Political Roundtable Part XXXI

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Just absolutely insane.

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Wow. That’s a new one. The only exception is not for rape or incest but for someone sentenced to the death penalty.

[Zonkerbl]

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[montestewart]

Just absolutely insane.

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Wow. That’s a new one. The only exception is not for rape or incest but for someone sentenced to the death penalty.

I read that as a capital case carve out exception to the “life inviolate” rule, and reads as a last minute add on when they realized the wording could be construed as banning the death penalty. There are endless and relentlessly contradictory ironies from the GOP regarding the sanctity of life, driven by partisan propaganda and aloof self righteousness. Atheist conservatives I know couldn’t care less other than it’s a win against libs

[montestewart]

Waiting for the Rosemary’s Baby abortion case to Photoshop fundamentalist ideology. The rainbow of waffling and rationalization will be epic.

[Zonkerbl]

"This imaginary baby has all the rights of an actual person unless they murder someone."

[Pointgod]

"This imaginary baby has all the rights of an actual person unless they murder someone."

Yet you won’t see the right making the argument that child support starts at conception or that someone is a U.S. citizen because they were conceived in the U.S.

[montestewart]

"This imaginary baby has all the rights of an actual person unless they murder someone."

Yet you won’t see the right making the argument that child support starts at conception or that someone is a U.S. citizen because they were conceived in the U.S.

You might see right wing politicians and pundits, in authentic or feigned sincerity, offer up the idea of treating fetuses as 3/5 a person for the purposes of congressional districting. Also look for legislation proposals for banning speech advocating abortion, and promoting religion-infused “pro-child” proposals that will infringe on the parental rights of both the parents of teen mothers and the teen mothers themselves.

Right wingers are falling all over each other to be the first to propose a particularly draconian measure. Who will be the first with “make the mother give birth, then execute her” legislation?

[Zonkerbl]

you laugh but they've already proposed to ban speech that advertises abortion services out of state.

[montestewart]

Not to change the subject, but the Secret Service inability to locate January 6 text messages in their Rose Mary Woods Archives should be cause for alarm from the Biden camp. If the Secret Service became seduced, corrupted, and compromised by Trumpism, the President is in mortal danger from those with the greatest access to him. If there’s not a major purge, they will go in the direction of palace guards, loyal to a person rather than to the office, further eroding democracy.

Technically not treason, but definitely treason. Trump certainly inspires treasonous passions among his true believers.

[Zonkerbl]

Don't worry, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Yeah I think everyone in the Secret Service should be fired and everyone currently on the roster blacklisted forever. Problem is, then what do you do? The reason SS are all fascist Trump supporters is they're all cops. So if you hire a bunch of new SS they're all going to be just as treasonous as the ones you just fired.

[verbal8]

Don't worry, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Yeah I think everyone in the Secret Service should be fired and everyone currently on the roster blacklisted forever. Problem is, then what do you do? The reason SS are all fascist Trump supporters is they're all cops. So if you hire a bunch of new SS they're all going to be just as treasonous as the ones you just fired.

Not exactly the same skill set, but Trump's feud with the FBI likely had a moderating effect on a generally conservative group. The Secret Service does seem to one of the parts of the government that Trump corrupted the most.

[Zonkerbl]

Don't worry, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Yeah I think everyone in the Secret Service should be fired and everyone currently on the roster blacklisted forever. Problem is, then what do you do? The reason SS are all fascist Trump supporters is they're all cops. So if you hire a bunch of new SS they're all going to be just as treasonous as the ones you just fired.

Not exactly the same skill set, but Trump's feud with the FBI likely had a moderating effect on a generally conservative group. The Secret Service does seem to one of the parts of the government that Trump corrupted the most.

yeah that was crazy to watch wasn't it? like dude, political suicide! and yet he somehow got away with it

almost as if he had a lot of powerful allies that shielded him from his own stupidity

[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

"what are you going to do, fire us?"

[montestewart]

Don't worry, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Yeah I think everyone in the Secret Service should be fired and everyone currently on the roster blacklisted forever. Problem is, then what do you do? The reason SS are all fascist Trump supporters is they're all cops. So if you hire a bunch of new SS they're all going to be just as treasonous as the ones you just fired.

Not exactly the same skill set, but Trump's feud with the FBI likely had a moderating effect on a generally conservative group. The Secret Service does seem to one of the parts of the government that Trump corrupted the most.

The key turning point was when Trump got Covid. SS agents are expected to take a bullet for the President, and Trump put that to the test by making them drive him around, maskless with Covid, in a sealed car, as a political stunt. If Obama had done that we would never, ever hear the end of it, but that was a Jim Jones moment there, and they apparently drank the kool aid.

You can’t get rid of all of them, but some high level purges, reassignments, demotions, forced retirements, and surveillance of remaining agents is the typical route. Pit secret service agents against each other, and pit agencies against each other. Biden needs to be as Machiavellian as Trump if he wants to survive, but such calculated ruthlessness seems to be above his pay grade.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

So far very little reporting of actual deaths from the new forced birth laws. Medical science has improved that much maybe. Surprising because in Texas the prohibitions have been in place for much longer, so there should be some evidence to drive the debate there. Well, we'll see I guess. I really want to see the data now. How many less abortions are there now in Texas? How many women have died because they got botched abortions or couldn't get lifesaving care? Arguably, no woman should have to sacrifice her life to please the feelings of a deluded, possibly Satan-worshipping evangelical, but facts don't hurt either.

What we're going to see now is a lot of evil people trying to prosecute women and doctors for having/providing abortions outside of their own state.

Personally I would love for DC to pass a law encouraging people to press lawsuits against gun owners who bring legal guns into DC from VA and MD, so bring it on

I suppose there could be a few things going on:
1) The press isn't interested in investigating forced birth related deaths because people are too squeamish (highly unlikely)
2) All the forced birth related deaths are among the uninsured and so literally no one knows about it because they have no access to a doctor who would then get mad and talk to a reporter about it (likely but see 3)
3) Abortion was already made as difficult as possible in Texas, Ohio, etc. and passing a law about didn't actually change anything much (pretty likely)
4) A corollary to #3, the pro-choice movement anticipated all this years ago and has already built up infrastructure to help everyone who wants an abortion to get one
5) All the forced birth legislation does is increase the risk of insured women when going through ectopic pregnancies, but all of them so far have survived because our doctors are pretty awesome

I just find it hard to believe that Texas' forced birth laws have been in place for almost a year and there have been no dramatic forced-birth deaths to report. Especially the draconian, "behead the hostage on camera" way that they implemented it.

I know it's dangerous to speculate based on zero information but my guess is forced-birth deaths primarily happen among the non-insured and those have actually already been happening for decades in Texas/etc. and no one cares, and the new forced birth legislation only incrementally increases risk among the insured - so far there have been some close calls but no one has actually died yet.

That's comforting, I guess? Forces of evil are no match against well funded, well organized pro choice movement. I guess that's the best of all possible worlds, the evil forced birthers show just how evil they are on the ten year old rape victim issue, but no one actually dies.

But I worry there are uninsured women who had access to planned parenthood before who don't now, and their deaths are just invisible.