Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[nate33]

Nope. Before you posted that, I was going to say Langford plus the Memphis pick won't get it done - unless Langford really turns things on to the point that the Celtics wouldn't be willing to trade him. So, that's my view - there's not a good match. The Wiz have enough roster depth that I don't see them being enthusiastic about trading for late 1st rounders.

I assume you meant Langford plus the Milwaukee pick (or the Boston pick) wouldn't get it done. I'd do it for the Memphis pick.

[Ruzious]

Nope. Before you posted that, I was going to say Langford plus the Memphis pick won't get it done - unless Langford really turns things on to the point that the Celtics wouldn't be willing to trade him. So, that's my view - there's not a good match. The Wiz have enough roster depth that I don't see them being enthusiastic about trading for late 1st rounders.

I assume you meant Langford plus the Milwaukee pick (or the Boston pick) wouldn't get it done. I'd do it for the Memphis pick.

Nope, none of them would work for me. the Memphis pick is top 6 protected for 2020, so I don't think it's going to get anything special this season - how likely is it going to be the 7th or 8th pick - as the best case scenario? Next season, I expect Memphis to be a playoff team. The Milwaukee and Boston picks aren't interesting because they'll be late 1sts.

[payitforward]

Interesting. I am personally a big Bryant Fan, reminds me of Marcus Smart with the heart. I love that type of player.

Do you think something like Langford and a pick this year might get a deal done? I dont think there is any way danny trades away the Memphis pick, but Langford plus either Bucks or Bostons pick could be had I think.

The Wizards don't have any use for Langford. First of all, there's some reason to believe he's a bust. And secondly, we have Bradley Beal.

Honestly, I just don't see a workable deal at the moment. It's always hard to trade young players because the team trading him values him with an optimistic projection, and the team receiving him is typically more pessimistic. It's hard to agree on value.

100proof -- a couple of questions for you:

1. Would you be interested in Mo Wagner instead of Bryant? He's showing well, salary is a lot lower, etc. If so, what you give for him instead of Bryant?

2. As a curiosity -- on draft night this year, would you have swapped the #s 20 & 22 picks for our #9 pick? Maybe also giving us a R2 pick in, say, 2021?

edit: on question #2 -- do you think Danny would have made that move?

[nate33]

Nope. Before you posted that, I was going to say Langford plus the Memphis pick won't get it done - unless Langford really turns things on to the point that the Celtics wouldn't be willing to trade him. So, that's my view - there's not a good match. The Wiz have enough roster depth that I don't see them being enthusiastic about trading for late 1st rounders.

I assume you meant Langford plus the Milwaukee pick (or the Boston pick) wouldn't get it done. I'd do it for the Memphis pick.

Nope, none of them would work for me. the Memphis pick is top 6 protected for 2020, so I don't think it's going to get anything special this season - how likely is it going to be the 7th or 8th pick - as the best case scenario? Next season, I expect Memphis to be a playoff team. The Milwaukee and Boston picks aren't interesting because they'll be late 1sts.

Interesting.

I'm not nearly as optimistic about Memphis in the West. Yes, they have a good foundation, but it's really hard to win in the West when you're so young. LA, LA, Denver, Utah, Dallas and Houston will remain better than them next year. There's also Portland and Golden State getting their players back healthy. And I don't see Memphis leapfrogging Dallas or Phoenix in just one more year. Not to mention the always-competitive Spurs and the young and developing Pelicans and Kings.

I think Memphis will still be a late lotto team with the #9 or so pick in 2020, and there's a possibility they'll be top 5 either with an injury or a lucky lotto drawing. I'd take that chance. Also, with Bryant, there's still a very real concern that he may never pan out to be more than an Enes Kanter/Julius Randle type of player. A guy who can definitely put up numbers but without being a difference maker on defense. If you need a guy like that, you can always find one in free agency.

But it's a moot issue. Boston wouldn't give up the Memphis pick for Bryant. And I wouldn't trade Bryant for the Boston and/or Milwaukee picks that are going to fall in the high 20's.

