Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[mohammed10]

Absolutely agree with you. I probably am rating Williams higher than you are. To me, Williams really seems like a game changer that would go great next to Wall. He hits the outside shot, can get his own shot, and rises when his team needs him most. He really seems to me to have potential all-star talent, and just as importantly, doesn't appear to be a complete head-case.

This.

We need to surround Wall with high IQ players, not head cases. Also, someone said a few replies back that Wall + DWill would make us a lottery team again. Since we weren't rolling into the playoffs next year, I say why not? That and a fistful of cash to spend on a premier FA would be a pretty solid foundation.

[mohammed10]

If seraphin was in this draft, he would be the first overall pick....



of the 2nd round

[closg00]

Chad Ford: A number of other teams have already been to Spain to see same thing. Basically everyone drafting from 3 to 18 with exception of Wizards

Ford on Biyombo. Very interesting that all teams drafting between 3 -18 went to check-out Biyombo except the Wizards.

[Dark Faze]

Very disturbed by signs that Wiz have not much interest in Kanter/Biyombo but have a lens on Vesley and Leonard.

this is going to end terribly.

[Ed Wood]

Very disturbing unless you assume that somewhere between half and all of what is published around draft time is misinformation, whether intentional or simply a product of the fine and well respected process of sports journalism and also that scouting and particularly scouting either one game or a workout means dick all compared to evaluation of the bigger picture of a player's skills and productivity over a much larger sample. I mean you have to rely on workouts more than you'd like for a guy like Kanter but when you consider that he's probably not going to agree to a workout where he'd be matched up against anyone of note anyway I'm not sure what you get out of the process beyond proof he's a real person.

Granted some of that is the result of the limits of my knowledge of player evaluation but workouts rank above but no far above the combine in terms of the quality of the information they provide in my estimation.

[hands11]

6+18+Seraphin for Williams would be fine.

6+Booker would be another decent trade.

Maybe I should move to the trade thread... =p

Panic and group think kicking in.

Keep the picks. Use thing on picks. Move on. Stay the FA

There are lots of good choices in this draft.

Say no to selling out for DW.

[Dat2U]

If seraphin was in this draft, he would be the first overall pick....



of the 2nd round

[Illuminaire]

6+18+Seraphin for Williams would be fine.

6+Booker would be another decent trade.

Maybe I should move to the trade thread... =p

Panic and group think kicking in.

Keep the picks. Use thing on picks. Move on. Stay the FA

There are lots of good choices in this draft.

Say no to selling out for DW.

Trading in Leonard/Vesely/Biyombo + Booker is hardly wasting picks. It's trading up from two marginal talents to one strong one. This is a good thing.

Meanwhile, Darkfaze.... dude. I rode McGee hard this year. I ripped into him (constructively) here, in game chats, to my wife during car rides, wherever. He is deeply flawed in a wide variety of ridiculous ways. But I don't let his idiocy blind me to the fact that he is a remarkably effective basketball player - despite himself.

Just because someone hasn't reached their potential does not mean they suck.

[doclinkin]

Watching Dallas reminds me once again how useful it is to have depth and winners at every position. Dallas runs with Jason Kid, Jason Terry, and JJ Barea all essentially at PG. I personally would have no problem picking up Kemba Walker on draft day on the principle that he'd be a fine mentor and competitor and teammate for John Wall.

In drafting, always consider the keystone player of a Championship team, especially a ballhandling guard. Seems pointless to me to disregard top caliber players just because we may be 'set' at a position. No team that won 20-some games is set at any position. We've got a long way to go before we're even respectable, I'm fine with taking a player you know to be good rather than reach for a cat who is possibly deeply flawed.

[Hoopalotta]

Where someone was picked when they were drafted should only be a consideration when we're trying to fleece other GMs.

The fact is that McGee, for all of his flaws, stubbornness, and immaturity, is still somehow a viable starting center in the NBA. With the slightest of incremental improvements, he will be a top-10 center.

I'm not saying he's not potential trade bait. He is. But he needs to be dangled patiently for the kind of haul a young, athletic top-10 center should bring in.

