ImageImageImageImageImage

Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico

Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#441 » by Ruzious » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Stats aside, you know... no team considers Nick a legit #1 scoring option. Teams know that he doesn't help his team when he's not making shots. He doesn't do anything else consistently. People keep saying he's a very good defender. What matters is if he's a very good team defender, and he's not. We still see him not fighting through screens. There are still consistency issues. All it takes is one team to be stupid, but if Nick gets more than 5/30, I'll be surprised. If he gets an offer in the 5/40 area - Nick, seeyabye.

I agree that that is the general opinion on Young right now. But if he does what he has been doing for an entire season while playing 36 minutes a game, that opinion is going to change. People like "glory stats" and points per game is the biggest glory stat of all. If Young can post 20 points per game with efficiency, people WILL notice. (I'll readily cede that this is a big "if". I'm skeptical that Young can maintain this efficiency as teams try to key on him more and more.)

Oh and the statistical data belies your assertion of Young's team defense. For 3 years, the Wizards have played significantly better defense as a team when Young is on the floor. Two years ago, Young improved the defense by 6.9 points per 100 possessions. Last year, he improved it by 1.6. This year, he improves it by 3.0. This year, with Young on the floor, the team forces opponents to shoot 1.8% worse from the floor, they force 2 more turnovers per 100 possessions, and the Wizards actually rebound better on the defensive glass. On/off data is certainly "noisy", but 3 years is a pretty solid trend which has statistical significance.

Chanelling my inner Warner Wolf - Come awn, Nate. Those defensive stats simply don't tell you much - especially when the team was so poor defensively. Use stats in conjunction with your eyes. For some things, we don't have the stats to make adequate judgments. Maybe he's been better than some of the 2's we've had, but that doesn't make him a good team defender.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
LyricalRico
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 30,567
And1: 854
Joined: May 23, 2002
Location: Back into the fray!
Contact:
       

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#442 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:58 pm

tontoz wrote:
fishercob wrote:
nate33 wrote: I hope EG is working on Young's agent right now.....


Let that mental image simmer for Rico a little bit.



That is just wrong.

:lol:


Gotta love a GM that's willing to do what it takes!

:D
User avatar
Piston Pete
RealGM
Posts: 19,070
And1: 1,352
Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Location: Way out in left field

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#443 » by Piston Pete » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:46 pm

Pistons fan here. Any interest in a trade centering around Prince (huge expiring) for Blatche+filler?
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#444 » by Ruzious » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:03 pm

Piston Pete wrote:Pistons fan here. Any interest in a trade centering around Prince (huge expiring) for Blatche+filler?

No, we're not looking to get rid of Blatche's contract. His contract is not the problem.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,354
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#445 » by verbal8 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:09 pm

Piston Pete wrote:Pistons fan here. Any interest in a trade centering around Prince (huge expiring) for Blatche+filler?

The only possible scenario I could see is if the Wizards could move Hinrich to the Pistons also. Still that would leave the Wizards primary front court players as Prince, Yi, Lewis, McGee and Seraphin.

I think the Pistons would be more likely to be able to deal Prince for a combination of smaller expirings(Yi, Thornton and Howard). By itself it is a bad deal for the Pistons. However it could help them facilitate a Melo trade.
Butter
General Manager
Posts: 8,776
And1: 421
Joined: Aug 14, 2002
Location: Youth movement, here we come
 

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#446 » by Butter » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:13 pm

verbal8 wrote:
Piston Pete wrote:Pistons fan here. Any interest in a trade centering around Prince (huge expiring) for Blatche+filler?

The only possible scenario I could see is if the Wizards could move Hinrich to the Pistons also. Still that would leave the Wizards primary front court players as Prince, Yi, Lewis, McGee and Seraphin.

I think the Pistons would be more likely to be able to deal Prince for a combination of smaller expirings(Yi, Thornton and Howard). By itself it is a bad deal for the Pistons. However it could help them facilitate a Melo trade.


