Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[nate33]

My two cents on the rumored McGee trade:

1. McGee + #6 + #18 is way too much for Derrick Williams. Derrick Williams isn't Chris Webber. He's a flawed player who projects to be a poor defender at his natural position. He'll probably be pretty good, but I think he'll have an impact much like a Carlos Boozer or Chris Bosh. He'll give up nearly as much on defense as he gets on offense, which might get him labeled a "star", but not really a "winner". I wouldn't mind adding a guy like him to this team, but I wouldn't mortgage the farm to make it happen.

2. McGee is better than many on this board give him credit for. He's posting a PER above 17 at age 23, while also having, by far, the best on/off differential on the team. The notion that he has a negative impact defensively due to his tendency to get out of position is simply false. The team was better defensively with McGee on the floor and McGee outplays his counterpart going by PER. I'm not saying that McGee doesn't make defensive mistakes. I'm saying that he's reasonably effective despite his mistakes (which also means that he should get better over time because mental mistakes are correctable).

3. Hoopalotta makes a fair point about McGee's future contract, but the concerns that he might end up overpaid don't sway me. Under the new CBA, salaries in general are going to be smaller and shorter, and the retaining team is going to have a bigger advantage in resigning their own free agents. Also, the way I see things, I don't see teams throwing near max money at the McGee we've seen these past 3 seasons. There is too much uncertainty. Either McGee will improve significantly this coming year and thereby earn a near max offer, or he'll remain inconsistent and scare teams away from offering near max money. If he proves to be worth near max money, I won't mind matching an offer.

[theboomking]

I have a feeling that this is all moot anyway. Whether the board would trade McGee or not is a non-issue. I'd be pretty stunned if Ted and EG traded him.

[tontoz]

My two cents on the rumored McGee trade:

1. McGee + #6 + #18 is way too much for Derrick Williams. Derrick Williams isn't Chris Webber. He's a flawed player who projects to be a poor defender at his natural position. He'll probably be pretty good, but I think he'll have an impact much like a Carlos Boozer or Chris Bosh. He'll give up nearly as much on defense as he gets on offense, which might get him labeled a "star", but not really a "winner". I wouldn't mind adding a guy like him to this team, but I wouldn't mortgage the farm to make it happen.

2. McGee is better than many on this board give him credit for. He's posting a PER above 17 at age 23, while also having, by far, the best on/off differential on the team. The notion that he has a negative impact defensively due to his tendency to get out of position is simply false. The team was better defensively with McGee on the floor and McGee outplays his counterpart going by PER. I'm not saying that McGee doesn't make defensive mistakes. I'm saying that he's reasonably effective despite his mistakes (which also means that he should get better over time because mental mistakes are correctable).

3. Hoopalotta makes a fair point about McGee's future contract, but the concerns that he might end up overpaid don't sway me. Under the new CBA, salaries in general are going to be smaller and shorter, and the retaining team is going to have a bigger advantage in resigning their own free agents. Also, the way I see things, I don't see teams throwing near max money at the McGee we've seen these past 3 seasons. There is too much uncertainty. Either McGee will improve significantly this coming year and thereby earn a near max offer, or he'll remain inconsistent and scare teams away from offering near max money. If he proves to be worth near max money, I won't mind matching an offer.

1) I don't see how Williams projects to be a poor defender at his natural position. By all means please share how you came to this conclusion.

2) McGee's PER ranks him 14th in the league among centers in his 3rd season. That is fine but nothing special, especially considering how weak the center position is league wide. His PER this year is only .4 higher than his rookie season.

McGee's on/off differential is at least partly due to the garbage he had backing him up. Yi, Armstrong and a rookie foul machine that can't speak English would make Zaza look good by comparison even though Zaza sucks.

