Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread

[AFM]

YMCA Jordan Poole

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGlltzqP5Mj/?igsh=MTJ3eDI1NHM5ZmJ3cw==

I'd fight my teammate.

Honestly thats more Kuzma than Poole I can just imagine him doing that shi with the shoulders then airballing it

[nate33]

Jordan Poole came up in another thread, and I noted that Jordan Poole's TS% of 59.1% is 4.5% higher than the team's average TS% of 54.6%. I think this is an important metric. The better a player's teammates are, the harder it is for defenses to key in on the team's best offensive player. Being 4.5% more efficient than your teammates is very impressive if you are a high usage player. It means that even though your teammates stink and teams are selling out to guard you, you still manage to score efficiently.

So, out of curiously, I ran a screen of all the guys with a USG% of 27% or higher. There's 37 of them, so we are talking about basically the primary scoring option for each team plus a handful of top tier #2 options. I ranked them by TS% differential relative to their team's TS%.



In this context, Jordan Poole was one of the best high usage scorers in the league. If you gave him better teammates that actually had to be guarded closely, Poole might have posted numbers closer to those of the very best scorers in the league.

It might be time to give Jordan Poole a little more due respect for what was arguably a very impressive season offensively.

[AFM]

Great stuff nate. You have officially taken the RealGM Stats Nerd throne from TSW.

[WallToWall]

Thank you, Nate, for this. My eyes were telling my brain the same as I was watching our games. However, I didn’t know how to figure out using stats, to tell or provide some proof. Thanks for showing me this.
Poole had a really good season. If there were better players around him, his numbers (I’m looking at turnovers and assists) would have been much better. Imagine his numbers if he averaged 1 less turnovers, and 2 more assists. All of a sudden, 2 TO’s/GM and 6.5 assists/gm, to go with his 20.5 pts/gm look pretty darn good.

[dckingsfan]

Jordan Poole came up in another thread, and I noted that Jordan Poole's TS% of 59.1% is 4.5% higher than the team's average TS% of 54.6%. I think this is an important metric. The better a player's teammates are, the harder it is for defenses to key in on the team's best offensive player. Being 4.5% more efficient than your teammates is very impressive if you are a high usage player. It means that even though your teammates stink and teams are selling out to guard you, you still manage to score efficiently.

So, out of curiously, I ran a screen of all the guys with a USG% of 27% or higher. There's 37 of them, so we are talking about basically the primary scoring option for each team plus a handful of top tier #2 options. I ranked them by TS% differential relative to their team's TS%.



In this context, Jordan Poole was one of the best high usage scorers in the league. If you gave him better teammates that actually had to be guarded closely, Poole might have posted numbers closer to those of the very best scorers in the league.

It might be time to give Jordan Poole a little more due respect for what was arguably a very impressive season offensively.

Only one little beef with this glimpse of the elephant... if you know a player is bad at setting up their teammates - you can lay off said teammates, no?

Lay off SGA, Durant, Curry or Jokic and it is an instant bucket. Doesn't mean your metric isn't exceptional - it is... it just further highlights his weakness.

[nate33]

Only one little beef with this glimpse of the elephant... if you know a player is bad at setting up their teammates - you can lay off said teammates, no?

Lay off SGA, Durant, Curry or Jokic and it is an instant bucket. Doesn't mean your metric isn't exceptional - it is... it just further highlights his weakness.

I'm not sure how this contradicts my point.

If you are arguing that Poole is a lousy passer - so bad that defenses don't have to guard his teammates because they know Poole won't pass - doesn't that make Poole's scoring that much more impressive? Teams are blitzing pick-and-rolls with Poole, and packing the lane with impunity with weakside help, yet Poole still posted almost a .600 TS%.

If anything, this suggests Poole should be shooting even more rather than passing.

[DCZards]

Only one little beef with this glimpse of the elephant... if you know a player is bad at setting up their teammates - you can lay off said teammates, no?

Lay off SGA, Durant, Curry or Jokic and it is an instant bucket. Doesn't mean your metric isn't exceptional - it is... it just further highlights his weakness.

I'm not sure how this contradicts my point.

If you are arguing that Poole is a lousy passer - so bad that defenses don't have to guard his teammates because they know Poole won't pass - doesn't that make Poole's scoring that much more impressive? Teams are blitzing pick-and-rolls with Poole, and packing the lane with impunity with weakside help, yet Poole still posted almost a .600 TS%.

If anything, this suggests Poole should be shooting even more rather than passing.

Actually, Poole’s 4.5 assists is somewhat impressive given his role as the Zards primary scorer…and the mediocre shooters and youth he shared the court with most games.

[dckingsfan]

Only one little beef with this glimpse of the elephant... if you know a player is bad at setting up their teammates - you can lay off said teammates, no?

Lay off SGA, Durant, Curry or Jokic and it is an instant bucket. Doesn't mean your metric isn't exceptional - it is... it just further highlights his weakness.

I'm not sure how this contradicts my point.

If you are arguing that Poole is a lousy passer - so bad that defenses don't have to guard his teammates because they know Poole won't pass - doesn't that make Poole's scoring that much more impressive? Teams are blitzing pick-and-rolls with Poole, and packing the lane with impunity with weakside help, yet Poole still posted almost a .600 TS%.

If anything, this suggests Poole should be shooting even more rather than passing.

It didn't contradict your point.

But I don't believe for a second that Poole makes his teammates better at this point and those teammates are pretty bad.

[payitforward]

Only one little beef with this glimpse of the elephant... if you know a player is bad at setting up their teammates - you can lay off said teammates, no?

Lay off SGA, Durant, Curry or Jokic and it is an instant bucket. Doesn't mean your metric isn't exceptional - it is... it just further highlights his weakness.

I'm not sure how this contradicts my point.

If you are arguing that Poole is a lousy passer - so bad that defenses don't have to guard his teammates because they know Poole won't pass - doesn't that make Poole's scoring that much more impressive? Teams are blitzing pick-and-rolls with Poole, and packing the lane with impunity with weakside help, yet Poole still posted almost a .600 TS%.

If anything, this suggests Poole should be shooting even more rather than passing.

In any case, Poole got 35% more assists than an average 2 guard last season; he's pretty good at passing!

[dobrojim]

The ray of hope I keep telling myself is that yes,
we were gawdawful last year compared to typical
NBA teams. But our youthfulness was quite unusual,
especially considering we started 2 19 yo players and
have significant minutes to a number of other young
players. Compared to typical NBA players, you would
expect them to struggle. Stating the obvious, the issue
is where will those 19-20 yo players be at age 23-25.
Under normal circumstances, they will be better, possibly
a lot better.

[dckingsfan]

The ray of hope I keep telling myself is that yes,
we were gawdawful last year compared to typical
NBA teams. But our youthfulness was quite unusual,
especially considering we started 2 19 yo players and
have significant minutes to a number of other young
players. Compared to typical NBA players, you would
expect them to struggle. Stating the obvious, the issue
is where will those 19-20 yo players be at age 23-25.
Under normal circumstances, they will be better, possibly
a lot better.

Answer: they will all be asking for max contracts at the same time.

[nate33]

The ray of hope I keep telling myself is that yes,
we were gawdawful last year compared to typical
NBA teams. But our youthfulness was quite unusual,
especially considering we started 2 19 yo players and
have significant minutes to a number of other young
players. Compared to typical NBA players, you would
expect them to struggle. Stating the obvious, the issue
is where will those 19-20 yo players be at age 23-25.
Under normal circumstances, they will be better, possibly
a lot better.

Answer: they will all be asking for max contracts at the same time.

It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. The fact that we are drafting guys who are so young may mean we resign then to their second contract before they truly break out.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The ray of hope I keep telling myself is that yes,
we were gawdawful last year compared to typical
NBA teams. But our youthfulness was quite unusual,
especially considering we started 2 19 yo players and
have significant minutes to a number of other young
players. Compared to typical NBA players, you would
expect them to struggle. Stating the obvious, the issue
is where will those 19-20 yo players be at age 23-25.
Under normal circumstances, they will be better, possibly
a lot better.

Answer: they will all be asking for max contracts at the same time.

No green font needed for what I think.

They will be better. Mostly on other teams.

[WizarDynasty]

Only one little beef with this glimpse of the elephant... if you know a player is bad at setting up their teammates - you can lay off said teammates, no?

Lay off SGA, Durant, Curry or Jokic and it is an instant bucket. Doesn't mean your metric isn't exceptional - it is... it just further highlights his weakness.

I'm not sure how this contradicts my point.

If you are arguing that Poole is a lousy passer - so bad that defenses don't have to guard his teammates because they know Poole won't pass - doesn't that make Poole's scoring that much more impressive? Teams are blitzing pick-and-rolls with Poole, and packing the lane with impunity with weakside help, yet Poole still posted almost a .600 TS%.

If anything, this suggests Poole should be shooting even more rather than passing.

