Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13

[JWizmentality]

My only concern is that the guy touted to be the most NBA ready looks far from it.

[WizKid25]

Hands, I don't understand what you have against Noel or why you think he wouldn't have been a good fit for us.

Same things that have been talked about leading up to and after the draft.

Injury. Weight. No offensive skills.

PHX passed on him for Len for a reason and PHX is well known as an awesome medical team. I will trust that until proven different. Now if they knew about Lens additional ankle problem and still picked him over Noel, then I am really all that much more concerned about what they though of Noel.

Meh, my thing is Noel sustained a fluke injury while making a hustle play. Not sure what the big deal is there. He should recover. And it's not like we need him this year. We could have let him recover until February or whenever and been fine. As for the lack of strength and offensive skill, well those things would take time. But he's a defensive player, not a post scorer. Long term, he would have been a great defensive presence for us. Imagine his rebounding and shot-blocking leading the break, and then Noel actually being able to run with Wall and Beal. That would have been a scary threesome in transition. And I'm not sure why anybody looks at what other teams didn't do to justify why we didn't do it either. That doesn't make sense to me.

[hands11]

My only concern is that the guy touted to be the most NBA ready looks far from it.

A player like CJ Leslie is more likely to look good in these summer league games then Otto.

NBA ready ?

These are not the NBA games he needs to be ready for. This is Summer Ball.

Nor is the offense they will run and it doesn't have a PG even as good as our backups last year.

No one thought Otto had a game like CJM. Otto is a system guy. That is his experience. Georgetown. Princeton. Spacing. Well run plays where everyone is were they are supposed to be. Are you seeing any of that out there ? I'm not. Half the time our PG can't even get into a set.

[popper]

Porter may turn in to an average NBA SF given a year or two to develop. We could sign any number of comparable players for 2-4 million a year. I don't understand using the 3rd pick for such a low ceiling player. It's painful even to watch him try to run and jump.

[hands11]

Hands, I don't understand what you have against Noel or why you think he wouldn't have been a good fit for us.

Same things that have been talked about leading up to and after the draft.

Injury. Weight. No offensive skills.

PHX passed on him for Len for a reason and PHX is well known as an awesome medical team. I will trust that until proven different. Now if they knew about Lens additional ankle problem and still picked him over Noel, then I am really all that much more concerned about what they though of Noel.

Meh, my thing is Noel sustained a fluke injury while making a hustle play. Not sure what the big deal is there. He should recover. And it's not like we need him this year. We could have let him recover until February or whenever and been fine. As for the lack of strength and offensive skill, well those things would take time. But he's a defensive player, not a post scorer. Long term, he would have been a great defensive presence for us. Imagine his rebounding and shot-blocking leading the break, and then Noel actually being able to run with Wall and Beal. That would have been a scary threesome in transition. And I'm not sure why anybody looks at what other teams didn't do to justify why we didn't do it either. That doesn't make sense to me.

Here are some things I think you are missing.

You can MEH, PHX passing on him for Len, but thats a big ass MEH.

2nd, Wall and Beal are very young. Maybe they didn't want another project post player. If they did, they could have drafted Len who actually has some offense. I think the plan is to first, evaluate Nene in the post this year. If Nene recovers his health and some bounce, great. And even if that happens, I think they will look for a more mature piece then a rookie to be the 3rd piece to Wall and Beal as a post player to replace Nene if they can. Nene and Okafor are a solid front court for now. And with cap space and picks, they will have the assets to be players in getting a big piece down there. One that much better then Noel will be over the next 3-4 years.

That isn't Noel, even if he can stay healthy.

They are going to hold onto Nene down there as long as he is producing or until they can find that next legit piece to replace him. Someone like a Favors, or Bosh, etc. Not a Len or a Noel. They need vet experience down there to balance out how young Wall and Beal are.

If all goes well, they will be looking to be Conference title contender not this year, but next.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My reservations about Porter from the get go have been that he didn't really seem to excel at any one thing other than basketball IQ. That's not enough in this league.