[Ruzious]

My two cents on the rumored McGee trade:

2. McGee is better than many on this board give him credit for. He's posting a PER above 17 at age 23, while also having, by far, the best on/off differential on the team. The notion that he has a negative impact defensively due to his tendency to get out of position is simply false. The team was better defensively with McGee on the floor and McGee outplays his counterpart going by PER. I'm not saying that McGee doesn't make defensive mistakes. I'm saying that he's reasonably effective despite his mistakes (which also means that he should get better over time because mental mistakes are correctable).

Plech.

So what if the Wiz were better with him on the floor than without him. Look at the backups he had. We're supposed to give him kudos for being better than Seraphin and Hilton Armstrong? Really?

McGee can become a great player - he's got physical ability second only to Superman among centers. But let's not make out that he's a player you can win with now. He's better than he used to be, but he still has as low BBIQ as there is in the NBA. We don't know what's going to happen with him. He could be an all-star, or he could end up worse than KFB. And all it takes is 1 team to offer an outrageous contract - see Etan Thomas and Bucks. Philly pushed up the price of Jamison past reason. LAC pushed up the price of Arenas. Cleveland gave Larry Hughes ridiculous money. NY paid good money for a useless Jeffries. Obviously, trading McGee and the 6th and 18th is too much for DWill, but just as obviously - trading McGee straight up for him would be a good move.

[Hoopalotta]

3. Hoopalotta makes a fair point about McGee's future contract, but the concerns that he might end up overpaid don't sway me. Under the new CBA, salaries in general are going to be smaller and shorter, and the retaining team is going to have a bigger advantage in resigning their own free agents. Also, the way I see things, I don't see teams throwing near max money at the McGee we've seen these past 3 seasons. There is too much uncertainty. Either McGee will improve significantly this coming year and thereby earn a near max offer, or he'll remain inconsistent and scare teams away from offering near max money. If he proves to be worth near max money, I won't mind matching an offer.

I'm only saying that he might get overpaid, but my position is that the front office should and probably does have some sort of an idea about what is likely there. I'm definitely not saying that he is going to get overpaid. With the CBA up in the air, I doubt I could tell you within $20 million of what he's going to get. And even if you had a time machine and told me today what his next contract was, I probably couldn't even tell you if that was a bad contract or not (is $40 million over four years a good deal in 2013? I have no idea).

So, I don't think we should trade him because he might get overpaid, I'm only saying that more info one way or another about his next contract would push the fundamentals in one of two directions. That much I'm sure of.

But this issue is a two-way street as it could go the other way in that we expect that he's in fact not going get big offers and keeping him ends up being an even better idea than it seems now (for example, the current owner's proposals are that other teams would only be able to offer three guaranteed years).

[closg00]

Someone post a thread to put our official picks in, we're in the two-week draft count down now.

[TGW]

My two cents on the rumored McGee trade:

1. McGee + #6 + #18 is way too much for Derrick Williams. Derrick Williams isn't Chris Webber. He's a flawed player who projects to be a poor defender at his natural position. He'll probably be pretty good, but I think he'll have an impact much like a Carlos Boozer or Chris Bosh. He'll give up nearly as much on defense as he gets on offense, which might get him labeled a "star", but not really a "winner". I wouldn't mind adding a guy like him to this team, but I wouldn't mortgage the farm to make it happen.

2. McGee is better than many on this board give him credit for. He's posting a PER above 17 at age 23, while also having, by far, the best on/off differential on the team. The notion that he has a negative impact defensively due to his tendency to get out of position is simply false. The team was better defensively with McGee on the floor and McGee outplays his counterpart going by PER. I'm not saying that McGee doesn't make defensive mistakes. I'm saying that he's reasonably effective despite his mistakes (which also means that he should get better over time because mental mistakes are correctable).

3. Hoopalotta makes a fair point about McGee's future contract, but the concerns that he might end up overpaid don't sway me. Under the new CBA, salaries in general are going to be smaller and shorter, and the retaining team is going to have a bigger advantage in resigning their own free agents. Also, the way I see things, I don't see teams throwing near max money at the McGee we've seen these past 3 seasons. There is too much uncertainty. Either McGee will improve significantly this coming year and thereby earn a near max offer, or he'll remain inconsistent and scare teams away from offering near max money. If he proves to be worth near max money, I won't mind matching an offer.