IM not ready to write McGee off yet, but I'm fine writing off Blatche. McGee definitely deserves another year to see if the "fantasy stat at all costs" mindset (forget guarding the player or the basket, go for the block!) changes. But I definitely agree he should be in trade discussions. If someone else wants to pay a premium to take a risk on him, we should take it.

So yes, give Blatche away for a good bratwurst w/chili, cheese and sour kraut on top, but only give up McGee if the return is high impact.

I swear half the board overrates our young prospects, yet the other half completely underrates our young talent as well.

If I was completely sold on Williams or Kanter as a star quality prospect then I'd be fine with consolidating our talent to get them. But I don't so I wouldn't be comfortable trading McGee to do so. I view Williams & Kanter as solid but flawed prospects and mortgaging the future to get either one doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

I'm not against trading McGee but we should move carefully. He clearly represents our best asset outside of Wall. An athletic freak with tons of upside yet even as steep as his learning curve is, he's still relatively productive and he's a legit C. If I deal him, I want a game changer back, not just a guy who I think will be solid.

The one issue there is that, if we were to trade McGee or even just entertain that idea, we should do it during the draft because of his contract status. I've seen a few people mention that he's a free agent after "a few more years", but he's actually a restricted free agent directly after this next year.

We're also at a disadvantage in that the period where you're traditionally able to negotiate rookie deal extensions might well be negated by the lockout. That's potentially an extremely expensive impediment towards keeping the books straight.

Seems that our position should be that "yes, we're comfortable with McGee and the contract he's realistically going to get" or we should look into trading him for the best deal we could get.

With everything I know as an outsider, I'd rather keep him, but there could be considerations behind the scenes in terms of the CBA, his relations with the team (or teammates), his contract demands, what other teams are likely to offer him and so on that could swing that. For example, if I knew that two or three teams were tentatively planning to offer him a max deal, I'd change up my thinking there.

Dangled patiently? We have to pay this guy next year...with him possibly not improving visibly due to a lockout. That same upside could lock us into an 8million dollar deal...and right now we've seen very little reason to believe that things are going to click.

Honestly, if I thought we could lock McGee up for $8 million a year even under a $48-ish million dollar semi-hardcap, I'd ink that instantly with no reservations. Worst case it isn't working out and he's got nice trade value. That's far from a worst case scenario.

More troubling is something starting at $11 million under a $45-48 million dollar hardcap with annual raises that was offered by a desperate David Khan.

[RickRoll_inDC]

Here's where I'm at:
1. Trade up and get DW OR
2. Draft Kemba

I watched Kemba all year and especially in the tournament. To me, he could be a Jason Terry type. In this weak draft, one of the best 6th men in the league would be a fantastic pick imo at #6.

This may be just because I just saw Jason Terry beat the Heat in the 4th quarter tonight, but I do really like Kemba. (Also, he helped me win my NCAA tourney bracket pool at work. But that's beside the point.)

[Hoopalotta]

6+18+Seraphin for Williams would be fine.

6+Booker would be another decent trade.

Maybe I should move to the trade thread... =p

Panic and group think kicking in.

Keep the picks. Use thing on picks. Move on. Stay the FA

There are lots of good choices in this draft.

Say no to selling out for DW.

Trading in Leonard/Vesely/Biyombo + Booker is hardly wasting picks. It's trading up from two marginal talents to one strong one. This is a good thing.

If anything, those are absurdly conservative and unrealistic packages to hope to trade up for Williams with; Hands, I don't see how you can see that as selling out. 6, 18 + Seraphin or Booker + 6th is nothing to blink at for the 2nd pick. We're razor fleecing sheers in the outback on roundup day amongst three-legged sheep if we pull either of those off. How important is Booker if we have Williams, anyway? David Khan's not going to be all "Whoa, you mean I'll have a passable 7th or 8th man to compete for minutes with Anthony Randolph who's already here and all I have to do is compromise the highest draft pick this franchise has ever attained? Let me go track down that six pack, but sign me up, Dawg, just sign me up!"