Sorry Bro Poole will never be an engine. Cant hit volume of 2K at .50 percent or better.
As Poole volume increasea, peecentagea get worse. Big ree flag is 2pt percentage below .50 percent and he has never reached close 2K totals.

[nate33]

Only one little beef with this glimpse of the elephant... if you know a player is bad at setting up their teammates - you can lay off said teammates, no?

Lay off SGA, Durant, Curry or Jokic and it is an instant bucket. Doesn't mean your metric isn't exceptional - it is... it just further highlights his weakness.

I'm not sure how this contradicts my point.

If you are arguing that Poole is a lousy passer - so bad that defenses don't have to guard his teammates because they know Poole won't pass - doesn't that make Poole's scoring that much more impressive? Teams are blitzing pick-and-rolls with Poole, and packing the lane with impunity with weakside help, yet Poole still posted almost a .600 TS%.

If anything, this suggests Poole should be shooting even more rather than passing.

Sorry Bro Poole will never be an engine. Cant hit volume of 2K at .50 percent or better.
As Poole volume increasea, peecentagea get worse. Big ree flag is 2pt percentage below .50 percent and he has never reached close 2K totals.

Spare me. It's no insight to inform me that Poole isn't an "engine" when you define engine as being as good as SGA, Giannis or Luka. Obviously, Poole is no where near as good as SGA, Giannis or Luka. You may as well be informing me that the sky is blue.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Poole certainly was better offensively than his first season here, but feels Kuzma-esque of the empty stat variety, though Kuzma never sniffed a 59% TS. I mean, it was pretty easy for Poole to improve off his first season considering how absurdly bad he was in his first season, I mean the dude was on Shaqtin a Fool every day, and was until a hot streak at the end of season from putting up a historically horrendous season (I think he almost had the worst VORP ever for 3/4 of the season). As for defense, he's horrendous, has been for the last three seasons.

That said, zero pressure for him to perform and I'm not quite buying the narrative that Poole was the focus of other team's defensive game plan. I think teams weren't sweating playing the Wizards and that they weren't masterminding ideas to stop Poole so they could beat the Wizards. I think Poole probably benefited from teams not really getting up for the Wizards.

Also, the TS% delta is kind of deceiving. Bilal, Sarr, Carrington, and George were all pretty bad in that department, all logging heavy minutes. So comparatively, yeah he looks great.

[payitforward]

Jordan Poole came up in another thread, and I noted that Jordan Poole's TS% of 59.1% is 4.5% higher than the team's average TS% of 54.6%. I think this is an important metric. The better a player's teammates are, the harder it is for defenses to key in on the team's best offensive player. Being 4.5% more efficient than your teammates is very impressive if you are a high usage player. It means that even though your teammates stink and teams are selling out to guard you, you still manage to score efficiently.

So, out of curiously, I ran a screen of all the guys with a USG% of 27% or higher. There's 37 of them, so we are talking about basically the primary scoring option for each team plus a handful of top tier #2 options. I ranked them by TS% differential relative to their team's TS%.



In this context, Jordan Poole was one of the best high usage scorers in the league. If you gave him better teammates that actually had to be guarded closely, Poole might have posted numbers closer to those of the very best scorers in the league.

It might be time to give Jordan Poole a little more due respect for what was arguably a very impressive season offensively.

There is absolutely no question about it! If we look exclusively at Jordan's scoring last season, he looks absolutely great.

That said, there is more to look at in his offensive numbers than exclusively his scoring. In his favor, he averaged more assists than an average 2 guard. & slightly more steals.

But, his turnovers were very high, & to a lesser extent his low rate of offensive boards and steals brings his overall offensive effect down some.

These facts temper somewhat his positive effect on team offense. All the same, Jordan had a terrific year overall, & he's still young enough that you can hope for another jump next year.

[Dat2U]

I've been happy with Poole. I think he's been great for the young guys and was unfairly lumped with Kuz who pretty much checked out and chucked up shots. Poole on the other, really toned done alot of the wild shots even though he also made a decent number. He's not a floor general but I thought he manages the game well in stretches, moves the ball and can leverage the attention he gets to ocassionally find others.

I see no rush to trade him unless we get a good asset in return.

Ideally he's the complement or the batman to a legit #1. I think he and Anthony Edwards would be scary together in Minny. Could we get Rob Dilly back & someting else?

Imagine if Phoenix had traded for Poole instead of Beal? Poole alongside Booker & Durant feels alot more dangerous than the odd fit with Beal.