Thank you Nate.

The talk of giving up McGee, the #6, and #18 for Williams is absurd. It's unfortunate that we always have to prop up flawed players that aren't on the team, while bashing anyone who puts on the red, white, and blue.

Javale is a player worth investing in. He works hard. He has natural talent. The other stuff will come with time and proper coaching.

[closg00]

+1 TGW

[tontoz]

Contenders are built around stars not soft, low IQ role players that roll with different names in the offseason.

[BruceO]

would you guys do the 6th 18th and mcgee for the 2nd and beasley? we draft someone like kanter and have beasley as our small forward where he can score and minnesota has mcgee start for them then draft someone like vesely or kawhi at the SF spot to start alongside K love.
wall Rubio
Nick Wes Johnson
Beasley Vesely
Blatche Love
kanter Mcgee
Oden?


If we lucky out and grab oden we will have two former number one picks and two number two picks on our roster. No need to tank anymore if everyone is healthy

[TGW]

Contenders are built around stars not soft, low IQ role players that roll with different names in the offseason.

And yet your have a Nick Young avi...go figure.

[sfam]

My two cents on the rumored McGee trade:

2. McGee is better than many on this board give him credit for. He's posting a PER above 17 at age 23, while also having, by far, the best on/off differential on the team. The notion that he has a negative impact defensively due to his tendency to get out of position is simply false. The team was better defensively with McGee on the floor and McGee outplays his counterpart going by PER. I'm not saying that McGee doesn't make defensive mistakes. I'm saying that he's reasonably effective despite his mistakes (which also means that he should get better over time because mental mistakes are correctable).

Plech.

So what if the Wiz were better with him on the floor than without him. Look at the backups he had. We're supposed to give him kudos for being better than Seraphin and Hilton Armstrong? Really?

McGee can become a great player - he's got physical ability second only to Superman among centers. But let's not make out that he's a player you can win with now. He's better than he used to be, but he still has as low BBIQ as there is in the NBA. We don't know what's going to happen with him. He could be an all-star, or he could end up worse than KFB. And all it takes is 1 team to offer an outrageous contract - see Etan Thomas and Bucks. Philly pushed up the price of Jamison past reason. LAC pushed up the price of Arenas. Cleveland gave Larry Hughes ridiculous money. NY paid good money for a useless Jeffries. Obviously, trading McGee and the 6th and 18th is too much for DWill, but just as obviously - trading McGee straight up for him would be a good move.

+1 This.

I might even be grudgingly talked in the 18th pick and McGee for Williams, but probably not. Again, potential greatness for me is lots more exciting when the player has their mental game in order. Three chances are high that McGee never reaches his potential, higher than that he does.

[tontoz]

Contenders are built around stars not soft, low IQ role players that roll with different names in the offseason.

And yet your have a Nick Young avi...go figure.

Do you really think i wouldn't trade Nick to get DWill?

[TGW]

Contenders are built around stars not soft, low IQ role players that roll with different names in the offseason.

And yet your have a Nick Young avi...go figure.

Do you really think i wouldn't trade Nick to get DWill?

Is anyone but maybe a couple of folks saying they wouldn't trade McGee for DWill? I think most of us would. The issue is whether we'd trade the #6, #18, and McGee for DWill...and that would be just dumb IMO.

[tontoz]

Is anyone but maybe a couple of folks saying they wouldn't trade McGee for DWill? I think most of us would. The issue is whether we'd trade the #6, #18, and McGee for DWill...and that would be just dumb IMO.

No it wouldn't. Mcgee is nothing but a role player, and a clueless one at that. Most likely the 6 and 18 picks will be role players as well, and that is being optimistic.