I'm not worried that he's going to bust. He's going to be play a long time. I just get an Evan Turner vibe from him. I worry that he won't be an impact player.

Agreed.

[WizKid25]

Same things that have been talked about leading up to and after the draft.

Injury. Weight. No offensive skills.

PHX passed on him for Len for a reason and PHX is well known as an awesome medical team. I will trust that until proven different. Now if they knew about Lens additional ankle problem and still picked him over Noel, then I am really all that much more concerned about what they though of Noel.

Meh, my thing is Noel sustained a fluke injury while making a hustle play. Not sure what the big deal is there. He should recover. And it's not like we need him this year. We could have let him recover until February or whenever and been fine. As for the lack of strength and offensive skill, well those things would take time. But he's a defensive player, not a post scorer. Long term, he would have been a great defensive presence for us. Imagine his rebounding and shot-blocking leading the break, and then Noel actually being able to run with Wall and Beal. That would have been a scary threesome in transition. And I'm not sure why anybody looks at what other teams didn't do to justify why we didn't do it either. That doesn't make sense to me.

Here are some things I think you are missing.

You can MEH, PHX passing on him for Len, but thats a big ass MEH.

2nd, Wall and Beal are very young. Maybe they didn't want another project post player. If they did, they could have drafted Len who actually has some offense. I think the plan is to first, evaluate Nene in the post this year. If Nene recovers his health and some bounce, great. And even if that happens, I think they will look for a more mature piece then a rookie to be the 3rd piece to Wall and Beal as a post player to replace Nene if they can. Nene and Okafor are a solid front court for now. And with cap space and picks, they will have the assets to be players in getting a big piece down there. One that much better then Noel will be over the next 3-4 years.

That isn't Noel, even if he can stay healthy.

They are going to hold onto Nene down there as long as he is producing or until they can find that next legit piece to replace him. Someone like a Favors, or Bosh, etc. Not a Len or a Noel. They need vet experience down there to balance out how young Wall and Beal are.

If all goes well, they will be looking to be Conference title contender not this year, but next.

Do we know why Phoenix passed on Noel? Or are we assuming it because of his knee? Maybe the Suns just had Len rated higher, which is fine. There was talk of Len going first overall. But unless we know for sure that Phoenix passed on Noel for medical reasons then it seems to me you're using one questionable decision to justify another. Here's a recent sampling of the guys Phoenix has passed on in the draft:

2012: Maurice Harkless (took Kendall Marshall)
2011: Kawhi Leonard (took Markieff Morris)
2009: Jrue Holiday/Ty Lawson (took Earl Clark)
2008: Roy Hibbert (took Robin Lopez)
2007: Arron Afflalo (took Rudy Fernandez and traded him for cash)
2006: Rajon Rondo (selected him and traded him for a '07 pick)

I understand the Suns' medical staff is considered top notch because of how they've kept a few aging and injury-riddled players healthy in recent years. But let's not make their draft-night decisions out to be something they're not. They passed on quality players in six of the past seven years. As someone earlier posted, Chad Ford said on Bill Simmons' podcast that each of the top five teams told him Noel's knees weren't an issue. So based on that, it sounds like they made their selection based on talent, or who they felt was best for them. My point is that should have nothing to do with what we do.

[omegatronic3]

I think the Teyshawn Prince comaparisons were pretty good comparison for Otto Porter so far from what i see.
On the plus side he is long and relatively mobile. On the downside not particularly quick from what I see.

I think he's a guy that wont really impact the box score that much. Hes gonna be a glue guy I think. Another similar guy may be Kiralenko. I saw some nice anticipation on the defensive side and and he hustles.
He can hit the open shot but hell never be a lights out shooter. I think hell be a good teammate and will allow us to do a lot of things. I dont think hell be an impact player but will be a team guy.

