). It's just useful rhetorical framing to make my point. But the point is still a good one -- with whatever reserve, the only judgment to make about Justin Champagnie is that he's been absolutely terrific!

Of course, let's see him maintain his performance level next year when word gets around that "hey... this kid can play." I feel pretty sanguine about that to tell the truth. At least partly b/c his twin brother is demonstrating more or less the same good stuff. All the same... we'll see!

[Kanyewest]

On the season, here are two players' per 40-minute numbers:

Points -
A: 20.3
B: 14.6

FGAs
A: 14.1
B: 11

FTAs
A: 6.2
B: 2

TS% -
A: 60.5%
B: 61.4%

Defensive Rebounds
A: 6.9
B: 6.4

Offensive Rebounds
A: 1.8
B: 3.0

Assists
A: 4.7
B: 1.6

Turnovers
A: 3.3
B: 1.5

Blocks
A: .6
B: 1

Steals
A: 1.2
B: 1.7

Fouls
A: 2.8
B: 3.0

Who had the better season -- i.e. whose numbers helped his team more?

For me, a slight preference towards player A. The slightly higher volume with a slightly lower TS% is a little bit more impressive along with the added playmaking- granted there are more turnovers but player A has a better assist to turnover ration.

The big thing though is that Hart is 2nd in the league in minutes played and leader in minutes per game. Maybe Champagnie could do that if given more playing but nonetheless Hart has shown that he can remain healthy when given that workload. But nonetheless, maybe Chamagnie can improve even more like Hart has.

[doclinkin]

I'm a big fan of Player B too. But I'd need to see it for a full season as a starter in meaningful games before I believe much of it. I really don't think you are properly weighing the fact that there is no Scouting Report out on Champagnie, whereas Deni was the second highest usage guy on the roster for 2/3rds of the season.

And none of this factors defense. Champagnie is solid defensively, but undersized.

I just find it amusing that Nate has Adija’s stats memorized to where he immediately knew who the comparison was.

[nate33]

I'm a big fan of Player B too. But I'd need to see it for a full season as a starter in meaningful games before I believe much of it. I really don't think you are properly weighing the fact that there is no Scouting Report out on Champagnie, where as Deni was the second highest usage guy on the roster for 2/3rds of the season.

And none of this factors defense. Champagnie is solid defensively, but undersized.

I just find it amusing that Nate has Adija’s stats memorized to where he immediately knew who the comparison was.

I just suspected that PIF would make the comparison so it's the first player I thought of. Then I saw the high assists, high FTA rate, and relatively high turnovers and I knew it had to be Deni.

[DCZards]

I'm a big fan of Player B too. But I'd need to see it for a full season as a starter in meaningful games before I believe much of it. I really don't think you are properly weighing the fact that there is no Scouting Report out on Champagnie, where as Deni was the second highest usage guy on the roster for 2/3rds of the season.

And none of this factors defense. Champagnie is solid defensively, but undersized.

I just find it amusing that Nate has Adija’s stats memorized to where he immediately knew who the comparison was.

I just suspected that PIF would make the comparison so it's the first player I thought of. Then I saw the high assists, high FTA rate, and relatively high turnovers and I knew it had to be Deni.

Are you suggesting that PIF is predictable.

[payitforward]

Just like the sun, I rise every day!

&... just as nate figured out immediately that it was Deni & Justin in my comparo, so too I created the whole thing for the sole purpose of jawing w/ nate!! (who should know by now that I have the highest possible opinion of his basketball acumen -- despite a few mistaken idées fixes he carries with him for no good reason).

[AFM]

I was honestly kidding about it being Deni, I thought it was Josh Hart, that's hilarious

[dckingsfan]

I'm a big fan of Player B too. But I'd need to see it for a full season as a starter in meaningful games before I believe much of it. I really don't think you are properly weighing the fact that there is no Scouting Report out on Champagnie, where as Deni was the second highest usage guy on the roster for 2/3rds of the season.

And none of this factors defense. Champagnie is solid defensively, but undersized.

I just find it amusing that Nate has Adija’s stats memorized to where he immediately knew who the comparison was.

I just suspected that PIF would make the comparison so it's the first player I thought of. Then I saw the high assists, high FTA rate, and relatively high turnovers and I knew it had to be Deni.

This. Deni cuts down on the TOs and it isn't even a comparison between like players.

[payitforward]

I didn't make the comparison chart as a claim that Champagnie is as good an NBA player as Deni Avdija. I made it to demonstrate just how good Justin is.

Based on his '24-25 performance, Justin Champagnie is a very strong NBA wing, an extremely good player, a guy who (given his play, age & salary) should be a part of our core through the rebuild.

[AFM]

I didn't make the comparison chart as a claim that Champagnie is as good an NBA player as Deni Avdija. I made it to demonstrate just how good Justin is.

Based on his '24-25 performance, Justin Champagnie is a very strong NBA wing, an extremely good player, a guy who (given his play, age & salary) should be a part of our core through the rebuild.

Absolutely. Nate, is it true only 1.8M of his contract is guaranteed?? Dude needs a new agent

[nate33]

I didn't make the comparison chart as a claim that Champagnie is as good an NBA player as Deni Avdija. I made it to demonstrate just how good Justin is.

Based on his '24-25 performance, Justin Champagnie is a very strong NBA wing, an extremely good player, a guy who (given his play, age & salary) should be a part of our core through the rebuild.

Absolutely. Nate, is it true only 1.8M of his contract is guaranteed?? Dude needs a new agent

Yeah, we have him locked up for 3 more years. Each year is at just the minimum contract salary, and each year we have the option to cut him without paying him. It's literally the worst (for him) contract he could possibly sign.

[DCZards]

I didn't make the comparison chart as a claim that Champagnie is as good an NBA player as Deni Avdija. I made it to demonstrate just how good Justin is.

Based on his '24-25 performance, Justin Champagnie is a very strong NBA wing, an extremely good player, a guy who (given his play, age & salary) should be a part of our core through the rebuild.

Absolutely. Nate, is it true only 1.8M of his contract is guaranteed?? Dude needs a new agent

Yeah, we have him locked up for 3 more years. Each year is at just the minimum contract salary, and each year we have the option to cut him without paying him. It's literally the worst (for him) contract he could possibly sign.

Yeah…JC is grossly underpaid. Zards need to tear that contract up and give him a pay raise.

[payitforward]

TBH, I imagine they will.
Yet... for now, it's more $$ than he's ever had... by a lot!

[payitforward]

...
Justin is legitimately good in every category. He's a great SF rebounder.

Definitely keep him.

I would actually give him even higher praise: based on his '24-25 numbers Justin Champagnie is among the 20 best SFs in the league.

I've already compared his numbers to those of Deni Avdija. Now let's compare them with a player around whom there isn't as much emotion -- Josh Hart.

Compare the two guys here --

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=champju01&year_min=2025&player_id1=hartjo01&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_id=hartjo01&utm_source=bbr&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_medium=sr_xsite

Overall, the two guys put up very similar numbers, with Champagnie a little better across the board except for assists, where Hart closes the gap.

To me, Josh Hart pretty much defines the concept of "elite role player," & that's where I put Champagnie as well. Like Hart, Justin Champagnie would be a very high quality starter on a team that goes deep into the playoffs. He's part of our core -- I hope he's a Wizard his whole career!

[payitforward]

nate has made the following comment & may make a similar one in response to the above

... I'd need to see it for a full season as a starter in meaningful games ....

Sure! That's what we'd all need -- & want!

To put it slightly differently, Justin's productivity has been an extraordinarily positive thing! & a surprise! Obviously, we'd all be delighted if this level was where he established himself in the league -- may it be so!

[nate33]

...
Justin is legitimately good in every category. He's a great SF rebounder.