The Blazers could send the Wizards Andre Miller for Hinrich straight up. Hinrich makes a little bit more, but the Blazers Trade Exception covers it according to the ESPN trade checker. If the Wizards were interested in something like that, I'd love to get a back up PF/C off the bench. The Blazers could throw in a 2nd round pick also if there was back up big available.
Rip City, baby!!!!
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#447 » by fishercob » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:14 pm

Bulls fans on the trade board are offerring their '11 pick, the Charlotte pick, and Bogans for Young. If their brass were making that offer, Ernie would be foolish not to accept.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
User avatar
Piston Pete
RealGM
Posts: 19,070
And1: 1,352
Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Location: Way out in left field

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#448 » by Piston Pete » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:43 pm

How about Prince/Wilcox (both expirings) for Hinrich/Blatche

Wall
Young
Prince / Thornton
Lewis / Yi
McGee / Wilcox
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#449 » by fishercob » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:46 pm

Not without a first round pick. Not saying I'd expect the Pistons to give up a lotto pick for Blatche, but straight expirings for the talent gap isn't going to cut it.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,409
And1: 6,812
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#450 » by TGW » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:53 pm

Piston Pete wrote:How about Prince/Wilcox (both expirings) for Hinrich/Blatche

Wall
Young
Prince / Thornton
Lewis / Yi
McGee / Wilcox


No. Get that crap out of here.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
LyricalRico
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 30,567
And1: 854
Joined: May 23, 2002
Location: Back into the fray!
Contact:
       

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#451 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:58 pm

I can see DET being interested in Blatche, but we really don't have a need for Prince now that Lewis is here. Maybe a 3-way? Not sure with who, though.
nuposse04
RealGM
Posts: 11,315
And1: 2,471
Joined: Jul 20, 2004
Location: on a rock
   

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#452 » by nuposse04 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:23 pm

fishercob wrote:Bulls fans on the trade board are offerring their '11 pick, the Charlotte pick, and Bogans for Young. If their brass were making that offer, Ernie would be foolish not to accept.


bogans might be worse than anyone on our team. The chi pick might something in the lower 20s and unless the Charlotte pick is this year I'm not sure I pull the trigger. The more I see out of young, the more I would rather have him be the SG of the future next to wall for quite some time. Ernie would be foolish to accept so hastily IMO
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#453 » by Ruzious » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:34 pm

fishercob wrote:Bulls fans on the trade board are offerring their '11 pick, the Charlotte pick, and Bogans for Young. If their brass were making that offer, Ernie would be foolish not to accept.

1st round picks in 2011 after the lottery may be virtually worthless. If you believe Chad Ford - the top undergrads and Euros will come out, but the guys after the top 10 will likely to stay in school because of lockout worries. Even without that concern, it'd be a bad draft. With that concern, it might be a historically bad draft.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#454 » by Ruzious » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:48 pm

LyricalRico wrote:I can see DET being interested in Blatche, but we really don't have a need for Prince now that Lewis is here. Maybe a 3-way? Not sure with who, though.

What you should try to do is get Detroit's 2012 pick - unprotected. Try to rob them: Blatche and Stretch for Daye (or Jerebko) and Wilcox (filler) and their 2012 1st rounder (ok, top 5 protected to be somewhat realistic. Or if it is top 5, we have the option to switch our pick for their's).
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Hoopalotta
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,937
And1: 3
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#455 » by Hoopalotta » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:51 am

Marc Stein's Twitter (he's hobnobbing front office types right now):

FYI No. 2 from D-League Showcase: Notion that Nick Young available fading quickly. Harder to pry him from Wiz when playing so well post-Gil


http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ

So, there is chatter, but I wonder if it's a hard sell to the fans as much as anything (maybe John Wall too). That said, I hope our reluctance is at least partially a negotiating posiiton.

Ruzious wrote:
fishercob wrote:Bulls fans on the trade board are offerring their '11 pick, the Charlotte pick, and Bogans for Young. If their brass were making that offer, Ernie would be foolish not to accept.

1st round picks in 2011 after the lottery may be virtually worthless. If you believe Chad Ford - the top undergrads and Euros will come out, but the guys after the top 10 will likely to stay in school because of lockout worries. Even without that concern, it'd be a bad draft. With that concern, it might be a historically bad draft.


I bet we could use that future 1st in conjunction with expirings to get Charlotte's lottery pick this year.

This offer is too generous, but just for the sake of discussion:

CHA 2012 1st (Protected)
Yi
Thornton
Armstrong

For

B. Diaw
CHA 2011 1st (probably the 8th or 9th pick)

That alleviates some of the fiscal tomfoolery from the Bogcats ledger books, so it would be very difficult for them to say no given their situation, but we could probably haggle down from there and come up with something else (they have cart loads of other bad contracts)

So I've gotta bite on Fisher's package there, especially given what it would do for us financially by not having to match on Nick. I'd feel a bit bad if Nick signed for real cheap somewhere, but I could get over it and I like the particulars of the risk layout.
Image
Styles
Banned User
Posts: 184
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 17, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#456 » by Styles » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:42 am

Hello, Hornets fan here. Just wondering what is the expect market for Blatche? Looking to dump salary? Prospect? Just wondering what the Wiz FO would be looking for if they wanted to trade him.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,645
And1: 23,137
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#457 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:17 am

Styles wrote:Hello, Hornets fan here. Just wondering what is the expect market for Blatche? Looking to dump salary? Prospect? Just wondering what the Wiz FO would be looking for if they wanted to trade him.