Also stats in summer league stats are always unreliable but I think hes gonna have to change his shot a bit to get it off in time. I think hes having to rush his shot because hes not used to the pace of the game.

I think Porter was in the right spots. He was aclive on D. He suffered from horrible pg play so he seldom go the ball in the flow of the game. I agree that Im not panicing but I hoped for a bit more with the #3 pick. You expect an impact player.

Rice= Nick Young..he can shoot but isnt reliable..plus he puts up bad shots.

Veseley looked pretty good.

[dandridge 10]

Like everyone else, I was hoping that Porter would play better in the first two games, but I agree that it is way too early to panic. I'm not too worried about his poor shooting or rebounding in the first two games. He demonstrated in college that he can shoot the ball and and even the best shooters have off nights and a couple of games where they can't hit the broad side of a barn. Its only been 2 games. Moreover, with a little more muscle and strength, I think he can be a pretty good rebounder.

The only worry I have is his quickness and foot speed. He did a better job today in staying in front of his man, but he was having a lot of trouble yesterday. He also appears to have problems getting by defenders on offense. With that said, I think everyone knew he wasn't going to be much of a slasher. I think he was drafted to hit the open shot, rebound, run, and play good D. I still think he will develop into a good player with respect to the first three skills, particular with Wall, Beal and Nene as his teammates. My biggest concern is his D right now. If he can't handle the quickness of the NBA game, he is going to be a liability.

The one thing I do know is that if Otto continues to play like this throughout the summer league, the Wizards will be more reluctant to trade Ariza until closer to the trade deadline.

I still believe Otto will be a good player. He just might take a little longer than I originally thought before he actually has an impact.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

More like half a year of NBA games. If he shows something before then, all the better. He was a solid pick. I think he will prove to be that.

But CJM, VO, Zeller, and KO will show more flash sooner. Longer term, the pick they might regret not taking would be Len, maybe Zeller. But man, CJM would look nice as the 3rd guard. That may be a lot using a #3 pick to get, but man if would have bee nice.

But with Webster and Otto, they are set for a while at SF. With PG and SG covered, they have focus on that last big piece up front. It won't be a young player since Wall and Beal are young players. They will have to get an experience player in their prime at that slot.

That's the final piece. And when they add it, they will be instant contenders.

Turns out Zeller would have been a better pick. I think Zeller has a shot at ROY.

[relinquishy]

More like half a year of NBA games. If he shows something before then, all the better. He was a solid pick. I think he will prove to be that.

But CJM, VO, Zeller, and KO will show more flash sooner. Longer term, the pick they might regret not taking would be Len, maybe Zeller. But man, CJM would look nice as the 3rd guard. That may be a lot using a #3 pick to get, but man if would have bee nice.

But with Webster and Otto, they are set for a while at SF. With PG and SG covered, they have focus on that last big piece up front. It won't be a young player since Wall and Beal are young players. They will have to get an experience player in their prime at that slot.

That's the final piece. And when they add it, they will be instant contenders.

Turns out Zeller would have been a better pick. I think Zeller has a shot at ROY.

Since when has a full season been played to reflect back on? Last I checked, only two summer league games have been played.

[Kanyewest]

More like half a year of NBA games. If he shows something before then, all the better. He was a solid pick. I think he will prove to be that.

But CJM, VO, Zeller, and KO will show more flash sooner. Longer term, the pick they might regret not taking would be Len, maybe Zeller. But man, CJM would look nice as the 3rd guard. That may be a lot using a #3 pick to get, but man if would have bee nice.

But with Webster and Otto, they are set for a while at SF. With PG and SG covered, they have focus on that last big piece up front. It won't be a young player since Wall and Beal are young players. They will have to get an experience player in their prime at that slot.

That's the final piece. And when they add it, they will be instant contenders.

Turns out Zeller would have been a better pick. I think Zeller has a shot at ROY.

Zeller struggled a bit in game 1 and rebounded in game 2. Hopefully Porter can do the same. IMO Porter has been getting good looks, he just needs to start knocking those down.