1 star > 3 role players

I would trade Nick + 6 + 18 for DWill. DWill has a legit chance to be a star, a legit number one option. I get the impression that we (assuming he gets resigned) will still be waiting for the light to come on with McGee several years from now.

[Zonkerbl]

Watching Dallas reminds me once again how useful it is to have depth and winners at every position. Dallas runs with Jason Kid, Jason Terry, and JJ Barea all essentially at PG. I personally would have no problem picking up Kemba Walker on draft day on the principle that he'd be a fine mentor and competitor and teammate for John Wall.

In drafting, always consider the keystone player of a Championship team, especially a ballhandling guard. Seems pointless to me to disregard top caliber players just because we may be 'set' at a position. No team that won 20-some games is set at any position. We've got a long way to go before we're even respectable, I'm fine with taking a player you know to be good rather than reach for a cat who is possibly deeply flawed.

doc, I'm not even afraid of the Wizards drafting Jimmer. He's better than Bibby. He's better than Barea. Honestly, I think Jimmer would be a fine competitor for Wall and Crawford.

I don't think Jimmer's that much worst than Walker.

Can Jimmer defend? He looked pretty athletic in the combine, iirc.

[TGW]

Is anyone but maybe a couple of folks saying they wouldn't trade McGee for DWill? I think most of us would. The issue is whether we'd trade the #6, #18, and McGee for DWill...and that would be just dumb IMO.

No it wouldn't. Mcgee is nothing but a role player, and a clueless one at that. Most likely the 6 and 18 picks will be role players as well, and that is being optimistic.

1 star > 3 role players

I would trade Nick + 6 + 18 for DWill. DWill has a legit chance to be a star, a legit number one option. I get the impression that we (assuming he gets resigned) will still be waiting for the light to come on with McGee several years from now.

By no means is Derrick Williams a lock to be a star in this league.

DX best case scenario: Michael Beasley W/perfect Intangibles
NBADraft.net comparisons: David West/Michael Beasley

A quick google search brought up other guys he's been compared to: Jamison, Abdur-Rahim, Marvin Williams, Al Harrington. Some mope on Bleaker Report actually compared him to Lebron James but I'm pretty sure he was smoking crack when he wrote that article.

Last time I checked, none of those guys other than LBJ are stars.

[tontoz]

By no means is Derrick Williams a lock to be a star in this league.

DX best case scenario: Michael Beasley W/perfect Intangibles
NBADraft.net comparisons: David West/Michael Beasley

A quick google search brought up other guys he's been compared to: Jamison, Abdur-Rahim, Marvin Williams, Al Harrington. Some mope on Bleaker Report actually compared him to Lebron James but I'm pretty sure he was smoking crack when he wrote that article.

Last time I checked, none of those guys other than LBJ are stars.

If he was a lock to be a star then we wouldn't have a chance to get him. There is risk in any draft pick. Stars are so hard to get that if you don't take a risk to get one you might not get another chance. But role players aren't hard to replace.

A team that lacks stars isn't going anywhere no matter how many decent role players they have.

Did you even look at those comparisons? Beasley still can't shoot and has had character issues from the beginning. West was a nobody when drafted and eventually developed a midrange shot. Those other guys weren't even comparable. Jamison was much weaker and struggled with his shot. Marvin is soft as tissue paper and has no moves at all, anywhere. Harrington is smaller and can't jump. Shareef was soft and unathletic.

The old adage in the NBA is that the team that gets the best player wins the trade. If you can think of examples to the contrary then by all means please share.

[fishercob]

David West was NCAA player of the year.

[LyricalRico]

Checking NBADraft.net, they now have the Cavs taking Kanter #1 overall and Brandon Knight at #4. They have the Wiz taking Tristan Thompton and Tobias Harris (even with Biyombo still on the obard at 18). They don't even have Valanciunas on the board, so I guess you have to take that list with a grain of salt.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft