Political Roundtable Part XIII

[DCZards]

Had access to CNN for first time tonight in Japan. After a few weeks what a psychotic mess of programming. Zero news, semi or full hysteria, fully US focused.

Switch over to Japanese morning news. Markets are rising.....specifics on trade and information that aids citizens in making money.

**** the US media. Time to wake up. If you "win" against the opposition, it doesn't help your pocketbook.

Don't forget you live in a capitalist nation.

The US is a diverse nation with diverse interests and goals that go well beyond simply making money.

But if it's pocketbook news you're looking for we have a station for that--CNBC.

[Induveca]

Had access to CNN for first time tonight in Japan. After a few weeks what a psychotic mess of programming. Zero news, semi or full hysteria, fully US focused.

Switch over to Japanese morning news. Markets are rising.....specifics on trade and information that aids citizens in making money.

**** the US media. Time to wake up. If you "win" against the opposition, it doesn't help your pocketbook.

Don't forget you live in a capitalist nation.

The US is a diverse nation with diverse interests and goals that go well beyond simply making money.

But if it's pocketbook news you're looking for we have a station for that--CNBC.

It's time to wake up......the rest of the world doesn't care. They don't give a damn if you're black/white/purple 3 generations are removed from slave ancestry (they're 1-2 at best).

Compete. Stop making excuses. Rest assured SE Asia views the "social justice warriors" in the EU and US as an opportunity. They're fighting for 10% of what they currently earn.

Americans have every opportunity, the only blame/excuse they have is the face staring back in the mirror.

[gtn130]

Had access to CNN for first time tonight in Japan. After a few weeks what a psychotic mess of programming. Zero news, semi or full hysteria, fully US focused.

Switch over to Japanese morning news. Markets are rising.....specifics on trade and information that aids citizens in making money.

**** the US media. Time to wake up. If you "win" against the opposition, it doesn't help your pocketbook.

Don't forget you live in a capitalist nation.

The US is a diverse nation with diverse interests and goals that go well beyond simply making money.

But if it's pocketbook news you're looking for we have a station for that--CNBC.

It's time to wake up......the rest of the world doesn't care. They don't give a damn if you're black/white/purple 3 generations are removed from slave ancestry (they're 1-2 at best).

Compete. Stop making excuses. Rest assured SE Asia views the "social justice warriors" in the EU and US as an opportunity. They're fighting for 10% of what they currently earn.

Americans have every opportunity, the only blame/excuse they have is the face staring back in the mirror.

Are you actually arguing that there isn't any inequality in our society?

[gtn130]

Trump supporters believe jobs for rural white folks were stolen by immigrants and globalists. Trump is here to right this wrong and stand up for the little guy!

Minorities, though. They just need to work harder and stop playing identity politics!

Good stuff.

[dckingsfan]

There's a massive gulf between the numbers of refugees Germany brought in versus the US.

Yep, because our politicians want to get reelected

The larger issue though is this is not the US's problem to solve. Its a worldwide problem. THE solution is to establish an international order that puts pressure on fragile states to improve their governance, and to isolate the countries engaged in massive human rights violations. This isn't a dollar cost issue...,

Sure it is... Peace keeping missions are very expensive - who do you think will end up covering the expenses? If we aren't willing to pony up the money, who will? If we don't send our troops who will?

...its one of whether we are still in the lead in establishing and supporting the existing world order.

And therein lies the problem. We certainly didn't do that over the last 8 years. I suppose that one could argue that we did it during the Bush administration - but how did that turn out? We had 8 years of Clinton and Rwanda came of that. Possibly we shouldn't be the ones taking the lead?

Unfortunately now we have both Putin and Trump looking to dismantle that order. Its really clear why Putin is doing it, but is nonsensical that the US is.

What is truly nonsensical from the Trump plan (or lack thereof) is the notion of increasing defense spending while summarily withdrawing. Why do both - do one or the other. But part of why Trump is doing what he is doing is in response to Bush/Obama. Or I should say, part of why his vitriol resonates.

Like medical expenses, peacebuilding is far cheaper the earlier you do it. Just in setting the table, the US spends approximately 600 billion on the military, 60 billion on aid and development assistance, and just 30 million on peacebuilding (USIP). Peacekeeping missions are usually there once a peace has been established, although this is no longer the case. We now here the BS phrase "robust peacekeeping" which means there is no peace but UN missions are being put in place regardless, but I digress.

The cost of going in Iraq was north of a trillion. Once you have a failed state, the costs internationally are high. The cheapest solution really is developmental assistance and peacebuilding either post conflict or prior to onset of conflict (Phase 0 operations in DoD terms, which surprisingly, they are spending lots more on). That plus a viable international order that places incentives on positive state actor behavior is really the best answer anyone has come up with.

And yeah, Trump's spending on the military while withdrawing is pretty strange. I sort of am waiting for the moment that Trump decides the intel community is a waste of time, and goes for massive cuts there.

