The Tank Watch has expired. Time to cheer to win again!

[truwizfan4evr]

No way Ernie passing up on Barnes that's his kind of player. I think we all know that as well we just in denial. I hope there's away that we cant get Barnes but he is a Ernie type guy and are best bet is to get a top 3 pick that would insure us of not getting Barnes.

[queridiculo]

Whats funny after GS lost the let out confetti are you kidding me? lol

Haha, what a slap in the face when you're watching this as a Jazz fan.

[The Consiglieri]

I'd trade down. If it had to be one or the other I think I'd choose barnes.

Don't worry. After the workouts and measurements, Drummond will move back up into the top 3 on the list. GM's can't help themselves. NCAA production doesn't matter. Wingspan and jumping ability is where it's at.

His numbers do stink, except on the defensive end, but he was the #1 rated prospect last summer for a reason. He wouldn't be a disaster as a pick, as he can honestly make a claim that he might be the best player out of this draft five years from now, he'd just be a real bad pick for us. We have spent years emptying the team of cancers, and me first guys, and it doesnt make sense to take a guy who would hurt the culture change were trying to achieve, especially when 4 of the top 5 guys have exactly the right mental make up for what we are trying to accomplish right now, that match of fantastic BBIQ/work habits/motor/coachability with genuine talent and quality upside and a need being fit (well at least with 3 of the 4) just makes MUCH MUCH more sense than Drummond, even with all his massive upside.

At the end of the day, there's a 90% chance that we'll be in a slot where we can avoid the Drummond worry all together (and remember, if we're lottery screwed, its not unreasonable to imagine that another team may value Drummond over Robinson or Beal, not MKG or Davis though), although I will admit, that between Robinson and Drummond, it would be a very, very, very hard decision for me to make, as I think Drummond would probably make more sense in that scenario.

[The Consiglieri]

No way Ernie passing up on Barnes that's his kind of player. I think we all know that as well we just in denial. I hope there's away that we cant get Barnes but he is a Ernie type guy and are best bet is to get a top 3 pick that would insure us of not getting Barnes.

All Ford's contacts seem to suggest that our big 4 are: Davis, MKG/Beal/Drummond.

Barnes doesnt appear to be in our big 4 at all. Not really sure about Drummond, rumors going both ways on him, but it definitely appears as if Robinson and Barnes are not in our big 4.

[The Consiglieri]

Whats funny after GS lost the let out confetti are you kidding me? lol

Haha, what a slap in the face when you're watching this as a Jazz fan.

The funny thing is that unless they jump into the top 3, the odds are they wont pick at 7 anyway, they'll fall, in which case they aren't getting the pick. To me, they'd need to lock in at bottom 5 pre-lottery to really have a reasonable chance of staying in the safety zone where they can keep their pick.

[The Consiglieri]

so nice to be able to cheer for a win without worrying about the consequences

let's win out

You have been able to do that for at least the last two games. All you had to believe was that push come to shove, the Wiz would lose the last game if they had to.

Now the games mean a bit more. Now if they lose we have no excuse.

Masterfully designed tank by Ted/EG/Flip/Randy.

I don't know, I would never put it past us to do something incredibly idiotic. I really, really, really appreciated the help to the 2 slot.

[dlts20]

Why is everyone so against Barnes? Definetly not my 1st choice but Ill easily take him at 5. Might even take him at 4. Again, I dont think none of the bigs make us better besides Davis. I still dont even want Davis to be honest because I think we need the wings more but I wouldnt be upset if we took Davis. After that its MGK-Beal (in which ever order although I probably lean more to Beal because we need shooters), and then Barnes.

Im taking Barnes at 4. Again, I never bought into his hype coming out of HS when everyone was comparing him to Lebron. I never saw that explosion or "it" factor. However, I still think he may have some of that Rudy Gay in him. A guy who never lived up to the hype in College and played more like a role player but he had a pro game. I could easily see Barnes being better as a pro. I see Barnes as actually being a combination of Beal & MKG but just not as good as eitehr.

Still, he has the size & ability of MKG with the stroke of Beal. Ill take that over Drummond, Robinson, Sullinger, or whoever. He'll fit great next to Wall and I still say we need a 2 & a 3 way more then we need a big. Im not just saying take need over talent eitehr. I just dont see those bigs as being special or not as good as Barnes except Davis

[The Consiglieri]

If Barnes were any of those things, eh would have shown it. He isn't. Barnes would be a fine choice if we'd won 25+ games and were picking 7-11, at top 4, maybe 5, he just doesn't make sense. He doesn't have the ability or MKG, nor the motor, leadership, or desire of the kid, and he doesn't have the fire, energy, or impose your will alpha dog style of MKG, or Beal.