[nate33]

Would you be interested in Mo Wagner instead of Bryant? He's showing well, salary is a lot lower, etc. If so, what you give for him instead of Bryant?

Who do you value more, PIF? Wagner or Bryant?

If you made me choose one or the other right now, I'd choose Wagner. I just think his defensive ceiling is higher, and his stretch 5 ability makes things easier for his teammates.

[payitforward]

I was kind of hoping you'd ask that question, nate. I don't rate Mo Wagner anywhere near as high as I rate Thomas Bryant. But, before, giving the reasons, let me say that a) it's impossible to say conclusively how either of these kids will turn out, & b) it'll be fun to watch it unfold.

I imagine this same question is on the minds of a lot of people on this board. Rather than fill this thread with the discussion of it, I think it'd be worthy of its own thread, which I'll create forthwith!

[100proof]

Nope. Before you posted that, I was going to say Langford plus the Memphis pick won't get it done - unless Langford really turns things on to the point that the Celtics wouldn't be willing to trade him. So, that's my view - there's not a good match. The Wiz have enough roster depth that I don't see them being enthusiastic about trading for late 1st rounders.

I assume you meant Langford plus the Milwaukee pick (or the Boston pick) wouldn't get it done. I'd do it for the Memphis pick.

Nope, none of them would work for me. the Memphis pick is top 6 protected for 2020, so I don't think it's going to get anything special this season - how likely is it going to be the 7th or 8th pick - as the best case scenario? Next season, I expect Memphis to be a playoff team. The Milwaukee and Boston picks aren't interesting because they'll be late 1sts.

So you value bryant more than essentially 2 lotto picks?

Langford is showing awesome in Gleague. He is not a bust. And the memphis pick is unprotected in 2021. So even if it doesnt convey this draft it has high value still.

Bryant doenst even get 30 minutes a game and is losing minutes to wagner.

[100proof]

Interesting. I am personally a big Bryant Fan, reminds me of Marcus Smart with the heart. I love that type of player.

Do you think something like Langford and a pick this year might get a deal done? I dont think there is any way danny trades away the Memphis pick, but Langford plus either Bucks or Bostons pick could be had I think.

The Wizards don't have any use for Langford. First of all, there's some reason to believe he's a bust. And secondly, we have Bradley Beal.

Honestly, I just don't see a workable deal at the moment. It's always hard to trade young players because the team trading him values him with an optimistic projection, and the team receiving him is typically more pessimistic. It's hard to agree on value.

100proof -- a couple of questions for you:

1. Would you be interested in Mo Wagner instead of Bryant? He's showing well, salary is a lot lower, etc. If so, what you give for him instead of Bryant?

2. As a curiosity -- on draft night this year, would you have swapped the #s 20 & 22 picks for our #9 pick? Maybe also giving us a R2 pick in, say, 2021?

edit: on question #2 -- do you think Danny would have made that move?

I am intrigued by wagner. Just bryant is my binkie.
Not aure the offer I would make, was just curious on fans value of bryant. Ki would offer less for wagner than bryant.

I would have made that deal. No question.

Not sure if danny would do it. He loves his 3 wing lineups. I prefer a real power forward as opposed to a sf playing there...so..

[nate33]

And the memphis pick is unprotected in 2021. So even if it doesnt convey this draft it has high value still.

I think Ruzious is assuming that the pick won't convey this year because Memphis will finish in the bottom 6, and it will convey next year but Memphis will make the playoffs so the pick will be #16 or so in the 2021 draft

I personally disagree. I think that pick will pan out to be the #6-9 pick in either this draft or the next.

[Ruzious]

I assume you meant Langford plus the Milwaukee pick (or the Boston pick) wouldn't get it done. I'd do it for the Memphis pick.

Nope, none of them would work for me. the Memphis pick is top 6 protected for 2020, so I don't think it's going to get anything special this season - how likely is it going to be the 7th or 8th pick - as the best case scenario? Next season, I expect Memphis to be a playoff team. The Milwaukee and Boston picks aren't interesting because they'll be late 1sts.

So you value bryant more than essentially 2 lotto picks?

Langford is showing awesome in Gleague. He is not a bust. And the memphis pick is unprotected in 2021. So even if it doesnt convey this draft it has high value still.

Bryant doenst even get 30 minutes a game and is losing minutes to wagner.

Remember I said: "unless Langford really turns things on to the point that the Celtics wouldn't be willing to trade him. So, that's my view - there's not a good match."

In other words, if Lankford shows he's as good as you say he is, Boston's not going to trade him anyway - regardless of what you or I would do. If he doesn't improve then - correct, I'd have no interest in making your trade. 2 ok games in the G League doesn't mean anything. I think Langford has a lot of defensive ability. I need to see a lot more offensively, and I'd need to see he can play another position other than the 2. I was never a big Langford fan and said I would have picked NAW there. If Boston picked NAW there, I'd be much more receptive to trading with Boston now. If Boston had picked Clarke somewhere, I'd be more receptive to trading with Boston now.

[Ruzious]

I assume you meant Langford plus the Milwaukee pick (or the Boston pick) wouldn't get it done. I'd do it for the Memphis pick.

Nope, none of them would work for me. the Memphis pick is top 6 protected for 2020, so I don't think it's going to get anything special this season - how likely is it going to be the 7th or 8th pick - as the best case scenario? Next season, I expect Memphis to be a playoff team. The Milwaukee and Boston picks aren't interesting because they'll be late 1sts.

Interesting.

I'm not nearly as optimistic about Memphis in the West. Yes, they have a good foundation, but it's really hard to win in the West when you're so young. LA, LA, Denver, Utah, Dallas and Houston will remain better than them next year. There's also Portland and Golden State getting their players back healthy. And I don't see Memphis leapfrogging Dallas or Phoenix in just one more year. Not to mention the always-competitive Spurs and the young and developing Pelicans and Kings.

I think Memphis will still be a late lotto team with the #9 or so pick in 2020, and there's a possibility they'll be top 5 either with an injury or a lucky lotto drawing. I'd take that chance. Also, with Bryant, there's still a very real concern that he may never pan out to be more than an Enes Kanter/Julius Randle type of player. A guy who can definitely put up numbers but without being a difference maker on defense. If you need a guy like that, you can always find one in free agency.

But it's a moot issue. Boston wouldn't give up the Memphis pick for Bryant. And I wouldn't trade Bryant for the Boston and/or Milwaukee picks that are going to fall in the high 20's.

I've said before in one of the threads here that Memphis and New Orleans are the 2 exciting teams of the future. Memphis has 2 absolute studs of the future in JJJ and Morant - and Clarke is having an amazing rookie year. I'm also a Jonas V (the Jonas non-brother?) fan - even though he's not off to a great start this season. Next season... they won't be competing for a championship, but they should be clicking to a much greater extent than this season. We'll see.

[payitforward]

...As a curiosity -- on draft night this year, would you have swapped the #s 20 & 22 picks for our #9 pick? Maybe also giving us a R2 pick in, say, 2021? ...do you think Danny would have made that move?

I would have made that deal. No question.

Not sure if danny would do it. He loves his 3 wing lineups. I prefer a real power forward as opposed to a sf playing there...so..

Thanks.

I proposed that deal here repeatedly w/o a huge amount of support. I would have taken Brandon Clarke @#20, then Thybulle @#22 & done the same deal Danny did with Philly. @#24 I'd have taken Keldon Johnson. @#33 I'm less sure who I'd have picked -- hadn't made up my mind. Say Edwards as a place-holder.

Would have been a haul.