[jivelikenice]

Funny that a lot of the guys who are rushing to judgement on Otto are the same ones who rushed to judgement on JWall. Worst part about it is its been TWO SUMMER LEAGUE GAMES!! I guess lessons aren't learned.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Turns out Zeller would have been a better pick. I think Zeller has a shot at ROY.

Since when has a full season been played to reflect back on? Last I checked, only two summer league games have been played.

You are right. I say that as if I know the future, relinquishy.

Zeller's 21 points and 13 rebounds looked fluid. He's hitting shots from outside and dunking inside. Cody Zeller will start with Al Jefferson and MKG, who many are underrating because of his offense.

I think Zeller at 20 is a whole lot farther along than Otto.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Funny that a lot of the guys who are rushing to judgement on Otto are the same ones who rushed to judgement on JWall. Worst part about it is its been TWO SUMMER LEAGUE GAMES!! I guess lessons aren't learned.

Wall sucked for a number one pick for almost three years. He did something in his third season that I never thought I'd see. Guys like Jrue Holiday and Kyrie Irving made the all star team before he has made it. I didn't rush to judgment on Wall. Wall put on a really good display after MUCH public criticism.

Now, I'd say he's my favorite Wizard. He sounds very mature and realistic about his role and his teammates. I love to see him getting along so well with Beal and feel like I'm glad I was wrong (but I didn't rush to judgment at all on Wall.)

Likewise Otto is clearly lacking physical strength. He's deferring a lot. I expect in time he will be an above average player but if you ask me TODAY Zeller is better. That's all.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I'm not worried at all about Otto. The pace of the Georgetown princeton is very different from what they're doing in SL. He'll figure it out and adjust. I remember having the same thoughts about Beal early last year... oh no maybe I was wrong about him, he's too short, he's not athletic, he's not getting his shot off, he looks slow, too passive, handle doesn't look good, etc etc.

I don't mind him struggling here. It will fuel his motivation to work as much as possible the next 3 months. He's gonna make progress in that time.

[Wizardspride]

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/7/14/45233 ... er-wizards

NBA Summer League: Otto Porter struggles for second straight game

"It's hard to get that comfortability right now, playing different positions, trying to figure it out, trying to execute," Porter said. "It's different. Right now I'm just trying to figure out where can I play, where can I establish myself."

In many ways, the Summer League has been a step up for Porter. He's still learning how to play best in the more wide-open NBA game after starring for two years in Georgetown's Princeton offense. Porter is an instinctual player who functions best when everyone is moving at the same speed and there's open court to get to where he wants to go, but Summer League rosters lack those qualities because the players simply haven't shared the court together often.


"It's totally different from what I'm used to playing. It's like I'm learning all over again," Porter said. "Just the spacing of the court [is different]. You're always spaced out; there's so much pick-and-roll action. I'm just learning where to move to, when to go, when not to go."

The Wizards, however, aren't too concerned with his struggles. They know they are throwing a lot Porter's way and are taking the long view with his development. As he processes this new style, they feel that his unique gifts will soon take over.

[hands11]

My reservations about Porter from the get go have been that he didn't really seem to excel at any one thing other than basketball IQ. That's not enough in this league.

I'm not worried that he's going to bust. He's going to be play a long time. I just get an Evan Turner vibe from him. I worry that he won't be an impact player.

Agreed.

His impact will be his BBIQ, all around game and how he fits will Wall and Beal as a teammate. Having a steady player like that can allow other players to shine with he steadiness.

Evan Turner was supposed to be more big time impact and he was supposed to be main cog and he wasn't.

Otto is a totally different kind of player. Hell, I don't even see Otto as a true 3rd piece to Wall and Beal. I think Nene or his replacement is that player.

It was a weird draft and we got a high pick we should have never had. So they went with a Trevor A replacement. That it. It was a safe pick. Lets give it some time to see how it works out.