The Wolves problem is that they already have too many mediocre prospects and not enough top shelf talent. Truth is, that's about where we're at too. There's about zero-point-zero percent chance of us accruing the 1st, 17th, 23rd & 27th picks in the 2010 draft, adding the 6th, 18th and 34th in the 2011 draft and then two picks in 2012 with all of those players fitting into the rotation long term and building towards 55 wins for us. That would require drafting of a divine bent and there's just about no precedent for that having ever happened.

[JonathanJoseph]

I feel like I must be taking crazy pills reading though this thread.

Are talking about the same Javale McGee here, the 23 year old 7-footer who averaged 10/8/2.4 blks in 28 minutes with a 17.4 PER and Coach K took overseas with Team USA?

(reference: Tyson Chandler's 3rd year in the NBA: 6/7/1.2 42% FG, 14.2 PER)

Is the draft kool aid that strong? I doubt that any NBA team outside of Orlando would not draft Javale McGee #1 in this weak at the top draft. Kyrie Irving wouldn't have even been the first PG taken any other year and Derrick Williams upside isn't as high as McGee's.

I think Derrick Williams will be pretty darn good, but I doubt he's getting an invite to play with Team USA anytime soon.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Watching Dallas reminds me once again how useful it is to have depth and winners at every position. Dallas runs with Jason Kid, Jason Terry, and JJ Barea all essentially at PG. I personally would have no problem picking up Kemba Walker on draft day on the principle that he'd be a fine mentor and competitor and teammate for John Wall.

In drafting, always consider the keystone player of a Championship team, especially a ballhandling guard. Seems pointless to me to disregard top caliber players just because we may be 'set' at a position. No team that won 20-some games is set at any position. We've got a long way to go before we're even respectable, I'm fine with taking a player you know to be good rather than reach for a cat who is possibly deeply flawed.

doc, I'm not even afraid of the Wizards drafting Jimmer. He's better than Bibby. He's better than Barea. Honestly, I think Jimmer would be a fine competitor for Wall and Crawford.

I don't think Jimmer's that much worst than Walker.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I feel like I must be taking crazy pills reading though this thread.

Are talking about the same Javale McGee here, the 23 year old 7-footer who averaged 10/8/2.4 blks in 28 minutes with a 17.4 PER and Coach K took overseas with Team USA?

(reference: Tyson Chandler's 3rd year in the NBA: 6/7/1.2 42% FG, 14.2 PER)

Is the draft kool aid that strong? I doubt that any NBA team outside of Orlando would not draft Javale McGee #1 in this weak at the top draft. Kyrie Irving wouldn't have even been the first PG taken any other year and Derrick Williams upside isn't as high as McGee's.

I think Derrick Williams will be pretty darn good, but I doubt he's getting an invite to play with Team USA anytime soon.

JJ, I think the Wizards improve tremendously the instant they get another coach who will play Booker or Seraphin with McGee. The defense would tremendously improve. McGee is way better than folks on this site generally give him credit for.

I think the Wizards best move would be to trade down for Faried at PF and trade Blatche for a great three, if possible.

[Hoopalotta]

I guess I'm going Echo-Patrol here, but I really don't see how Derrick Williams is still being called a tweener or being penciled in as a small forward (like, in the trade thread).

The guy is absolutely HUGE for a small forward. There is exactly no reason at all to suggest he's anything other than a power forward.

With 10.8% body fat at 248, you'd be looking at a radical trophy-wife type makeover in order to ween him down to small forward dimensions and there's no reason to expect that to work. Suppose he got his body fat down to 7%, he's still about 239 pounds. So, you're really saying he's got to get to 5-6% body fat or lose some 5-8 pounds of muscle.

I think if you told him that the future of the human race depended on him doing so, he could, but once it's realized that he's pretty much a natural 4 and can play there without adjusting things, it's not real likely. And anyway, facing the basket, he's almost surely going to score a lot more efficiently against the larger, slower players no matter what. So, you've then got posting up 3's, but the truth is it doesn't really get featured much because the big's aren't good enough of shooters to space it, the guys with a size advantage aren't quick enough to defend the perimeter on the other end and so forth.