[Illmatic12]

Nope, none of them would work for me. the Memphis pick is top 6 protected for 2020, so I don't think it's going to get anything special this season - how likely is it going to be the 7th or 8th pick - as the best case scenario? Next season, I expect Memphis to be a playoff team. The Milwaukee and Boston picks aren't interesting because they'll be late 1sts.

Interesting.

I'm not nearly as optimistic about Memphis in the West. Yes, they have a good foundation, but it's really hard to win in the West when you're so young. LA, LA, Denver, Utah, Dallas and Houston will remain better than them next year. There's also Portland and Golden State getting their players back healthy. And I don't see Memphis leapfrogging Dallas or Phoenix in just one more year. Not to mention the always-competitive Spurs and the young and developing Pelicans and Kings.

I think Memphis will still be a late lotto team with the #9 or so pick in 2020, and there's a possibility they'll be top 5 either with an injury or a lucky lotto drawing. I'd take that chance. Also, with Bryant, there's still a very real concern that he may never pan out to be more than an Enes Kanter/Julius Randle type of player. A guy who can definitely put up numbers but without being a difference maker on defense. If you need a guy like that, you can always find one in free agency.

But it's a moot issue. Boston wouldn't give up the Memphis pick for Bryant. And I wouldn't trade Bryant for the Boston and/or Milwaukee picks that are going to fall in the high 20's.

I've said before in one of the threads here that Memphis and New Orleans are the 2 exciting teams of the future. Memphis has 2 absolute studs of the future in JJJ and Morant - and Clarke is having an amazing rookie year. I'm also a Jonas V (the Jonas non-brother?) fan - even though he's not off to a great start this season. Next season... they won't be competing for a championship, but they should be clicking to a much greater extent than this season. We'll see.

Am I the only one who’s noticed that JJJ has severely regressed, or...??

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksja02.html

This guy was supposed to be the next “unicorn” big man .. yet he rebounds like Davis Bertans and commits personal fouls like Mo Wagner? Below replacement level production 13 games into the season?

Jackson is still insanely young at 20 years old so by no means am I writing the book on his career. But it’s just interesting how public opinion vs reality can differ so much. If he was a Wizards prospect, I’m sure most of you guys would be pulling out advanced stats showing how Jackson’s ‘PPA’ production indicates that he’s the next Al Harrington, blah blah.

Other than Morant’s highlights and the play of Clarke off the bench , nothing about Memphis has impressed me so far .. they had a few lucky wins but are mostly getting the doors blown off of them every night.

NOP at least has an excuse with all their injuries .

[pcbothwel]

...As a curiosity -- on draft night this year, would you have swapped the #s 20 & 22 picks for our #9 pick? Maybe also giving us a R2 pick in, say, 2021? ...do you think Danny would have made that move?

I would have made that deal. No question.

Not sure if danny would do it. He loves his 3 wing lineups. I prefer a real power forward as opposed to a sf playing there...so..

Thanks.

I proposed that deal here repeatedly w/o a huge amount of support. I would have taken Brandon Clarke @#20, then Thybulle @#22 & done the same deal Danny did with Philly. @#24 I'd have taken Keldon Johnson. @#33 I'm less sure who I'd have picked -- hadn't made up my mind. Say Edwards as a place-holder.

Would have been a haul.

Ehhh.. I was big on all 3 guys, but I dont see that as being some great Haul.
Clarke is clearly playing better than Rui at the moment, but Rui younger and is being used in a different role. Rui will have Beal type moments where you simply CANT stop him offensively. That is invaluable when you need a basket. I LOVE Clarke, but he'll never be that guy...

"Low Ceiling" players fall all the time and while some end up like Nance and keep getting better, others flash for a short time and then flatten/regress...
Remember how everyone felt about Jordan Bell, RHJ, Richaun Holmes, Josh Richardson, Gary Harris, Kuzma, and Kyle Anderson their first 2-3 years? Bell went from the steal of the draft to unplayable. Gary Harris and Richardson were deemed as good or better than Beal, now they're fringe starters.