[hands11]

Meh, my thing is Noel sustained a fluke injury while making a hustle play. Not sure what the big deal is there. He should recover. And it's not like we need him this year. We could have let him recover until February or whenever and been fine. As for the lack of strength and offensive skill, well those things would take time. But he's a defensive player, not a post scorer. Long term, he would have been a great defensive presence for us. Imagine his rebounding and shot-blocking leading the break, and then Noel actually being able to run with Wall and Beal. That would have been a scary threesome in transition. And I'm not sure why anybody looks at what other teams didn't do to justify why we didn't do it either. That doesn't make sense to me.

Here are some things I think you are missing.

You can MEH, PHX passing on him for Len, but thats a big ass MEH.

2nd, Wall and Beal are very young. Maybe they didn't want another project post player. If they did, they could have drafted Len who actually has some offense. I think the plan is to first, evaluate Nene in the post this year. If Nene recovers his health and some bounce, great. And even if that happens, I think they will look for a more mature piece then a rookie to be the 3rd piece to Wall and Beal as a post player to replace Nene if they can. Nene and Okafor are a solid front court for now. And with cap space and picks, they will have the assets to be players in getting a big piece down there. One that much better then Noel will be over the next 3-4 years.

That isn't Noel, even if he can stay healthy.

They are going to hold onto Nene down there as long as he is producing or until they can find that next legit piece to replace him. Someone like a Favors, or Bosh, etc. Not a Len or a Noel. They need vet experience down there to balance out how young Wall and Beal are.

If all goes well, they will be looking to be Conference title contender not this year, but next.

Do we know why Phoenix passed on Noel? Or are we assuming it because of his knee? Maybe the Suns just had Len rated higher, which is fine. There was talk of Len going first overall. But unless we know for sure that Phoenix passed on Noel for medical reasons then it seems to me you're using one questionable decision to justify another. Here's a recent sampling of the guys Phoenix has passed on in the draft:

2012: Maurice Harkless (took Kendall Marshall)
2011: Kawhi Leonard (took Markieff Morris)
2009: Jrue Holiday/Ty Lawson (took Earl Clark)
2008: Roy Hibbert (took Robin Lopez)
2007: Arron Afflalo (took Rudy Fernandez and traded him for cash)
2006: Rajon Rondo (selected him and traded him for a '07 pick)

I understand the Suns' medical staff is considered top notch because of how they've kept a few aging and injury-riddled players healthy in recent years. But let's not make their draft-night decisions out to be something they're not. They passed on quality players in six of the past seven years. As someone earlier posted, Chad Ford said on Bill Simmons' podcast that each of the top five teams told him Noel's knees weren't an issue. So based on that, it sounds like they made their selection based on talent, or who they felt was best for them. My point is that should have nothing to do with what we do.

I'm sure you can do that kind of .. who missed who .. with any team.

As for the PHX concerns. Have you been keeping up with draft stuff ? Did you even try an internet search before replaying to my post to see if they did have concerns ?

http://fansided.com/2013/06/27/nba-draf ... of-top-10/

NBADraft.net is reporting as apparently, league sources have told them not only have the Suns put up the red flag in regards to Noel’s knees, but it’s possible he may slip out of the top ten.

[WizKid25]

I'm not worried at all about Otto. The pace of the Georgetown princeton is very different from what they're doing in SL. He'll figure it out and adjust. I remember having the same thoughts about Beal early last year... oh no maybe I was wrong about him, he's too short, he's not athletic, he's not getting his shot off, he looks slow, too passive, handle doesn't look good, etc etc.

I don't mind him struggling here. It will fuel his motivation to work as much as possible the next 3 months. He's gonna make progress in that time.

What makes us so sure he'll figure it out? Especially coming from Georgetown. They haven't exactly been a pro factory for perimeter players over the last two decades. Jeff Green is still struggling to figure out his place and he's way more athletic than Porter.