He can shoot, and that's about it. He vanished consistently when it mattered most for UNC, and was typically far less vital to their cause than Zeller, Henson or Marshall. He was a colossal disapointment. I dont see him being a bust, but he will never be very good or great either.

Lots and lots and lots of guys I'd take over him including Drummond (has the raw ability to be the best player from this draft down the line, or could bust), PJ3 (also has that raw ability, but like Barnes, plays passive, beta basketball, and was also in the wrong system and position), Robinson (lock to be an 18-9 guy at the next level, and a leader, lead a vastly inferior Kansas team to the title while UNC disappointed yet again with Barnes), and then there are other options with plenty of raw ability that I'd take before him. Id definitely trade down before I'd take Barnes. Plenty of good shooters and solid bigs in this draft, why force a Barnes pick when you can get a guy of similar ability but with more potential and upside, and get an extra #1 for your trouble?

[dlts20]

If Barnes were any of those things, eh would have shown it. He isn't. Barnes would be a fine choice if we'd won 25+ games and were picking 7-11, at top 4, maybe 5, he just doesn't make sense. He doesn't have the ability or MKG, nor the motor, leadership, or desire of the kid, and he doesn't have the fire, energy, or impose your will alpha dog style of MKG, or Beal.

He can shoot, and that's about it. He vanished consistently when it mattered most for UNC, and was typically far less vital to their cause than Zeller, Henson or Marshall. He was a colossal disapointment. I dont see him being a bust, but he will never be very good or great either.

Lots and lots and lots of guys I'd take over him including Drummond (has the raw ability to be the best player from this draft down the line, or could bust), PJ3 (also has that raw ability, but like Barnes, plays passive, beta basketball, and was also in the wrong system and position), Robinson (lock to be an 18-9 guy at the next level, and a leader, lead a vastly inferior Kansas team to the title while UNC disappointed yet again with Barnes), and then there are other options with plenty of raw ability that I'd take before him. Id definitely trade down before I'd take Barnes. Plenty of good shooters and solid bigs in this draft, why force a Barnes pick when you can get a guy of similar ability but with more potential and upside, and get an extra #1 for your trouble?

well, Ill defer to you because I havent watched as much college ball the last couple of years and everything you said about Barnes is true but I just dont know if those otehr bigs will be better then our bigs we already have and even though Barnes is as you say, something tells me that he just may have that Rudy Gay in him. IDK why but I just see a similarity. Everyone felt the same way about him also.

You could throw PJ3 in that mix but he's been way too non existent for me. Also, the thing about Barnes is that while I dont think he has star potential, I just think he's a good fit for what we need. Its like you dont always need to be a star. You can be a good role player like a Tayshon Prince or something like that. He was a perfect fit for Detroit. A bit of a role player but a top notch role player that can really help you win and get to the next level. I could see that from Barnes. Now that may not be what you want at 4 or 5 but its not bad.

Also, I didnt truly mean I would take him at 4. I meant that I like those other 3 guys and then Barnes next. Meaning I would probably try to trade down and pick him up at 7 or whever people think he might go. Honestly, Ill get killed on every Wiz board but I like our bigs and I think Dray will be back motivated & in shape so much that if we got the 1st pick, I would also trade that to move down and draft Beal or MKG to go along with the other things we would get in the trade

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Not sure why people are so happy, we're assured of a top-5 pick in a 4-player draft, and we're the Wizards. You know what that means.

I'm not picking Drummond or Barnes at 5. First thing I try and do is trade down. If that fails I'd take a flyer on Sullinger, Zeller, or possibly PJIII if it looks like he could play the 3.

I don't think it is a 4-player draft.

I think conventional draft wisdom is usually group think, and this season will be no different. Everybody knows Davis is the best player. After that, who really knows? Robinson, Beal, and MKG are absolute stud talents for sure, Mr. Grundle. However, I can give you some arguments why other players might be better.

Robinson is a great rebounder. Yet, someone like John Henson of North Carolina nearly matched him on a per-minute basis. Henson's a shot blocker and a much better defender. Right now, people aren't rating Henson all that high. Yet, as a starting PF is there any prospect who ranks higher defensively than Henson? Thomas Robinson is already 21 years old. Henson is still 19 and won't turn 20 until around 2013 (actually 12/28). I think Henson could end up being a better pro than Robinson. Nobody else has said that. As much as I love Tyler Zeller, John Henson might grade out better in the long run.

I'm not so sure this is a four-player draft. I think YODA (Nivek's rating system) is 100% correct about how good Jae Crowder is. Draft express and the other mocks are wrong. He's going to be an instant success in the NBA. Crowder will easily transition to SF. If the Wizards draft him he's a day-1 starter and a 10-yr pro. He's more ready to contribute than Beal or MKG.

There are two other players who I rate as ready to contribute right away, even more that Beal or MKG. One is Marcus Denmon. Another is Damian Lillard. Their question marks will be defensively. Both can score.

I mentioned Tyler Zeller. I think he's a better overall prospect than Thomas Robinson because he runs the court and finishes at 7 feet tall. I see a lot of Pau Gasol in Zeller.

I don't think Will Barton belongs in the top-5, but I have a hard time seeing anyone other than MAYBE Beal being a better SG prospect. Rebounding and passing with efficiency are hard to beat.

This draft is very intriguing. I need to learn more about Mitchell, Harkless, and Waiters.

I'm also interested to see how some of the SF/PF tweeners do. Terrence Jones, Royce White, Draymond Green, Kevin Jones, and even Mike Scott fit that category.

The Wizards just need to chose solid players who are winners. Hopefully, they add some guys who can shoot (like a Jenkins from Vandy) or some rebounders.

[nate33]

No way Ernie passing up on Barnes that's his kind of player. I think we all know that as well we just in denial. I hope there's away that we cant get Barnes but he is a Ernie type guy and are best bet is to get a top 3 pick that would insure us of not getting Barnes.

I just don't understand why people say stuff like this. Whatever the worst perceived outcome, there's always someone who says, "EG is just the type of GM that would do that".

Why on Earth do you have this perception? What makes you think EG is the type to draft a safe, low-ceiling, high-floor player like Barnes? Just about every pick he has made in his tenure with the Wizards has been a "swing for the fences" high-risk, high-reward pick.

[dlts20]

Not sure why people are so happy, we're assured of a top-5 pick in a 4-player draft, and we're the Wizards. You know what that means.

I'm not picking Drummond or Barnes at 5. First thing I try and do is trade down. If that fails I'd take a flyer on Sullinger, Zeller, or possibly PJIII if it looks like he could play the 3.

well I dont think its happened many times if ever that 3 teams jumped ahead of the worst team in the league so I think most figure even though it goes to 5, we will most likely get a top 4 pick

[doclinkin]

Yet, someone like John Henson of North Carolina nearly matched him on a per-minute basis. Henson's a shot blocker and a much better defender. Right now, people aren't rating Henson all that high. Yet, as a starting PF is there any prospect who rights higher defensively than Henson? Thomas Robinson is already 21 years old. Henson is still 19 and won't turn 20 until around 2013 (actually 12/28). I think Henson could end up being a better pro than Robinson. Nobody else has said that. As much as I love Tyler Zeller, John Henson might grade out better in the long run.

Yeah he's been on my radar for a while. Liked him last year, and knew he'd improve. I think he's underrated in part because he's got a BJ Armstrong baby face and long lean arms that belie his lower body strength. I think he'll prove to be one of the better defensive players in the draft. Not quite the hustler that Robinson will be, and I like TRob's chances to develop a complete face-up game, but I can see Henson on a championship team. Not flashy, just right.

Put simply, he could play for the Spurs.

[Ruzious]

Yet, someone like John Henson of North Carolina nearly matched him on a per-minute basis. Henson's a shot blocker and a much better defender. Right now, people aren't rating Henson all that high. Yet, as a starting PF is there any prospect who rights higher defensively than Henson? Thomas Robinson is already 21 years old. Henson is still 19 and won't turn 20 until around 2013 (actually 12/28). I think Henson could end up being a better pro than Robinson. Nobody else has said that. As much as I love Tyler Zeller, John Henson might grade out better in the long run.

Yeah he's been on my radar for a while. Liked him last year, and knew he'd improve. I think he's underrated in part because he's got a BJ Armstrong baby face and long lean arms that bely his lower body strength. I think he'll prove to be one of the better defensive players in the draft. Not quite the hustler that Robinson will be, and I like TRob's chances to develop a complete face-up game, but I can see Henson on a championship team. Not flashy, just right.

Put simply, he could play for the Spurs.

Yeah, Henson and TyZ are both such fascinating players. Are their lack of bulk/strength going to stop them from being real good in the NBA? I believe UNC was the top rebounding differential team (at least at one point during the season) in the NCAA this season, so at the college level - their lack o bulk hasn't stopped them from being outstanding rebounders - particularly Henson. Henson's got to drastically improve his FT shooting. I really think he has untapped scoring ability - his legs are so long and quick that he can get from beyond the foul line to the basket as quick as anyone. This past season, he developed a little post-up shot from 15 feet (Elvin Hayes turnaround jumper) and developed the ability to finish with his left hand. If he works on his game, he can become the 2nd best player in this draft. If he doesn't, he'll be an ordinary NBA player who gets pushed around too much.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah he's been on my radar for a while. Liked him last year, and knew he'd improve. I think he's underrated in part because he's got a BJ Armstrong baby face and long lean arms that bely his lower body strength. I think he'll prove to be one of the better defensive players in the draft. Not quite the hustler that Robinson will be, and I like TRob's chances to develop a complete face-up game, but I can see Henson on a championship team. Not flashy, just right.