If you have your top 3 scorers and need an ultimate glue guy then Clarke is the better pick, but we need to swing big with Beal right now... So Rui is the right choice

Thybulle is concerning and the flip side to IT. I dont care what he does defensively, he doesnt rebound, score, or create/pass at a G-League level let alone an NBA level.
In the age of shooting and positionless basketball, Thybulle is the exact opposite and is simply a specialist. He'll play a decade in the league and a great 9th man... But a 1st round Pick!?! No way

Keldon Johnson Im a BIG fan of and wish we got. PJ, Keldon, NAW, Goga, Clarke, and Keldon Johnson were some of my favorite prospects outside the lotto....
That said, Still like the Rui pick

[Ruzious]

Interesting.

I'm not nearly as optimistic about Memphis in the West. Yes, they have a good foundation, but it's really hard to win in the West when you're so young. LA, LA, Denver, Utah, Dallas and Houston will remain better than them next year. There's also Portland and Golden State getting their players back healthy. And I don't see Memphis leapfrogging Dallas or Phoenix in just one more year. Not to mention the always-competitive Spurs and the young and developing Pelicans and Kings.

I think Memphis will still be a late lotto team with the #9 or so pick in 2020, and there's a possibility they'll be top 5 either with an injury or a lucky lotto drawing. I'd take that chance. Also, with Bryant, there's still a very real concern that he may never pan out to be more than an Enes Kanter/Julius Randle type of player. A guy who can definitely put up numbers but without being a difference maker on defense. If you need a guy like that, you can always find one in free agency.

But it's a moot issue. Boston wouldn't give up the Memphis pick for Bryant. And I wouldn't trade Bryant for the Boston and/or Milwaukee picks that are going to fall in the high 20's.

I've said before in one of the threads here that Memphis and New Orleans are the 2 exciting teams of the future. Memphis has 2 absolute studs of the future in JJJ and Morant - and Clarke is having an amazing rookie year. I'm also a Jonas V (the Jonas non-brother?) fan - even though he's not off to a great start this season. Next season... they won't be competing for a championship, but they should be clicking to a much greater extent than this season. We'll see.

Am I the only one who’s noticed that JJJ has severely regressed, or...??

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksja02.html

This guy was supposed to be the next “unicorn” big man .. yet he rebounds like Davis Bertans and commits personal fouls like Mo Wagner? Below replacement level production 13 games into the season?

Jackson is still insanely young at 20 years old so by no means am I writing the book on his career. But it’s just interesting how public opinion vs reality can differ so much. If he was a Wizards prospect, I’m sure most of you guys would be pulling out advanced stats showing how Jackson’s ‘PPA’ production indicates that he’s the next Al Harrington, blah blah.

Other than Morant’s highlights and the play of Clarke off the bench , nothing about Memphis has impressed me so far .. they had a few lucky wins but are mostly getting the doors blown off of them every night.

NOP at least has an excuse with all their injuries .

It's a concern, but I give JJJ somewhat of a pass because he started off the season coming back from a knee injury. I still think he'll be a star.

[payitforward]

Am I the only one who’s noticed that JJJ has severely regressed, or...??

Glad you brought it up. I wasn't going to, as I assumed I'd get an argument & it didn't seem worth it.

Not only has he 'severely regressed' but he wasn't good last year either, so he's regressed from bad to awful.

[payitforward]

...I give JJJ somewhat of a pass because he started off the season coming back from a knee injury. I still think he'll be a star.

Hard for me to understand why to tell the truth. You would like to see him do at least one thing extremely well. But there isn't one; not even close.

He does shoot the 3 reasonably well. But... I can't imagine predicting anything great for him off of that.

[Ruzious]

...I give JJJ somewhat of a pass because he started off the season coming back from a knee injury. I still think he'll be a star.

Hard for me to understand why to tell the truth. You would like to see him do at least one thing extremely well. But there isn't one; not even close.

He does shoot the 3 reasonably well. But... I can't imagine predicting anything great for him off of that.