Definitely keep him.

I would actually give him even higher praise: based on his '24-25 numbers Justin Champagnie is among the 20 best SFs in the league.

I've already compared his numbers to those of Deni Avdija. Now let's compare them with a player around whom there isn't as much emotion -- Josh Hart.

Compare the two guys here --

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=champju01&year_min=2025&player_id1=hartjo01&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_id=hartjo01&utm_source=bbr&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_medium=sr_xsite

Overall, the two guys put up very similar numbers, with Champagnie a little better across the board except for assists, where Hart closes the gap.

To me, Josh Hart pretty much defines the concept of "elite role player," & that's where I put Champagnie as well. Like Hart, Justin Champagnie would be a very high quality starter on a team that goes deep into the playoffs. He's part of our core -- I hope he's a Wizard his whole career!

Josh Hart is a really good comparison. Both guys are undersized, built more like SG's than SF's, but both guys rebound like PF's. Neither guy is really a shot creator, but they somehow manage to score at a pretty good clip within the confines of the offense. And to be honest, I'd much rather have Champagnie's 38% shooting from 3 over Hart's superior passing. Hart's poor 3-ball is really holding back New York's offense in the playoffs because teams feel comfortable putting their center on Hart and having that center cheat in the lane to jam up Brunson/Towns P&R actions.

The big question about Champagnie is, how much of this is real? Can he post these numbers against starters with a scouting report against him? We shall see.

EDIT: I just looked up Champagnie's measurements and he's not quite as small as I thought. He' is 6'-5.75" barefoot so he is legitimately listed as 6'-7" in shoes. And he has a 6'-9.5" wingspan. (Hart actually is small. Just 6'-3.75" without shoes and a 6'-8.25" wingspan.)

[payitforward]

Absolutely!
As with much else in life, all one can say is "so far so good!"

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

...
Justin is legitimately good in every category. He's a great SF rebounder.

Definitely keep him.

I would actually give him even higher praise: based on his '24-25 numbers Justin Champagnie is among the 20 best SFs in the league.

I've already compared his numbers to those of Deni Avdija. Now let's compare them with a player around whom there isn't as much emotion -- Josh Hart.

Compare the two guys here --

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=champju01&year_min=2025&player_id1=hartjo01&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_id=hartjo01&utm_source=bbr&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_medium=sr_xsite

Overall, the two guys put up very similar numbers, with Champagnie a little better across the board except for assists, where Hart closes the gap.

To me, Josh Hart pretty much defines the concept of "elite role player," & that's where I put Champagnie as well. Like Hart, Justin Champagnie would be a very high quality starter on a team that goes deep into the playoffs. He's part of our core -- I hope he's a Wizard his whole career!

Josh Hart is a really good comparison. Both guys are undersized, built more like SG's than SF's, but both guys rebound like PF's. Neither guy is really a shot creator, but they somehow manage to score at a pretty good clip within the confines of the offense. And to be honest, I'd much rather have Champagnie's 38% shooting from 3 over Hart's superior passing. Hart's poor 3-ball is really holding back New York's offense in the playoffs because teams feel comfortable putting their center on Hart and having that center cheat in the lane to jam up Brunson/Towns P&R actions.

The big question about Champagnie is, how much of this is real? Can he post these numbers against starters with a scouting report against him? We shall see.

EDIT: I just looked up Champagnie's measurements and he's not quite as small as I thought. He' is 6'-5.75" barefoot so he is legitimately listed as 6'-7" in shoes. And he has a 6'-9.5" wingspan. (Hart actually is small. Just 6'-3.75" without shoes and a 6'-8.25" wingspan.)

https://www.tankathon.com/players/nique-clifford

If the draft has another player more similar to Justin Champagnie, I'd like to see him.

If I were coaching, I would start him and Justin because they're both + rebounders at SG and SF.

If Coulibaly and George are so good let them prove it.