Put simply, he could play for the Spurs.

doc, I would like to see the Wizards continue to make even more moves like the Spurs. They went after former Spurs Alonzo Gee and Larry Owens, and they've also been getting good international and D-League players. I agree with you that Henson is the type player who ends up on championship teams.

Yeah, Henson and TyZ are both such fascinating players. Are their lack of bulk/strength going to stop them from being real good in the NBA? I believe UNC was the top rebounding differential team (at least at one point during the season) in the NCAA this season, so at the college level - their lack o bulk hasn't stopped them from being outstanding rebounders - particularly Henson. Henson's got to drastically improve his FT shooting. I really think he has untapped scoring ability - his legs are so long and quick that he can get from beyond the foul line to the basket as quick as anyone. This past season, he developed a little post-up shot from 15 feet (Elvin Hayes turnaround jumper) and developed the ability to finish with his left hand. If he works on his game, he can become the 2nd best player in this draft. If he doesn't, he'll be an ordinary NBA player who gets pushed around too much.

I think Henson could have benefitted from staying in school yet another year. i don't think his draft stock would have gone lower, like Sullinger's. Zeller improved his stock and I think Henson would have, too. On paper, I can't see why Drummond is rated higher than Henson. That said, he's going to be drafted in the top-10 this season. No reason to risk slipping in the draft or the risk another injury. He did get hurt late this season.

Henson could have stayed at UNC and benefitted simply from increased minutes and FGAs. If he added an improved touch that would make him much more NBA-ready.

As you say, Ruz, Henson will need to shoot better and hold position at the next level. He would be a much more game-ready player with one more year in the weight room.

[queridiculo]

The funny thing is that unless they jump into the top 3, the odds are they wont pick at 7 anyway, they'll fall, in which case they aren't getting the pick. To me, they'd need to lock in at bottom 5 pre-lottery to really have a reasonable chance of staying in the safety zone where they can keep their pick.

Actually it's a bit more intricate.

If the Warriors finish with the 7th worst record, they have a 60% chance of landing the 7th pick even if they don't move up into the top 3. If they finish 8th, the Jazz have a choice between 8 and 11 locked up as long as the Warriors don't win the lottery.

[The Consiglieri]

The funny thing is that unless they jump into the top 3, the odds are they wont pick at 7 anyway, they'll fall, in which case they aren't getting the pick. To me, they'd need to lock in at bottom 5 pre-lottery to really have a reasonable chance of staying in the safety zone where they can keep their pick.

Actually it's a bit more intricate.

If the Warriors finish with the 7th worst record, they have a 60% chance of landing the 7th pick even if they don't move up into the top 3. If they finish 8th, the Jazz have a choice between 8 and 11 locked up as long as the Warriors don't win the lottery.

Thanks for the heads up. It explains things a little better. They have a little better than a coin flips chance of not being completely screwed. And considering the Warriors are like are idiot brothers to the west (and considering I lived 5 minutes from the arena for 5 years, I should know ), i have a lot of empathy for them and hope they don't get hosed.

[hands11]

This Cleveland win was nice but it didnt feel as good as the previous 4. Cleveland is tanking and Miami will be getting ready for the playoffs. The win tonight is good and they should try hard to win tomorrow night, but I feel a little jipped. I wanted to see them have a chance to beat Miami when it meant something.

Well, we made it through a year that was what a lot of us thought they should do. Tank in the strike shortened year so we can get to the next stage of the rebuild. It was actually encouraging and entertaining given the macro plan. It was as a good as I could have wished for. Tank loses, talent development, low IQ players moved and we added a big piece in Nene.

Pretty much the perfect take and rebuild moves.

Can't wait to see who they draft. I am going to start looking into ticket packages while the getting is good. Next year is going to be a lot of fun.

[7-Day Dray]

Remember last year when Raptors fans were trolling our board at the end of the season bragging about how they outtanked us? Now we're a step ahead of them and they're in danger into falling to 8th in the lottery race if they win tonight. LOL stupid trolls.

[gesa2]

Remember last year when Raptors fans were trolling our board at the end of the season bragging about how they outtanked us? Now we're a step ahead of them and they're in danger into falling to 8th in the lottery race if they win tonight. LOL stupid trolls.

Not to defend the trolls in any way, but Toronto's superior tank last year netted them what may turn out to be the second best player in that draft, Valanciunas.