You should watch him play. He has the potential to be as good defensively as any big in the NBA. His ability to mirror offensive players and not let them get by him is as good as it gets, imo. He needs to get stronger to get there, and that should happen with time.

[payitforward]

...I give JJJ somewhat of a pass because he started off the season coming back from a knee injury. I still think he'll be a star.

Hard for me to understand why to tell the truth. You would like to see him do at least one thing extremely well. But there isn't one; not even close.

He does shoot the 3 reasonably well. But... I can't imagine predicting anything great for him off of that.

You should watch him play. He has the potential to be as good defensively as any big in the NBA. His ability to mirror offensive players and not let them get by him is as good as it gets, imo. He needs to get stronger to get there, and that should happen with time.

I have watched him play! He's unbelievably gifted, no doubt about it. & you are right too that at 20 years old he has time to realize that potential. Ceiling above the clouds... But, you know... until you do it you haven't done it & some guys never do.

[payitforward]

...I would have taken Brandon Clarke @#20, then Thybulle @#22 & done the same deal Danny did with Philly. @#24 I'd have taken Keldon Johnson. @#33 I'm less sure who I'd have picked -- hadn't made up my mind. Say Edwards as a place-holder.

Would have been a haul.

Ehhh.. I was big on all 3 guys, but I dont see that as being some great Haul.
Clarke is clearly playing better than Rui at the moment, but Rui younger and is being used in a different role. Rui will have Beal type moments where you simply CANT stop him offensively. That is invaluable when you need a basket. I LOVE Clarke, but he'll never be that guy...

Well... we can't keep having the same conversation about the '19 draft. But, I'd say that a rookie who is scoring 22+ points per 40 minutes at a .672 TS% is already someone "you... CANT stop." & not just in one or another "moment." Add in those 12 boards, & the rest of the stuff, all of which is worlds better than Rui is doing at present, & he's already a "guy" Rui would have to do a whole whole lot to ever become.

"Low Ceiling" players fall all the time and while some end up like Nance and keep getting better, others flash for a short time and then flatten/regress...
Remember how everyone felt about Jordan Bell, RHJ, Richaun Holmes, Josh Richardson, Gary Harris, Kuzma, and Kyle Anderson their first 2-3 years? Bell went from the steal of the draft to unplayable. Gary Harris and Richardson were deemed as good or better than Beal, now they're fringe starters....

If you have your top 3 scorers and need an ultimate glue guy then Clarke is the better pick, but we need to swing big with Beal right now... So Rui is the right choice

Sorry, but no! Not a chance. For one thing, how do you know what Clarke's "ceiling" is? You don't. Not to mention that where he is right now is awesome enough. As to "flatten," no thanks: show me one player who put up rookie stats w/ the dimensions and shape of what Clarke is doing who went on to fail. Don't try; there aren't any.

Bell & Holmes were bargains where they were picked, period. I never liked Kuzma or Richardson (who was never compared to Beal as far as I know!).

All of what you write in this poist is what's called justification rhetoric. When Rui actually does something you claim he is one day gonna do, then you have some evidence to work with. But, of course... he may not do any of that stuff. Right?

...Thybulle ... a 1st round Pick!?! No way

I had no interest in Thybulle, man. I made that clear. It was widely known that Elton Brand was focused on him & him alone. I pick him to make the same trade Danny made -- & wind up with...

Keldon Johnson Im a BIG fan of and wish we got. ....

Edwards, the 3d in my list, was a placeholder, as I said. I'm not sure who I would have taken w/ that #33 pick out of the philly trade. Edwards is a swing for the fences. We didn't know we'd make the LA trade at that point, so maybe it'd have been Bruno Fernando.

...That said, Still like the Rui pick

I've tried a zillion times to distinguish between "a good pick" & "a good player." Without that distinction, a GM fails. Every time.

I like Rui. He has a shot to become an outstanding player. Picking him was a serious mistake. Potentially a good player. But not a good pick.