So, then you do advocate those peace keeping missions. You know that the UN is basically worthless and so who would that fall on? Yep, us.

This is the problem - those that want a world order and the US to take the lead in that world order are the same that blasted Bush for doing the same. You can say it is more nuanced than that but Obama tried the same in a different way and failed similarly. As did Clinton.

Trump comes along and says he is going to get us out of the mess (which he won't) and he gets himself elected.

Immigration, job loss and an oft failed foreign policy across multiple administrations from both parties has fueled the Trump rise.

sfam - you are advocating more of the same, right?

[DCZards]

Had access to CNN for first time tonight in Japan. After a few weeks what a psychotic mess of programming. Zero news, semi or full hysteria, fully US focused.

Switch over to Japanese morning news. Markets are rising.....specifics on trade and information that aids citizens in making money.

**** the US media. Time to wake up. If you "win" against the opposition, it doesn't help your pocketbook.

Don't forget you live in a capitalist nation.

The US is a diverse nation with diverse interests and goals that go well beyond simply making money.

But if it's pocketbook news you're looking for we have a station for that--CNBC.

It's time to wake up......the rest of the world doesn't care. They don't give a damn if you're black/white/purple 3 generations are removed from slave ancestry (they're 1-2 at best).

Compete. Stop making excuses. Rest assured SE Asia views the "social justice warriors" in the EU and US as an opportunity. They're fighting for 10% of what they currently earn.

Americans have every opportunity, the only blame/excuse they have is the face staring back in the mirror.

Competition? Money? I find that when you use your God-given talents to serve others, money and the other good things people usually desire come to you naturally. The universe has a way of taking care of those who take care of it.

[JWizmentality]

There is some justice in the United States. Good riddance. Rot in prison.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/us/georgia-couple-confederate-flags-threats/index.html

[sfam]

"I say what do all these people do?...."

Watch on YouTube

So he's just not going to fill political appointee positions? This is just bizarre. Basically he wants most of the Federal government to function on poor autopilot mode, which is what you get with no people in place. The ability to implement policies or priorities goes away. A policy priority like dismantling the Administrative state just isn't gonna happen on its own. Cut budgets, sure. Provide no guidance, leave their leadership fallow - they will wait him out. They always do.

[sfam]

Sfam, you neglect to mention the regular assistance of the UAE/Turkey/Qatar/Saudi Arabia/Jordan/Bahrain/Egypt/Iraq in your falsely labeled "War on Islam".

It's a war on Islamic Terror Groups, and all of those Muslim majority countries have assisted with military operations. 6/8 have actively bombed ISIS with their French/US or Russian made fighters. All have provided intelligence.

How can you label such a situation as a "War on Islam"?

All of those nations are most certainly engaged in fighting, countering and preventing violent extremism. This is different from what Trump is doing, and how it comes across. Take a look at non right wing coverage, you'll see how Trump's travel ban has been interpreted around the world. This is what I was referring to. It is a horrific turn of events for the rest of the world to see the US as engaging on a war on Islam. Its even worse for US citizens who happen to be Muslim.

I'll pass on extreme right or left news coverage. They're pushing an agenda, not reality. Regardless I'm reliant mostly on Japanese and HK news who pay little to no attention to Trump. And they're both largely positive when they do, for their own agendas.

The reality is all of those ME countries I mentioned are still bombing ISIS, and other Muslim allies are bombing Boko Haram and Al-Shabaab, and AQAP in Africa and have been doing so for years now. That has zero to do with a 6 week old administration.

Most of those countries *were* on the 90 day temporary ban list. So.....Trump declares an immigration freeze against nations being bombed solo by our Muslim allies, or in combination with US forces and it's suddenly a "War on Islam" but the past 5-6 years of just bombing were just a war on"violent extremism".

You do realize how odd that sounds?

No. I'm clearly missing your point. Trump campaigned on an immigration ban, and had one in place within weeks of taking office. How is this hard to understand that it would come off poorly? He literally included an exception Christians. That those countries have been dealing with problems within their borders is irrelevant to this point.

[sfam]

The US is a diverse nation with diverse interests and goals that go well beyond simply making money.

But if it's pocketbook news you're looking for we have a station for that--CNBC.

It's time to wake up......the rest of the world doesn't care. They don't give a damn if you're black/white/purple 3 generations are removed from slave ancestry (they're 1-2 at best).

Compete. Stop making excuses. Rest assured SE Asia views the "social justice warriors" in the EU and US as an opportunity. They're fighting for 10% of what they currently earn.

Americans have every opportunity, the only blame/excuse they have is the face staring back in the mirror.

Are you actually arguing that there isn't any inequality in our society?

I think he's saying he doesn't care, and perceives the rest of the world doesn't either. Interestingly, Japan's developmental assistance has been rising, as have other nations. So its not actually true if we are gauging it based on providing aid for those in need.