By default, the guy's a squat and powerful bulldog 4 with a faceup game; respectable arms, though not a prototype body in the KG mold as a help defender. There might be question marks as to his effectiveness, but aside from certain matchups, it seems role and position is as close to a known commodity as you'll find in the draft.

[Hoopalotta]

I feel like I must be taking crazy pills reading though this thread.

Are talking about the same Javale McGee here, the 23 year old 7-footer who averaged 10/8/2.4 blks in 28 minutes with a 17.4 PER and Coach K took overseas with Team USA?

(reference: Tyson Chandler's 3rd year in the NBA: 6/7/1.2 42% FG, 14.2 PER)

Is the draft kool aid that strong? I doubt that any NBA team outside of Orlando would not draft Javale McGee #1 in this weak at the top draft. Kyrie Irving wouldn't have even been the first PG taken any other year and Derrick Williams upside isn't as high as McGee's.

I think Derrick Williams will be pretty darn good, but I doubt he's getting an invite to play with Team USA anytime soon.

I agree as a basic stance, but if we're not comfortable with the contract situation, that overrides an awful lot of the rest of it.

If, for example, we can't negotiate an extension and we have a fairly low threshold for what we'd agree to pay McGee as a restricted free agent on the open market, we'll either lose him for nothing or pull one of those Tyrus Thomas trades. I'd point out that when a restricted signs another team's offer sheet, there are no sign and trades possible, so it's less leverage than you'd think if someone's really willing to pay. The owner's proposals are also currently trying to put an end to sign and trades too.

There are definitely backroom issues that could swing things here, though again, I agree it's not sounding like a good idea on talent. A lot of McGee's issues would be mitigated if we had a physical power forward who'd rotate to the boards and clean up behind him.

[JonathanJoseph]

I feel like I must be taking crazy pills reading though this thread.

Are talking about the same Javale McGee here, the 23 year old 7-footer who averaged 10/8/2.4 blks in 28 minutes with a 17.4 PER and Coach K took overseas with Team USA?

(reference: Tyson Chandler's 3rd year in the NBA: 6/7/1.2 42% FG, 14.2 PER)

Is the draft kool aid that strong? I doubt that any NBA team outside of Orlando would not draft Javale McGee #1 in this weak at the top draft. Kyrie Irving wouldn't have even been the first PG taken any other year and Derrick Williams upside isn't as high as McGee's.

I think Derrick Williams will be pretty darn good, but I doubt he's getting an invite to play with Team USA anytime soon.

JJ, I think the Wizards improve tremendously the instant they get another coach who will play Booker or Seraphin with McGee. The defense would tremendously improve. McGee is way better than folks on this site generally give him credit for.

I think the Wizards best move would be to trade down for Faried at PF and trade Blatche for a great three, if possible.

RIght. When you have talented, athletic big men who show flashes of all-star talent, you try to give them different leadership (both coach and veteran infuences), different systems, whatever. But you don't go trading them to move up a few slots in a weak draft because they are developing slower than you'd hope.

With Blatche and McGee, we're still talking about 24 and 23 years old. They are still very young as NBA big men. A prudent GM has at least another year of patience with Blatche and under no circumstances trades McGee before his rookie contract is up. I'm pretty sure Ernie wouldn't seriously consider moving either unless he felt strongly that Williams is a franchise player, not just a good versatile forward.

As for the contract situation, the team has plenty of cap flexibility going forward and so that's not relevant to McGee yet.

[Hoopalotta]

As for the contract situation, the team has plenty of cap flexibility going forward and so that's not relevant to McGee yet.

That's an outright idiotic position. Handing out a bad contract has absolutely zero to do with what your short-term cap situation is. As a rule, it's a bad idea if it's a bad contract.

[tontoz]

I feel like I must be taking crazy pills reading though this thread.

I think you took them before you read the thread. It is flat out nuts to think that McGee would be the top pick in this draft.