Half a season ago, Blatche was a cornerstone. He has been pretty awful this year, but it's hard for us fans (and probably management too) to so quickly discount his value. Most of us are afraid to trade Blatche for fear that he'll regain his old form and make the trade look bad. So we would ask for a pretty good pick/prospect in return - at least a pick in the top half of the first round plus an expiring contract. And even that might not be enough.

Bottom line: most teams aren't going to be willing to give up what the Wizards are going to ask for Blatche right now. If Blatche continues to suck all the way until the Trade Deadline, then maybe the Wizards will relax their negotiating stance. But my guess is that there's no way Blatche gets traded until either he plays better or until this summer at the soonest.
User avatar
dangermouse
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,628
And1: 814
Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#458 » by dangermouse » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:26 am

tontoz wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
dangermouse wrote:is there any way we could swap Blatche out for another lotto pick?


I think the Suns might be interested in something like that. Blatche+second for Childress+first?. PHX is currently 3 games out of the 8th spot and under .500 overall. Getting a PF could be the jumpstart that they (and more specifically, Steve Nash) need. The West is competitive enough that they could still miss the playoffs, and even if they make it the pick would still be in the mid-teens.



Childress sucks. I would rather have Blatche (or thornton for that matter) than Childress. Taking on that contract for a scrub would be a bad move.


Childress isnt the gem in this trade, its their first rounder. They are a team in the 'on the outisde looking in' category that I didnt think of. There is a very strong chance they dont make the playoffs. There is a very strong chance that even with Blatche, they continue to dissapoint, or maybe stink even more. The way Blatche has been playing most of this year, he could be a trojan horse for us. How much better are the Suns sans Chilly and plus Blatche? I would argue that they are no better at all, even though they desperately need a PF, it is unlikely Blatche is the guy that becomes their saviour. Even though from my point of view he isnt the right fit for them, they would be desperate enough to give it a shot if there isnt anything better on the table.

The way Nick is playing, im hesitant to give him up as well, but if we combine the above trade with the Nick to Chicago deal, we would have 3 picks in the upcoming draft plus a future pick that degrades in protection every year (either hold on to it, or it is a very juicy piece of trade bait for a team that wants to blow it up and rebuild down the line).
Image
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
Styles
Banned User
Posts: 184
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 17, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#459 » by Styles » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:43 am

nate33 wrote:
Styles wrote:Hello, Hornets fan here. Just wondering what is the expect market for Blatche? Looking to dump salary? Prospect? Just wondering what the Wiz FO would be looking for if they wanted to trade him.

Half a season ago, Blatche was a cornerstone. He has been pretty awful this year, but it's hard for us fans (and probably management too) to so quickly discount his value. Most of us are afraid to trade Blatche for fear that he'll regain his old form and make the trade look bad. So we would ask for a pretty good pick/prospect in return - at least a pick in the top half of the first round plus an expiring contract. And even that might not be enough.

Bottom line: most teams aren't going to be willing to give up what the Wizards are going to ask for Blatche right now. If Blatche continues to suck all the way until the Trade Deadline, then maybe the Wizards will relax their negotiating stance. But my guess is that there's no way Blatche gets traded until either he plays better or until this summer at the soonest.


Okay thanks for the heads up! I thought maybe with that fight with McGee + the awful play with the 5 year contract the Wiz FO would be looking to ship him which is what I've heard. I was just wondering because I asked my Hornets source what our GM was looking for and he said PF/C depth that gets paid in the mid-level area so my mind went directly to Blatche. But again, thanks for the info and good luck with your season!
User avatar
Piston Pete
RealGM
Posts: 19,070
And1: 1,352
Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Location: Way out in left field

Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#460 » by Piston Pete » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:58 am

Ruzious wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:I can see DET being interested in Blatche, but we really don't have a need for Prince now that Lewis is here. Maybe a 3-way? Not sure with who, though.

What you should try to do is get Detroit's 2012 pick - unprotected. Try to rob them: Blatche and Stretch for Daye (or Jerebko) and Wilcox (filler) and their 2012 1st rounder (ok, top 5 protected to be somewhat realistic. Or if it is top 5, we have the option to switch our pick for their's).


IMO, the only way you can even remotely come close to getting our 1st rounder is to take all out bad contract off our hands for Blatche and expirings.

Return to Washington Wizards