[sfam]

So, then you do advocate those peace keeping missions. You know that the UN is basically worthless and so who would that fall on? Yep, us.

This is the problem - those that want a world order and the US to take the lead in that world order are the same that blasted Bush for doing the same. You can say it is more nuanced than that but Obama tried the same in a different way and failed similarly. As did Clinton.

Trump comes along and says he is going to get us out of the mess (which he won't) and he gets himself elected.

Immigration, job loss and an oft failed foreign policy across multiple administrations from both parties has fueled the Trump rise.

sfam - you are advocating more of the same, right?

For clarity, peacebuilding is "not" peacekeeping. Those are two very separate things. UN Missions do peacekeeping, lots of local advocates and international players do peacebuilding. UN Missions are good if there is an agreement in hand and you need to "keep the peace". This is not what has been happening. Instead we've seen failed states like South Sudan with the UN going in to stop the violence. As poor as the UN training may be, they weren't trained for that. I am certainly not at all advocating that.

We have a different view of failure I suppose. I don't see Obama's actions on the international state as a failure. We can debate each one, but I strongly believe climate change is a worldwide issue that needs worldwide cooperation and attention, same for violent extremism, refugees, poverty and the failed states that create it.

As for job loss, the idea that we got down below 5% unemployment with complete gridlock in Washington is amazing. If we don't have operational governance structures in Washington - we don't - we don't need to look long and far for the cause.

The idea that in as connected a world as we find ourselves attempting to disconnect is a pretty strange turn. I don't see positives coming out of this. Trump certainly came along and provided simplistic answers. We're already hearing that Trump is surprised that health care is complicated. At some point he'll realize the world is actually complicated.

[dckingsfan]

For clarity, peacebuilding is "not" peacekeeping. Those are two very separate things. UN Missions do peacekeeping, lots of local advocates and international players do peacebuilding. UN Missions are good if there is an agreement in hand and you need to "keep the peace". This is not what has been happening. Instead we've seen failed states like South Sudan with the UN going in to stop the violence. As poor as the UN training may be, they weren't trained for that. I am certainly not at all advocating that.

Got that - what I am saying is that the UN is disfunctional and operationally inept. What I am saying is all the good intentions will fall back on the US again.

We have a different view of failure I suppose. I don't see Obama's actions on the international state as a failure. We can debate each one, but I strongly believe climate change is a worldwide issue that needs worldwide cooperation and attention, same for violent extremism, refugees, poverty and the failed states that create it.

I actually wasn't bashing Obama specifically. I was bashing the last 3 adminstrations collective ineptitude with regards to a functional foreign policy strategy. I think we have had and will continue to have very limited affect on either displacement or climate change. As Obama said - it is time to do some country building in our own country.

As for job loss, the idea that we got down below 5% unemployment with complete gridlock in Washington is amazing. If we don't have operational governance structures in Washington - we don't - we don't need to look long and far for the cause.

Unemployment is a red herring as you well know. Look at the labor force participation rates, look at wage growth and look at productivity. BTW, the numbers came back up after gridlock started. They froze the budget and things started humming - go figure.

The idea that in as connected a world as we find ourselves attempting to disconnect is a pretty strange turn. I don't see positives coming out of this. Trump certainly came along and provided simplistic answers. We're already hearing that Trump is surprised that health care is complicated. At some point he'll realize the world is actually complicated.

I am not a Trump fan, I didn't vote for him. I think he is incompetent. But I am beginning to understand better why Trump succeeded. And a good part of that is we have had continued overreach from the past 3 administrations.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[gtn130]

Trump supporters, can you explain why you're all so vehemently opposed to Trump (or anyone) releasing his tax returns?

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[sfam]

For clarity, peacebuilding is "not" peacekeeping. Those are two very separate things. UN Missions do peacekeeping, lots of local advocates and international players do peacebuilding. UN Missions are good if there is an agreement in hand and you need to "keep the peace". This is not what has been happening. Instead we've seen failed states like South Sudan with the UN going in to stop the violence. As poor as the UN training may be, they weren't trained for that. I am certainly not at all advocating that.

Got that - what I am saying is that the UN is disfunctional and operationally inept. What I am saying is all the good intentions will fall back on the US again.

I've gotten to spend some time working with the UN. There's a complication that adds to the ineptness - the whole "member states" voting thing in practice makes the folks who work there have to abide by some truly bizarre conditions. Its dysfunctional by design in many ways, but what else would you expect from an organization who needs agreement from the majority, but allows 5 countries to veto anything?

I am not a Trump fan, I didn't vote for him. I think he is incompetent. But I am beginning to understand better why Trump succeeded. And a good part of that is we have had continued overreach from the past 3 administrations.

Just a point on this. We have an age bulge which is quite different from the MENA region, which has a youth bulge. Our baby boomers are retiring, and taking a good percentage of the workforce with them. This may not be Obama's fault.

[sfam]

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Throwing the military under the bus will backfire. They aren't going to catch the joke.